Secret Service Investigating Ted Nugent Comments on Obama

[Dandu]

FWIW, operative phrase - Nugent claims.

The vast majority of things he says are dismissed as bullshit normally.

But if he says something that can be used against him, suddenly it's chiseled in stone, irrefutable truth.

TypeO,

I don't have (or want to have) a position in this discussion, but your comment raises an interesting point. I have read a lot of your posts over the years (I do a lot more lurking than posting) and find you to be quite thoughtful in your approach to things so I thought I would raise this for your consideration.

You probably know that "hearsay" is not admissible in court. That even includes a statement made by somebody about something they themselves did which is overheard by another person (i.e. testimony about that statement cannot be used to prove the truth of its contents). In Canada, one of the exceptions to the hearsay rule is an "admission against interest". When somebody says something which is harmful or embarrassing to themselves, that statement CAN be used to prove the truth of its contents. The theory is that people don't go around saying things about themselves which are harmful or embarrassing unless those things are actually true.

I am not saying what Ted said about the draft was true, but it does beg the question: why he would say something which is so detrimental to the persona he has worked so hard to build, even in jest?

[cryingbluerain]

I say let the SS agents who were partying with the underage prostitutes in Columbia do the investigation.

At least they would have something in common with the Nuge...

I think the Secret Service has bigger problems now than the Nuge..

[TypeO]

That's interesting what you say, tell me why you feel that way.

#1 - Which part? A good forum quoting technique is to quote the particular section you are referring to, as opposed to the entire quote - less misunderstanding.

#2 - You're trying so hard to draw me into a discussion in your specific area of expertise (you said you were a clinical psychologist, I believe) I can practically hear your knives sharpening.

If you've read even a few of my posts, surely you must realize that while you may dislike me or find me annoying, in general you'd be hard-pressed to label me as stupid (objectively, at least).

Yeah, I dropped a superficial Psych 101 reference as a parry to your innuendo.

I make no apologies for actually remembering stuff from college, even if it was a long time ago.

But that's hardly a blanket proclamation that I claim to be an expert in the field.

So - no, thanks, I'll pass on debating you in your specific field.

OAN, your response is textbook - I felt like I was already on the couch.

I literally had an image of Dr. Katz in my mind as I read it.

Well-played, sir. lulz

[dazedcat]

Well this is another doomed thread.

[TypeO]

TypeO,

I don't have (or want to have) a position in this discussion, but your comment raises an interesting point. I have read a lot of your posts over the years (I do a lot more lurking than posting) and find you to be quite thoughtful in your approach to things so I thought I would raise this for your consideration.

You probably know that "hearsay" is not admissible in court. That even includes a statement made by somebody about something they themselves did which is overheard by another person (i.e. testimony about that statement cannot be used to prove the truth of its contents). In Canada, one of the exceptions to the hearsay rule is an "admission against interest". When somebody says something which is harmful or embarrassing to themselves, that statement CAN be used to prove the truth of its contents. The theory is that people don't go around saying things about themselves which are harmful or embarrassing unless those things are actually true.

I am not saying what Ted said about the draft was true, but it does beg the question: why he would say something which is so detrimental to the persona he has worked so hard to build, even in jest?

In general, I think people often misunderstand my responses.

I am often perceived as defending a specific thing when it's really more of a general defense.

In the comment you are referring to (and in this thread, in general), I am not particularly defending what Ted Nugent said or has done in the past as much as I am commenting on the hypocrisy that is making it news.

Cryingbluerain has listed many of the types of things I'm referring to.

Bottom line is, if a liberal says something outrageous, it is generally excused or ignored.

If a conservative says something outrageous, it's headlines and investigations.

In that particular response, my point was what Ted Nugent says is usually dismissed and he is portrayed as batshit looney.

ESPECIALLY when it is something that actually has merit.

And he often makes comments that cut through the bullshit and expose a lot of the liberal/left-wing rhetoric.

Most of all, why are we (as in, the media) so worried about what an aging rock star says?

As Cryingbluerain pointed out, much worse things were said about Bush by rock stars, movie stars, etc., and no Secret Service investigations were initiated.

It's more the overall Obama campaign (of which the media is a willing and eager member) strategy to make race the primary issue of this election.

