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Posted

Have been watching this well done series by Ken Burns. I think if you are older, this is a must watch show. They show some horrific footage, never seen before, as well as people from both sides in Vietnam. The media coverage back then from what I can remember was just propaganda mostly, it's a shame how slanted this was. A senseless war that the US should have not been involved in, way too many people from both sides died for no good reason. Some great music is used, helps lighten it up a bit. Don't miss this !!!

Posted

...I know it's received it's share of criticism, but I found the series VERY educational.  I had no idea that the war (at least when France was involved) had started so early.  I was surprised the Mai Lai massacre didn't get more coverage.  Back in the day, THAT one event and the subsequent photos was what turned peoples opinions in my school!

Posted

The only people criticizing are the fools that still think something was winnable 40 years later.  The thing that blows me away that I wasn't aware of before was how much of this war was actually fought on South Vietnamese soil.  Also Nixon's attempts to contact the South Vietnamese gov't before the 1968 election.  Telling them behind Johnson's back to not come to the peace talks at Paris because he would give them a better deal.  Then he had the balls to call Johnson and lie through his teeth about the whole adventure.  As Johnson pointed out to him, we call that treason.  Ring a bell ?

I was only 8, but I remember sitting in the family room watching Johnson announce on tv that he would not be seeking a second term.  That was huge.   

Posted (edited)

I've watched the first two episodes on The BBC, there's a Viet Cong guy talking about killing in such a blase manner he looks as though he'd kill you as soon as look at you, chilling..

Edited by JTM
Posted

Definitely must-see tv. But in counter to The Rover 75's assertion, I believe it is even more imperative for young people to watch this. 

If you are older, you lived through this war or studied it in school. I knew about Nixon's meddling in the 1968 peace process since the 1980s and we learned about the French beginnings of the war in high school history class.

But school nowadays is worthless. Kids are history deficient, unless they take the initiative to study on their own. I met a teenager from Knoxville, TN last week who thought WW II was in the 1960s and that Jim Crow laws freed the slaves. 😮

Everyone should watch this documentary but they should make it mandatory viewing in all high schools.

Posted

I was very young when this was going on, so it really sheds light on many things. I became friends yrs later with a couple of guys who actually went there & survived it, the stories they would tell, would make your skin crawl.

My wife is a teacher, so I wouldn't say school is worthless, but that is a different discussion.

I rarely get moved by much on tv, but that's just me, however I have to tell you, the episode where the POW's were released & coming home is really something. Their accounts of how they felt, as well as the footage that was available, was one of those moments that was really touching, in many ways.

 

Posted
5 minutes ago, redrum said:

Old Jane was just having a whale of a time over there.

Always takin' the piss, eh? Come on red, you're a student of history, you know as well as anyone that of all the things about the Vietnam War, Jane Fonda is barely a footnote.

7 minutes ago, redrum said:

The war was a mistake, period.

No mistake about it...and the treatment of the Vietnam Vets afterwards.

Posted

The first episode was IMO possibly the best episode. It showed that we (or anyone else involved) lost the war before it even began. The Viet Mihn already had the support of both the north and south long before the US showed up. Then, to make us look like complete and total assholes we supported Diem, a Catholic butcher in a Buddhist  country whose first order of business was to suppress the Buddhists!

The US adherence to the long failed and moronic Truman Doctrine made Dr. Strangelove look sane by comparison. The fact that 99.999% of Americans have no idea that Ho Chi Minh was a socialist-nationalist, not a communist, is inexcusable. Minh only turned to the Chinese and Russians after Truman told him to piss off. Truman was without a doubt a very bad President, too bad Dewey did not defeat him in 48'. The Truman Doctrine is still influencing policy to this day but now we have the even better War on Terror, a war which our own government says will go on for perhaps a century. Good God, another Hundred Years War.

Will we ever learn a damn thing from our past? Who knows, maybe the middle east will be just like Vietnam after a century of war...another westernized economic colony of the US.

