2012 American Presidential Election

[cryingbluerain]

http://www.thefiscal...Plan.aspx#page1

Interesting article but it fails to take into account the upcoming tax increases from Obamacare and the additional tax burden this will place on the U.S. economy which will result in job layoffs.

[Walter]

Yeah, you can't change your position but you can "evolve". ;-)

When you change your position only at times of debates to look different to the masses, who are not at your rallies to hear your real platform, you are being disingenuous. Fortunately enough people saw through that during the debates.

[mstork]

When you change your position only at times of debates to look different to the masses, who are not at your rallies to hear your real platform, you are being disingenuous. Fortunately enough people saw through that during the debates.

You mean like Obama changing position on the individual mandate after beating Hillary in the primaries? Same thing. They're all politicians Walter, don't lose sight of that.

[Sagittarius Rising]

I don't think it's a good comparison. Reagan didn't watch it unfold in real time like Obama did, and even if he did he couldn't have stopped it because it was a bomb. Benghazi was a siege over the course of hours. Obama could have made a move to send help and save Americans, or at least try. Reagan didn't have that option in real time.

Furthermore, it's the coverup! Reagan called it what it was and blamed the right people. Obama blamed a video, the state department more or less apologized for a video, and they frog marched the maker of this video to jail to satisfy this false narrative. There's a lot to feel outraged about here and really it's not a good comparison to Reagan and the marines.

And a little off topic but can you imagine George H.W. Bush comforting a father of one of the fallen marines by boisterously declaring, "Were your son's balls always bigger than cue balls?" What a clown.

Actually, it was even worse in Reagan's situation because he had a month of advanced notice of the attacks and Mossad had been warning Washington of an imminent attack for over a week. Further, Reagan never conceded blame for the incident, he was completely silent on the subject from a standpoint of any blame and instead shifted all responsibility to the Israeli's. Also, our awesome allies, the Israeli's, were thrilled by the attack at first because they felt it would be a casus belli for the American's to go ape shit in Lebanon, having us relieve them of the problem. Unfortunately for Yitzhak Shamir, Israeli Prime Minister and former head of Mossad, it did not go down quite as he expected.

The fact is when incidents like this happen when our leaders choose to place American service men/women in possibly hostile environments, the government has to take EVERYTHING into account otherwise we could wind up starting WWIII very easily. Obama and Reagan handled their respective circumstances correctly and that is a fact. If the Republicans go after Obama for Benghazi I guarantee it will destroy the foreign policy of every succeeding President and affectively turn us into a pre- Woodrow Wilson isolationist nation.

[Walter]

The very liberal Howard Stern of all people was remarking this morning on how fair and even-handed Fox's election coverage was last night compared to the blatant over the top cheerleading on MSNBC...

I don't see how Howard is very liberal. He has voted Republican as much as he has voted Democrat. His show is his show, his personal beliefs are down the middle - much like the majority of this country. I watched FOX News for the first time during the election results, along with CNN, to see how different they were handling things. Other than having Rove and Palin on when I was watching, they were pretty much even-handed. They woman who wouldn't touch the electoral map because she was scared of it, was a bit of a ditz, but overall it wasn't bad coverage. I enjoyed CNN because they were breaking it down county by county and were not projecting things as quickly as FOX was. I never have watched anything on MSNBC, so I have no opinion on their coverage or anything on them for that matter.

[Walter]

You mean like Obama changing position on the individual mandate after beating Hillary in the primaries? Same thing. They're all politicians Walter, don't lose sight of that.

I am aware of that, obviously. But Mitt's changes were so chameleon like these past couple of months, I've never seen anything like it in my 4 decades of following presidential politics.

[Walter]

There has been some really nasty talk in this thread since the Reptilians lost, much of it coming from LedZepFan77. I'm actually surprised he's allowed to get away with some of the things he's said, but hey, that's the Mods' job.

I am too.

