Osama bin Laden DEAD

[PerpetualMotion]

^ Oh well. I'd guess neither of us were at the Twin Towers either, so our comments about that could be seen as moot too.

[spidersandsnakes]

I was talking about My Lai and Vietnam. My point is that My Lai was an isolated CRIME, it was not the policy of the United States (leadership) to command Army infantry or Marines (those under the leadership command) to execute innocent civilians. A very big difference which should be easily determined by most people I would certainly hope.

Your comment is not logical. It was the policy of Osama Bin Laden (leadership) to command terrorists flying hijacked planes (those under the leadership command) to execute innocent civilians.

Hi Brad.....I would like your opinion on the (commanD) that ordered the National Guard to shoot 4 innocent and UNarmed victims at KSU on May 4 1970??? Only asking of course:)!!!

[spidersandsnakes]

I guess it was sort of comparable to the Boston Massacre in some ways. When you agitate people with guns something just might happen.

I still don't understand why some students feel that a college campus even during class session, is supposed to be a place for political demonstations.

But Kent State was a tradgedy. At that time National Guard troops were not trained in crowd control.

Students will always have something to say and if they can't say it normally, they will find ways to say it the best they can!!:). I believe the order to shoot came directly from the Governor...I wonder if the NG would have opened fire if they had known, say, that the Governor's kids were among the protesting crowd????!:)

We have to remember it was the late 60s and many politicians' kids were protesting against the authority of their own dads:)!!!

KSU was a HUGE tragedy....lest we forget:(

Edited May 31, 2011 by spidersandsnakes

[Silver Rider]

Students will always have something to say and if they can't say it normally, they will find ways to say it the best they can!!:). I believe the order to shoot came directly from the Governor...I wonder if the NG would have opened fire if they had known, say, that the Governor's kids were among the protesting crowd????!:)

We have to remember it was the late 60s and many politicians' kids were protesting against the authority of their own dads:)!!!

KSU was a HUGE tragedy....lest we forget:(

In Osama Bin Laden's case, the order to shoot came from a commanding officer. At Kent State,

talkleft.com

Guard!" says a male voice on the recording, which two forensic audio experts enhanced and evaluated at the request of The Plain Dealer. Several seconds pass. Then, "All right, prepare to fire!""Get down!" someone shouts urgently, presumably in the crowd. Finally, "Guard! . . . " followed two seconds later by a long, booming volley of gunshots. The entire spoken sequence lasts 17 seconds.

belowthebeltway.com

The Ohio National Guardsmen who fired on students and antiwar protesters at Kent State University on May 4, 1970 were given an order to prepare to shoot, according to a new analysis of a 40-year-old audio tape of the event.

“Guard!” says a male voice on the recording, which two forensic audio experts enhanced and evaluated at the request of The Plain Dealer. Several seconds pass. Then, “All right, prepare to fire!”

“Get down!” someone shouts urgently, presumably in the crowd. Finally, “Guard! . . . ” followed two seconds later by a long, booming volley of gunshots. The entire spoken sequence lasts 17 seconds.

The previously undetected command could begin to explain the central mystery of the Kent State tragedy – why 28 Guardsmen pivoted in unison atop Blanket Hill, raised their rifles and pistols and fired 67 times, killing four students and wounding nine others in an act that galvanized sentiment against the Vietnam War.

The order indicates that the gunshots were not spontaneous, or in response to sniper fire, as some have suggested over the years.

“I think this is a major development,” said Alan Canfora, one of the wounded, who located a copy of the tape in a library archive in 2007 and has urged that it be professionally reviewed. “There’s been a grave injustice for 40 years because we lacked sufficient evidence to prove what we’ve known all along – that the Ohio National Guard was commanded to kill at Kent State on May 4, 1970.”

“How do you spell bombshell?” said Barry Levine, whose girlfriend Allison Krause was mortally wounded as he tried to pull her behind cover. “That is obviously very significant. The photographic evidence and eyewitness accounts of what took place seemed to suggest everything happened in those last seconds in a coordinated way. This would be the icing on the cake, so to speak.”

alancanfora.com/

Why Kent State? President Nixon had a longstanding grudge against Kent anti-war protesters who had interrupted his campaign speech at the University of Akron (Ohio) in October of 1968 and his inauguration parade on January 20, 1969, in Washington, DC. President Nixon spoke by telephone twice with Ohio Governor James Rhodes during the days just BEFORE the Kent State massacre.

