2013 Rock Hall nominees list

[Charles J. White]

Don't worry Kimber, I got your back.

Sometimes the minority is right. I'm well on record here about my disdain for Jann Wenner and the entire concept of a 'hall of fame' for rock and roll. Type in Strider + Jann Wenner/Rock and Roll Hall of Fame sucks and you'll find plenty of evidence.

But since there's a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame whether we like it or not, I see no problem having hip hop and rap artists in there. I mean, once you let Billy Joel in, the bar is set pretty low to begin with. The Beastie Boys absolutely deserved to be in, as do Run-DMC, Public Enemy and NWA. They rocked harder than any dipshit hair-metal band.

I suppose the groundswell is building for Rush to finally make it...but am I the only one who feels strange that Rush would get in before Yes?

I'm actually getting sick and tired of the term "hair band" what the fuck does it mean? And what dipshit band or bands are we talking about?

Is this what we are talking about?

Or what about this guy?

[Charles J. White]

Call it the Music Hall of Fame and let in Mel Torme, Dean Martin, and Frank Sinatra if Run DMC, Madona, and NWA are going to be in. It's no longer a rock n roll hall of fame, it's a rock n roll hall of shame.

[Strider]

I'm actually getting sick and tired of the term "hair band" what the fuck does it mean? And what dipshit band or bands are we talking about?

As Ted Templeman would say, 'Come on Charles, give me a break.'

For one thing, I didn't say 'hair bands', I said 'hair-metal bands'. Big difference, and if you have to ask you either weren't around in the 80s or you lived in a cave.

Think Poison, Slaughter, Kix, Warrant, Ratt, Guiffria, Bon Jovi, Bulletboys, Europe, etc., etc.

[the chase]

Call it the Music Hall of Fame and let in Mel Torme, Dean Martin, and Frank Sinatra if Run DMC, Madona, and NWA are going to be in. It's no longer a rock n roll hall of fame, it's a rock n roll hall of shame.

I agree with everything you said except the last part. There's no shame involved.

I wouldn't feel right saying someone that has been inducted doesn't deserve to be in.

I definately don't like the way certain Genre's and major bands don't get in because some nerdy critic doesn't like or get them. ELP for example were HUGE. They were the biggest band in the world in 1974 (...Led Zeppelin took the year off) and they'll never get in because the CRITICS hated them.

Change the voting method, have an internet poll for all eligible artists. Let the public vote ... across the board ... Call it the Music Hall Of Fame, have a Jazz section, Funk, Disco, Blues, Country, Prog, Hip Hop, Metal .... right down the line.

Follow the same 25 year after the first album rule and be done with it..

WON"T HAPPEN but that would work...

[missytootsweet]

The debate over the Rock Hall - I just think when entire genres of music get excluded because people on the committee don't feel they're "influential" and you have record label heads involved in the process and showing favoritism, it's biased. Have to remember Jann Wenner was the one who came up with this, and most of the critics have written for Rolling Stone.

As far as hip-hop & rap goes, that's a given, as time goes by, and taking into account who votes and who's on the committee, hip hop does become more of a presence in music in the 80s to present.

But there's people like Leonard Cohen or Joni Mitchell that get inducted as rock performers. To me, if someone's in for their songwriting, there should be a category for songwriters.

dalsh, I'm with you on your comments about entire genres being excluded, especially prog rock. I don't think The Moody Blues have been inducted yet either. With the glaring absence of YES among others, there sure seems to be bias.

I have a different opinion about Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell. They are already in the Songwriters Hall of Fame, not related to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. Certainly Joni Mitchell and probably Leonard Cohen (not as familiar with his work) have put out enough quality music (subjective) and influenced other musicians to be an easy pick for the RR HOF. They are head and shoulders above the Rap, imho. I do agree Rap and Hip Hop are music of today, so I get why that is included as a genre(s).

I mean, once you let Billy Joel in, the bar is set pretty low to begin with.

^^^ Strider, that made me laugh out loud, thanks. Missy

[Charles J. White]

As Ted Templeman would say, 'Come on Charles, give me a break.'

For one thing, I didn't say 'hair bands', I said 'hair-metal bands'. Big difference, and if you have to ask you either weren't around in the 80s or you lived in a cave.

Think Poison, Slaughter, Kix, Warrant, Ratt, Guiffria, Bon Jovi, Bulletboys, Europe, etc., etc.