[Walter]

But something is foul when a certain race votes at a 96 percent clip. That is a racist vote. Pure and simple. I took statistics in college and it defies all logic. Its an embarresment to this country. Right now the smart money says Obama will fuck things up more than ever and then we will have a Hillary vs Rubio contest in 2016. Of course it may not play out this way, Hillary probably has a far less chance of getting the nomination than Rubio.. Its pretty sad when you cant have an election decided on the merits of the issues and rather it becomes a racial divide that decides it. And Gender too. Oh, those poor poor women have it so damn hard here don't they? This is not the 1920's for God's sake. The Couny executive here is a woman. She has more power than any man in this fucking town. The spin machine is at work 24/7 in dirty polotics. And a blind and uneducated public led by the youth of this country cannot see through it. They are too fucking lazy sending texts and listening to their I Pods and drving, all at the same time. How many of them really know the issues like the 13 year old girl that was posted on this site? And IMO if you were not born here, you should not be able to vote here. At least not until you have lived here a good number of years. I know of nobody that had to even show ID at the polling place they went to. Mitt Romney is a good guy who cares. And a smart guy. And to Mr Obama, I happen to love my wife too. What the hell does that have to do with the price of gas? Who cares what dress your wife is wearing. I sure as fuck dont. I do care about where you decide to get our gasoline from? And who you will give out free food stamps to this month. And now I have to look at your ugly ass for 4 more years. Amen for term limits.

Question Rick, do you receive SSI/disability for your back injury problems? Just wondering....

[mstork]

Actually, it was even worse in Reagan's situation because he had a month of advanced notice of the attacks and Mossad had been warning Washington of an imminent attack for over a week. Further, Reagan never conceded blame for the incident, he was completely silent on the subject from a standpoint of any blame and instead shifted all responsibility to the Israeli's. Also, our awesome allies, the Israeli's, were thrilled by the attack at first because they felt it would be a casus belli for the American's to go ape shit in Lebanon, having us relieve them of the problem. Unfortunately for Yitzhak Shamir, Israeli Prime Minister and former head of Mossad, it did not go down quite as he expected.

The fact is when incidents like this happen when our leaders choose to place American service men/women in possibly hostile environments, the government has to take EVERYTHING into account otherwise we could wind up starting WWIII very easily. Obama and Reagan handled their respective circumstances correctly and that is a fact. If the Republicans go after Obama for Benghazi I guarantee it will destroy the foreign policy of every succeeding President and affectively turn us into a pre- Woodrow Wilson isolationist nation.

So you're okay with the coverup, the false narrative?

[LedZeppfan77]

Uh, what's up with them Swamp Thangs down in Florida? Don't they each 'rithmetic down there? Or are they still trying to figure out a way to fix it for the Reptilians to win, like in 2004?

Wake up, fuckheads: YOU LOST ALREADY.

You are calling us what? Fuckheads and have the nerve to question my posts? You are very uninformed on the issues missy. And you have no business questioning my take on this country.

Oh gee. You are a man. I thought with a name like Tinkerbelle you would be a female. Maybe you are both? Are you even an american?

And for the record, YOU LOST AND DONT EVEN REALIZE IT YET.

I recant, I forgot you live just outside of London NICK. AKA TRIPMENDER.

[Strider]

Pathetic when illegal immigrants are allowed to flock in and cast votes to ensure this prick another term. Ohio, to me is the equivalent of hell on Earth full of devils. At leats if Rubio ges the next nomination he will neutralize the latino vote? The youth in this country and the blacks did not vote on the evidence of his non accomplishments. They voted race and for a guy that wiil "give them things". Food stamps for one. This is a sad day in this country

Thanks for the link, there is plenty of talk on this everywhere. all major news networks on satellite and cable, and all local news channels on radio and such. Even the hurricane has played its part in the outcome. When people voice their opinions on mixing religion and polotics there is sure to be rage born from it. At least half of this country is pissed off right now. And it shouldnt be that way. Even though Kennedy and Nixon were very close, I doubt there was as much outrage the next day as there is on this election. The second guessing begins as it did when Gore lost the White house by the narrowest of margins. This too could have gone differently. Just look at the map and you would think Romney had won. I see alot more red than blue.

