Jump to content
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
irondirigible

I refuse to believe there won't be any more official release of live albums.

Recommended Posts

32 minutes ago, 76229 said:

you realise JP would want to take charge of this personally, and it would take a while...

Oh, I fully understand that.

Why can't Page just release two of the most badass live Zep moments of all-time?  STH and TU from the 24th. Is that too much to ask??

And I've studied Bonham's live playing so closely the last 25 years that I could EASILY imagine every place a bass drum hit would be on that 23rd recording and would be able to listen to it with no issues WHATSOEVER.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps one idea would be a box set combining cuts and sections of various live shows, rather than have one live show for one release.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's easier than you think to fix Bonhams missing kick drum.

1. Firstly there is leakage.  His kick drum was picked up by other Mics, so it's there, just not LOUD enough.  

2. Sample let's say, 5 different kick drum hits from Bonzo from another night.

3. Go through concert at just paste paste paste paste paste 

it would take a little while, not as long as you think.  A song a day is doable I'd say.

The general public, and I dare say most of us would never know the difference. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Caveman's comments were incomplete.

50 minutes ago, bluecongo said:

Go through concert at just paste paste paste paste paste

this.

For Celebration Day, which was taken as a single waveform, drum samples were used throughout as needed. If you listen for them you can hear them. If you didn't know this was the case, you probably didn't notice.

Some uncirculated recordings exist of the Earls Court dates that do have plenty of bleed on them that would be fine without doing the cut & paste or surgical use of a DAW.  Been done a thousand times. Block eq and parallel eq techniques would take care of it and it would be a simple undertaking.

It feels like a nostalgia project.  What's to hear that hasn't been heard many times elsewhere?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, LedElvis75 said:

Why would we need to mathematically determine where and when it was used?  We have a decent audience recording that could be used to pinpoint exactly where and when Bonham hit the kick drum.

Yes, excellent point which would make the task even easier 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Regarding Bonzo´s drums. I think it may be possible. Just look at Jakko Jaksyk did for the recent Jethro Tull Songs from teh Wood llive concert...managed to synch teh audio and video from different shows and made it work really good. You wouldn´t tell audio and video belong partly to different shows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, SymphonyX said:

Audio and Video of Iceland 1970 will be out soon.... but not yet.   Your going to have to wait and suffer like the rest of us

I believe your trolling. . It sounds like you have info and you're not sharing with the people who want it most. . This show is in my top 3 of shows I want and have heard nothing about AUD or VID for it so if you have info SHARE PLEASE!!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What's wrong with a moment of pain for a lifetime of pleasure :)   We are used to suffering and will continue that way

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, IpMan said:

Yes, excellent point which would make the task even easier 

Absolutely....although what about May 18, that's an incredible show too. A compilation of Earl's Court - cherry picked best takes would be nice , eh?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, LedElvis75 said:

Why would we need to mathematically determine where and when it was used?  We have a decent audience recording that could be used to pinpoint exactly where and when Bonham hit the kick drum.

What about all the ghost notes played on a bass drum that aren't heard, but felt; the use of the bass drum in complicated fills (he often inserts the bass drums between toms in that classic triplet fill); the subtle changes in force he hits the pedal (it's not just a thud at one volume level); etc, etc.

You're talking about reducing an art form to a "thud" inserted by an algorithm.

It would be an insult to Bonham's legacy and talent.

I'm all for fixing up the odd note and bum vocal here and there, but creating a whole bass drum score and pasting it in.

Nah, it wouldn't work and Page wouldn't entertain it.

Edited by Boleskinner

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SymphonyX said:

What's wrong with a moment of pain for a lifetime of pleasure :)   We are used to suffering and will continue that way

Sure, ok, whatever.

Troll

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Boleskinner said:

What about all the ghost notes played on a bass drum that aren't heard, but felt; the use of the bass drum in complicated fills (he often inserts the bass drums between toms in that classic triplet fill); the subtle changes in force he hits the pedal (it's not just a thud at one volume level); etc, etc.

You're talking about reducing an art form to a "thud" inserted by an algorithm.

It would be an insult to Bonham's legacy and talent.

I'm all for fixing up the odd note and bum vocal here and there, but creating a whole bass drum score and pasting it in.

Nah, it wouldn't work and Page wouldn't entertain it.

Another poster already addressed that. Even if the kick drum mike did not pick up, there would still be audio bleed from the half dozen other mikes used on the kit so all those glorious kick drum beats are still there, just lower in the mix and that includes the ghost notes. One just needs to bring them up that's all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

audio and video of Iceland '70 is already out. if theres more, its probably with in-camera microphone audio. someone on some forum somewhere suggested once that it was filmed in the same breath as Bath and Royal Albert Hall, for that canned 1970 live on tour film, but I find that hard to believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, bluecongo said:

It's easier than you think to fix Bonhams missing kick drum.

