Pro-Choice?

[BIGDAN]

Hi all,

Let me ask you all this:you were all a fetus at one time.If you could have spoken,would you want to be aborted?

KB(thought so)

Hi Kev,

Your question is about the only question that everyone on here, and in the real world, would wholeheartedly say "NO" too.

An answer would/maybe to allow every baby to be born and only allow extreme case, as in rape, to be aborted. The unwanted baby could them be adopted, as in the "Old Days" this is what happened.

But we must not allow abortion to become a form of contraception, which we do now, and we should always give the foolish a second chance, so if a woman gets herself in to this situation for a second time them maybe she should be sterilized, to teach her and all women in general a hard lesson.

This way we avoid Murdering babies, we also impress on people that abortion in not the way we want to move forward as a society and anyone involved in getting rid of unwanted pregnancies outside the law would be tried for murder, this includes all those involved, Doctors, Nurses, The Mother and anyone else so inclined to help.

There are enough good people that can't have children of their own to be able to adopt these unwanted babies, and allow the mothers that dont want to have the babies to not have to be so drastic in their effort to get rid of a perfectly good baby and to know that their baby will at least have a life, rather than a death.

Regards, Danny

[eternal light]

An answer would/maybe to allow every baby to be born and only allow extreme case, as in rape, to be aborted. The unwanted baby could them be adopted, as in the "Old Days" this is what happened.

But we must not allow abortion to become a form of contraception, which we do now, and we should always give the foolish a second chance, so if a woman gets herself in to this situation for a second time them maybe she should be sterilized, to teach her and all women in general a hard lesson.

This way we avoid Murdering babies, we also impress on people that abortion in not the way we want to move forward as a society and anyone involved in getting rid of unwanted pregnancies outside the law would be tried for murder, this includes all those involved, Doctors, Nurses, The Mother and anyone else so inclined to help.

There are enough good people that can't have children of their own to be able to adopt these unwanted babies, and allow the mothers that dont want to have the babies to not have to be so drastic in their effort to get rid of a perfectly good baby and to know that their baby will at least have a life, rather than a death.

Regards, Danny

Maybe you need to stay away from women. Teaching women a lesson by sterilizing them is hardly civilized. That's not my idea of improved pre-natal care.

And women wouldn't get themselves into those situations without help from the male half of the population. So before you start on the blame game, please keep that in mind.

[BIGDAN]

Maybe you need to stay away from women. Teaching women a lesson by sterilizing them is hardly civilized. That's not my idea of improved pre-natal care.

And women wouldn't get themselves into those situations without help from the male half of the population. So before you start on the blame game, please keep that in mind.

Hi 'eternal light'

Point taken, I put that part of my post in the wrong way, but as its women that are getting abortions and not men, the world needs to address them.

My Old Nan used to say, "Its a mans prerogative to ask, and a womans to decline". As we all know, Men are weak, so we need the Women to be strong and wise to make up for our lack of it. Apologies for any offence caused.

Regards, Danny

PS. Did you agree with anything I wrote?

[eternal light]

Hi 'eternal light'

Point taken, I put that part of my post in the wrong way, but as its women that are getting abortions and not men, the world needs to address them.

My Old Nan used to say, "Its a mans prerogative to ask, and a womans to decline". As we all know, Men are weak, so we need the Women to be strong and wise to make up for our lack of it. Apologies for any offence caused.

Regards, Danny

Thank you

[Katuschka]

No one has the right to "choose" to end another human being's life at any stage in that person's life from the moment of conception to natural death.

If it was completely clear and undeniable that an undevelopped fetus can be classified as "human being" or "person," there would be no controversy regarding abortion.

Since it is not so, any fierce judgement whether it is immoral or not is a bit precarious. You should ask yourself a question why we do not have the right to kill another human being, yet is it OK to "choose" to end the life of an animal. Clearly, what makes us what (or who) we are is the fact that we are conscious of our own selves and of our own death, which makes death a very painful event in our lives = it is therefore immoral to rob one of his or her hopes and expectations, and to expose them to such a traumatic experience. Now, I doubt that a human fetus (almost undistinguishible from other mammals in the first stages of development) already possesses what we call a "soul" and is able to feel the same.

