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porgie66

Auction of Bonham's Black Diamond Ludwig kit from 68/69

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5 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Not to me.  The hoops in the Marquee pics are definitely Slingerland round over style, not Ludwig. Also the lugs in the B and W Marquee picture are clearly more rounded, Slingerland. Those are definitely not Ludwig lugs.  The color pic shows the bass drum spurs which are much different than the Luddy's , there are two larger spurs... the Ludwig has 4 smaller spurs. The color pic also looks like green sparkle which would be consistent with other descriptions of the Slingerland kit. Again, I wish there was just one clear pic of Bonham's drums from this time. 

We agree to disagree.

 

Note that in the A Thunder of Drums book, the other kits that Bonham owned nowhere is a Slingerland kit listed. I believe the kit was rented for the first tour before recording LZ I. Given that the Marquee gig is local (within England) Bonzo probably used his own kit.  

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28 minutes ago, sixpense said:

We agree to disagree.

 

Note that in the A Thunder of Drums book, the other kits that Bonham owned nowhere is a Slingerland kit listed. I believe the kit was rented for the first tour before recording LZ I. Given that the Marquee gig is local (within England) Bonzo probably used his own kit.  

That book is not gospel, no book is. The story about Bonzo playing a Green Sparkle Ludwig kit comes from a musicians memory in that book if I'm not mistaken. Someone he played with in the way Of Life or Band Of Joy or whatever. That person's memory may be wrong, it could be in fact he was playing the Slingerland green sparkle back then and they thought it was a Ludwig kit. Who knows, maybe he had Ludwig and Slingerland green kits??   You disagree and that's fine, but in those pics from the Marquee club he's clearly playing a Slingerland kit.  I pointed out the distinctive features, the 'setomatic' spurs, the rounded hoops, the lugs, the greenish sparkle color. I doubt that was a rental and if it was then it was rented until Dec of 68 when they played the Marquee. The main question I raised here is anyway is who made the claim that this BDP kit was used for Led Zep 4?  That seems to be an important claim given the provenance...it seems specious to me. 

Edited by porgie66

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If you're a drummer, you'll notice...the tom mount in this photo from the Marquee gig is a Roger's Swiv-o-matic, not Slingerland. So the mount is actually different than the one on the Scandinavian gigs. I bet he owned that kit, and swapped out the original tom mount for the Rogers . He seems to have preferred Roger's hardware. He used their stands, and he used a Swivo mount on the maple tom eventually.  Clearly the Ludwig BDP kit Plant is standing over does not have a swivo mount. That is not this kit.

1968-marquee-cl-02.jpg.bbc33c1821753476345fc7219ab9aca6.jpg

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On 9/13/2017 at 0:21 AM, porgie66 said:

Maybe but the 13 tom would look smaller on a 24. That's most likely the kit in the pics with Plant that will be auctioned, which looks to me like a 22. 

I think your right after a second look. . 

Edited by Bozoso73

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Tried to find another larger scan of the Marquee photo. Best one I could find was from Led Zeppelin: The Concert File by Dave Lewis.

I scanned the image. Then took the image and removed the red/orange to take a closer look at the logo behind Jimmy's knee. I zoomed in on the image to see the black shadow (which is the logo) and it does't appear to be a "d". The upper stem of the letter is not showing as black there. (Lead me to believe it is a "g".)

 

 

Image (244).jpg

Marquee Adjusted.jpg

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Hey, I hear they are auctioning off a set of Jimmy's underwear from the first tour of England back in 68'. The auction description says they are Fruit of the Loom however four groupies and a proctologist all swear Jimmy exclusively wore BVD's. 

Anyone with inside info? Anyone?

Edited by IpMan

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On 9/13/2017 at 6:49 PM, porgie66 said:

That book is not gospel, no book is. The story about Bonzo playing a Green Sparkle Ludwig kit comes from a musicians memory in that book if I'm not mistaken. Someone he played with in the way Of Life or Band Of Joy or whatever. That person's memory may be wrong, it could be in fact he was playing the Slingerland green sparkle back then and they thought it was a Ludwig kit. Who knows, maybe he had Ludwig and Slingerland green kits??   You disagree and that's fine, but in those pics from the Marquee club he's clearly playing a Slingerland kit.  I pointed out the distinctive features, the 'setomatic' spurs, the rounded hoops, the lugs, the greenish sparkle color. I doubt that was a rental and if it was then it was rented until Dec of 68 when they played the Marquee. The main question I raised here is anyway is who made the claim that this BDP kit was used for Led Zep 4?  That seems to be an important claim given the provenance...it seems specious to me. 

I never claimed it was gospel. unfortunately, it is the only publication out there with documentation. ( Welsh actually talks to Dave Peg (bass player from A Way of Life) Bonzo's Drum tech etc including specifics as to how many springs were on the snare and at what time) (Dave Peg states that Bonzo was using a green sparkle Ludwig in the Band)

It is your opinion about it being "clear"  that the Marquee gig is a Slingerland. I don't share that opinion. The lugs size alone doesn't match the Slingerland.