Please step away from the radio, Rick. I don't know if you really feel this way or if you're being goaded and having your anger stoked by the numbskulls on talk radio, but you are dangerously crossing the line.

You mention how there wasn't this much anger after the close election of 1960...that's because you didn't have the plethora of yokels jabbering away on talk radio and cable news that you do now.

I've never seen such a bunch of sore losers, not even after Gore lost in 2000...and they had more cause to gripe. Everyone's bitching about how Obama caters to the 'entitlement crowd'; nobody has a sense of entitlement than WASPs. Except for maybe you Romney supporters who seem to think you were owed a win...that Romney was entitled to a victory.

It is talk radio that feeds and stokes this selfishness, this cry-baby attitude. It is little boy 'My man lost so I'm going to take my ball and go home' petulance.

So please, Rick, for the sake of your sanity, turn off that radio.

"This is a sad day in this country."

Really? Do you really feel that way, Rick?

This country just had another peaceable election and transfer of power nationwide...from judges to Congress to State Legislatures to the White House...and you think it's a sad day for this country and want a civil war? Yes, I saw your earlier absurd and abhorrent post speculating about another civil war in this country.

Have you been in a war? Have you seen the destruction a civil war causes? Been to Syria lately? Pakistan...Iraq...Africa...the Balkans in the 90s? Do you not know the horrors of the last Civil War we fought in these United States?

As an Army veteran, I find the fact that you broach the subject, even if in jest, offensive and nearly treasonous. Overthrow the Government and break the U.S. Constitution just because your man lost an election fair and square?

I'm sure that wasn't your intent...that you were speaking in the heat of the moment. But it still is insensitive.

Despite what the demagogues and crackpots on radio and tv tell you, it is NOT the end of the world and certainly not the end of the United States. We still have more in common than the extremists would like you to believe. There is more that unites us than divides us...and the only way the extremists can win is to divide us. That's why all you hear from them is 'hate hate hate'.

Republicans, your man lost. It hurts, I know...I've been on the losing side many times myself. But you have four years to pick up the pieces and learn the lessons from the last couple of elections and try again in 2016.

The question I have is will the GOP resist the extremists in their party and act for the good of the country? Or will they become the party of "No" again and rather see Obama fail than America succeed?

[TypeO]

Actually, it was even worse in Reagan's situation because he had a month of advanced notice of the attacks and Mossad had been warning Washington of an imminent attack for over a week. Further, Reagan never conceded blame for the incident, he was completely silent on the subject from a standpoint of any blame and instead shifted all responsibility to the Israeli's. Also, our awesome allies, the Israeli's, were thrilled by the attack at first because they felt it would be a casus belli for the American's to go ape shit in Lebanon, having us relieve them of the problem. Unfortunately for Yitzhak Shamir, Israeli Prime Minister and former head of Mossad, it did not go down quite as he expected.

The fact is when incidents like this happen when our leaders choose to place American service men/women in possibly hostile environments, the government has to take EVERYTHING into account otherwise we could wind up starting WWIII very easily. Obama and Reagan handled their respective circumstances correctly and that is a fact. If the Republicans go after Obama for Benghazi I guarantee it will destroy the foreign policy of every succeeding President and affectively turn us into a pre- Woodrow Wilson isolationist nation.

Sag, you're missing the point.

As in Reagan's case, you can't stop everything.

Although, seriously, how do you get caught flat-footed on 9/11?

Regardless, it happened.

The issue at stake is the cover-up.

He not only slipped on security at one of the most obvious security dates in our recent history (and let's be honest, because he was so busy campaigning - jeez, he went to Vegas the next day!), but for almost 2 weeks insisted it was the result of a spontaneous response to a YouTube video.

