Better than 1980 or 1977?

[Detigers09]

It's hard to believe that with only 18,000 seats available, there were many fans there that had seen Zeppelin before, but I just wanted to see if there was anyone out there. 1977 and 1980 (excluding 1979) are often regarded as the worst touring years of the band. I can't really tell how the band sounded on Monday based on the sound quality of the videos out right now, but did the band blow you off your feet as much as (or more than) they did in 1980 or 1977? I obviously didn't expect them to be as good as the 72, 73, or even 75 tours, but I just wanted to know where the quality of the reunion show was in the grand scheme of things.

[shoobah]

It's hard to believe that with only 18,000 seats available, there were many fans there that had seen Zeppelin before, but I just wanted to see if there was anyone out there. 1977 and 1980 (excluding 1979) are often regarded as the worst touring years of the band. I can't really tell how the band sounded on Monday based on the sound quality of the videos out right now, but did the band blow you off your feet as much as (or more than) they did in 1980 or 1977? I obviously didn't expect them to be as good as the 72, 73, or even 75 tours, but I just wanted to know where the quality of the reunion show was in the grand scheme of things.

I thought they were better than they were at Knebworth, but maybe not as good as at Earls Court. But it's impossible to compare, really. It's a different time, a different frame of mind: for the band and their audience. I think the fact that certain band members are in a healthier state of mind now is a big point in their favour. That wasn't quite the case in '79 or, by all accounts, '77 either.

[bigstickbonzo]

Page didn't get lost in the middle of his solos ala 1980 this time around.

[Rainsong07]

I have an excellent SB recording of the Copenhagen show from the 1980 tour. The audio is great on my recording. And they sound better on all of the cell phone videos on YT. By better I mean how good Jimmy is playing & Robert is singing. He sounded like it was a bigger effort to sing in 1980 than on Monday night. JPJ always sounds great. Same w/ Bonzo. But Jimmy & Robert are much better than that 1980 recording IMO.

Thanks, Steve

[wep363]

I saw them in 77 and have seen clips of nearly all of the songs at 02. There is NO comparison. No 30 minute moby dick, and no extended jams, just studio songs. You can Never bring back the improvisational jams of page, jones and bonham back in the day. It would be nice to get another studio album and a supporting tour?

[NickZepp]

It's a lot better than 77. It's a little better than 80. Knebworth 8-4 and the Copenhagen warm-ups are very comparable. But I would say this was better. The drugs obviously hurt Page a lot more then. Now everyone is clearer and healthier. Even JPJ. Plant's voice is even better than it was in that era.

[Rock Action]

Knebworth 8-4-79 and Copenhagen 7-24-79 were quite a bit better. As far as the 1977 shows, it depended on which one you saw. You'll never beat 6-21/23 1977 ever. Go listen to "Listen To This Eddie", or "For Badgeholders Only". Incredible shows, never to be beaten.

But this is 30 years later. Let's be fair. I thought they were GREAT for not playing together for a long time. Honestly, comparisons are unfair when it's been 27 years since they played a full show as Zep.

I sure wish I had been there!

[greenman]

I saw them in 77 and have seen clips of nearly all of the songs at 02. There is NO comparison. No 30 minute moby dick, and no extended jams, just studio songs. You can Never bring back the improvisational jams of page, jones and bonham back in the day. It would be nice to get another studio album and a supporting tour?

While ther may not have been any espeically lenghty improv the clips I'v seen do hint that the classic "tight but loose" jamming sound was at least partly recaptured, something which the P&P shows failed to do IMHO.

[ZosoZosoZosoZoso]

Listen to the show, listen to the show, listen to the show!

12.10 is very very very good, they were trying oh so hard to get it perfect and it shows.

Bravo to them, Jason is a rightful member of the band, no offense to John.

[Jonesy]

I might take 80 just to have the elder bonham... but the energy from these clips seem to be genuine and I'd be very happy with it... for sure. I think it says a LOT about this 02 show that we're even able to slightly put one against the other... thats pretty good.

[Iriquidian]

Knebworth 8-4-79 and Copenhagen 7-24-79 were quite a bit better. As far as the 1977 shows, it depended on which one you saw. You'll never beat 6-21/23 1977 ever. Go listen to "Listen To This Eddie", or "For Badgeholders Only". Incredible shows, never to be beaten.

But this is 30 years later. Let's be fair. I thought they were GREAT for not playing together for a long time. Honestly, comparisons are unfair when it's been 27 years since they played a full show as Zep.

I sure wish I had been there!

finally..............a true 1977 fan that understands***

[Rock Action]

finally..............a true 1977 fan that understands***

I LOVED the performances of that tour. My favorite versions of No Quarter ever.

Plus some powerful versions of Ten Years Gone, Achilles Last Stand, Over The Hills & Far Away...

[bigstickbonzo]

I've always liked some shows from the 77 tour.

However, the 77 tour was also the first tour in which Pagey's creative mind during his soloing started to become hindered because of his substance abuse. He still gave it his all every night, but the consistency that he showed in the early days was no longer there.