Did Nixon give the OK for his pal Governor Rhodes in Ohio to plan the Kent State massacre? Why would Governor Rhodes encourage his Ohio National Guard to kill students?

Rhodes wanted to crack down on militant Kent students in order to win votes for his May 5, 1970, election which was one day AFTER the May 4 Kent massacre. Rhodes was behind in the polls by 8% only one week before the May 5 Ohio Republican Party primary election. After Rhodes' inflammatory speech in Kent on May 3 and the massacre May 4, Rhodes confused conservative voters but still lost his May 5 election but only by less than 1% of the votes in his US Senate primary election.

The Nixon-Rhodes-National Guard conspiracy failed--Rhodes still lost his election and 5,000,000 American students protested during the national student strike in May 1970 when over 500 campuses closed down.

As for the Ohio National Guard role in the conspiracy, there is a clear, strong connection between Rhodes and his generals at Kent State--Sylvester Del Corso and Robert Canterbury. How these generals and other officers conspired with the hardcore killer triggermen in Troop G remains to be uncovered.

However, it's clear that there was a verbal order to fire and a dozen TROOP G killers stopped, turned, began to shoot and continued to fire 67 times into our crowd of unarmed students. The well-coordinated actions of these triggermen seemed quite planned and executed like a firing squad upon orders to shoot.

Edited June 1, 2011 by Silver Rider

[spidersandsnakes]

However, it's clear that there was a verbal order to fire and a dozen TROOP G killers stopped, turned, began to shoot and continued to fire 67 times into our crowd of unarmed students. The well-coordinated actions of these triggermen seemed quite planned and executed like a firing squad upon orders to shoot.

Only A FEW WORDS: THE AMERICAN NATIONAL GUARD ARE A BUNCH OF MURDEROUS, TERRORIST ASSASSINS. PERIOD.!!!!

Edited June 1, 2011 by spidersandsnakes

[spidersandsnakes]

...and the 4 INNOCENT victims of those LEGALIZED TERRORISTS are & will remain the SYMBOL of the victims of the RIGHT WING BARBARIANS governing at that time!!!

They're the worst type of people Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

They're the worst type of people Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

They're the worst type of people Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

They're the worst type of people Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

They're the worst type of people Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

"They are the worst type of people" ....Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters.

Edited June 1, 2011 by spidersandsnakes

[spidersandsnakes]

http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/index.php?title=Kent_State_Shooting

LIARS AND CRIMINALS:)!!!!

Investigations would later try to answer the question, why did the National Guard open fire? The Adjutant General of the Ohio National Guard told reporters that a sniper had fired on the guards but this claim was proven untrue. The Guard themselves claim that they felt their lives threatened by the protesters yet none of the protesters were close to the Guard. Joseph Lewis the closest verified protester to the Guardsmen and was shot in the abdomen and left lower leg at a distance of about 60 feet. He was shot while standing still and giving a middle finger to the guard. Victims that day and the distance from the Guard line:

[spidersandsnakes]

http://www.famouspic..._State_ShootingKilled

(estimated distance from the National Guard line):

Killed

• Allison Krause (343 feet/105 meters)
• Jeffrey Glen Miller (265 feet/81 meters)
• Sandra Lee Scheuer (390 feet/119 meters)
• William Knox Schroeder (382 feet/116 meters)

Wounded
(estimated distance from the National Guard line)

• Thomas Mark Grace (unverified; between 60 and 200 feet/18 and 61 meters)
• Joseph Lewis (71 feet/22 meters)
• John Cleary (110 feet/34 meters)
• Alan Canfora (225 feet/69 meters)
• Dean Kahler (300 feet/91 meters)
• Douglas Wrentmore (329 feet/100 meters)
• James Dennis Russell (375 feet/114 meters)
• Robert Stamps (495 feet/151 meters)
• Donald MacKenzie (750 feet/229 meters)'

John Filo remembers if the Guardsmen cared about what happened after the shooting had stopped:

No. That was evident in that the squad that came over to examine the body of Jeffrey Miller was armed -- six or seven of them. No one even bent down to get a closer look. The sergeant who did not have a rifle rolled the body of Jeffrey Miller over with his boot. That incensed some people. The soldiers regrouped and backed away from the body and away from the crowd of people ... It could have taken 5 minutes. It is hard to calculate time.

