Which of these shows is the best?

[kashmiran]

Wow. "Been a long time..." indeed. OK, I've been off the forum for quite a while, but I'm back now, and I need the help of some knowledgeable collectors. I seem to remember there being quite a few here.

So, I have an agonizing choice between 5 shows that I could purchase at the nearest record store. They are all soundboards (that's all the owner stocks without "special orders", unfortunately ). Make no mistake, I will get all of these eventually, but I can only get one for now and I need to know where I should place my priorities.

The shows are:

May 18, 1973 (New Orleans)

February 28, 1975 (Baton Rouge)

March 11, 1975 (Long Beach)

June 7, 1977 (New York)

There is also "Conspiracy Theory" from May 1975 but I can't remember the exact date. Speaking of which, these are all from what I remember on the album covers, so I'm sorry if I messed up any of the dates.

Thanks in advance for any and all help received!

(Man, it feels good to be back! )

[tom kid]

Depends what tour you prefer really. The June 7/77 SBD is definitely worth a listen, although it suffers from the 'thin' sound that all the '77 boards have. If you haven't listened to any version of this show I recommend giving the audience recording a listen then listening to the SBD.

28/5/75 is a pretty damn good show, one of my favourite versions of No Quarter. The first time Jonesy used the piano I believe. As for recordings, the soundboard and audience recordings are both excellent. I don't understand why this show hasn't been given the matrix treatment yet?

11/3/75 is also a pretty good show but it suffers from equipment troubles throughout. No quarter is especially plagued which is a shame. There is the Millard and SBD recording out there of this show.

Conspiracy theory is from March the 3rd I believe? It's a pretty decent show also, No Quarter smokes.

New Orleans is a pretty good show but there's better '73 shows out there IMO.

Hope that helps ya.

PS: This site is pretty good for short reviews of shows, recordings etc.

http://www.theyearofledzeppelin.com/

[cookieshoes]

May 18, 1973 (New Orleans)

February 28, 1975 (Baton Rouge)

March 11, 1975 (Long Beach)

June 7, 1977 (New York)

There is also "Conspiracy Theory" from May 1975 but I can't remember the exact date. Speaking of which, these are all from what I remember on the album covers, so I'm sorry if I messed up any of the dates.

New Orleans is from May 14, and Conspiracy Theory is Mar 14, from San Diego.

Please do yourself a huge favor and do not buy any of these! At best they are all fine shows, but not the best shows from any of the tours they happened in. And, depending on the version of the shows you're looking at, the copies are likely to have errors such as speed issues, or are unnecessarily incomplete.

You can get mp3 copies of all of them via sites like guitars101 or dime a dozen for lossless. Within 20 minutes, you could have all of these with no sweat. There is absolutely no reason to hold onto the nostalgia of buying a cd copy of these anymore. Collectors have already shelled out the money and put them online.

[kashmiran]

New Orleans is from May 14, and Conspiracy Theory is Mar 14, from San Diego.

Please do yourself a huge favor and do not buy any of these! At best they are all fine shows, but not the best shows from any of the tours they happened in. And, depending on the version of the shows you're looking at, the copies are likely to have errors such as speed issues, or are unnecessarily incomplete.

You can get mp3 copies of all of them via sites like guitars101 or dime a dozen for lossless. Within 20 minutes, you could have all of these with no sweat. There is absolutely no reason to hold onto the nostalgia of buying a cd copy of these anymore. Collectors have already shelled out the money and put them online.

Well, in my experience with 1) the labels releasing the boots, 2) the packaging, and 3) most crucially, the store I'm buying them from, I can assure that they are all complete, high-quality SBDs with no speed issues (The man pre-tests copies all of the boots he keeps in stock, and he's collected for 30 years, so...yeah, I trust him on this ).

I'm buying them more for the instant gratification of it, really. My internet threshold is not unlimited until after 2am, so downloading can be a hassle unless the show is really, really good.

And. finally, I'm aware that they are not the "best" shows, but what does that matter? It certainly doesn't hurt to expand one's collection, and anyway, these are the only ones that the store has that I don't already own.

[kashmiran]

Sorry for double-post, but I just realized that I forgot to thank Tom for his recommendations. So, thanks man!

P.S. I should also add that I can't "assure" anyone that the Nawlins show is a SBD, as I've never heard of that particular SBD seeing release, but given that, in my experience, this place only stocks 'Board recordings, it seems fairly likely.

