Remembering JFK, this week the 50th anniversary of a dark day

[Strider]

At 12:53am. EST at the end of a very long day, David Brinkley of NBC News did a masterful and poignant summing up of the horrific events of November 22, 1963, just before signing off for the night.

[the chase]

that is a ridiculous statement, imho.

twat, wacko, weirdo, jerk, idiot ...... all the same.

i for one do not say that the victims of 9/11 were murdered by their own country, but i do question some of the things that happened that day, and so do lots of the victims families and rescuers. i feel to not look into the discrepancies further, is to dishonour them.

and lets get back on topic.

Sorry .... not even close to being the same. ebk is a good honest, poster, a fellow New Englander and I won't sit here and watch someone call her something so nasty.... no way.

Thanks Strider.. i was offline visiting my great nephew Jack who was born today...

I agree Rick. You started this as a nice thread with the best intentions..

[slave to zep]

Sorry .... not even close to being the same. ebk is a good honest, poster, a fellow New Englander and I won't sit here and watch someone call her something so nasty.... no way.

Thanks Strider.. i was offline visiting my great nephew Jack who was born today...

I agree Rick. You started this as a nice thread with the best intentions..

i agree ebk is a lovely member.

i agree also that she shouldnt be called a twat.

i was just meaning that wacko is just as bad imo.

and yes, also agree about derailing the thread.

[Psychedelic]

Calling someone 'wacko' isn't quite as harsh as calling them a 'twat'.

And if one wants to dishonour the victims of 9/11 by saying they were murdered by their own country, well, I as an American, am definitely going to take issue with that.

Maybe you should look again at how the towers fall instead of judging opinion based on emotion or other weak reasoning. I guess il link a video to prove this, as these buildings fall you can see there is no resistence underneath at all, a clear inidicator that nothing below was intack at that point, and all at once i might add. Number 2 the fires that supposedly cause them to collapse are never even seen...they dont exist....The planes hit the buildings a fireball ensues then 5 seconds later smoke is seen thereafter till they fall. NOW if you know anything about fire which i sure hope you do. You know that a clear sign of a fire starved of oxygen is smoke! So whatever little fire inside there that we can't see apparently eats away at every steel beam and support and boom they go down. Just watch and use some critical thinking

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGAofwkAOlo

[Disco Duck]

Actually, the "accidentally shot by Hickey" theory isn't that current...it's been around since at least the 80s and Bonar Menninger wrote a book about it in 1992 called "MORTAL ERROR: The Shot That Killed JFK". The theory didn't hold much water and was fairly easy to debunk, which is one reason the book never gained much traction.

But, like Dracula, conspiracy theories are hard to kill and it's only because people have been bringing it up lately here on the forum that I mentioned it and the accompanying article.

I highly suggest people, conspiracy minded or not, read Gerald Posner's "Case Closed".

By the way, did anyone watch Nova's Cold Case special on JFK that aired on PBS?

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/tech/cold-case-jfk.html

Case Closed is an excellent book. Posner really did his research; he even interviewed former KGB agents. On the 20th anniversary of JFK's assassination, PBS broadcast an excellent documentary, Years of Lightning, Day of Drums. Did anyone else see it?

[pottedplant]

This is the last paragraph of the speech that JFK was to have given in Dallas. He has the eloquence of Lincoln.

We, in this country, in this generation, are — by destiny rather than by choice — the watchmen on the walls of world freedom. We ask, therefore, that we may be worthy of our power and responsibility, that we may exercise our strength with wisdom and restraint, and that we may achieve in our time and for all time the ancient vision of “peace on earth, good will toward men.” That must always be our goal, and the righteousness of our cause must always underlie our strength. For as was written long ago: “except the Lord keep the city, the watchmen waketh but in vain.”

[the chase]

Aside from the assassination, a great man died for no reason. A great woman was put through alot of trauma and so was the whole Kennedy family. And an entire nation and world that loved him. Sure there are some that will criticize him. Let them do it. But please do it somewhere else on another day. None of his actions were worthy of his fate. He died for this country. He fought for this country in the Navy. Honor him for he deserved it.

Nice post Rick..

[the chase]

This is the last paragraph of the speech that JFK was to have given in Dallas. He has the eloquence of Lincoln.

We, in this country, in this generation, are — by destiny rather than by choice — the watchmen on the walls of world freedom. We ask, therefore, that we may be worthy of our power and responsibility, that we may exercise our strength with wisdom and restraint, and that we may achieve in our time and for all time the ancient vision of “peace on earth, good will toward men.” That must always be our goal, and the righteousness of our cause must always underlie our strength. For as was written long ago: “except the Lord keep the city, the watchmen waketh but in vain.”

... and I wish he could have made this speech..

[Bong-Man]

Released on this very day 50 years ago in the U.K. (but not in the U.S.)...The Beatles second album "With the Beatles".

Hard to imagine such happiness exploding into the world on the same day as JFK's murder.

