reswati Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Again, you're attaching "Christian" as a motivation behind the actions of western governments. Of all the traits you could blame it on, western, secular, modern, democratic, etc., you're lumping these actions under "Christian". This is not the same thing as what is happening in radical Islam, and of course you know that. You just appear determined to subscribe to a moral equivalency that simply does not exist. Why? A lot of Christians, not to mention Jews, Hindus, etc., are hypocrites. Fortunately there are not large numbers of them butchering innocent people IN THE NAME OF THEIR GOD, unlike these creeps who follow an Al Qaeda philosophy. And even calling it an "Al Qaeda philosophy", is not accurate because these types of followers of Islam have been around since the dawn of Islam. I put the words "christian" among these between these gizmo's " " to exactly say that I think those people indeed are hypocrites. Any follower of Christ is supposed not to kill, for whatever reason.......even turn the other cheek, and let God sort the rest out. Seems that there is a lack of confidence toward the supreme being nowadays, as armies grow, and weapons get only sicker and sicker....reducing mass bombing to something that looks like a green lit videogame. The people who butcher in the name of Allah, are also hypocrites. Hypocrites spring from every religion..........man can pervert even the most peaceful thoughts into a travesty. Maybe it is the nature of the beast called man...............we always did and will find another excuse to slaughter one another, motives change, weapons change............ but still the accident remains the same. Seems that we, as being the "crown of creation" are possible the stupidest mammals that ever inhabited this planet (ask the Dodo) This whole discussion began with a discussion about a man who claims to have killed in the name of his god.........this geezer may say he did it for god, there are thousands more who worship te same god that condemn him for his action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenog Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Hypocrites spring from every religion..........man can pervert even the most peaceful thoughts into a travesty. Maybe it is the nature of the beast called man...............we always did and will find another excuse to slaughter one another, motives change, weapons change............ but still the accident remains the same. Seems that we, as being the "crown of creation" are possible the stupidest mammals that ever inhabited this planet (ask the Dodo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I put the words "christian" among these between these gizmo's " " to exactly say that I think those people indeed are hypocrites.Any follower of Christ is supposed not to kill, for whatever reason.......even turn the other cheek, and let God sort the rest out.Seems that there is a lack of confidence toward the supreme being nowadays, as armies grow, and weapons get only sicker and sicker....reducing mass bombing to something that looks like a green lit videogame. The people who butcher in the name of Allah, are also hypocrites. Hypocrites spring from every religion..........man can pervert even the most peaceful thoughts into a travesty.Maybe it is the nature of the beast called man...............we always did and will find another excuse to slaughter one another, motives change, weapons change............but still the accident remains the same. Seems that we, as being the "crown of creation" are possible the stupidest mammals that ever inhabited this planet (ask the Dodo) This whole discussion began with a discussion about a man who claims to have killed in the name of his god.........this geezer may say he did it for god, there are thousands more who worship te same god that condemn him for his action.I get your argument but many posters don't Michael Adebolaji CLAIMS to kill in the name of Islam. Entire armies CLAIMED to kill in the name of Christianity during the Crusades. Both Adebolaji and the Crusaders are lying hypocrites who perverted the faiths they claimed to follow to further their own agendas. It is despicable behavior but, it isn't limited to Muslims. Muslims just happen to be the "bad guys" of the day so anything bad an individual Muslim does is used to tar the entire group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 When is the Muslim peace march? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I get your argument but many posters don't Michael Adebolaji CLAIMS to kill in the name of Islam. Entire armies CLAIMED to kill in the name of Christianity during the Crusades. Both Adebolaji and the Crusaders are lying hypocrites who perverted the faiths they claimed to follow to further their own agendas. It is despicable behavior but, it isn't limited to Muslims. Muslims just happen to be the "bad guys" of the day so anything bad an individual Muslim does is used to tar the entire group. When exactly does history start for you? You mean the Cusades that were a reaction to Christians being driven out of their lands by Allah's sword? And are you really saying we should tolerate jihadist actions NOW because the Crusades happened hundreds of years ago? And never once have I tarred "the entire group". I've taken pains to refer to the radical element and NOT tar the entire group. Some read what they want to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 When is the Muslim peace march? Right after the Breivik one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 When exactly does history start for you? You mean the Cusades that were a reaction to Christians being driven out of their lands by Allah's sword? And are you really saying we should tolerate jihadist actions NOW because the Crusades happened hundreds of years ago? And never once have I tarred "the entire group". I've taken pains to refer to the radical element and NOT tar the entire group. Some read what they want to read. Oh yes, the holy land belonged to the Christians of course, it wasn't Jewish. Hence that the crusaders murdered both Muslims and Jews after conquering Jerusalem in July 1099. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 27/5/2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Right after the Breivik one? Good stuff your smoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Oh yes, the holy land belonged to the Christians of course, it wasn't Jewish. Hence that the crusaders murdered both Muslims and Jews after conquering Jerusalem in July 1099. The Crusades didn't happen in a vacuum, that's my point. Non-Muslims of any stripe living in Muslim lands had it pretty bad. The more things change the more they stay the same (ask the Coptics in Egypt). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 The Crusades didn't happen in a vacuum, that's my point. Non-Muslims of any stripe living in Muslim lands had it pretty bad. The more things change the more they stay the same (ask the Coptics in Egypt). Well, then the problem was solved in the most logical way. The Jews had no longer a problem by being dead, the Muslims had no longer a function, so elimination was logical too. And the Christians had gods will happened, and they lived long and eight more crusades happily ever after. (And they could return to their holy land, even though that was already possible before the crusades) Hmmm, something is wrong but I don't know what it is............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Good stuff your smoking. Oh for Cthulhu's sake, do I look like a hippie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 A bit hyperbolic but it all comes down to the same thing my hypothesis does: a sensual paradise with 72 virgins. Um, not really Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 When exactly does history start for you? You mean the Cusades that were a reaction to Christians being driven out of their lands by Allah's sword? And are you really saying we should tolerate jihadist actions NOW because the Crusades happened hundreds of years ago? And never once have I tarred "the entire group". I've taken pains to refer to the radical element and NOT tar the entire group. Some read what they want to read. During the 11th century the caliphate allowed both christian and jewish peoples to live peacefully in Jerusalem, however by the late 11th century the Fatimid Caliphate began to desecrate the christian churches and were actively encouraging conversion to islam. However there were two main reasons why the Crusades happened. First, the feudal system in Europe was beginning to tear the continent apart due to succession issues and knights having no wars to fight thus no means of income.The knights began to rape and pillage the land en masse. Second, the Byzantine Empire was exhausted from it's wars with Persia and was an easy target for the Fatimid Caliphate to raid. This resulted in a deal being struck between the Byzantine Empire an Pope Urban II to kill two birds with one stone so to speak. The out of control knights would be given blanket indulgences over all sins past, present, and future if they fought in the holy land, riding the countryside of poor, insane robber-knights and all the second, third, and remaining royal sons competing for lands. The bonus was with the Crusader Army dealing with the muslims, the Byzantine Empire was given breathing room. Unfortunately when the Crusader Army seized Jerusalem in 1099 they massacred all jews and muslims within the city, every man, woman, and child. Thank god when Saladin recaptured Jerusalem in 1192 he did not reciprocate, instead he allowed all within safe passage. The crusades also is what kickstarted the European Renaissance. The returning knights brought back all sorts of muslim technologies, mathematical theories, medical techniques etc... So, if were not for our muslim brothers we would still be in the middle ages. Also, up until the muslims were expelled from Spain in 1492 the best universities in the world were in muslim controlled Spain. All the wealthy families in Europe sent their sons to these universities as the muslims had no issue with either christian or jew, it was not until the muslims were expelled that the inquisitions began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 Um, not really Steve. Nope, especially since in 73 days there are no more virginal pleasures anymore, and paradise lasts eternally. Quite a shitty reward for blowing oneself to pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 They mumble the same old shit and then start killing. Goola, hala, moola, boola-------KILL YOU!