[tom kid]

Get yourself a download manager and cue up the downloads to start at a certain time and just leave your pc on overnight.

[kashmiran]

Get yourself a download manager and cue up the downloads to start at a certain time and just leave your pc on overnight.

Tried it. Regrettably, my DL manager doesn't like megaupload. Downloads start about 30% of the time, but come out corrupted. Usually they simpyl won't work with MU at all.

[TheStairwayRemainsTheSame]

Long Beach is a favorite of mine.

[tom kid]

Sorry for double-post, but I just realized that I forgot to thank Tom for his recommendations. So, thanks man!

P.S. I should also add that I can't "assure" anyone that the Nawlins show is a SBD, as I've never heard of that particular SBD seeing release, but given that, in my experience, this place only stocks 'Board recordings, it seems fairly likely.

Yeah the version of the New Orleans show I've got is an SBD, it's called "Johnny Piston and The Dogs'.

[ally]

Youtube is a great way to check out some of the show's listed

[cookieshoes]

Well, in my experience with 1) the labels releasing the boots, 2) the packaging, and 3) most crucially, the store I'm buying them from, I can assure that they are all complete, high-quality SBDs with no speed issues (The man pre-tests copies all of the boots he keeps in stock, and he's collected for 30 years, so...yeah, I trust him on this ).

I'm buying them more for the instant gratification of it, really. My internet threshold is not unlimited until after 2am, so downloading can be a hassle unless the show is really, really good.

And. finally, I'm aware that they are not the "best" shows, but what does that matter? It certainly doesn't hurt to expand one's collection, and anyway, these are the only ones that the store has that I don't already own.

Fair enough. However, the Long Beach 3/11/75 show as originally released by Empress Valley (and then copied by other labels) runs too fast. That show, as well as the New Orleans soundboard for 5/14/73 has cuts in it, which could be completed with the audience tape. Same goes for Baton Rouge 2/28/75. These are the types of flaws your record store owner has no control over, as they are inherent to the discs. Which is why anyone serious enough about live Zeppelin would leave it to the collectors to purchase the discs to try them out, and then await the fan remasters to compensate for the inherent flaws in the discs.

So, while I can completely understand instant gratification in the form of bootleg silvers, the reality is that the heyday of bootlegs representing "the best we can get" is long gone. Most of the best work is done after a bootleg is released, and then the experts fix them up and re-distribute.

[kashmiran]

Youtube is a great way to check out some of the show's listed

That's the same version as at my local store! "Rampaging Cajun". Same cover, too. Sounds absolutely superb!

Fair enough. However, the Long Beach 3/11/75 show as originally released by Empress Valley (and then copied by other labels) runs too fast. That show, as well as the New Orleans soundboard for 5/14/73 has cuts in it, which could be completed with the audience tape. Same goes for Baton Rouge 2/28/75. These are the types of flaws your record store owner has no control over, as they are inherent to the discs. Which is why anyone serious enough about live Zeppelin would leave it to the collectors to purchase the discs to try them out, and then await the fan remasters to compensate for the inherent flaws in the discs.

So, while I can completely understand instant gratification in the form of bootleg silvers, the reality is that the heyday of bootlegs representing "the best we can get" is long gone. Most of the best work is done after a bootleg is released, and then the experts fix them up and re-distribute.

Yeah, I can see your point...I actually called Jim (store owner) to confirm what you said about Long Beach and he said it's a "high-quality matrix". Sounds promising, then...

Edit: Forgot to mention that it's pretty easy to slow down /speed up any incorrectly running shows anyway, so performance quality alone is really the only issue I'm looking for recommendations on here.

[ledzepfilm]

I only have one of the options you have, so I have to go with 3/11/75.

A great tape, but a bit muffled. (Might be just my boot)

[tom kid]

Yeah, I can see your point...I actually called Jim (store owner) to confirm what you said about Long Beach and he said it's a "high-quality matrix". Sounds promising, then...

I'm not a huge fan of the Long Beach matrix. It puts the audience recording to the front rather than the SBD. Matrixes sound much better done the other way around imo.

[JTM]

In these days of the wonderful World Wide Web there is no need to purchase Bootlegs.....................So your record store guy is friendly and helpful...Fuck that, He only wants your money.

[downtime672]

In these days of the wonderful World Wide Web there is no need to purchase Bootlegs.....................So your record store guy is friendly and helpful...Fuck that, He only wants your money.