1. Firstly there is leakage.  His kick drum was picked up by other Mics, so it's there, just not LOUD enough.  

2. Sample let's say, 5 different kick drum hits from Bonzo from another night.

3. Go through concert at just paste paste paste paste paste 

it would take a little while, not as long as you think.  A song a day is doable I'd say.

The general public, and I dare say most of us would never know the difference. 

 

I'll add match the voume of the samples to what was played, tone, emphasis to certain notes.

The future of live releases IMO. I'm all for it considering its our only hope of 90% of recorded Zeppelin being released officially, especially 1977. We'll never see anything from '77 released without doctored audio. And most wouldn't notice a difference. Or wouldn't care.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Dirty Work said:

It's easier than you think to fix Bonhams missing kick drum.

1. Firstly there is leakage.  His kick drum was picked up by other Mics, so it's there, just not LOUD enough.

Bass drums are recorded with special mics to pick up the low frequencies, etc, so the other mics would not be that good, plus they would not pick up ghosts notes as other posters have suggested.

I'm not doubting it could be done, I just think it would be crap and an insult to Bonham's legacy.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

a sample from an uncirculated recording of EC, the kick does get covered up yet it is there so grab the original multi and there ya have it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Dirty Work said:

audio and video of Iceland '70 is already out. if theres more, its probably with in-camera microphone audio. someone on some forum somewhere suggested once that it was filmed in the same breath as Bath and Royal Albert Hall, for that canned 1970 live on tour film, but I find that hard to believe.

It makes sense that it was filmed as part of The Albert Hall, Bath etc, as Iceland was hardly on the itinerary of many bands. And they were invited guests.

Of course that tantalising bit of D&C on the DVD is wonderful. So atmospheric. I am sure if there was any more Page would have used it on the original DVD. I think if I recall at the time, Page said that was all that was salvageable and he was really frustrated by the lack of quality film. Personally aside for the Albert Hall show itself, it is the most interesting segment of the whole package

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re Iceland 1970, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :) Although it would be nice to think there's more footage than that little bit we see on the DVD.

I've wondered before about 17th and 18th May Earls Court. Were they multitracked? Those dates were added late, so they may not have been. As far as I know, we don't know.

Actually, now I think harder, why were any Earls Court gigs multitracked at all? Zep hardly ever recorded shows like that, so the obvious conclusion is they had ideas about a live release. Back in mid 75 they would still have been wondering what on earth to do with TSRTS soundtrack, so it's intriguing they multitracked Earls Court but then went ahead with the 1973 footage and never did anything with Earls Court. Mysterious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Crimson Avenger said:

Re Iceland 1970, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :) Although it would be nice to think there's more footage than that little bit we see on the DVD.

I've wondered before about 17th and 18th May Earls Court. Were they multitracked? Those dates were added late, so they may not have been. As far as I know, we don't know.

Actually, now I think harder, why were any Earls Court gigs multitracked at all? Zep hardly ever recorded shows like that, so the obvious conclusion is they had ideas about a live release. Back in mid 75 they would still have been wondering what on earth to do with TSRTS soundtrack, so it's intriguing they multitracked Earls Court but then went ahead with the 1973 footage and never did anything with Earls Court. Mysterious.

It is a mystery for sure. A band noted for live shows and no live album??? In their lifetime? Never understood it. Considering the UK was hardly graced with live shows from 73 onward and the global selling it would have attracted

They had a forced sabbatical for 2 years after EC and one would have thought a live album would have made sense. But it just didn't happen. Knebworth also was Multi tracked and videoed for an official release and nothing happened.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

seems like the management decision was not to dilute the product and thereby reduce the income demand.  To hear LZ live I had to $$$ a ticket and put my butt in a seat. So by restricting directing access to content the brand and message is protected. It was not label logic, rather, management choice. Worked out really well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Dallas Knebs said:

seems like the management decision was not to dilute the product and thereby reduce the income demand.  To hear LZ live I had to $$$ a ticket and put my butt in a seat. So by restricting directing access to content the brand and message is protected. It was not label logic, rather, management choice. Worked out really well.

Your post is lost in translation for me anyway. "reduce the income (demand) restricting (directing)" Maybe I am missing something in your literature?

To hear LZ live here in the UK after 1975 was to buy Bootlegs !!! 5 Nights in London would never supply demand. 5 SHOWS IN THE UK FROM 1973 until the Knebworth shows!! Gotta love the home fans boys?

The band were a US touring band not a European one. What did Plant say at EC? " This is the last concert (in the UK) for some considerable time............... well there's always the 80's.