Always appreciated the theory that the initial wave of Beatlemania in America was made more intense by the assassination of JFK. Not taking away from their talent, and I'm sure they would have made a big splash anyway, but an entire generation of young people needed to embrace and claim something as their own....a distraction for themselves and the media. Their invasion of America couldn't have been timed more perfect in that sense.

[planted]

Its not a theory you ignorant twat. Thats why its still an issue, were not talking about area 51 and aliens so fack off

Whoa! Keep that filth in your own home where it seems to be the norm.

You don't speak to ebk like that, you got that?

[Strider]

I found this very touching.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/11/21/3394441/memories-of-jfk-and-a-teens-promise.html

[LedZeppfan77]

I found this very touching.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2013/11/21/3394441/memories-of-jfk-and-a-teens-promise.html

This had such an effect on so many people. It was one of the saddest days ever. There was so much promise and hope with John and Jackie and it was taken away by the act of a loser and I do not think America ever recovered from it even to this day. i know it will always be a terrible tragedy that will stay with me forever. But we have to remember the good things about them and how they gave the country a spirit and hope like no other president and first lady.

[ally]

Its not a theory you ignorant twat. Thats why its still an issue, were not talking about area 51 and aliens so fack off

Disagree with her if you wish but, don't call my friend that ! She's anything but and you have no right treating her or anyone else on this forum, like a piece of garbage. Learn a little respect or...go drop another hit of Orange Sunshine and leave !

[Strider]

November 24, 1963...11:21 a.m. CST. Jack Ruby shoots Lee Harvey Oswald as the Dallas Police are escorting Oswald out. This happens on live television...probably the very first instance of a murder taking place as millions watch it happen on tv.

Conspiracy theories were bound to happen with Kennedy's assassination anyway, but in my opinion, the killing of Oswald was the Rosetta Stone of the whole nightmare weekend. Without a chance of a trial and to hear from Lee Harvey Oswald himself, the country never got a real chance of closure. Too many questions were left unanswered and probably unknowable for the rest of time.

This kick-started the rumour mill in overdrive and led to the conspiracy theory industry that has thrived on the Kennedy assassination for decades.

One such conspiracy has it that Jack Ruby was hired by the Mob to kill Oswald to keep him from talking. There are two problems with that theory.

1. Jack Ruby was not the kind of guy you would entrust with such an important and covert act. Ruby was a talker, a guy who couldn't keep his mouth shut...he couldn't keep a secret for five minutes.

2. A gun shot to the stomach does not ensure a kill. That's why most mob executions are done to the head. Ruby would have shot Oswald in the head if this was a mob hit, as he would have been instructed to...just like Michael Corleone was in "The Godfather".

[LedZeppfan77]

Nice post Rick..

Thanks Chase. Ally, you should have reported that guy for that kind of crap. I created this thread out of respect for JFK and Jackie. If someone does not like it, they should just stay away.

[Disco Duck]

November 24, 1963...11:21 a.m. CST. Jack Ruby shoots Lee Harvey Oswald as the Dallas Police are escorting Oswald out. This happens on live television...probably the very first instance of a murder taking place as millions watch it happen on tv.

Conspiracy theories were bound to happen with Kennedy's assassination anyway, but in my opinion, the killing of Oswald was the Rosetta Stone of the whole nightmare weekend. Without a chance of a trial and to hear from Lee Harvey Oswald himself, the country never got a real chance of closure. Too many questions were left unanswered and probably unknowable for the rest of time.

This kick-started the rumour mill in overdrive and led to the conspiracy theory industry that has thrived on the Kennedy assassination for decades.

One such conspiracy has it that Jack Ruby was hired by the Mob to kill Oswald to keep him from talking. There are two problems with that theory.

1. Jack Ruby was not the kind of guy you would entrust with such an important and covert act. Ruby was a talker, a guy who couldn't keep his mouth shut...he couldn't keep a secret for five minutes.

2. A gun shot to the stomach does not ensure a kill. That's why most mob executions are done to the head. Ruby would have shot Oswald in the head if this was a mob hit, as he would have been instructed to...just like Michael Corleone was in "The Godfather".

Excellent post.

[Strider]

Sunday afternoon of November 24, 1963. While the NFL played their games, the body of JFK was being prepared to make its way from the White House to the Capitol Rotunda, where it would 'Lie In State', and Oswald was about to be transferred from Dallas Police to the County Jail. This is from CBS's coverage beginning at 12:07 p.m. EST that day 50 years ago.

Walter Cronkite going over the Oswald shooting.

[LedZeppfan77]

Sunday afternoon of November 24, 1963, while the NFL played their games, the body of JFK was being prepared to make its way from the White House to the Capitol Rotunda, where it would 'Lie In State', and Oswald was about to be transferred from Dallas Police to the County Jail. This is from CBS's coverage beginning at 12 noon that day 50 years ago.

Walter Cronkite going over the Oswald shooting.