I got to agree In this day and age Paying for live shows Is insane!!!!!!!!!!

[Nutrocker]

I got to agree In this day and age Paying for live shows Is insane!!!!!!!!!!

...Especially when there are people here on this forum who would be ready, willing and able to send the guy the damned shows gratis!

[tom kid]

^

I've got myself a pretty good amp (albeit an old one) and some even older wharfedale speakers that might come under your definition of a good system. It's awesome to be able to carry around live shows with me even if they are in mp3, it is simply not economical to have everything in FLAC/SHN/whatever other lossy format because of things like hard drive space and internet bandwidth allowance. Besides, I can't even tell (and I'd wager a lot of other people can't either) the difference between a 320kbps mp3 and a FLAC file.

[tom kid]

^ You sound might proud of your aural accomplishment there ole Kiddie boy !! If you had a bit more money you could afford more bandwidth to download lossless files and a few external harddrives to keep your music on. You could also buy some of those fancy packaged bootlegs the dude above referenced. Ya know, something you can put your hands on. Then again, that's lost in this younger generation. Who wants stuff ? Who has the space anymore ? Why even buy ANY music, legit or boot ? I even remember the old Yellow Pages commercials. Let your fingers do the walking..... The more things change, the more they stay the same....

Don't assume things you don't know, I do have a few physical bootleg silvers. Whilst the novelty of owning these is cool it really is just a waste of money, none of the money goes to the band so what's the point? It's also very hard to get your hands on silvers in my country and if I do find them at second hand cd shops they are upwards of $60 NZ which I just can't afford.

It's just simply more practical for someone like me who is always the move to and from university etc. to have most of my boots as mp3's that I can chuck on my mp3 player and listen to while I'm walking/riding my bike places. I don't get why it's such a big deal for people like you that people listen to mp3's? If they are fine with the SQ (which I am), why does it matter? After all, it's me listening to the mp3's, not you.

In regards to what you have said about paying for more bandwidth, you might have noticed I'm from New Zealand. Internet here is nothing compared to anywhere else in the developed world really, data is expensive and the speeds aren't terribly great, although it is getting better.

To be honest, I don't appreciate your condescending remarks in regards to my age.

[Nutrocker]

And to pay for a personal music device only to load lossy files is insane too !!!!

Yin/Yang.

I wonder how many here never listen to music on a GOOD system, but only their computer or iPods.

Ya know...one of the biggest oxymoron's in business is seeing a home theatre display with fancy speakers, expensive amplification and then they feature an iPod dock.

Fuckin' hilarious !!! And the masses buy it ! Unbelieveable !!!!!

Alright then, Ledboots, since you seem to be such a fucking audiophile snob, why don'tcha give us a rundown of all your wonderful stereo equipment? You must hang out at Steve Hoffman's site, with the rest of the goddamn grumpy old fart elitists. Judging from the rest of the posts you've made in your short time here, I'd reckon TomKid has contributed way more to the Zeppelin community then you ever have.

For the record, here's what I've got at home: Sony turntable/cassette/5 CD/reciever. Purchased in 1996; the turntable gets most use. Custom Altec Lansing speakers: 6"/10"/14", housed in cherrywood cabinets I built myself. The whole set up was a bit over two grand fifteen years ago, and, no offense to my wife, but that fucking stereo is my pride and joy! The music files on my computer are mp3, yes, but damned if I'll own an Ipod or mp3 player. I only download unoffical material. CD player in the truck and the boombox for music at work are sufficient for tunes on the go. Face it, it's 2011- most people don't give a shit about quality anymore- it's all about quantity. Physical media is dying. Suck it up. It's the record industry's own fuckin' fault they couldn't keep up with the internet.

[Nutrocker]

Now...in relation to the topic at hand, I'd advocate avoiding the New Orleans '73 and Baton Rouge '75 soundboards and get the audience recordings instead. Waaaaaay superior, in my not so humble opinion...

[tom kid]

^ Are there any matrixes out there of either show? I find it strange considering how good the recordings are. I haven't come across any, just the version of New Orleans '73 that patches the gaps in the SBD with the excellent audience source.

[Nutrocker]

^ Are there any matrixes out there of either show? I find it strange considering how good the recordings are. I haven't come across any, just the version of New Orleans '73 that patches the gaps in the SBD with the excellent audience source.