I believe that this is every mother's own moral dillema. My own beliefs prevent me from choosing this as an option (no, I'm not christian), but I also feel that everyone has a right to choose for herself (and himself) since it is a morally obscure issue.

I'm quite conservative – I know, many of you are surprised to hear that :lolo: – but I actually do believe that abortion should be available in the case of rape, incest and when pregnancy truly threatens the mother's life.

That being said, while these are the most common arguments for proponents of abortion, they actually make up an extremely small percentage of abortions performed overall.

The vast, overwhelming majority of abortions are performed on perfectly healthy women for none of those reasons. And that's my biggest problem with "pro-choice" – the "choice" was already made to have unprotected sex, and to delay the choice until after conception at the expense of a life is selfish and, quite frankly, lazy.

I think I agree with you. However, no protection is 100% reliable, so it's not always selfish or lazy. Moreover, it is never an easy choice, it can actually be a very traumatic experience. Saying that those who make this difficult decision are "selfish" is a bit ignorant.

[Zanadu]

Hi 'eternal light'

Point taken, I put that part of my post in the wrong way, but as its women that are getting abortions and not men, the world needs to address them.

My Old Nan used to say, "Its a mans prerogative to ask, and a womans to decline". As we all know, Men are weak, so we need the Women to be strong and wise to make up for our lack of it. Apologies for any offence caused.

Regards, Danny

The women and girls who consider abortion feel frightened and weak at that point in their lives, and need the fathers to be strong and wise to make up for their lack of it. What you wrote is so sexist I could hardly believe my eyes, but good that you apologized at least for some of it.

[Katuschka]

Hi all,

Let me ask you all this:you were all a fetus at one time.If you could have spoken,would you want to be aborted?

KB(thought so)

I don't think I was able to form an opinion on anything when I was a fetus, let alone an embrio.

If it was me at all....

[Electrophile]

I love all the people who think that if a woman becomes pregnant, be it through her own stupidity (no protection) or someone else's (birth control fails, rape, incest).....she should be forced to remain pregnant even if she doesn't want to be. Basically the idea that a woman's uterus is not her own and that what happens with it is not her choice.

I don't agree with what this thread was started about, I think at a certain stage in the pregnancy abortion should only be used in life-or-death situations. Once the fetus is viable outside the womb, that's that. The decision to have or not have an abortion should be made long before that stage arrives.

If I become pregnant and I decide I no longer want to be pregnant, no matter the means by which I got pregnant......I'm going to end that pregnancy. No one has a right to make decisions about my reproductive freedoms except me and my doctor.

I respect a person's right to have a differing opinion on the subject, but where I draw the line is when you want your moral or religious opinion to become or effect the law. Sorry. I won't accept that. The right to choose does not force people who don't agree with abortions to have them. It is exactly what it says it is. The right to a choice. You can exercise it or you can not exercise it. Don't take that choice away from others just because your personal value system says it's wrong. It doesn't work like that and it should NEVER work like that. Religion doesn't belong in our laws.

[BIGDAN]

The women who consider abortion feel frightened and weak, and need the fathers to be strong and wise to make up for their lack of it. What you (and some others too) wrote is so sexist I could hardly believe my eyes, but good that you apologized at least for some of it.

Hi 'Zanadu'

I do apologize, wholeheartedly, I was only asking people to look at what is happening objectively, it would not be my choice to implement them in any way.

I just wanted to show that there are other ways, rather than obortion, to move forward. If people are "Pro Life" then it should be the baby/fetus that is considered first, but the mother should be considered first if her life is under threat.

If I was being sexist I apologise for that, but at the end of the day its women who carry the babies and give birth to them, so it is they that need to wise up, men as you all know never will as it is the men that can choose weather to be good fathers or not, the women are always going to have to bring the children up, either with or without the fathers. But abortion is no excuse for not using contraception, the life of a baby is at stake which is above the feeling of someone who "forgot" to take precautions, although there are always exceptions.

If you have a better answer that would work then I for one would embrace it.

Regards, Danny

[eternal light]

The women and girls who consider abortion feel frightened and weak at that point in their lives, and need the fathers to be strong and wise to make up for their lack of it.

It's mainly important to keep pregnant women calm, positive and happy, and to help them find adequate support systems. If you steer them toward a life oriented path, they may be less likely to want to abort.