Calls for Revenge

The Guardsmen retreated from the top of the hill to rejoin the other National Guard members at the perimeter of the burnt ROTC building. By this time students had again began milling around the commons and what had happened started to sink in. Before the shootings there was some question on how much of a danger the students posed to Guardsmen but after the shooting there was no question with many calling for an all-out assault on the National Guard. 'It's gone too far'

With the students still not dispersed the Guard again approached and warned the faculty present that the students had to disperse immediately. It was then that the late, geology professor and faculty marshal, Professor Glenn Frank made an emotional plea to the students to break-up and leave the area. The speech was recorded by the news director at the student radio station, Bob Carpenter.

I don't care if you've never listened to anybody before in your life. I am begging you right now, if you don't disperse right now, they're going to move in. It will only be a slaughter. Please, listen to me. Jesus Christ, I don't want to be part of this. Listen to me...

--Professor Glenn Frank The faculty through their pleas were finally able to get the crowd to disperse, Alan Frank the son of Professor Glen was there in the crowd that day, "He absolutely saved my life and hundreds of others," said Frank. Aftermath

University shuts down

While the bodies where being removed from campus and the wounded taken away by ambulance, Kent State University President Robert White was planning to shut down the University. A court injunction from Common Pleas Judge Albert Caris made the closure indefinite. Classes didn't start again until the summer of 1970. Faculty at Kent made heroic efforts to allow students to finish their semester via papers mailed to instructors and classes held off-campus.

Nation wide protests

... when dissent turns to violence it invites tragedy —Nixon Whitehouse

The news of Kent State spread quickly across the nation and this incident is widely regarded as the sole reason behind the only nationwide student strike in history. Hundreds of campuses shut down with over 4 million students protesting.

The next Saturday had protesters assembling in Washington to protest both the Kent State shooting and the Cambodian invasion. As the numbers grew the White House grew afraid of another "Kent" on the Whitehouse grounds. They arranged to have two rings of D.C. transit buses parked bumper-to-bumper. Paranoid government officials saw the gathering through the eyes of cold war soldiers with the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff claiming that the busses were set up, because "this same group that was at Kent" was plotting to get a student killed in front of the Oval Office.

rIGHT WING creep:)!!!

Publicly President Nixon expressed regret at the student deaths, "This should remind us all once again that when dissent turns to violence it invites tragedy." He invited Kent State students to the White House stated that the shootings should never have happened. Yet he had earlier called student protesters "bums" and in the Whitehouse tapes it was revealed that he had asked the Secret Service to beat up student protesters, and felt that the Kent State victims "had it coming".

Many in America shared this "had it coming" attitude and the incident further divided the country. Incidents erupted around the country. Anti-Vietnam supporters demanded that flags be flown at half mast in respect of the slain at Kent and on the other side pro-government supporters demanding that flag's be raised from half-mast.

New Evidence

In 2010, the forty year anniversary of the shooting, new evidence emerged from the post Kent-Shooting investigation. In June of 1970 Attorney General John Mitchell told the public "there was no sniper". A report submitted to Attorney General John Mitchell in June 1970 stated "there was no sniper" who could have fired at the guardsmen before the killings. It was also revealed that six guardsmen told the FBI that their lives were not in danger and that "it was not a shooting situation."

However over time declassified FBI documents show that at least two bullet fragments were found in a tree and ground around the guards. Also, and perhaps the reason the information was suppressed, the FBI had a mole in the student protest movement. Terry Norman, a part-time student at Kent, was working for the FBI and was armed with a gun that the FBI were able to determine had been fired on that day.

Edited June 1, 2011 by spidersandsnakes

[SuperDave]

I suppose we can go back to Bin Laden now.

Wonder how many times President Obama will mention the killing of Bin Laden during his re-election campaign?

[Electrophile]

Not that often, unless it is in the context of a foreign policy debate/conversation. The economy and domestic affairs are the more pressing issue right now, and will be next year as well, not the death of Osama bin Laden.

[TypeO]

...and the 4 INNOCENT victims of those LEGALIZED TERRORISTS are & will remain the SYMBOL of the victims of the RIGHT WING BARBARIANS governing at that time!!!

They're the worst type of people —Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

They're the worst type of people —Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

They're the worst type of people —Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

They're the worst type of people —Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

They're the worst type of people —Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters

"They are the worst type of people" ....Governor James Rhodes on the Vietnam protesters.