[Rock Action]

I've always liked some shows from the 77 tour.

However, the 77 tour was also the first tour in which Pagey's creative mind during his soloing started to become hindered because of his substance abuse. He still gave it his all every night, but the consistency that he showed in the early days was no longer there.

I have to agree there. But when Jimmy was ON--oh fucking hell, he was on FIRE!!!!

The band was tight and loose in every way that year. Just a huge party for all.

[NickZepp]

77 is by far the worst Zeppelin tour. The LA shows are good, and a couple are great. But overall it's a bad tour.

[percy the gardner]

I have an excellent SB recording of the Copenhagen show from the 1980 tour. The audio is great on my recording. And they sound better on all of the cell phone videos on YT. By better I mean how good Jimmy is playing & Robert is singing. He sounded like it was a bigger effort to sing in 1980 than on Monday night. JPJ always sounds great. Same w/ Bonzo. But Jimmy & Robert are much better than that 1980 recording IMO.

Thanks, Steve

That's interesting, because they didn't play in Copenhagen in 1980. Ok you've got one of the 1979 Falkoner theater tapes, shows which were considered small catastrophes at the time, but I have enjoyed listening to. I think the idea of 1977 and 1980 tours being "not good" is due to a couple of popular bootlegs and a few "cold" sounding unmixed SB tapes. I much prefer the audience tapes, and both tours have some fantastic shows, LA and "Listen to this Eddie" is a great example, and the early shows from the 1980 tour are simply great IMO. I enjoy even the later ones although many of those shows included some chaotic moments (like Zürich where Kashmir falls apart, but then they end the show with a fantastic Heartbreaker) with one of the band members not paying enough attention, but they sure were trying out new things all the time.

The things to me that made this (O2) show interesting were "Good Times, Bad Times" and "For Your Life" both of which sounded exciting IMO. And Jason was obviously excited, the band had rehearsed well and there was a good overall vibe...they could read each other's thoughts well enough to really play as the tightest group on the planet.

But yes, of course it is "different". Only JPJ seems very much the same as in 1980! In a positive way that is, Robert is more "matured" but I find that positive as well, I think he enjoyed singing Stairway more than in 1980...maybe that's just me, but he sounded less reserved and the dedication to Ahmet seemed very sincere. I think he isn't ashamed of his own lyrics anymore and can see it as a song that is very emotioal and an anthem to so many people.

For me the sad thing is that I have never experienced them live, JP solo in 1988 in London and Plant's various solo bands many times. All of those gigs I have enjoyed very much, but not as much as the hundreds of LZ live recordings through the headphones!

Cheers, Percy

[bbking]

The O2 show was not better than any "Led Zeppelin" show because it wasn't Led Zeppeiln.

(With the exceptions of Tampa 77 germany 80 and Chicago 75.)

Because there was NO JOHN Bonham. Simple as that.

If George Harrison were alive and the "Beatles" reformed with Julian Lennon...

it would NOT be the Beatles.

I would say its more appropriate to compare the 02 show to "Page and Plant"

or "Page+Crows" gigs and previous "reunions". That said...I think most "Page and Plant"

shows were "better".

But not "Led Zeppelin", because the 02 show could only be deemed "better" then the VERY WORST shows of their 11 year career.

One should compare it to their BEST shows...that will tell you where its really at.

Most Zeppelin fans compare EVERY other band in history to Zep in their prime...

Why not Zep 2.0 to the Original Led Zeppelin? At the very least we should hold our heros

to THE SAME standard to which we hold EVERYONE else. No?

And I dont care how "old" they are.

Plenty of musicians retained their "chops" well into their 70's and beyond.

[wep363]

I am happy with the effort and the quality of the 02 show. Here is the song list from the show i saw in 77:

04/30/1977 Pontiac Silverdome, Pontiac, Michigan

Swan Song inside White Summer !

1. The Song Remains The Same

2. The Rover (intro) / Sick Again

3. Nobody's Fault But Mine

4. In My Time Of Dying

5. Since I've Been Loving You

6. No Quarter

7. Ten Years Gone

8. The Battle Of Evermore

9. Going To California

10. Black Country Woman

11. Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp

12. White Summer

13. Black Mountain Side

14. Kashmir

15. Out On The Tiles / Moby Dick

16. Guitar Solo / Achilles Last Stand

17. Stairway To Heaven

18. Rock And Roll

19. Trampled Underfoot

It was a four hour set and every song ran into the other with two or three breaks. Iit was a record concert as the largest indoor crowd. NO warm up bands, and the level of Improvisation WAS BEYOND BELIEF! None of us are the same as 1977. In some ways Jimmy is better and some he is worse. If OJ was to take a snap he would be done after one play. I'm happy with whatever the boys care to give us, but plant and page did nothing for me! JPJ is the most underated bass keyboard player alive!!! And John Bonham is the best to ever pick up the sticks! I would love to see a new zeppelin album but how do you compare coda to Led Zepplin 4?

[Blackdog1971]

The O2 show was not better than any "Led Zeppelin" show because it wasn't Led Zeppeiln.