Miscarriages and abortions are part of life but not the happiest outcome for most people. Occasionally you will find a woman who is so glad not to be pregnant and so tired of having babies that she will ask to have her tubes tied.

Women come in all varieties and personalities. Each one has her own likes and dislikes, dreams and goals. Some adapt well to childbirth, others do not. I try not to judge them. If I can ease their burden than I am pleased.

And a seconds old newborn makes me smile. I feel blessed when she is able to reach that point where she delivers a healthy baby with no ill side effects. It's a wonderful moment.

[Katuschka]

If I was being sexist I apologise for that, but at the end of the day its women who carry the babies and give birth to them, so it is they that need to wise up, men as you all know never will as it is the men that can choose weather to be good fathers or not, the women are always going to have to bring the children up, either with or without the fathers. But abortion is no excuse for not using contraception, the life of a baby is at stake which is above the feeling of someone who "forgot" to take precautions, although there are always exceptions.

I think you should either a) start speaking for yourself, or stop posting in this thread for good. This is a good advice, next time I'll tell you to shut up.

[Zanadu]

Hi 'Zanadu'

I do apologize, wholeheartedly, I was only asking people to look at what is happening objectively, it would not be my choice to implement them in any way.

I just wanted to show that there are other ways, rather than obortion, to move forward. If people are "Pro Life" then it should be the baby/fetus that is considered first, but the mother should be considered first if her life is under threat.

If I was being sexist I apologise for that, but at the end of the day its women who carry the babies and give birth to them, so it is they that need to wise up, men as you all know never will as it is the men that can choose weather to be good fathers or not, the women are always going to have to bring the children up, either with or without the fathers. But abortion is no excuse for not using contraception, the life of a baby is at stake which is above the feeling of someone who "forgot" to take precautions, although there are always exceptions.

If you have a better answer that would work then I for one would embrace it.

Regards, Danny

Ok, maybe you have good intentions about opposing abortion, but I must say I completely disagree with you about men's level of intelligenge and the father's role and responsibilities.

Edit: And like I've tried to communicate earlier in this thread, my solution the problem is that societies should focus on preventing unplanned pregnancies in the first place, instead of prohibiting abortions. If legal clinics get closed, quacks simply take their place.

[BIGDAN]

Ok, maybe you have good intentions about opposing abortion, but I must say I completely disagree with you about men's level of intelligenge and the father's role and responsibilities.

Hi 'Zanadu'

Then why do we have so many women bringing up children on their own compared to men?

Regards, Danny

I think you should either a) start speaking for yourself, or stop posting in this thread for good. This is a good advice, next time I'll tell you to shut up.

Hi 'Katuschka'

So much for freedom of speech ah?

And I was speaking from experience and observation, my own, so I am speaking for myself, OK.

And please dont bother yourself to reply as you will only be telling me to "shut up", and this I will do gladly.

Regards, Danny

[Zanadu]

Hi 'Zanadu'

Then why do we have so many women bringing up children on their own compared to men?

Regards, Danny

Because people let the fathers off the hook.

[BIGDAN]

Because people let the fathers off the hook.

Hi 'Zanadu'

And how do you keep the fathers on the hook?

Regards, Danny

[Katuschka]

So much for freedom of speech ah?

Freedom of speech? My telling to you to shut up would not prevent you from speaking your mind, would it. So it obviously wasn't used in this sense. It was merely an abusive response to a post I considered abusive and apologetical. It is not women's duty to be a good mother, it's a matter of her conscience and morality, and the same thing applies to men, because that's what advanced society demands. The fact that women often end up as single parents has nothing to do with the initial responsibility for the life of the child. If the man denies this responsibility, his weakness cannot be justified. It's his own weakness, and it contrasts with the soundness of other men who have been able to face the results of their actions. It takes two to tango.

[BIGDAN]

Freedom of speech? My telling to you to shut up would not prevent you from speaking your mind, would it. So it obviously wasn't used in this sense. It was merely an abusive response to a post I considered abusive and apologetical. It is not women's duty to be a good mother, it's a matter of her conscience and morality, and the same thing applies to men, because that's what advanced society demands. The fact that women often end up as single parents has nothing to do with the initial responsibility for the life of the child. If the man denies this responsibility, his weakness cannot be justified. It's his own weakness, and it contrasts with the soundness of other men who have been able to face the results of their actions. It takes two to tango.