The book doesn't mention anywhere Bonzo owning a Slingerland. It does mention him owning s few Gretsch kits. I believe one can be seen in the recently uncovered 1968 promo for Babe I'm Gonna Leave You.

Not the John Bonham bible or encyclopedia but a fair representation of Bonzo's equipment. The bottom line to the book was Bonzo was a Ludwig player all the way. 

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9 minutes ago, sixpense said:

I never claimed it was gospel. unfortunately, it is the only publication out there with documentation. ( Welsh actually talks to Dave Peg (bass player from A Way of Life) Bonzo's Drum tech etc including specifics as to how many springs were on the snare and at what time) (Dave Peg states that Bonzo was using a green sparkle Ludwig in the Band)

It is your opinion about it being "clear"  that the Marquee gig is a Slingerland. I don't share that opinion. The lugs size alone doesn't match the Slingerland.

The book doesn't mention anywhere Bonzo owning a Slingerland. It does mention him owning s few Gretsch kits. I believe one can be seen in the recently uncovered 1968 promo for Babe I'm Gonna Leave You.

Not the John Bonham bible or encyclopedia but a fair representation of Bonzo's equipment. The bottom line to the book was Bonzo was a Ludwig player all the way. 

Good grief, I give up.

I still want to know who made the statement that the BDP kit was used for the 4th album ? That kind of nerdy, drum geek lore is of interest to me. I know it rates lower than Fruit of the Loom vs BVDs for most. 🕵️

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4 hours ago, porgie66 said:

Good grief, I give up.

I still want to know who made the statement that the BDP kit was used for the 4th album ? That kind of nerdy, drum geek lore is of interest to me. I know it rates lower than Fruit of the Loom vs BVDs for most. 🕵️

Look you're both wrong! Anyone with an ounce of intelligence can pearly see he's playing a Bentley rhythm Ace

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Another thing: in the shot from behind, Bonham appears to be wearing a short-sleeved t shirt, and Page light colored pants. In the shot(s) from the front, Page is in a tan jacket and dark pants and Bonham looks to be wearing a long sleeved shirt. Different gigs at the Marquee perhaps?

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I'm with Porgie, the Marquee kit is definitely not a Ludwig, it looks like a Slingerland to me looking at the lugs & I've owned Ludwig & Slingerland kits from that era so have spent many hours looking at these things like a sad girfriendless odball.

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5 hours ago, Mook said:

I'm with Porgie, the Marquee kit is definitely not a Ludwig, it looks like a Slingerland to me looking at the lugs & I've owned Ludwig & Slingerland kits from that era so have spent many hours looking at these things like a sad girfriendless odball.

Ha! Who needs girlfriends when you're into drums. 

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7 hours ago, Bonzoleum said:

Another thing: in the shot from behind, Bonham appears to be wearing a short-sleeved t shirt, and Page light colored pants. In the shot(s) from the front, Page is in a tan jacket and dark pants and Bonham looks to be wearing a long sleeved shirt. Different gigs at the Marquee perhaps?

Yes, very astute observations on both  Marquee pics. The tom tom does look like a 12 in that pic from behind! That's a swivo holder too, which ain't on the BDP kit. That's a Slingerland all day long. Maybe another drummers kit or house kit at the club. 

Edited by porgie66

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On 9/15/2017 at 0:31 PM, porgie66 said:

Ha! Who needs girlfriends when you're into drums. 

LOL +1 

Edited by Bozoso73

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Since it appears the JB Memorial Fund has raised enough funds for the monument/statue then I assume this kit doesn't need to be auctioned for that purpose. If £ 50,000 was the goal then this drumset's auction would very likely come close or exceed that mark. Since the memorial was meant to be a tribute by Bonzo's home town , that would also negate the grass roots sourcing of the funds. I still find this photo shoot with Plant and the statement about the kit being used for Zep 4 as being very odd. 

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I'm 100 percent sure that the kit pictured below is a Slingerland. The photo is a little blurry but the lugs look they could be Slingerland. But the dead give away is the bass drum spurs. Those are 100 percent with out a doubt Slingerland bass drum spurs. I bought a kit awhile back that was missing one and I've spent the better part of a year trying to find an affordable replacement. 

On 9/14/2017 at 3:57 PM, sixpense said:

Tried to find another larger scan of the Marquee photo. Best one I could find was from Led Zeppelin: The Concert File by Dave Lewis.

I scanned the image. Then took the image and removed the red/orange to take a closer look at the logo behind Jimmy's knee. I zoomed in on the image to see the black shadow (which is the logo) and it does't appear to be a "d". The upper stem of the letter is not showing as black there. (Lead me to believe it is a "g".)

 

 

Image (244).jpg

Marquee Adjusted.jpg

 

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34 minutes ago, bizz said:

I'm 100 percent sure that the kit pictured below is a Slingerland. The photo is a little blurry but the lugs look they could be Slingerland. But the dead give away is the bass drum spurs. Those are 100 percent with out a doubt Slingerland bass drum spurs. I bought a kit awhile back that was missing one and I've spent the better part of a year trying to find an affordable replacement. 