Listen I HATE Bon Jovi, but they DESERVE to be in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. They were HUGE, sold a ton of albums, over a number of albums, and influenced a lot of other bands from rock as well as the country genre. I agree with the rest of the list you wrote, they shouldn't be there. I would add that Def Leppard BELONGS in the rock n roll hall of fame because they influenced a ton of people from the Metalica guys, to Bon Jovi to Tim McGraw and so on and actually wrote some kick ass songs which were never released as singles but were cool anyways. And they had major global sucess for more then 10 years and they created that In The Round thing where rock bands play in the middle of an arean or stadium.

[the chase]

Listen I HATE Bon Jovi, but they DESERVE to be in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. They were HUGE, sold a ton of albums, over a number of albums, and influenced a lot of other bands from rock as well as the country genre. I agree with the rest of the list you wrote, they shouldn't be there. I would add that Def Leppard BELONGS in the rock n roll hall of fame because they influenced a ton of people from the Metalica guys, to Bon Jovi to Tim McGraw and so on and actually wrote some kick ass songs which were never released as singles but were cool anyways. And they had major global sucess for more then 10 years and they created that In The Round thing where rock bands play in the middle of an arean or stadium.

Not sure if they were first but, Yes performed In The Round years before Def Leppard did.

[lynxwizard]

I agree with everything you said except the last part. There's no shame involved.

I wouldn't feel right saying someone that has been inducted doesn't deserve to be in.

I definately don't like the way certain Genre's and major bands don't get in because some nerdy critic doesn't like or get them. ELP for example were HUGE. They were the biggest band in the world in 1974 (...Led Zeppelin took the year off) and they'll never get in because the CRITICS hated them.

Change the voting method, have an internet poll for all eligible artists. Let the public vote ... across the board ... Call it the Music Hall Of Fame, have a Jazz section, Funk, Disco, Blues, Country, Prog, Hip Hop, Metal .... right down the line.

Follow the same 25 year after the first album rule and be done with it..

WON"T HAPPEN but that would work...

ELP was the biggest band in the world in 1974 ? what are you baseing this on ?

[the chase]

ELP was the biggest band in the world in 1974 ? what are you baseing this on ?

I should have said one of the biggest bands in the world to avoid this ... but anyway here goes ..

1) They were voted best band in several polls...Circus magazine for one

also Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer winning several best Drummer and Keyboardist polls

2) They headlined the 1st California Jam over Black Sabbath and Deep Purple which was nationally televised for millions and with over 200,000 in attendence.

3) Brain Salad Surgery and Welcome Back My Friends were huge selling albums..

4) I was alive in 1974 and am going by memory... but they were it.

from wikipedia

By April 1974, ELP were on top of the bill during the California Jam Festival, pushing co-stars Deep Purple to second billing. ELP's California Jam performance was broadcast nationwide in the United States, and attended by over 200,000 paying fans.^[22] By the end of 1974, ELP were just about tied with Led Zeppelin as the highest grossing live band in the world.

Did you agree with any other points in my post? The main point was that it stinks that critics and a panel of "experts" are deciding who gets in and not the public.. not that ELP was the biggest (or one of the biggest bands) in the world in 1974... Zeppelin were inactive in 74 and came roaring back in 1975.

[Strider]

Change the voting method, have an internet poll for all eligible artists. Let the public vote ... across the board ... Call it the Music Hall Of Fame, have a Jazz section, Funk, Disco, Blues, Country, Prog, Hip Hop, Metal .... right down the line.

Follow the same 25 year after the first album rule and be done with it..

WON"T HAPPEN but that would work...

It wouldn't work for me. I don't know what 'Hall of Fame' means to you, but to me it should be reserved for the greatest of the great, the true pioneers and visionaries. Not the merely good or sometimes great...and certainly NOT a popularity contest!!! Otherwise Velvet Underground would never get in.

Judging from the examples of American Idol, the People's Choice Awards, and other sundry awards, letting the people vote would be a travesty. You think the HOF has a hard time now trying to get people to visit, wait and see how quick the HOF becomes an irrelevant ghost town once you let everyone vote and crap like Poison and Nickelback gets in.

Why is the Baseball Hall of Fame a revered and popular place to visit for baseball fans? Because it is EXCLUSIVE and hard as the dickens to get in. Your recipe for the Rock and Roll HOF would be a disaster.

Listen I HATE Bon Jovi, but they DESERVE to be in the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame. They were HUGE, sold a ton of albums, over a number of albums, and influenced a lot of other bands from rock as well as the country genre. I agree with the rest of the list you wrote, they shouldn't be there. I would add that Def Leppard BELONGS in the rock n roll hall of fame because they influenced a ton of people from the Metalica guys, to Bon Jovi to Tim McGraw and so on and actually wrote some kick ass songs which were never released as singles but were cool anyways. And they had major global sucess for more then 10 years and they created that In The Round thing where rock bands play in the middle of an arean or stadium.