Hi 'Katuschka'

You are so right, but it is the women who end up holding the baby is it not?

so you would think that they would have more sense, would you not?

My posts have not been abusive, only informative and questioning, I leave the abuse too you as you seem so good at it.

I disagree with you there, in my opinion both parents have a "DUTY" to the child that they both brought in to this world.

Just one, or two words of advice to you from me, quote, "dont get them in a twist" and "keep them on", and to all the men/boys out there, "keep it in your trousers" or "put something on it".

Regards, Danny

[zepyep]

Hi all,Dan,

Did nt put yu on ignore list.Thought I was tough guy,...oh well,...

Your question is about the only question that everyone on here, and in the real world, would wholeheartedly say "NO" too.

Funny that.We have voice to say that.

An answer would/maybe to allow every baby to be born and only allow extreme case, as in rape, to be aborted. The unwanted baby could them be adopted, as in the "Old Days" this is what happened.

Look up unwanted babies.Many would be surprised who they are and who they became.Mmm,..

[but we must not allow abortion to become a form of contraception, which we do now, and we should always give the foolish a second chance, so if a woman gets herself in to this situation for a second time them maybe she should be sterilized, to teach her and all women in general a hard lesson.

I already have seen/witness this.Very bad and when she meet her man they could not have children.But past the gravy!They adopted 3 wonderful kids!

This way we avoid Murdering babies, we also impress on people that abortion in not the way we want to move forward as a society and anyone involved in getting rid of unwanted pregnancies outside the law would be tried for murder, this includes all those involved, Doctors, Nurses, The Mother and anyone else so inclined to help.

So sorry,we do this all the time,we just wait a little bit longer.

There are enough good people that can't have children of their own to be able to adopt these unwanted babies, and allow the mothers that dont want to have the babies to not have to be so drastic in their effort to get rid of a perfectly good baby and to know that their baby will at least have a life, rather than a death.

Unless there is a turkey baster involved,.....young ladies and women get pregnant.And unless you think the 'donors' get off the hook.The top 10 offenders at the MA post offices are not on the FBI list.There the deadbeat dads,...

And so it goes,...

KB

[Zanadu]

Hi 'Zanadu'

And how do you keep the fathers on the hook?

Regards, Danny

Hi.

By not talking to future fathers like your nanny a long time ago, for instance. Parents, nannies, teachers, army... should not encourage sexism.

There are many ways, of course, and maybe the fastest solution for a society could be that the absent parent would have to pay enough child support to actually take care of the child's material needs at least. There's not much point in trying to force parents to live together when they don't want to (although that has been done too ), but a society can encourage them to have a joint custody of the children, provide opportunity for father's leave etc.

[zepyep]

It takes a village.

Hillary

[BIGDAN]

Hi all,Dan,

Did nt put yu on ignore list.Thought I was tough guy,...oh well,...

Funny that.We have voice to say that.

Look up unwanted babies.Many would be surprised who they are and who they became.Mmm,..

I already have seen/witness this.Very bad and when she meet her man they could not have children.But past the gravy!They adopted 3 wonderful kids!

So sorry,we do this all the time,we just wait a little bit longer.

Unless there is a turkey baster involved,.....young ladies and women get pregnant.And unless you think the 'donors' get off the hook.The top 10 offenders at the MA post offices are not on the FBI list.There the deadbeat dads,...

And so it goes,...

KB

Hi Kev,

Bravo, mate its only our opinion, nothing to get too mad about. Rather have you as a friend than an enemy, and I never pointed my finger at the American people only its governments.

I dont have all the answers, I only posted to see if I could ask people to see it from another view point, my suggestions were only suggestions not what I wanted to happen or endorsed, just goes to show how people get the wrong point though.

Whats the answer?

Regards, Danny

PS. This seems to have started around the same time as the "Permissive Society" reared its head in the 60s, all went bad from then on.

[BIGDAN]

Hi.

By not talking to future fathers like your nanny a long time ago, for instance. Parents, nannies, teachers, army... should not encourage sexism.