 

Yep

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The bdp kit sizes are: 13" rack tom, 16&18" floor toms&24" kick drum,

The snare's a 20s or 30s Ludwig 10 lug NOB (nickel over brass) possibly a Duplex or Pioneer model,

Even a Black Beauty ,

Cymbals combination of GB & 602,Promuco 5B sticks,

Ludwig Wearhermaster or Remo coated Ambassadors & Emperors.BTW/FYI Zepp 1 was recorded using his green sparkle Slingerland .As it was Jim McCarthy's kit ( Yardbirds) as Peter Grant inherited/kept the Yardbirds equipment as part of contract when they broke/split up, ended&finished.Debate rages as too whether or not he used Paiste or Zildjians on Zepp1.

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4 hours ago, AussieOzzieZeppfan said:

BTW / FYI Zepp 1 was recorded using his green sparkle Slingerland .As it was Jim McCarthy's kit ( Yardbirds) as Peter Grant inherited/kept the Yardbirds equipment as part of contract when they broke/split up, ended&finished.Debate rages as too whether or not he used Paiste or Zildjians on Zepp1.

 

Interesting that Bonzo didn't bring a kit with him when Zep started. Presumably then when he was playing with Tim Rose the kit was rented?

Edited by 76229

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13 hours ago, AussieOzzieZeppfan said:

The bdp kit sizes are: 13" rack tom, 16&18" floor toms&24" kick drum,

The snare's a 20s or 30s Ludwig 10 lug NOB (nickel over brass) possibly a Duplex or Pioneer model,

Even a Black Beauty ,

Cymbals combination of GB & 602,Promuco 5B sticks,

Ludwig Wearhermaster or Remo coated Ambassadors & Emperors.BTW/FYI Zepp 1 was recorded using his green sparkle Slingerland .As it was Jim McCarthy's kit ( Yardbirds) as Peter Grant inherited/kept the Yardbirds equipment as part of contract when they broke/split up, ended&finished.Debate rages as too whether or not he used Paiste or Zildjians on Zepp1.

There is no question in my mind that the kit in those pics from the Marquee is a Slingerland, but where did you get the info that he used it to record the first album? Did you read it in a book? I never saw any reference to Zep using Yardbirds equipment early on, but I may have forgotten that from some biography of the band. 

 

Also, that BDP kit pictured with Plant has a matching wood snare, not an old metal drum. The bass drum most certainly looks like a 22 , not a 24, and both floor toms look like they are 16s, no 18. I own a 24, 13,16 Luddy kit and the bass drum definitely looks bigger in contrast with the 13 Tom.  That kit Plant is standing behind doesn't seem to be the BDP kit you're describing. Gotta be different. 

Edited by porgie66

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On 10/21/2017 at 2:15 AM, AussieOzzieZeppfan said:

The bdp kit sizes are: 13" rack tom, 16&18" floor toms&24" kick drum,

The snare's a 20s or 30s Ludwig 10 lug NOB (nickel over brass) possibly a Duplex or Pioneer model,

Even a Black Beauty ,

Cymbals combination of GB & 602,Promuco 5B sticks,

Ludwig Wearhermaster or Remo coated Ambassadors & Emperors.BTW/FYI Zepp 1 was recorded using his green sparkle Slingerland .As it was Jim McCarthy's kit ( Yardbirds) as Peter Grant inherited/kept the Yardbirds equipment as part of contract when they broke/split up, ended&finished.Debate rages as too whether or not he used Paiste or Zildjians on Zepp1.

What is your source regarding the Slingerland kit being used to record the first album??

Edited by porgie66

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Well I don't know that much about Bonham's drums, I know which he used on certain tours and some of the songs, but fans that know this in detail are going to create a bit of problem for the auction success, if you don't provide photos of Bonzo playing it, but with Plant standing next to it and the whole thing being so well intended, I don't think anyone would be so desperate in any way to just make up information like this. But being used on Levee certainly makes it more interesting for an auction, so who knows. It's a private project I think, so getting as much money as possible is desired.

Important thing is, if someone wants to put up a statue like this for someone like Bonham, eventually nothing will really stop him, so why make up information like this? Maybe you should just wait for the government to erect it or something.   

It is weird though, because even if they are sort of stories, what was used on Levee are such well known anecdotes its hard to go past them. So there you go.

As long as sixpense doesn't start it's actually a drum machine, because Levee is really hard to play at times, it's alright.

Edited by SamoKodela

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I've read it in both books from reliable sources& in forums, RP owns the Slingerland kit which was (is?), a green sparkle 22 13 16,

The snare is a Ludwig LM 400 14X5" aluminum,

Until THE definitive book on ALL of Zepps recordings with both documentation & photos comes out I.e. Beatles & Stones recording books.All with got to go on as far as what he played on Zepp 1 is both conjecture & speculative & have to agree to disagree I've also read from Freddie Struder from Paiste that Bonzo visited the Paiste factory in late 60s so either 68 or 69.

 

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