Rock music in the UK was getting stale anyway by 1976. It showed in the lack of interest in the second Knebworth show. It was all over by then anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Crimson Avenger said:

Re Iceland 1970, what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence :) Although it would be nice to think there's more footage than that little bit we see on the DVD.

I've wondered before about 17th and 18th May Earls Court. Were they multitracked? Those dates were added late, so they may not have been. As far as I know, we don't know.

Actually, now I think harder, why were any Earls Court gigs multitracked at all? Zep hardly ever recorded shows like that, so the obvious conclusion is they had ideas about a live release. Back in mid 75 they would still have been wondering what on earth to do with TSRTS soundtrack, so it's intriguing they multitracked Earls Court but then went ahead with the 1973 footage and never did anything with Earls Court. Mysterious.

My guess: they weren't happy with the footage as it was shot for the projection screens. It has a very stagnant feel to it with minimal camera angles and camera movement. It really doesn't visually represent the band well at all. Thats strike 1. Strike 2 could be Plants vocals, although better than the U.S. shows, there was still a consistent cringe factor to deal with which was probably quickly evident on playback. 

In other words, MSG '73 looked and sounded better than E.C '75....and I fully agree.B)

Edited by blindwillie127

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, chillumpuffer said:

Rock music in the UK was getting stale anyway by 1976.

I blame Genesis not punk rock

the thinking was that if LZ release a double live LP it would satisfy the desire for people to go see them and people would no longer hunger and thirst to buy tickets for the tour(s) and would instead buy tickets to go see Genesis and the other mutant label creations.  Touring was a different beast at that time and audiences had a glut of choices at $7 a seat. The people with greed skin in the game were freaked out. Even in a little market like Tulsa it was normal to see 3 concerts some weeks and only spend $20-$25 on tickets total. Hard choices which is why labels started moving artists to cross-over positions. Hybrid artists- mutants. Management had tough choices. They already felt like IV and PG were late to market.

A great deal of hand wringing and trepidation was going on at the time about what is next for the band. Think Chicago rehearsals in 73. Why do you think they switched paths abruptly and started rehearsing covering standards rather than original compositions- a little out of place for an AOR group that was wailing JRR Tolkien lyrics dressed in hippie rags over the top of folkish music intermixed with a few orgasm originals [WWL et al]? The amount of money on the line is even today considered astronomical.

I am not the only one who blames Genesis. Kind of tongue in cheek, really not though.

How do you get from Nurses Do it Better to Elf Shoes if not from market and label forces dear lord.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Dallas Knebs said:

I blame Genesis not punk rock

the thinking was that if LZ release a double live LP it would satisfy the desire for people to go see them and people would no longer hunger and thirst to buy tickets for the tour(s) and would instead buy tickets to go see Genesis and the other mutant label creations.  Touring was a different beast at that time and audiences had a glut of choices at $7 a seat. The people with greed skin in the game were freaked out. Even in a little market like Tulsa it was normal to see 3 concerts some weeks and only spend $20-$25 on tickets total. Hard choices which is why labels started moving artists to cross-over positions. Hybrid artists- mutants. Management had tough choices. They already felt like IV and PG were late to market.

A great deal of hand wringing and trepidation was going on at the time about what is next for the band. Think Chicago rehearsals in 73. Why do you think they switched paths abruptly and started rehearsing covering standards rather than original compositions- a little out of place for an AOR group that was wailing JRR Tolkien lyrics dressed in hippie rags over the top of folkish music intermixed with a few orgasm originals [WWL et al]? The amount of money on the line is even today considered astronomical.

I am not the only one who blames Genesis. Kind of tongue in cheek, really not though.

How do you get from Nurses Do it Better to Elf Shoes if not from market and label forces dear lord.

 

Funny that. I actually didn't mention Punk but I know what you mean. I saw Genesis in 1978 and they were dreadfully dull but then again I saw The Stranglers the same year and they were equally shit but then I saw Patti Smith and she was fantastic - in my top 3 gigs ever. Between 1976 and 1980 I saw loads of gigs some for 50p some for 2 quid. Zeppelin were an astronomical £7.50 but well worth the dosh. Some good friends of mine who went to Knebworth said enough is enough and went off to to listen to Joy Division. I blame Todd Rundgren myself :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Crimson Avenger said:

Actually, now I think harder, why were any Earls Court gigs multitracked at all? Zep hardly ever recorded shows like that, so the obvious conclusion is they had ideas about a live release. Back in mid 75 they would still have been wondering what on earth to do with TSRTS soundtrack, so it's intriguing they multitracked Earls Court but then went ahead with the 1973 footage and never did anything with Earls Court. Mysterious.

Given there was a genuine "World" tour planned had Plant's accident not happened (i.e. South America, India etc), maybe the plan was to do a live album of 75/76 gigs from all over the world?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


×