price.pittsburgh Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I have a few questions real quick. I've read that Plan't vocals for Walter's Walk are clearly not from 72 when the music was laid down. I agree. Do you think it's from the ITTOD sessions or later than that? Of the three full ITTOD sessions songs that appeared on CODA, which one would you have added to the ITTOD album to give it extra weight? Wearing and Tearing, Darlene or Ozone Baby? And I know this is probably silly but have you heard about the solo on the Stones Sympathy for the Devil, possibly being Jimmy Page? I've read that Keith Richards was on bass and it was at a time when Jones was out of the band (not deceased yet) and Mick Taylor hadn't joined yet. Of course with it being in 68, Jimmy may have been with the Yardbirds but that doesn't mean he couldn't have gotten called in like he used to for bands. Some claim before the solo, Mick Jagger says Get Down Jimmy, others say he says Get Down Baby. The producer's name was Jimmy and he was singing some of the "Do Do" parts, but even still, Jagger says it just before the solo and saying Get Down just before the guitar solo means you are talking to the guitarist. (If he said Jimmy at all) Even if he said Baby, he was talking to the guitarist, who if nothing else was probably a session musician. I've read that Richards never played the solo live anything like on the studio tack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 ^^^Questions...questions...questions. You sure got a lot of them, haha. Most of which have been answered on previous threads. Have you tried the search function? Keith Richards plays the solo on "Sympathy for the Devil". Jimmy Page is not on the track. "Wearing and Tearing" is the only Coda track that deserves to be on ITTOD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Plant's vocal on Walter's Walk was recorded at Jimmy Page's Sol Studio in '82 IIRC. Listen to the similarity between it and Burning Down One Side. It's unmistakable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
price.pittsburgh Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 I think Jagger says Get Down With it, now that I think about it. It's more clear on the promotional video they did in 68 but the solo is still different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysquid Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Also Brian Jones was still a Stone and present at the recording of this song ( he plays inaudible acoustic guitar) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Jimmy Page did play the solos on One Hit To The Body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pagemeister Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Sympathy For The Devil solo sounds a lot like Page, and not much like Richards. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Pagey. Walter's Walk vocals had to have been recorded in the early 80's. He didn't sing like that in '72. Some think that the song may have been written in 1972, but the tracks may have been recorded later, as it sounds similar to the songs on Presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mook Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I think Jagger says Get Down With it, now that I think about it. It's more clear on the promotional video they did in 68 but the solo is still different I reckon he's saying "Get down, hit it." but then I thought it was a good idea to drink Toliet Duck before coming to work this morning so what do I know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Sympathy For The Devil solo sounds a lot like Page, and not much like Richards. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Pagey. Walter's Walk vocals had to have been recorded in the early 80's. He didn't sing like that in '72. Some think that the song may have been written in 1972, but the tracks may have been recorded later, as it sounds similar to the songs on Presence. I was always surprised that they'd released 'Walters Walk' as a track at all, considering how they'd plundered about 50% of the song and used it note-for-note in 'Hots On For Nowhere'. It certainly gave credence to the 'cupboards bare' line that they'd taken when CODA was released. From the sounds of it they only had the drum track with one guitar (right hand side) and possibly the bass to start with. All the other guitar parts and the vocals are definitely later overdubs - there's lots of whammy-bar vibrato going on, and Page didn't really use a Strat until Presence, and the overdubbed guitar sounds have the kind of flat 'squawk' (for want of a better word) that he was getting around the time of ITTOD - and they're not quite in tune with what I think is the original guitar part. The drum sound has been buried in a lot of reverb, but the snare sound is very reminiscent of 'Levee' - there's a lot of 'crack' to it that's quite unique to that time frame, so based on that I reckon the basic track dates from about '72. Further to that, they were putting the riff from 'WW' that they eventually recycled for 'Hots On...' into 'Dazed & Confused' in '72 and you can hear it in the 'D&C' from HTWWW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babysquid Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Sympathy For The Devil solo sounds a lot like Page, and not much like Richards. Wouldn't be surprised if it was Pagey. I'm pretty sure it's Keef playing that, have you seen One Plus One (or Sympathy for the Devil)? Listening to his playing in between takes (and also the original extended version of "Sing This Altogether") I think you might be supprised at how he can sound. He played bass on the backing track (Bill Wyman played maracas) and overdubbed the solo later. As for it sounding like Jimmy I don't really get that, it sounds sort of stilted and self conscious, though charming. I think Jimmy would have played a far more confident solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 ^^^Questions...questions...questions. You sure got a lot of them, haha. Most of which have been answered on previous threads. Have you tried the search function? C'mon, that would take all the fun out of starting 3 