This post has been edited by spidersandsnakes: 01 June 2011 - 04:33 AM

Your post looks like that AFTER editing???

[redrum]

..... felt that the Kent State victims "had it coming".

Do you think Janet Reno said the same thing at Waco?

[Walter]

Your post looks like that AFTER editing???

[spidersandsnakes]

Your post looks like that AFTER editing???

If you haven't got any good points other than this silly post to try to discredit my posts, please don't post.....you will NEVER fool me with your dounle Dutch posts!!!!:)

[spidersandsnakes]

WOW, the elites are back again......what FUN :):)!!!!! :hysterical: :hysterical:

[lzzoso]

Only A FEW WORDS: THE AMERICAN NATIONAL GUARD ARE A BUNCH OF MURDEROUS, TERRORIST ASSASSINS. PERIOD.!!!!

Are you starting up with this all over again? Now you are saying that "THE AMERICAN NATIONAL GUARD ARE A BUNCH OF MURDEROUS, TERRORIST ASSASSINS. PERIOD.!!!!"

This, along with what you said awhile ago in your post, #533. And I quote you:

"I would add other names to that terrorist list:

The past Bush administration

The American Gun lobby

Giuliani and his band of Mafiosis

The CIA

The FBI..."

I think that you either need to read more newspapers or go back to a better school then you went to (if you even went to school) and take another history class. If you continue to say such absurd things, the next thing you may say is that the United States of America's Armed Forces are a bunch of "MURDEROUS, TERRORIST ASSASSINS" and that They should be added to your list.

[spidersandsnakes]

Are you starting up with this all over again? Now you are saying that "THE AMERICAN NATIONAL GUARD ARE A BUNCH OF MURDEROUS, TERRORIST ASSASSINS. PERIOD.!!!!"

This, along with what you said awhile ago in your post, #533. And I quote you:

"I would add other names to that terrorist list:

The past Bush administration

The American Gun lobby

Giuliani and his band of Mafiosis

The CIA

The FBI..."

I think that you either need to read more newspapers or go back to a better school then you went to (if you even went to school) and take another history class. If you continue to say such absurd things, the next thing you may say is that the United States of America's Armed Forces are a bunch of "MURDEROUS, TERRORIST ASSASSINS" and that They should be added to your list.

No, HISTORY and ALL THE REPORTS THAT FOLLOWED on the matter SAY ITt:):)!!!!!

[spidersandsnakes]

may say is that the United States of America's Armed Forces are a bunch of "MURDEROUS, TERRORIST ASSASSINS" and that They should be added to your list.

Don't try putting words into my mouth....it won't work with ME:):)!!!!!

[lzzoso]

No, HISTORY and ALL THE REPORTS THAT FOLLOWED on the matter SAY ITt:):)!!!!!

Can I ask you two questions?

1. What country were you born in and what country do now reside in?

2. Where does all your Bush, Giuliani, FBI, CIA, National Guard, etc... hatred come from? Can you please explain why you insist on calling these Americans and/or American Institutions terrorists? What is your reason, logic or rationale for saying that? I am very curious to know why you say such absurd nonsense? Obviously not nonsense to you but complete nonsense to me. Please explain.

[spidersandsnakes]

I think that you either need to read more newspapers or go back to a better school then you went to (if you even went to school) and take another history class

Wooooohooooooooooooo, my knees are shaking :):)!!!!!

[spidersandsnakes]

Can I ask you two questions?

1. What country were you born in and what country do now reside in?

2. Where does all your Bush, Giuliani, FBI, CIA, National Guard, etc... hatred come from? Can you please explain why you insist on calling these Americans and/or American Institutions terrorists? What is your reason, logic or rationale for saying that? I am very curious to know why you say such absurd nonsense? Obviously not nonsense to you but complete nonsense to me. Please explain.

1. This has NO relevance whatsoever to this topic....if you want to know my nationality, look up the other posts in this forum:)!

2. Based on the facts that I have witnessed thru the years ever since the BRUTAL MURDERS of GREAT Americans like Abraham Lincoln, JFK and MLK and since the start of the MOST REVOLTING war in Vietnam.....many of my friends' brothers served in that war and I HAVE DIRECT reports on what really happened in that DIRTY SICK war (e.g. American jounalists paying the opposing factions [North Vietnamese and South Vietnamese factions] to fight in order to take photos and reporting the scoops!!!).