The fact that you mention Bon Jovi, Tim McGraw and Def Leppard in your post suggests that we have a different concept of what constitutes 'Hall of Fame'-worthy criteria. Both you and 'the chase' seem to favour a more inclusionary HOF, while I prefer a more exclusive one. Not worth arguing over...we'll just agree to disagree.

One thing I have to correct, though...Def Leppard did not create playing concerts 'In the Round'. YES did it many years before Def Leppard, as did many other acts of the '70s and '60s. I've even seen photos of 1950s concerts performed 'in the round' style.

[the chase]

It wouldn't work for me. I don't know what 'Hall of Fame' means to you, but to me it should be reserved for the greatest of the great, the true pioneers and visionaries. Not the merely good or sometimes great...and certainly NOT a popularity contest!!! Otherwise Velvet Underground would never get in.

Judging from the examples of American Idol, the People's Choice Awards, and other sundry awards, letting the people vote would be a travesty. You think the HOF has a hard time now trying to get people to visit, wait and see how quick the HOF becomes an irrelevant ghost town once you let everyone vote and crap like Poison and Nickelback gets in.

Why is the Baseball Hall of Fame a revered and popular place to visit for baseball fans? Because it is EXCLUSIVE and hard as the dickens to get in. Your recipe for the Rock and Roll HOF would be a disaster.

Good points. But I trust your opinion as much as Bono's and Little Steven's.

I wouldn't want a free for all either. But there is a bias in how it's happening now that has to be corrected if you ask me..

Truly great artists are being ignored or getting in the year after a key member dies.because some hips critics don't like them.

For a brilliant, ground breaking composer like Frank Zappa to get in the year after he dies and years after he is eligible is very wrong.

i do thik this year's nominees are a step in the right direction and hopefully a sign of things to come.

[lynxwizard]

I should have said one of the biggest bands in the world to avoid this ... but anyway here goes ..

1) They were voted best band in several polls...Circus magazine for one

also Keith Emerson and Carl Palmer winning several best Drummer and Keyboardist polls

2) They headlined the 1st California Jam over Black Sabbath and Deep Purple which was nationally televised for millions and with over 200,000 in attendence.

3) Brain Salad Surgery and Welcome Back My Friends were huge selling albums..

4) I was alive in 1974 and am going by memory... but they were it.

from wikipedia

By April 1974, ELP were on top of the bill during the California Jam Festival, pushing co-stars Deep Purple to second billing. ELP's California Jam performance was broadcast nationwide in the United States, and attended by over 200,000 paying fans.^[22] By the end of 1974, ELP were just about tied with Led Zeppelin as the highest grossing live band in the world.

Did you agree with any other points in my post? The main point was that it stinks that critics and a panel of "experts" are deciding who gets in and not the public.. not that ELP was the biggest (or one of the biggest bands) in the world in 1974... Zeppelin were inactive in 74 and came roaring back in 1975.

EPL were very big but I think Deep Purple were a bit bigger

They were voted best in several polls also at the time, dont have the info at the moment

At Cal Jam they 'werent pushed to second billing'

Also from wikipedia

Emerson, Lake & Palmer and Deep Purple co-headlined the California Jam Festival.

Deep Purple's performance was one of the first to feature their third line-up, which included vocalist David Coverdale and vocalist/bassist Glenn Hughes. Deep Purple were given the choice of when to go on stage, and chose to go on before ELP. Figuring that as with all festivals, the show would run late anyway, they stalled and made everyone wait until after dark before they hit the stage. Regardless of this, the show didn't end up running late.^[2] At the end of the show, guitarist Ritchie Blackmore threw multiple guitars out into the audience and attacked one of the network's video cameras (which had been getting between him and the audience) with a guitar. Later on, a mishap with a pyrotechnic effect caused one of Blackmore's amplifiers to explode which briefly set the stage on fire. The group is said to have left the concert via helicopter to avoid a possibly ugly confrontation from angry fire marshals and ABC executives

Between the 73 and 74 time period DP sold allot of records and I dont think ELP topped them in sales, Machine Head, Made in Japan, Who Do We Think We Are and Burn.

I do agree with you feelings on the Hall of Fame and most of what you said about ELP, both bands should have been in a long time ago, The hall is a joke, I also was alive in 74

[the chase]

I can live with that.. Both bands were at their commercial peak in 1974.

Black Sabbath and Alice Cooper as well

I know Sabbath (according to Tony Iommi) tried to pull out of Cal Jam because of all the back and forth between ELP and Purple over who was going to headline.

Again, I should have said one of the biggest..

Cheers.