threads a day.... It certainly gave credence to the 'cupboards bare' line that they'd taken when CODA was released. In Jimmy's haze, at the time, it seems like he didn't even know where the cupboard was! Since then they "found" the alternate version of 'Presence' in an unknown box, "Baby, Please Come Home" was almost thrown away among other things that have come up since. Crazy to think a perfectionist in the recording studio like Jimmy, would be so haphazard with the master tapes of their recordings. Sign of the times, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 C'mon, that would take all the fun out of starting 3 threads a day.... In Jimmy's haze, at the time, it seems like he didn't even know where the cupboard was! Since then they "found" the alternate version of 'Presence' in an unknown box, "Baby, Please Come Home" was almost thrown away among other things that have come up since. Crazy to think a perfectionist in the recording studio like Jimmy, would be so haphazard with the master tapes of their recordings. Sign of the times, I guess. I would think that Atlantic own the masters and multitrack tapes (apart, possibly, for LZ1), so storage and cataloguing would be down to them. 'baby please come home' wasn't almost thrown away, it was thrown away and found in a skip as far as I recall. People weren't so into re-releasing back-catalogues back then, and also Zep were defunct and had fulfilled their contract, so it possibly seemed there was little point keeping an obscure previously unreleased recording. Who knows what else actually ended up as landfill? (*shudders*) But even that's not as strange as it sounds when you think about how much stuff the BBC threw out in the 70's & 80`s because they couldn't afford to store it any more. So many tv series and unique historic music performances lost forever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Jimmy Page did play the solos on One Hit To The Body. Yes he did...and he played on the "Heart of Stone" and "Memo from Turner" sessions, as well as several other Stones dates. But he is not on the Sympathy sessions.http://www.jimmypage.com/discography/sessions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
price.pittsburgh Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 Yes he did...and he played on the "Heart of Stone" and "Memo from Turner" sessions, as well as several other Stones dates. But he is not on the Sympathy sessions.http://www.jimmypage.com/discography/sessions I checked that link and noticed it didn't mention the Sept. 65 I Can't Explain recording with The Who Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 I would think that Atlantic own the masters and multitrack tapes (apart, possibly, for LZ1), so storage and cataloguing would be down to them. 'baby please come home' wasn't almost thrown away, it was thrown away and found in a skip as far as I recall. People weren't so into re-releasing back-catalogues back then, and also Zep were defunct and had fulfilled their contract, so it possibly seemed there was little point keeping an obscure previously unreleased recording. Who knows what else actually ended up as landfill? (*shudders*) But even that's not as strange as it sounds when you think about how much stuff the BBC threw out in the 70's & 80`s because they couldn't afford to store it any more. So many tv series and unique historic music performances lost forever... By almost, I meant it was almost gone forever. Yes, good thing it was salvaged. As far as Zeppelin master tapes go, I believe Jimmy has always had possession of them. If Atlantic did, how were Zep II masters released as a bootleg? I'm sure someone around here knows for sure. SAJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Only Way To Fly Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 There's a DVD about the recording of Sympathy For The Devil & it shows the song going through many versions before they get to the final one we know today. It's def Keith and am looking forward to the Sticky Fingers Box coming out next month! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 There's a DVD about the recording of Sympathy For The Devil & it shows the song going through many versions before they get to the final one we know today. It's def Keith and am looking forward to the Sticky Fingers Box coming out next month! That's what babysquid was referring to in his post...Jean-Luc Godard's "One plus One" (aka "Sympathy for the Devil"). One half Rolling Stones going thru "Sympathy" in the studio, the other half muddled-Marxist-cum-60s black revolutionary philosophical bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixpense Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 It is Keith Richards who is playing the solo on Sympathy For the Devil. (He is also playing the bass as well) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 By almost, I meant it was almost gone forever. Yes, good thing it was salvaged. As far as Zeppelin master tapes go, I believe Jimmy has always had possession of them. If Atlantic did, how were Zep II masters released as a bootleg? I'm sure someone around here knows for sure. SAJ? I believe that was due to someone being a little more than indiscreet at a studio where the digital transfers of the multitracks were being made. Those multitracks are getting on a bit (to the point where playing back the original tapes will probably seriously degrade their quality - especially if Kevin Shirley's experience with the multis used for HTWWW and DVD is common throughout the master tapes and they needed baking - which is a very temporary fix and will allow 1 or 2 playbacks safely) and there was also talk of 5.1 mixes being done at one point. I don't know of many artists (or in fact any from the 70's/80's/90's) who retain the rights to keeping the multitracks/masters - it was one of the reasons Prince went into his 'symbol' era. He felt that the work was his, so he should be able to do what he liked with it and keep the master recordings if he wanted to. From the record company point of view that's the product they have bought from the artist as part of their contract. Jimmy certainly has his own archive, but that'll