Good point about the mob execution. And it was just plain stupid of Rozelle not to cancel the games. I think Ruby did us a service shooing that bastard and saving us having to listen to his bullshit

[Strider]

Good point about the mob execution. And it was just plain stupid of Rozelle not to cancel the games. I think Ruby did us a service shooing that bastard and saving us having to listen to his bullshit

I believe the AFL, NHL and NBA all cancelled their games on Sunday, leaving the NFL as the only sport to go on as scheduled. Back in those days, no NHL games were ever played on Friday, so there were no games scheduled on the day of JFK's assassination. But I think the NBA and NHL games scheduled for Saturday the 23rd still were played...I'm trying to confirm that as soon as I can(I'm stuck at work today).

[LedZeppfan77]

I believe the AFL, NHL and NBA all cancelled their games on Sunday, leaving the NFL as the only sport to go on as scheduled. Back in those days, no NHL games were ever played on Friday, so there were no games scheduled on the day of JFK's assassination. But I think the NBA and NHL games scheduled for Saturday the 23rd still were played...I'm trying to confirm that as soon as I can(I'm stuck at work today).

As Pete Rozelle said many times before he passed away, he always regretted that decision. I think he felt that John would have wanted them to play and not let this loser have an impact on our lives. But there was no way that was going to be the case. John was a huge football fan himself. He met Roger Staubach at the Army/Navy game and of course JFK was a big Navy guy. Hard to believe Navy was once number two in the nation. Back in the old days Army and Navy had some real good teams. It was a different era, age and country back then. After World War II ended and the Axis powers fell, their was a feeling of invincibility among Americans in many ways. The 1960's changed that in a hurry. Assassinations to JFK, RFK, Martin Luther King, the Vietnam war, watergate, and that was it. The one real bright spot was the moon walk in 1969. And if not for JFK it would never have happened. Many books have been written and I am sure more will follow. Though he and Jackie are gone they will never be forgotten.

[redrum]

I recently found out that JFK was a lifetime NRA member. He commented on his membership this way:

'I am pleased to accept Life Membership in The National Rifle Association and extend to to your organization every good wish for continued success. Through competitive matches and sports coordination with the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, the Association fills an important role in our national defense effort, and fosters in an active and meaningful fashion the spirit of the Minutemen. By calling attention to a well-regulated militia, the security of the nation, and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of government tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains a major declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important.'

Take that Biden, Bloomberg, Schumer, Feinstein & company.

[DropDown]

I recently found out that JFK was a lifetime NRA member. He commented on his membership this way: 'I am pleased to accept Life Membership in The National Rifle Association and extend to to your organization every good wish for continued success. Through competitive matches and sports coordination with the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle Practice, the Association fills an important role in our national defense effort, and fosters in an active and meaningful fashion the spirit of the Minutemen. By calling attention to a well-regulated militia, the security of the nation, and the right of each citizen to keep and bear arms, our founding fathers recognized the essentially civilian nature of our economy. Although it is extremely unlikely that the fears of government tyranny which gave rise to the Second Amendment will ever be a danger to our nation, the Amendment still remains a major declaration of our basic civilian-military relationships, in which every citizen must be ready to participate in the defense of his country. For that reason, I believe the Second Amendment will always be important.' Take that Biden, Bloomberg, Schumer, Feinstein & company.

And especially Kirsten Gillibrand, who before becoming a senator had a high NRA rating until she turned her back on them "because she didn't want to alienate a large part of her constituency" (ergo: NYC). I have both her and Schumer as my senators...oh the joy!

[Strider]

November 24, 1963. Sunday evening at 10:00 pm EST, CBS airs a special report "One Sunday in November":

[LedZeppfan77]

November 24, 1963. Sunday evening at 10:00 pm EST, CBS airs a special report "One Sunday in November":

Absolute bedlam. Look at the ambulance of the day. . The one reporter was so shook up he callled Oswald Lee Harold. I heard an interview with a reporter earlier in the week that was asked to help remove Oswald's body from the car for the burial. I think there may have been 3 people there. Its incredible that all this is on film. Thanks to the steady hand of the late Abraham Zepruder and you would have thought Oswald may have been under heavier guard only for the reason to get to the bottom of it. But Jack Ruby did his part in forever sealing the mystery, though I do believe he did it out of hate for Oswald and admiration of Jackie. I just watched Kerry add fuel to the fire saying he believes there was a conspiracy. Two other reporters went at it, one saying there is absolute proof that the fatal shot came from the front and could not have come from the 6th floor of the book depository. That is a very interesting question. If it is true, it does proove that another gun was fired. Whether it was an accidental shot from a negligent CIA agent, forever tarnished by all of this or something far more sinister, someone laying in the grassy knoll. So on the conspiracy fires burn like the eternal flame. Will we ever know? I guess its right there with Jack the Ripper, Jon Bonet, the Zodiac, Dahlia and others.

[SteveAJones]

But Jack Ruby did his part in forever sealing the mystery, though I do believe he did it out of hate for Oswald and admiration of Jackie.

Jack Ruby was within close firing range of Oswald a few times while Oswald was in custody but didn't take a shot. Jack's brother said what ultimately prompted Jack to shoot Oswald was the rage he felt when he saw that smirk on Oswald's face as they were walking him out. I'll take his brother's word for it, seeing as he often went to visit Jack while he was incarcerated.