[mstork]

Because they walk around with tea bags hanging off their hats, nothing ironic about it and not intended to go in the direction you did.

That's not why the Bill Mahers of the world called them "teabaggers", whether it's your intention or not that label is derogatory.

[Walter]

GOPers/Tea PARTY members, does that suit you better???

Derogatory? This the same group that simulates pictures of the President with pictures of Hitler. I hope your/their feelings weren't hurt by me referring to them based on their ridiculous get-ups they wear at their rallies.....

....and how is that considered a homosexual reference, BTW?

[mstork]

GOPers/Tea PARTY members, does that suit you better???

Derogatory? This the same group that simulates pictures of the President with pictures of Hitler. I hope your/their feelings weren't hurt by me referring to them based on their ridiculous get-ups they wear at their rallies.....

....and how is that considered a homosexual reference, BTW?

It's a group of people who believe our government is bloated and inefficient, and our taxes are too high, don't blame them (or me) if certain segments of the media want you to believe that they're all carrying "Obama as Hitler" signs. They most certainly are not. That would be like me saying that everyone who supports OWS is crapping on cop cars and raping people.

If you don't agree with their views on the role of government, fine. No need to paint with a broad brush.

[TypeO]

It's a group of people who believe our government is bloated and inefficient, and our taxes are too high, don't blame them (or me) if certain segments of the media want you to believe that they're all carrying "Obama as Hitler" signs. They most certainly are not. That would be like me saying that everyone who supports OWS is crapping on cop cars and raping people.

If you don't agree with their views on the role of government, fine. No need to paint with a broad brush.

Couldn't have said it better.

Not to mention the fact that I lost count of all the times Bush was compared to Hitler / called a Nazi, Fascist, etc.

[Walter]

It's a group of people who believe our government is bloated and inefficient, and our taxes are too high, don't blame them (or me) if certain segments of the media want you to believe that they're all carrying "Obama as Hitler" signs. They most certainly are not. That would be like me saying that everyone who supports OWS is crapping on cop cars and raping people.

If you don't agree with their views on the role of government, fine. No need to paint with a broad brush.

Boy you are really taking this into another direction aren't you? Bottom line is my original post referred to the segment of the GOP that referrs to themselves as the Tea Party, I referred to them as a polictically humorous name that is commonly used "Tea Baggers" - for them running around acting like the are part of the original Boston Tea Party historical event. Dressing with tea bags on their hats. You said that was ironic. Which it wasn't.

Go bark up another tree, if you want to turn this into something that I didn't create nor want to be a part of on this thread in this forum......

[Walter]

Not to mention the fact that I lost count of all the times Bush was compared to Hitler / called a Nazi, Fascist, etc.

Type O, if it was so disrespectful to refer to Bush as that - then why is it o.k. for anyone to do that to another sitting president? So, if "they" can do it "we" can too logic is behaving like mature adults? Wrong is wrong, no matter who is comparing someone to Hitler.

Plus my point is how can a group be so thin skinned that a comment/nickname about the ridiculous outfits they wear can get under their skin, but calling someone the 2nd coming of Hitler is alright? That's sounds more like the pathetic Dems than the GOP!

[DAS]

This is so childish. Is the government really going to waste tax payer money investigating Ted Nugent? What about all the Hollywood-Libs saying Bush deserves to die telling people to kill Bush? Not in an election sense either. Literally make his life stop. I'm an independent. I hate both parties. I did not vote in the last election and I wasn't planning on voting in this one. But if this turns into a big deal I'll vote for the piece of Romney the Republicans nominated just to spite these cry babies.

[DAS]

And for the record I think we should appoint Uncle Ted supreme overlord of America (and maybe the world) for life.

[mstork]

Type O, if it was so disrespectful to refer to Bush as that - then why is it o.k. for anyone to do that to another sitting president? So, if "they" can do it "we" can too logic is behaving like mature adults? Wrong is wrong, no matter who is comparing someone to Hitler.

Plus my point is how can a group be so thin skinned that a comment/nickname about the ridiculous outfits they wear can get under their skin, but calling someone the 2nd coming of Hitler is alright? That's sounds more like the pathetic Dems than the GOP!