They even took the video creator into custody!

That should send chills up the spine of anyone who's heard of the Bill of Rights.

While he was thumping his chest at one fundraiser after another about getting Bin Laden and his Foreign Policy mastery, 4 Americans died on a live video feed and he knew almost immediately that it was a coordinated Al Qaeda attack, yet denied it and stuck to this ridiculous smokescreen of a story for almost 2 weeks.

THAT's what our problem is.

And it should be everyone's concern, not just conservatives.

[LedZeppfan77]

Please step away from the radio, Rick. I don't know if you really feel this way or if you're being goaded and having your anger stoked by the numbskulls on talk radio, but you are dangerously crossing the line.

You mention how there wasn't this much anger after the close election of 1960...that's because you didn't have the plethora of yokels jabbering away on talk radio and cable news that you do now.

I've never seen such a bunch of sore losers, not even after Gore lost in 2000...and they had more cause to gripe. Everyone's bitching about how Obama caters to the 'entitlement crowd'; nobody has a sense of entitlement than WASPs. Except for maybe you Romney supporters who seem to think you were owed a win...that Romney was entitled to a victory.

It is talk radio that feeds and stokes this selfishness, this cry-baby attitude. It is little boy 'My man lost so I'm going to take my ball and go home' petulance.

So please, Rick, for the sake of your sanity, turn off that radio.

"This is a sad day in this country."

Really? Do you really feel that way, Rick?

This country just had another peaceable election and transfer of power nationwide...from judges to Congress to State Legislatures to the White House...and you think it's a sad day for this country and want a civil war? Yes, I saw your earlier absurd and abhorrent post speculating about another civil war in this country.

Have you been in a war? Have you seen the destruction a civil war causes? Been to Syria lately? Pakistan...Iraq...Africa...the Balkans in the 90s? Do you not know the horrors of the last Civil War we fought in these United States?

As an Army veteran, I find the fact that you broach the subject, even if in jest, offensive and nearly treasonous. Overthrow the Government and break the U.S. Constitution just because your man lost an election fair and square?

I'm sure that wasn't your intent...that you were speaking in the heat of the moment. But it still is insensitive.

Despite what the demagogues and crackpots on radio and tv tell you, it is NOT the end of the world and certainly not the end of the United States. We still have more in common than the extremists would like you to believe. There is more that unites us than divides us...and the only way the extremists can win is to divide us. That's why all you hear from them is 'hate hate hate'.

Republicans, your man lost. It hurts, I know...I've been on the losing side many times myself. But you have four years to pick up the pieces and learn the lessons from the last couple of elections and try again in 2016.

The question I have is will the GOP resist the extremists in their party and act for the good of the country? Or will they become the party of "No" again and rather see Obama fail than America succeed?

The divide in this country is similiar to that of the civil war. There is a very big divide. Are you denying this? Its a fact. And I am not going to roll over for Major Major who has returned to start more trouble.

[Strider]

^^^

Maybe according to Rush Limburger or Fox News there is a 'big divide'...but I refuse to give in to such nattering nabobs of negativity.

So what if Major Major is back? What trouble has he stirred up? His post above is no more inflammatory than mine or anybody else's.

There were problems down in Florida...AGAIN...so his point about 'rithmetic was valid. And some people are acting like Fuckheads here.

You have spent post after post besmirching the black vote, the latino vote, the youth vote, illegal alien vote(WTF? ), the women vote.

According to you, it seems only white hetero males vote on issues.

And who cares if Major Major is a foreigner? Some of the most cogent writing and observations on America have come from foreigners. I've seen posts from Knebby, greenman, Reggie, and yes, MM, that show a better knowledge and insight into the U.S. than some of us Americans here.

[LedZeppfan77]

^^^

Maybe according to Rush Limburger or Fox News there is a 'big divide'...but I refuse to give in to such nattering nabobs of negativity.