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reggie29 Posted May 27, 2013 Share Posted May 27, 2013 I've followed this thread with interest and with all the usual bickering going on, it seems that SOME posters are more inclined to just argue the point, put others down for having a different opinion. Murder in the name of anything is pure evil, period. The jihadists and those that groom them, have a perverted concept of martyrdom. A martyr dies for a belief or cause, not kills. This just in. http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/05/28/08/48/alleged-jihadist-arrested-in-sydney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justawoman Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I also bet if you go into the far south bible belt and thell them there that Christ is a false prophet, they will at least try to lynch you (or at least if a long haired guy like me would do that).? Be careful, your ignorance is showing. You know nothing about the American South and the above statement proves that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justawoman Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Well, maybe we should convert to Satanism then, Anjin-San. Their murder quote is relatively low. If you are still convinced to stay Christian, please notice that: If anyone comes to Me, and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters he cannot be My disciple. Luke 14:26 Again your ignorance is showing. You are taking Scripture literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 When exactly does history start for you? You mean the Cusades that were a reaction to Christians being driven out of their lands by Allah's sword?...Except the Crusaders treated the indigenous Christians in the Middle East as badly as they treated the Muslims and Jews. Byzantium was a Christian empire but that didn't stop the Crusaders from sacking Constantinople. I guess they weren't the "right" kind of Christians. This returns us to my argument that the Crusades only CLAIMED to be about Christians from western Europe going to the aid of their brethren in the Middle East. I think is a bit of perspective is useful when dealing with extremist movements of any stripe. Getting our panties in a twist only makes matters worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Again your ignorance is showing. You are taking the wording of the Bible literally. Ironic that some in this thread are knocking people for acting as if every Muslim is a fundamentalist (even when that's not what we're saying), then beating us over the head with a fundamentalist reading of the Bible to make their point. There are horrifying passages in both the Bible and the Koran. In 2013, Muslims acting upon the violent Koranic passages is a big problem, Christians acting upon the violent Biblical passages is not. This cannot be obscured by any ancient revisionist history or moral relativism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justawoman Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Ironic that some in this thread are knocking people for acting as if every Muslim is a fundamentalist (even when that's not what we're saying), then beating us over the head with a fundamentalist reading of the Bible to make their point. There are horrifying passages in both the Bible and the Koran. In 2013, Muslims acting upon the violent Koranic passages is a big problem, Christians acting upon the violent Biblical passages is not. This cannot be obscured by any ancient revisionist history or moral relativism. Beautifully put. Thank you. I was going to elaborate on how fundamentalists of all religions are the real problem, but didn't have the energy. Absolutely about the differences though. Christians aren't beheading people in the street in the name of Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenog Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 To bring this thread back to the late Lee Rigby, here is a link from the UK Daily Mail which contains some amazing photographs of the tributes made by people of all races, generations and religions. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2331710/Every-faith-generation-joined-mourning-Sea-flowers-Woolwich-murder-scene-keeps-growing-hundreds-flock-support-Drummer-Rigby.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fool In The Rain 60 Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 It is an amazing sight to witness all the Messages and Tributes that have been left for Drummer Lees Family... My youngest Son took part in the Peaceful Rally over the Weekend as a Tribute to 'Lee', which was attended by all Religions and Colours. I live about 15 mins walk away from the Scene, the effect that this has had on the Community is one of Total Disbelief... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenog Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Kate, you've got to hope that this doesn't end up in a summer of riots like we have had before. This tragedy is particularly hard on those of you who live nearby - it makes it much more 'real' than simply reading what's in the media. It is an amazing sight to witness all the Messages and Tributes that have been left for Drummer Lees Family... My youngest Son took part in the Peaceful Rally over the Weekend as a Tribute to 'Lee', which was attended by all Religions and Colours. I live about 15 mins walk away from the Scene, the effect that this has had on the Community is one of Total Disbelief... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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