Morning, Tom...sometimes I hate being a fucking insomniac

As far as the NOLA '73 goes, people were on Andy Winston's (of Winston Remasters fame) case to do a matrix. He refused, mainly due to all the bad blood that surfaced when Freezer's audience tapes popped up. As I recall he did do the patching, though- I think...all the details are in the epic "Freezer's Revenge" discussion at the Den. If you're not a member there, you owe it to yourself to join up and read that fucking thing someday. Very illuminating discussion indeed

Now, the '75 Baton Rouge show...wow. There's a bunch of taper friendly traders -Grateful Dead and Allman Bros mainly- who have this collective known as "M.O.T.B." -what that acronym stands for eludes me at the moment ("Mouth Of The Beast" or some such pretentious bullshit). Anyway, those dudes have a major hard-on against Freezer; again, it all hearkens back to the "Freezer's Revenge" debacle. Mainly, they want his Dead and ABB recordings; he told them to go fuck themselves, since Freezer has no time for non-taping traders. Still, these MOTB assholes think they're hot shit (they come across as a bunch of wannabe audiophile elitists not unlike our buddy Ledboots ); when the Baton Rouge SBD came out, they did a deliberately bad, out of sync matrix just to try and make Freezer's recording look bad. They even edited out the whistle blasts...an unconcionable thing! (What's a Freezer recording without the noisemakers?!). Anyway, another big hullabaloo broke out at both the Den and Dime over this crappy matrix...and that's when the infamous "12th Gen" version of the audience tape popped up, which, whatever tape generation it is, blows away every other version of the audience tapes and the soundboard. Point being, this matrix they made was meant as a joke, not only failed miserably, but got us a superior version of the show!

[tom kid]

Morning, Tom...sometimes I hate being a fucking insomniac

As far as the NOLA '73 goes, people were on Andy Winston's (of Winston Remasters fame) case to do a matrix. He refused, mainly due to all the bad blood that surfaced when Freezer's audience tapes popped up. As I recall he did do the patching, though- I think...all the details are in the epic "Freezer's Revenge" discussion at the Den. If you're not a member there, you owe it to yourself to join up and read that fucking thing someday. Very illuminating discussion indeed

Now, the '75 Baton Rouge show...wow. There's a bunch of taper friendly traders -Grateful Dead and Allman Bros mainly- who have this collective known as "M.O.T.B." -what that acronym stands for eludes me at the moment ("Mouth Of The Beast" or some such pretentious bullshit). Anyway, those dudes have a major hard-on against Freezer; again, it all hearkens back to the "Freezer's Revenge" debacle. Mainly, they want his Dead and ABB recordings; he told them to go fuck themselves, since Freezer has no time for non-taping traders. Still, these MOTB assholes think they're hot shit (they come across as a bunch of wannabe audiophile elitists not unlike our buddy Ledboots ); when the Baton Rouge SBD came out, they did a deliberately bad, out of sync matrix just to try and make Freezer's recording look bad. They even edited out the whistle blasts...an unconcionable thing! (What's a Freezer recording without the noisemakers?!). Anyway, another big hullabaloo broke out at both the Den and Dime over this crappy matrix...and that's when the infamous "12th Gen" version of the audience tape popped up, which, whatever tape generation it is, blows away every other version of the audience tapes and the soundboard. Point being, this matrix they made was meant as a joke, not only failed miserably, but got us a superior version of the show!

Yeah I've heard about the debacle over at the the traders den. I was a member there years ago, back when I first got into downloading boots but I have since found torrents to be quite annoying as more often than not there aren't enough seeds. Probably don't remember my login though.

God I wish all of these traders didn't have to be such little kids about it, all they're doing is getting in the way of releases of shows. Freezer has a tape of the Baton Rouge '77 show right? If only these dickheads didn't create so much bullshit we might have heard that show by now. I read that (probably one of your posts in fact) that he was going to release it until someone got wind of it and blurted it out on the net, so he canned it. Audiophiles are the worst, they seem to think that the fact someone is listening to mp3's somehow affects them. I didn't like his comments about my age either really...

This doesn't have anything to do with the rest of the post but I tried to send you a pm earlier asking if you had msn messenger or something similar so we could chat somewhere other than this site, but it wouldn't send. Any chance you could flick me one?

Morning eh? It's 10:40 pm on this side of the globe haha.

[downtime672]

Is It Really a crime agianst nature to convert Flac to MP3?Sorry Im guilty I like to listen wnen I commute to work.Nothing like A 40 minute Dazed and Confused to kill a long ride.