So what if Major Major is back? What trouble has he stirred up? His post above is no more inflammatory than mine or anybody else's.

There were problems down in Florida...AGAIN...so his point about 'rithmetic was valid. And some people are acting like Fuckheads here.

You have spent post after post besmirching the black vote, the latino vote, the youth vote, illegal alien vote(WTF? ), the women vote.

According to you, it seems only white hetero males vote on issues.

And who cares if Major Major is a foreigner? Some of the most cogent writing and observations on America have come from foreigners. I've seen posts from Knebby, greenman, Reggie, and yes, MM, that show a better knowledge and insight into the U.S. than some of us Americans here.

Every single news site has said this country is divided and Dems and Rep both are saying that it is and we must fix it,. And you come on here and say it is not? Sorry Strider, you are dead wrong on this. And Major Major came on here and called us a "bunch of Fuckers". Go back and see the post. By his new name Tinkerbelle. Deny that this is a personal attack,. Deny it. Get your facts straight Strider

[Strider]

I'm done here. I've said my peace and am not going to drag out an annoying argument. Let's just agree to disagree...we obviously see things differently politically and that's that. No hard feelings.

[LedZeppfan77]

I'm done here. I've said my peace and am not going to drag out an annoying argument. Let's just agree to disagree...we obviously see things differently politically and that's that. No hard feelings.

Agreed. I never had hard feeling towards you. But MM is a different story

[Sagittarius Rising]

Sag, you're missing the point.

As in Reagan's case, you can't stop everything.

Although, seriously, how do you get caught flat-footed on 9/11?

Regardless, it happened.

The issue at stake is the cover-up.

He not only slipped on security at one of the most obvious security dates in our recent history (and let's be honest, because he was so busy campaigning - jeez, he went to Vegas the next day!), but for almost 2 weeks insisted it was the result of a spontaneous response to a YouTube video.

They even took the video creator into custody!

That should send chills up the spine of anyone who's heard of the Bill of Rights.

While he was thumping his chest at one fundraiser after another about getting Bin Laden and his Foreign Policy mastery, 4 Americans died on a live video feed and he knew almost immediately that it was a coordinated Al Qaeda attack, yet denied it and stuck to this ridiculous smokescreen of a story for almost 2 weeks.

THAT's what our problem is.

And it should be everyone's concern, not just conservatives.

I believe it is both you and Stork who are missing the point. Have either of you served in the military? I was in a unit called the Marine's 1st Platoon which is further broken down into three different designations which I will not go into. Anyway, the designation I was assigned dealt with anti-terrorism and rule number one when dealing with terrorists is fabricate a cover story which is as neutral as possible until ALL OF THE FACTS are available. You really think an incident of this magnitude expects the President to let the American people know every single detail in real time? Do you know anything about strategic operation? By that logic the pentagon should have released all data pertaining to the development of the F-117 during the 80's, after all the American taxpayer is paying for it. Or how about Ike having Mosaddegh assassinated in 53' and installing the Shah as ruler? Should that have been made public as well? Obama did exactly what every head of state has done in similar circumstances and that is a fact. Sorry the President did not inform you or the American population about every little detail as it became available but he owes you and the public shit in the great scheme of international politics. If Obama would have gotten immediate intelligence pointing the finger at say the Syrian's and that info, though later erroneous was released it could cause a major international incident that could get hundreds or even thousands killed.

My problem is certain people and groups in this country hold President Obama to a standard which was never required nor expected before and frankly I am tired of it. Jesus Christ, Chester Arthur was never dumped on as much as Obama has been and he was Canadian!