[Strider]

It's all apples and oranges when talking about the biggest band of 1974. Besides, the real biggies were all on haitus for the most part in 1974: Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Jethro Tull, Elton John, The Who.

Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Yes and ELP simply took advantage of the vacuum.

Notice I didn't mention Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper was on haitus in 1974, having broken up the great original Alice Cooper band after "Muscle of Love" came out in 1973. He wouldn't return until 1975 with the wan "Welcome to My Nightmare" and therefore begin his slide into irrelevancy.

[lynxwizard]

It's all apples and oranges when talking about the biggest band of 1974. Besides, the real biggies were all on haitus for the most part in 1974: Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Jethro Tull, Elton John, The Who.

Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Yes and ELP simply took advantage of the vacuum.

Notice I didn't mention Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper was on haitus in 1974, having broken up the great original Alice Cooper band after "Muscle of Love" came out in 1973. He wouldn't return until 1975 with the wan "Welcome to My Nightmare" and therefore begin his slide into irrelevancy.

Vacuum ? how does a band do that ? You make it sound like those bands made more plans as Zep,Stones ect were not doing anything that year, it sounds like 'oh those bands are not doing anything thing so we should do more to take advantage of this' I dont think it went down that way.

I can see where you can say the Stones and Zeppelin were 'Biggies' the other 3, no.

But one thing we can agree on its all apples and oranges

[Anjin-san]

Madonna.

[imPLANTed]

It really should be called the Music Hall of Fame if they let pop, rap and disco in. Jusy sayin'. Those three genres are not rock.

[Anjin-san]

It really should be called the Music Hall of Fame if they let pop, rap and disco in. Jusy sayin'. Those three genres are not rock.

Yes,....

[Beckenbauer 6]

It really should be called the Music Hall of Fame if they let pop, rap and disco in. Jusy sayin'. Those three genres are not rock.

I guess so. But some bands/artists who aren't rock have had an influence on rock bands; for instance, somebody like Karlheinz Stockhausen influenced a whole generation of musicians

[Charles J. White]

How the fuck can a band or singer who might have sold 2000 albums be in the rock n roll hall of fame while a guitar driven rock band that might have sold between 50 Million and 100 Million albums not be included? And now the "Rock N Roll" Hall of Fame is going to have Public Enemy and Madonna? Just change the name of it to "Music Hall of Fame" otherwise until that happens it's "The Hall of Shame" for me

[the chase]

It's all apples and oranges when talking about the biggest band of 1974. Besides, the real biggies were all on haitus for the most part in 1974: Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Jethro Tull, Elton John, The Who.

Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Yes and ELP simply took advantage of the vacuum.

Notice I didn't mention Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper was on haitus in 1974, having broken up the great original Alice Cooper band after "Muscle of Love" came out in 1973. He wouldn't return until 1975 with the wan "Welcome to My Nightmare" and therefore begin his slide into irrelevancy.

agreed. I messed up on Alice Cooper. I have some old old Circus / Raves magazines that I thought were from 74, but they were from 73. Alice is all over them..

I respectfully don't agree Elton John took 1974 off though. He toured, started his own record label, recorded Whatever Gets you through the Night, Bad Blood, the album Caribou, and toured.. I completely forgot about Elton..

[Charles J. White]

Elton John's puts me to sleep, sorry, I know Elton can do no wrong according to the critics, but for me his music lacks power, lacks energy, and is sort of the middle of the road safe stuff that my older cousin is into, along with his love of Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel...

[Charles J. White]

Really good interview with Chuck D from Public Enemy at the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame press conference

[jb126]

Elton John's puts me to sleep, sorry, I know Elton can do no wrong according to the critics, but for me his music lacks power, lacks energy, and is sort of the middle of the road safe stuff that my older cousin is into, along with his love of Bruce Springsteen and Billy Joel...

This thread has already veered off topic, so I may as well keep it going.

One of the great things about music is that there's something for everyone. I do not like much of Springsteen or Billy Joel either, maybe a song or two. However, to me, up to the "Blue Moves" record Elton was not "middle of the road" or "safe". I also don't see a lack of energy in his early music at all. Yeah, some of his songs are tired and overplayed.

Saw him several times back in the day, and I have to say some of the most powerful moments were when it was just him at his piano singing.

[Joerg]

It's all apples and oranges when talking about the biggest band of 1974. Besides, the real biggies were all on haitus for the most part in 1974: Led Zeppelin, Rolling Stones, Jethro Tull, Elton John, The Who.

Black Sabbath, Deep Purple, Yes and ELP simply took advantage of the vacuum.

Deep Purple were Billboard's Top Album Artist of the Year in 1973. I guess that the real big bands were on hiatus that year too ;-)

(the attached ad is from early 1974)