Listen, when people in the US media call them "teabaggers", spearheaded by people like Bill Maher, they are not referring to their costumes. The raised eyebrow that comes with the word "teabagger" is because they're equating it to the slang for putting a certain part of the male anatomy in someone's mouth. I repeat, it's NOT a comment about their costumes. It's only a small percentage of these people who even wear costumes anyway!

The tea party people (who are no fans of G W Bush either, by the way) represent a view of our government and the Constitution that frightens the segment of the US media who lean left (i. e. most of the media!) because it's completely contrary to the big spending, nanny state vision that Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and company have been pursuing. Therefore they try to minimize the message by mocking the messengers as "teabaggers". I wasn't shocked when Maher did it, but I was shocked when supposedly respectable segments of the media picked up on it too.

Anyway, we can all agree that Zeppelin rules!

[Walter]

^ Absolutely we can!

[TypeO]

Type O, if it was so disrespectful to refer to Bush as that - then why is it o.k. for anyone to do that to another sitting president? So, if "they" can do it "we" can too logic is behaving like mature adults? Wrong is wrong, no matter who is comparing someone to Hitler.

I never said it was "so disrespectful".

I'm simply pointing out all the uproar when it's Obama getting compared to Hitler, yet it was constantly done with Bush.

Therein lies the hypocrisy I detest.

The actual act of comparing a president to Hitler?

Distasteful, but still free speech.

Discussion of killing/assassinating/or otherwise harming a President?

Over the line, NOT free speech.

Bush wasn't the greatest President by far, but he has suffered way more disrespect - both as a sitting and as an outgoing President - than any other in history.

Some of the behavior at the inauguration itself was as ugly and disrespectful as I have ever seen to a President.

Not to mention the clips the media played of people like Jay-Z and Young Geezy making incredibly inappropriate remarks about Bush.

There should be no distinguishing of the level of respect due any President.

But in Bush's case, people constantly rationalized any disrespect he was shown with their opinions of his service as President.

And that's bullshit.

It's not "defending" Bush, it's just pointing out the hypocrisy.

[Rock Historian]

Ted's ok really, relatively speaking. Did anyone see that 'House Of Rock' show, with Seb Bach and that fat tattooed asshole freak who used to fuck Tera Patrick? Ted was the sanest one on the show, a real Nice Guy.

If your talking about the same show that featured Scott Ian (Anthrax) and Jason B. on drums, it was called "Supergroup" (At least here in the States it was) Was shown on VH1. Pretty sure it was the same show, describing what you said. Id say Jason was a pretty "normal" dude there too as was Ian. That fat tattooed guy was pretty disgusting. And I always wondered how the hell he got picked for that show.

http://www.nytimes.c...8sann.html?_r=1

[Anjin-san]

Beer Summit! Hear ye,hear ye! You bring the beer and I will hold the summit!

[redrum]

Better Ted Than Red!

:^)

[beetleron]

seemed rather tame

[mstork]

but even more, I wondered how the hell he got to fuck Tera Patrick.

Making good choices is not the hallmark of many girls who wind up pursuing a career in the pornographic arts!

[Jahfin]

[Jahfin]

Secret Service Concludes 'Solid' Meeting With Ted Nugent

[DAS]

Well I don't think much of your Secret Service. They're not very good at keeping things secret, are they? If they were, we'd never have heard about any of this.

I don't know about where you're from but here everything in the government's control is used as a political pawn for their sadistic power grasps. The Secret Service, FBI, CIA, Army, Police force, Fire Departments, Schools. They are trying to make Ted Nugent look like psychotic dangerous sociopath and then they'll say that everyone on the right is just like him and the world will burn and all our children will die in hell fire if we don't vote for the incumbent party. If they were serious they wouldn't be blabbing everything like gossipy old ladies and going after only the people who oppose the party in power.

[DAS]

Lucky Ted's not a Muslim, otherwise he'd probably be hanging upside down by his pee-pee in Guantanamo by now.

This is another thing I think depends on the party in power. The current jerk-bag in office wouldn't let a Muslim be prosecuted like that. He'd cry that it was discriminating. Bush would have fried the sucker for acting like a terrorist but this bum would practically let them get away with murder. If it was a Christian I bet he'd hang them. Depends on who the party in power likes and who they don't.