[mstork]

I believe it is both you and Stork who are missing the point. Have either of you served in the military? I was in a unit called the Marine's 1st Platoon which is further broken down into three different designations which I will not go into. Anyway, the designation I was assigned dealt with anti-terrorism and rule number one when dealing with terrorists is fabricate a cover story which is as neutral as possible until ALL OF THE FACTS are available. You really think an incident of this magnitude expects the President to let the American people know every single detail in real time? Do you know anything about strategic operation? By that logic the pentagon should have released all data pertaining to the development of the F-117 during the 80's, after all the American taxpayer is paying for it. Or how about Ike having Mosaddegh assassinated in 53' and installing the Shah as ruler? Should that have been made public as well? Obama did exactly what every head of state has done in similar circumstances and that is a fact. Sorry the President did not inform you or the American population about every little detail as it became available but he owes you and the public shit in the great scheme of international politics. If Obama would have gotten immediate intelligence pointing the finger at say the Syrian's and that info, though later erroneous was released it could cause a major international incident that could get hundreds or even thousands killed.

My problem is certain people and groups in this country hold President Obama to a standard which was never required nor expected before and frankly I am tired of it. Jesus Christ, Chester Arthur was never dumped on as much as Obama has been and he was Canadian!

You're much less cynical than I if you think it's a coincidence that this false narrative, trotted out at the height of election season, was not meant at least in part to preserve the "I stopped Al Qaeda" storyline. Besides, this administration has had no problem leaking sensitive information that makes them look heroic, even when it endangers our soldiers and allies. Is it really such a stretch, Sag?

Besides, one of the reasons people are outraged at the "video" cover is that the facts WERE available to the President, very quickly

[Walter]

I believe it is both you and Stork who are missing the point. Have either of you served in the military? I was in a unit called the Marine's 1st Platoon which is further broken down into three different designations which I will not go into. Anyway, the designation I was assigned dealt with anti-terrorism and rule number one when dealing with terrorists is fabricate a cover story which is as neutral as possible until ALL OF THE FACTS are available. You really think an incident of this magnitude expects the President to let the American people know every single detail in real time?

This is exactly what was said, when I watched a round table discussion with former officials in the CIA.

First they complain about the President campaigning within days of this happening. Then they complain about the President going to the devastated East Coast areas from Sandy, saying it was just for photo opportunities during the campaign. This is what a large portion of America is sick and tired of....

Well said SR!

[Walter]

Besides, one of the reasons people are outraged at the "video" cover is that the facts WERE available to the President, very quickly

How many "demonstrations" were there, based on that video?

[LedZeppfan77]

This is exactly what was said, when I watched a round table discussion with former officials in the CIA.

First they complain about the President campaigning within days of this happening. Then they complain about the President going to the devastated East Coast areas from Sandy, saying it was just for photo opportunities during the campaign. This is what a large portion of America is sick and tired of....

Well said SR!

This is exactly what was said, when I watched a round table discussion with former officials in the CIA.

First they complain about the President campaigning within days of this happening. Then they complain about the President going to the devastated East Coast areas from Sandy, saying it was just for photo opportunities during the campaign. This is what a large portion of America is sick and tired of....

Well said SR!

Well said? Where is he and FEMA now that the election is over and Staten island is in shambles and cant get them to even answer the phone. They were closed due to "bad weather" if you can believe your ears to hear such shit. And Romney should have shoved this cover up thing down his throat rather than leave it alone. Now he is in and he does not give a shit. Romney was too nice, that is the mistake he made. He gave the American people too much credit and figured that they would figure it out on their own. They didnt.

[Knebby]

No , people just voted for THEIR CHOICE - all of them. Simple as that.

[LedZeppfan77]

No , people just voted for THEIR CHOICE - all of them. Simple as that.

Well not really all of them as they all did not show up to vote. But that aside, we are now percieved by many around the world as an embarresment for not fixing what is broken. A willingness by half of this nation to accept the same crap that went on the last four years and indeed, 1/2 of this nation voted against him. We are truly a nation divided, not united

[DAS]

No , people just voted for THEIR CHOICE - all of them. Simple as that.

No, people voted for who big party money shoved down our throats. Obama would be laughed out of the nation if he ran on his ideas. Romney wouldn't fair very well either.