Well, Chris Welch's account is that Kramer said to him " he's a masterful guitar player" during White Summer. Who knows.

Absolutely. This is one of those instances where I just think , WTF?? Eddie Kramer was obviously available if he attended the show. NY City!!! There were plenty of quality resources available to make a recording of such a historic gig for the band. ?

If that's true then he's a selfish fan of all fans. I mean come on, after 40 years?? That show was supposed to feature a legendary Moby Dick. Chris Welch said he never saw him play with such speed and dexterity as that night. Eddie Kramer was supposed to be there as well. Maybe tapes were running?

LOL...incredible.

Charlotte 72 is excellent sounding as is the tape from 6/18 Seattle which is sadly incomplete. The above mentioned shows are all very good audience tapes as well. All of the Australian shows are very listenable except for Brisbane. To me , that's Zep firing on all cylinders. Baltimore is another killer show and a very good sounding tape. Oct 3 has a few sources , one of which is quite good. Oct 9 as well.

With all the admiration for the 77 tour shows on these boards, and the rose colored ears...this is the most cogent assessment of the 77 performances IMO.

When Robert says..."St Peter, at the gates of heaven, I'm beggin ya baybeee!!!" LOL...ridiculous

Hahaha!

Plant is able to contort his face the goofiest!

I imagine its pre- encore goofing about. Kinda looks like the Richfield Coliseum show. Destroyer.

Hence, real jazz fans shouldn't be on a smooth jazz forum- period!!

Well, after all... this is the little things you don't like thread. Plant annoys me too, he always has... but he's also a distinctive ingredient in their success. I suppose there should be a "Little Things You LOVE About Zeppelin Thread" too. I have a habit of focusing on what's wrong sometimes too! Here's another little thing I don't like....the fact they dropped Wanton Song from the 75 set early in the tour. I would love to hear a clear recording of that tune!! Damn it!

OK, you make some very good points. This mostly pertains to how I feel about his peak, playing-wise and I just can't agree with 1975 being his apex. I was just listening to Chasing the Dragon ( Dallas 3/4/75)... the old vinyl was the first Zep soundboard I bought back in 1983. Again, some really inspired playing by JP then some real clams, and certainly not peak form for me. Now if he had the fluency and chops of 1970-73 on there then maybe I would say thats the apex because of the creativity and evolution of some of his vocabulary which is evident on " many, many" 75 shows. Also, I really enjoy the Chicago shows from 75. I like the different set with Levee, Wanton Song, and HMMT and I think Page is playing great despite the recent finger issue...he's more concise and fluent than on most later shows that tour - when that desire to explore often sounds rambling and disjointed (thats where we differ). Its all good because you know your shit, and you've obviously listened to a lot of live Zep and I respect your opinion, I just don't agree and that is civil. That's what makes this forum so great. We can discuss all these fine points about our favorite band.

I hate when Robert says " feel it!!!" after ..." it isn't hard to feel me glowing" in 1975 versions of the Rain Song. Always make me go ...

Agreed, we are like minded on this subject.

Many, many shows, too many to go back and actually fine pick. I too have listened to pretty much every available show too, several times, except for the poor to fair audience tapes. I am listening right now to Seattle 3/17/75 . OTHAFA , solo has exactly what I'm referring to... repetitive ideas, sticky fingers...all heightened by the sound board dryness. Its just not at all what I would call his peak playing. His solo on NQ is also a mixed bag of some inspired lines and then a lot of sloppy meandering. The 73 versions were the perfect length to me. The 75 and 77 versions are often too long and anti-climactic. Some people can call it electric noise or dissonance but I don't agree with that. He wasn't as articulate and it shows. That's the rose colored ears thing to me, making excuses for the fuck ups by calling them " dissonances". Yes, he is sometimes trancelike in his exploration of ideas in 75, arguably more so than in previous years but his phrasing often sounds raggedy, and disjointed in 75 to me , and really in 77. Of course there are exceptions... like 5/18 and 23 Earls Court, and many great solos from the late March 75 run in southern California. Maybe its the unsparing stark quality of the board tapes that gets to me so much too because I don't like the guitar tone as much as the 73 board tapes. I prefer the good audience tapes to the boards because the effect of the disjointed phrasing is much less evident but I still contend he rambles a lot more and didn't have the finger control and fluidity of ideas as much in 75 and 77 as in previous years. Also, many times it sounds like his picking is often too hard and he gets this sloppy percussive attack rather than a clean execution.