(With the exceptions of Tampa 77 germany 80 and Chicago 75.)

Because there was NO JOHN Bonham. Simple as that.

If George Harrison were alive and the "Beatles" reformed with Julian Lennon...

it would NOT be the Beatles.

I would say its more appropriate to compare the 02 show to "Page and Plant"

or "Page+Crows" gigs and previous "reunions". That said...I think most "Page and Plant"

shows were "better".

But not "Led Zeppelin", because the 02 show could only be deemed "better" then the VERY WORST shows of their 11 year career.

One should compare it to their BEST shows...that will tell you where its really at.

Most Zeppelin fans compare EVERY other band in history to Zep in their prime...

Why not Zep 2.0 to the Original Led Zeppelin? At the very least we should hold our heros

to THE SAME standard to which we hold EVERYONE else. No?

And I dont care how "old" they are.

Plenty of musicians retained their "chops" well into their 70's and beyond.

So you want to compare the O2 show to Page and the Crowes? That sounds like a good comparison!

I was there Monday night and it was Led Zeppelin. Who are you to say it wasn't them. If Page, Plant and Jones say it was Led Zeppelin than it is. Sounds like some people are envious because they couldn't be at the show. Then they have to make comments like this to let everyone know its not Led Zeppelin. Your also comparing one show to a whole Page/Plant tour? I'm sure Led Zeppelin would get even better with a few more shows under their belt.

Many bands have lost a member by death or by the person leaving the band. Would you say the Rolling Stones are not the Rolling Stones because Mick Taylor replaced Brian Jones in 1969? I know, you know better than Mick Jagger and Keith Richards. Its not for you to say it is the original band or not. Unless your in the band, you have no right to make a statement like that. Ahmet Ertegun announced them as Led Zeppelin in 1988 as well. I guess one of the greatest music men in history is wrong also. I think we should leave it to the band members on what they want to call themselves.

[bbking]

Of course they can call it what they want..who said THEY couldnt?

I SAY it is NOT led zeppelin, because... I can call it whatever I want.

One show does not make a band.

The Stones NEVER stopped...never stopped touring...never stopped recording

they never STOPPED BEING a band.

The WHO...they were always PETE TOWNSHENDS band, a good 90%

all the songs...all the lyrics.

Zeppelin was a collective.

LED ZEPPELIN Died in 1980.

so sure THEY can call it Led Zeppelin....it isnt. Not to me.

and I have THAT right.

If YOU want to "think" of them Led Zeppelin..fine by me...go ahead.

They should just call it Zeppelin.

Like the Grateful Dead just called themselves "the dead" after garcia died.

[Rainsong07]

That's interesting, because they didn't play in Copenhagen in 1980. Ok you've got one of the 1979 Falkoner theater tapes, shows which were considered small catastrophes at the time, but I have enjoyed listening to. I think the idea of 1977 and 1980 tours being "not good" is due to a couple of popular bootlegs and a few "cold" sounding unmixed SB tapes. I much prefer the audience tapes, and both tours have some fantastic shows, LA and "Listen to this Eddie" is a great example, and the early shows from the 1980 tour are simply great IMO. I enjoy even the later ones although many of those shows included some chaotic moments (like Zürich where Kashmir falls apart, but then they end the show with a fantastic Heartbreaker) with one of the band members not paying enough attention, but they sure were trying out new things all the time.

The things to me that made this (O2) show interesting were "Good Times, Bad Times" and "For Your Life" both of which sounded exciting IMO. And Jason was obviously excited, the band had rehearsed well and there was a good overall vibe...they could read each other's thoughts well enough to really play as the tightest group on the planet.

But yes, of course it is "different". Only JPJ seems very much the same as in 1980! In a positive way that is, Robert is more "matured" but I find that positive as well, I think he enjoyed singing Stairway more than in 1980...maybe that's just me, but he sounded less reserved and the dedication to Ahmet seemed very sincere. I think he isn't ashamed of his own lyrics anymore and can see it as a song that is very emotioal and an anthem to so many people.

For me the sad thing is that I have never experienced them live, JP solo in 1988 in London and Plant's various solo bands many times. All of those gigs I have enjoyed very much, but not as much as the hundreds of LZ live recordings through the headphones!

Cheers, Percy

My mistake, I meant to say the Zurich, Switzerland show on June 29, 1980. I confused it with the Copenhagen show I have of Queen. Anyway, the Zurich is a SB show & sounds great.

[gazz]

I get so sick of people cutting down the 77 tour. This tour included material from Physical Graffitti-in my opinion one of their best albums. Dont forget that Kashmir was on that album! And In My Time of Dying and so many great songs. Perhaps they could do a show down the road to equal their old ones. But Ill take 3 1/2 hrs of Led Zeppelin over 2 hrs of Led Zeppelin any day of the week. And Ill take a Jimmy Page with all of his fingers in tact over one that has a bad finger-even though he played great. Not to mention a group that had a few concerts under their belt also.

Erm....they played all that stuff on the 75 tour, too.

And whathas the material on an albumreleaesed 2 years earlier got to do with their performance on tour in 77?