NONSENSE MY ASS:):)!!!!

[spidersandsnakes]

Oh I don't like when America calls other countries "terrorist nations" just because they are Muslim and do not agree with its foreign policies......"people who live in glass houses should not throw stones":):)

[spidersandsnakes]

Having said all that, I LOVE AMERICA AND AMERICAN PEOPLE.....some of my best buddies are from the U.S.A., I work alongside Americans at International House in Europe and we get along VERY well.....perhaps THEY are the TRUE Americans ????!!:):)

[lzzoso]

1. This has NO relevance whatsoever to this topic....if you want to know my nationality, look up the other posts in this forum:)!

2. Based on the facts that I have witnessed thru the years ever since the BRUTAL MURDERS of GREAT Americans like Abraham Lincoln, JFK and MLK and since the start of the MOST REVOLTING war in Vietnam.....many of my friends' brothers served in that war and I HAVE DIRECT reports on what really happened in that DIRTY SICK war (e.g. American jounalists paying the opposing factions [North Vietnamese and South Vietnamese factions] to fight in order to take photos and reporting the scoops!!!).

NONSENSE MY ASS:):)!!!!

My Father enlisted in the Marines and served Two (2) tours of Vietnam. He did His first tour and then asked to do another tour of His own valition. He was there and fought for His Country, the Great United States of America.

Your brothers friends reports are just that, reports. My own Father, who is still alive and 66 years old and retired from South Western Bell Telephone Company, (now AT&T), was there and fought and lived during this "conflict".

By the way, I did not ask you about Lincoln, Kennedy or King.

Did you really witness the "BRUTAL MURDERS of GREAT Americans like Abraham Lincoln, JFK and MLK?".

Abraham Lincoln was assassinated in 1865. Did you really witness that? Were you there at the Ford Theater and see him get murdered? Were you in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963 and see JFK get murdered? Were you in Memphis and actually see MLK get murdered from a snipers bullet?

Yes, I say nonsense because you really do not know what you are saying/typing. You seem to be one of the other dumb and ignorant people who think that you are always right.

By the way, you still never said why you call Bush, Giuliani, the FBI, CIA and the American National Guard Terrorists. Please, if you reply, stick to the comment at hand.

And for the record, I was born in Galveston Island, Texas. I am proud of that fact. You cannot even answer the very simple question of where you were born. That, in itself, says alot about you. Very simple and basic question and you refuse to give a simple and basic answer. Think about that.

[spidersandsnakes]

My Father enlisted in the Marines and served Two (2) tours of Vietnam. He did His first tour and then asked to do another tour of His own valition. He was there and fought for His Country, the Great United States of America.

Your brothers friends reports are just that, reports. My own Father, who is still alive and 66 years old and retired from South Western Bell Telephone Company, (now AT&T), was there and fought and lived during this "conflict".

By the way, I did not ask you about Lincoln, Kennedy or King.

Did you really witness the "BRUTAL MURDERS of GREAT Americans like Abraham Lincoln, JFK and MLK?".

Abraham Lincoln was assassinated in 1865. Did you really witness that? Were you there at the Ford Theater and see him get murdered? Were you in Dallas, Texas on November 22, 1963 and see JFK get murdered? Were you in Memphis and actually see MLK get murdered from a snipers bullet?

Yes, I say nonsense because you really do not know what you are saying/typing. You seem to be one of the other dumb and ignorant people who think that you are always right.

By the way, you still never said why you call Bush, Giuliani, the FBI, CIA and the American National Guard Terrorists. Please, if you reply, stick to the comment at hand.

And for the record, I was born in Galveston Island, Texas. I am proud of that fact. You cannot even answer the very simple question of where you were born. That, in itself, says alot about you. Very simple and basic question and you refuse to give a simple and basic answer. Think about that.

You can't change HISTORY, no matter how hard you try....my NOT directly witnessing the BRUTAL MURDERS of the ones mentioned above (don't you think they were TRUE Americans????!:)) will NEVER change the fact that America changed along with it...in good and bad...but CHANGED nevetheless!!:). The dumb ones here [i REFER TO YOUR NAME CALLING ABOVE....AGAIN:)!!!] are to be found not in my person, but in other posters here:)! If you think I don't know what I'm saying just because you do not agree with my views is YOUR PROB AND YOURS ALONE man :)!!!!