Ha! Yeah, maybe they should've waited a few years before doing these releases. Premature ejac?

Just listened to 5/23 NQ again and you're right, that solo is off the charts. Maybe playing the Strat inspired I him to those heights that night Insane!! Bonzo's interaction is incredible too. Very wild and fired up but controlled fury. Fucking amazing. Wish there was video from that night.

I am not challenging the color of your ears LP Man, I think you make very good astute observations ! But, when I think of a player in their peak I consider all the elements that should be there. Fluency of ideas, execution, vocabulary, sound, creativity. I simply don't hear his playing post 73 having those elements in greater quantity than pre-73. Heroin will make you not care so much about other things in life, like playing your instrument well , and the amount of clammed notes and chords seems to indicate that to me. Also, he seems to repeat phrases more, often because he missed a note or two or can't seem to flow into the next idea, and his solos tend to ramble because of that. I love that solo from 5/23, its a motherfucker...as well as the solo from 5/18 , and in many other solos from 75 Jimmy displays such an evolved sense of ideas and sonic soundscapes - but in terms of consistent fluidity of ideas and articulation I hold that his peak with Zeppelin was pre-75. I was also veering a bit off topic by bringing up the soundboard thing but it really does highlight the sticky-ness. Also, I should clarify, I meant specifically Plants voice in 73 and 75. I wasn't clear there. I agree his singing voice in 77 was excellent and he never quite reached those highs range wise or stylistically again. And, of course I am speaking for myself !!

Really?! The sticky fingers are omnipresent thought 75 and 77. Also his ideas don't flow as smoothly...clearly drugs and booze were affecting his playing. It's amazing that he could largely pull off all the demands of being the guitar section every gig for 3 hours at a time but he is constantly clamming notes and chords. I think many Zep fans have rose colored ears when it comes to Plants singing post 72 and Pages playing post 73. This is why I don't get too excited anymore about another soundboard tape from 75 or 77. They highlight the slop which is always there, to a greater or lesser extent. I'm not saying they're bad shows , I'm strictly referring to the detail of Jimmys guitar work and Plants voice cracking. I'm hard pressed to find one soundboard show that doesn't highlight these problems from 75. The audience tapes mask the shortcomings. That's why I prefer the audience tapes to the boards, especially the Millard tapes. Soundboards are like fluorescent ugly lights turned up bright.

Was food poisoning the official excuse? Reports I've read from people who attended said Bonzo was clearly drunk and feel over backwards once or twice, maybe during the acoustic set. Regardless, he played a 2 hour plus gig ...Kudos to Bonzo for trooping through it!

Yes, true . I don't think there are two sources though. I have Second City Showdown and it sounds to me like the board levels amd EQ changed throughout the course of the show. There were some PA issues , so maybe that's why it sounds different as the show went on. That might be a good candidate for a matrix since both audience and board tapes are near complete. I did a very amateurish matrix of New Orleans and I think it sounds really quite good compared to the flat board tape. You can hear some overlapping but the vibe is better overall.

LOL. Damn, that is a slow drag there at the start but the tempo actually picks up as it goes. Bonzo and Page are out of sync on the intro, sounds like Jimmy comes in first and Bonzo sluggishly catches up. At least it doesn't train wreck, it actually has kind of a menacing funk vibe to it at this tempo. I seem to remember several songs are at a slower tempo on this show because Bonham was ill (drunk) but the vibe of this show is excellent IMO. Page plays great and Plant's singing is as good as it gets for 77. Kashmir is great from this concert, even though its fairly slow, it doesn't drag. Bonzo kept it together and powered through. Not too many gigs where he didn't deliver a solid performance considering all the abuse to his system.

Oops, forgot about Chicago and San Diego. Chicago 7/6 is a rough show , marred by a rowdy volatile crowd and Plants sick voice.

Yes. Off the top of my head, New York 7/28 and 29 73 are near complete, missing encores I think .