be reference mixes (like we've seen in the remasters), rehearsal tapes, demos and 1st gen copies of masters and multi's from the Sol studio era (possibly), when he was the studio owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Thank you woz. What you're saying makes complete sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indigomoonbeam Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 That's what babysquid was referring to in his post...Jean-Luc Godard's "One plus One" (aka "Sympathy for the Devil"). One half Rolling Stones going thru "Sympathy" in the studio, the other half muddled-Marxist-cum-60s black revolutionary philosophical bullshit. @ highlighted in bold I just watched it recently, after purchasing the Blu-ray cheap, and as much as I am an admirer of Jean-Luc Godard, his contribution to the SFTD movie S U C K S in an unbelievably atrocious way. The recording of SFTD is fascinating though and worth enduring JLG's art movie bollocks. Cheers, SonicD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woz70 Posted April 25, 2015 Share Posted April 25, 2015 Just for the interested: Just about the only record company I've been able to find that allows the artist to retain all ownerships & rights to their recordings is Discipline Global Mobile, which was set up by Robert Fripp. This means that JPJ is unique out of the Zep boys in that he still personally owns the rights and master recordings of the solo albums released on that label - Zooma and Thunderthief. Not sure about RP, because although he set up his own label (Es Paranza) after Swan Song folded it was originally set up as a subsidiary of Atlantic, and to complicate matters further has been distributed by whichever label Plant has been signed with at the time. It possibly means that the master recordings for his solo works are owned by Es Paranza, and therefore by him too, although indirectly - as a company director rather than as an artist (even though Es Paranza has only released RP music)... even so, you'd have to know what the terms of his distribution deals are too to get closer to the actual story. The music industry is a complicated place to be, especially if you're an artist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 "Wearing and Tearing" is the only Coda track that deserves to be on ITTOD. This. It is (in my humble estimation) to the ultimate detriment of ITTOD that 'Wearing and Tearing' didn't make the final released album, that esoteric album needed at least one balls-out, hard-driving rock track... it's Led Zeppelin not Barry Manilow! If Ross Halfin is correct in his statement that Jimmy Page is "embarrassed" by ITTOD, he (Page) has only himself to blame; aside from the fact his own personal proclivities interfered with his overall participation in the initial writing sessions of the album, he himself mixed the album at his home studio in Plumpton, he could have beefed up the overall sound of the album and gave it the oomph he felt it lacked. I believe the reason behind the exclusion of the aforementioned track was owing to time constraints on vinyl, but the second side of the first LP on TSRTS (original 1976 version) - the one with the marathon rendition of 'Dazed and Confused' - lasted a whopping 27 minutes, and the overall sound and dynamic range quality is equal if not indistinguishable from the other three sides of that album. Point being that 'Wearing and Tearing' could have been included on ITTOD (most likely as the opening track of Side 2) and it would have only marginally went over the normal recommended running time for vinyl... but it would have made the album feel a lot more complete as a result. And it would have went down a storm live too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
price.pittsburgh Posted April 26, 2015 Author Share Posted April 26, 2015 This. It is (in my humble estimation) to the ultimate detriment of ITTOD that 'Wearing and Tearing' didn't make the final released album, that esoteric album needed at least one balls-out, hard-driving rock track... it's Led Zeppelin not Barry Manilow! If Ross Halfin is correct in his statement that Jimmy Page is "embarrassed" by ITTOD, he (Page) has only himself to blame; aside from the fact his own personal proclivities interfered with his overall participation in the initial writing sessions of the album, he himself mixed the album at his home studio in Plumpton, he could have beefed up the overall sound of the album and gave it the oomph he felt it lacked. I believe the reason behind the exclusion of the aforementioned track was owing to time constraints on vinyl, but the second side of the first LP on TSRTS - the one with the marathon rendition of 'Dazed and Confused' - lasted a whopping 27 minutes, and the overall sound and dynamic range quality is equal if not indistinguishable from the other three sides of that album. Point being that 'Wearing and Tearing' could have been included on ITTOD (most likely as the opening track of Side 2) and it would have only marginally went over the normal recommended running time for vinyl... but it would have made the album feel a lot more complete as a result. And it would have went down a storm live too... Agreed. I can't for the life of me, figure out why they wouldn't have included Wearing and Tearing. Combined with In The Evening, the album would have had two uptempo rockers. Even if they would have had to get rid of another song, I'm sure Wearing and Tearing would have been better suited than Hot Dog (which I do like) but you see my point. And furthermore, why did Caruselambra have to be over 10 minutes? Just cut it in half and you have the exact amount of time needed for Wearing and Tearing and you keep Hot Dog as well for an 8 track album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Hermit Posted April 26, 2015 Share Posted April 26, 2015 There's no need to lose any other track on that album in favour of 'Wearing and Tearing' and certainly NOT to cut the magnificent 'Carouselambra' by a single second either (perish the thought!)... my point was there's room for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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