There are many ways, of course, and maybe the fastest solution for a society could be that the absent parent would have to pay enough child support to actually take care of the child's material needs at least. There's not much point in trying to force parents to live together when they don't want to (although that has been done too ), but a society can encourage them to have a joint custody of the children, provide opportunity for father's leave etc.

Hi 'Zanadu'

Agree, totally.

If you can, watch shows like "Jeremy Kyle" "Trisha", in America I know you have your own shows like this. Its full of young kids, absent fathers, unmarried mothers, the list goes on.

Making the fathers pay more is one way, but many/most dont work and many never will, there has to be an answer somewhere. We may need to go back in time and revisit what worked them and implement that, however unpalatable now. But the use of abortion to control pregnancies is not the way, is it?

Regards, Danny

[zepyep]

Hi all,

OK,I'll admit it,I is a A-hole!

I fell better.

Now,I don't have any answers either.But ,please,some way let's face the facts.Boys/men/s***heads do not get pregnant. And Ladies don't let them get away with it!

Danny-boy write me off list,We need to talk.

KB(horror stories anyone?)

Hi Kev,

Bravo, mate its only our opinion, nothing to get too mad about. Rather have you as a friend than an enemy, and I never pointed my finger at the American people only its governments.

I dont have all the answers, I only posted to see if I could ask people to see it from another view point, my suggestions were only suggestions not what I wanted to happen or endorsed, just goes to show how people get the wrong point though.

Whats the answer?

Regards, Danny

PS. This seems to have started around the same time as the "Permissive Society" reared its head in the 60s, all went bad from then on.

[Stargroves Tangie]

I love all the people who think that if a woman becomes pregnant, be it through her own stupidity (no protection) or someone else's (birth control fails, rape, incest).....she should be forced to remain pregnant even if she doesn't want to be. Basically the idea that a woman's uterus is not her own and that what happens with it is not her choice.

I don't agree with what this thread was started about, I think at a certain stage in the pregnancy abortion should only be used in life-or-death situations. Once the fetus is viable outside the womb, that's that. The decision to have or not have an abortion should be made long before that stage arrives.

If I become pregnant and I decide I no longer want to be pregnant, no matter the means by which I got pregnant......I'm going to end that pregnancy. No one has a right to make decisions about my reproductive freedoms except me and my doctor.

I respect a person's right to have a differing opinion on the subject, but where I draw the line is when you want your moral or religious opinion to become or effect the law. Sorry. I won't accept that. The right to choose does not force people who don't agree with abortions to have them. It is exactly what it says it is. The right to a choice. You can exercise it or you can not exercise it. Don't take that choice away from others just because your personal value system says it's wrong. It doesn't work like that and it should NEVER work like that. Religion doesn't belong in our laws.

ITA, Electrophile

[lzfan715]

I am pro-choice for a few reasons but the main one is that I recently had to have a Curette (the same procedure as an abortion at 13-14 weeks the pregnancy was a molar pregnancy - look it up if you want to know more I can't explain it). In my situation there was no other choice. It hurt and it was hard and I still have to have regular blood and other tests to make sure I don't have cancer.

AND BELIEVE ME there is no such thing as an abortion of convenience - it is never convenient it is always emotional and it is not a method of contraception - nobody wants to have one... That is a common misconception. But lots of people HAVE to have them - and for so many reasons - medical and otherwise...

I think it is just so ironic and STUPID that someone who claims to be 'pro-life' can say 'people who have (or do) abortions should be shot'... um that is the most ironic and moronic thing I have ever heard!

I mean FIX society before jumping on your so-called moral high horse and even then get a better understanding of the subject!

but this particular case has nothing to do with the abortion debate really - other than to prove that if it was more readily available in proper hospitals none of this would have happened...

Anyway when sex education (all education for that matter) is so badly taught abortions are going to be a fact of life... no matter if they are illegal or not!

first of all, I'm very sorry to hear about your loss and I hope that you can heal emotionally from it.

I am pro-life, but if it is for a medical reason, I'm okay with that. No one is at fault for this kinds of things.

I also don't say that anyone who gets or gives abortions should be shot because like you said that's so ironic. Right now abortions are legal, and if someone choses to have one that is their choice. It isn't one I agree with, but I can't do anything about it.

And I don't mean to get on a high horse with my morals, if someone is pro-choice that is fine with me, but I'm not.