Anjin-san Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 >Thanks for the history lesson but I am not sure I get your point.< I know. >What is celebrated on July 4th is America's liberation from the British.< No. > Chris Rock's point was that not all of the people who lived there shared in the spoils of liberty. I don't see what is wrong with keeping that fact in mind - even while celebrating the day.< Egad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 And you have the right to call someone a "fucking idiot", but if you don't use that right judiciously, it is often you who ends up wearing the moniker. I am a fucking idiot.We good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 I am a fucking idiot.We good? I don't know about the above but you seem to be quite immature and childish. Anyone who has to resort to base insults is simply lacking a foundation for debate. Thank you for proving our point. I am done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dandu Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 We were never not good, but I don't understand 90% of what you write on this board! Not sure which one of us that is a comment upon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lake of Shadows Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 What is celebrated is the event of what became the USA declaring, and then fighting a war, for its independance from Great Britain. Certainly, not everyone was free. If you want to parse the technicalities, the USA was the home of the brave and the free rich, white, male landowners. African-Americans were almost all slaves, and women... well, slavery was abolished before women, of any color, were allowed to vote. And I won't even get into the issue of Native Americans. Our history is often not very savory... just as the history of a lot of other countires, realms, or whatever, often isn't very savory either. ...just sayin'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Selling the average American short? Hell, I give most way too much credit to be honest as most have NO CLUE to the founding of this nation. Do you know why we celebrate the 4th of July? Purley arbitrary actually. The document was ratified on July 2nd and final wording was completed by July 4th. The signatures of the colonial delgates were not obtained until August 2nd. Also, the original document was lost, we only have copies left. Most Americans have no clue, and they believe we live in a democracy when the United States is a representative republic. Also, there are two primary philosophies of the constitution, Hamiltonian which favors a strong central government with complete power over the states, and Jeffersonian which favors limited federal government and states rights. The nation followed the Hamiltonian route until the 1850's when the Jeffersonian model was in favor. It stayed this way until the T Roosevelt administration when a hybrid was used and then in the 1930's under FDR we returned to the Hamiltonian model which we still follow today. Bottom line is Chris Rock is right and according to the writings we have from the founding fathers (most of them), they would agree whole heartedly with Mr. Rock. I'm impressed with your grasp of the history of the holiday, but it's a bit like arguing that Jesus wasn't really born on December 25th. The point is that this is the one day a year we've chosen to celebrate our independence. The fact that a guy who has done so well in this country would choose to say what he said when he said it is typical self-loathing American crap. I don't respect a self-loathing anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Actually I don't think that at all. But I also don’t think HIS self reflection makes him unpatriotic. In fact, quite the opposite. 1- I think it's bad form, he could say that 364 other days a year, but you're entitled to your opinion. 2- Anyone who got his picture taken with Jonesey is alright with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Chris Rock: "Happy white peoples independence day the slaves weren't free but I'm sure they enjoyed fireworks." The United States has come a long way in the last 30-40 years... let alone the past 236 years... The U.S. is now among the most racially and culturally diverse Nations on the planet. Any diverse society will have some problems... but we've come a long way. Chris Rock knows this, but he can't resist another racist cheap shot towards Whitey.. So are African American's supposed to feel guilty if they enjoyed the Holiday 2 days ago because Chris Rock brings up problems from 236 years ago??!! Am I supposed to feel guilty about things that happened 187 years before I was born? Sorry... but I don't.... This shit is getting old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swandown Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 He is a very stupid person. We shouldn't divide ourselves according to race like this. It's very unfortunate that slavery was taking place in early America no doubt but the same freedom we gained in 1776 as a nation would later be given to all it's citizens. Just because it wasn't realized right away is no reason to create racial divides by calling this a "white thing" or that a "black thing." We didn't gain any independence in 1776. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 We didn't gain any independence in 1776. Elaborate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryingbluerain Posted July 6, 2012 Author Share Posted July 6, 2012 Whether or not it creates division is really up to the person reading the tweet. Certainly didn't seem to me like that was the intention. Also, I don't think it is fair to say he is knocking the country. True, he is remembering a troubled part of its history, but what is wrong with that? Is it better to pretend it didn't happen? Why do you assume he doesn't revere the holiday? Seems to me from what he said he just thinks it is also appropriate for people to remember they are celebrating a time when not ALL Americans had independence. Seems like fair commentary to me made by someone who truly loves his country. To my mind, those who blindly chant "USA, USA" (or any other country) with no self reflection don't really understand the meaning of "love of country". Independence day celebrates America's freedom from British rule. It has nothing to do with slavery or race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil. Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Maybe Chris Rock had a few beers , then tweeted , he will not be the first or last to upset someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swandown Posted July 6, 2012 Share Posted July 6, 2012 Elaborate. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Really? We declared it and subsequently gained it in the war. Why are you playing with semantics? What does it have to do with Rock's tweet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Technically we gained our independence in 1783 with the signing of the Treaty of Paris and the Treaty of Versailles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swandown Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 We declared it and subsequently gained it in the war. Why are you playing with semantics? What does it have to do with Rock's tweet? I was just responding to the guy who said "He is a very stupid person" followed by "we gained freedom in 1776". I enjoy irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted July 7, 2012 Share Posted July 7, 2012 Some people's ignorance is truly astonishing. Indeed. Wouldn't be suprised to learn that Africa was the first area of the world to impose slavery on a majority of it's population, long before any white men ventured there. Black people enslaving their own, and in more modern times blacks selling their own to the whites or other peoples. Ever hear a black person make comments about another black person descended from a rival tribe from those days? There are more slaves NOW in the world than any other period of time. I don't want to nieve and say that there are no longer any slaves here in the U.S., but we certainly address it when there is evidence of it. We also carry a large measure of unwarrented guilt over our brief indulgence of mankinds' worst attribute, keeping us easy targets for this racially triggered abuse. I don't cater to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Indeed. Wouldn't be suprised to learn that Africa was the first area of the world to impose slavery on a majority of it's population, long before any white men ventured there. Black people enslaving their own, and in more modern times blacks selling their own to the whites or other peoples. Ever hear a black person make comments about another black person descended from a rival tribe from those days? There are more slaves NOW in the world than any other period of time. I don't want to nieve and say that there are no longer any slaves here in the U.S., but we certainly address it when there is evidence of it. We also carry a large measure of unwarrented guilt over our brief indulgence of mankinds' worst attribute, keeping us easy targets for this racially triggered abuse. I don't cater to it. You are pretty much spot on. The slave trade from the 17th century to the 19th century could never have happened without the cooperation of the African tribes who supported it for their own gain (getting rid of rival tribes, consolidating power). I love that part in the first part of the mini-series Roots where a bunch of colonial looking white fuckers are chasing Kunta Kinte through the bush of Africa and then catch him...never happened. The slaves sold in the slave trade were all captured by dominant tribes and sold to the slavers on the coast. If whitey had to grab the slaves whitey would have been lion food. The real irony is the back to Africa (ala Garvey's 19th century Liberia experiment) movement Jesse Jackson was as thinking of reviving was scuttled before it got off the ground. One of his buddies told him, "hey Jesse, don't ya think we should go there first and check it out before we hit the high seas???" So Jesse and entourage go to "the motherland," find out it is both a shithole and the real Africans think they are a bunch of assholes, and guess what??? After that ol' Jesse never mentioned going back to Africa. Shit, the Congolese probably would have killed and ate him on principal alone. I just can't decide which one of the two fools Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton, has done more to derail black suffrage...Ok, its definitely Al " I will burn down the Bronx to get what I want" Sharpton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmie ray Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 You are pretty much spot on. Well, I guess if you throw enough horseshoes, you might get a ringer sometime... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 I suppose I just don't get the significance of what Chris Rock had to say. For me, it's not even an issue of whether he was right to say it or wrong to say it. It's more a matter of not seeing any significance at all with what he or any other celeb has to say about their views on politics or history. Who the hell is this guy anyway's and why are his comments worthy of discusion ? Is he running for office ? Is he going to come down off his high horse and actually attempt to make a difference to society ? Naw, he's just going to be another loud mouthed celeb who's trying to reinvent his career by catering to the lowest common denominator and he's going to get away with it as long as his comments are the topic of conversation. Feck him and the horse he rode in on...end of rant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joe (Liverpool) Posted July 8, 2012 Share Posted July 8, 2012 Well said ally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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