Fucking pathetic.

 

Posted
13 hours ago, Strider said:

Always takin' the piss, eh? Come on red, you're a student of history, you know as well as anyone that of all the things about the Vietnam War, Jane Fonda is barely a footnote.

No mistake about it...and the treatment of the Vietnam Vets afterwards.

The difference is she has to live with it. She was young and dumb like so many others. I'm just glad my brother and two nephews made it back alive.

The show on the medevacs afterwards was great.

Posted
21 hours ago, Strider said:

But school nowadays is worthless. Kids are history deficient, unless they take the initiative to study on their own. I met a teenager from Knoxville, TN last week who thought WW II was in the 1960s and that Jim Crow laws freed the slaves. 

Ask him how many combat missions the Tuskegee Airmen flew.

11 hours ago, IpMan said:

Will we ever learn a damn thing from our past? Who knows, maybe the middle east will be just like Vietnam after a century of war...another westernized economic colony of the US.

Huh? The Middle East already is, isn't it? I mean, were it not for Standard Oil and oil in general they wouldn't have a pot to piss in. Vietnam doesn't have that problem. The only thing Vietnam has going for it is beautiful women.

Posted
3 minutes ago, SteveAJones said:

Ask him how many combat missions the Tuskegee Airmen flew.

Huh? The Middle East already is, isn't it? I mean, were it not for Standard Oil and oil in general they wouldn't have a pot to piss in. Vietnam doesn't have that problem. The only thing Vietnam has going for it is beautiful women.

The middle eastern nations who caved to US & British interests have always done well. The nations which did not and chose to nationalize their oil such as Iran became the victims of US backed coup's. Other nations such as Iraq & Afgahnistan become places of perpetual war on "terror" which the US and its policies created.

Vietnam is now a thriving economy due to capitalistic influence beginning in the early 90's. So, just like Ho Chi Minh stated in 1945, his revolution was not a communist one but a nationalistic one to make an independent Vietnam. Barely 15 years of quasi-communist rule in Vietnam until capitalism began to take over. So much for the Truman Doctrine, so much for the moronic Domino Theory. If any of these political idgits would have simply talked to a single social psychologist in 1945...or even read Marx The Communist Manifesto they would have understood that communist or even a socialistic-dictatorship system was doomed to failure due to one inescapable factor...human greed. The human race has not evolved beyond simple selfishness thus these systems cannot succeed over the long term. After all, the longest socialistic-dictatorship was the Soviet Union which lasted a paltry 53 years before it imploded. China began capitalistic reforms in the 70's, less than 25 years after the glorious communist revolution.

The real irony is that many Vietnam vets have returned to live out their lives in Vietnam. I have three friends who served in country who all now live full time in Vietnam and according to them the country has a hell of a lot more going for it than simply beautiful women. Most likely due to the fact that it has enjoyed one of the worlds fastest and strongest economic growth patterns for the past 27 years and counting, averaging almost 7% gdp growth per year.

Posted

It's been more than 40 years....I wonder if the Vietnamese people are starting to erect any statues in honor of their former South Vietnamese leaders.  After all, it is their heritage.  

 

Posted
59 minutes ago, IpMan said:

The real irony is that many Vietnam vets have returned to live out their lives in Vietnam. I have three friends who served in country who all now live full time in Vietnam and according to them the country has a hell of a lot more going for it than simply beautiful women. Most likely due to the fact that it has enjoyed one of the worlds fastest and strongest economic growth patterns for the past 27 years and counting, averaging almost 7% gdp growth per year.

Good for them.

29 minutes ago, Bong-Man said:

It's been more than 40 years....I wonder if the Vietnamese people are starting to erect any statues in honor of their former South Vietnamese leaders.  After all, it is their heritage.  

The history of Vietnam dates back to 20,000 BC. I wonder if they have groups of minority parasites insisting on reparations and equal outcomes on account of any and all transgressions along the way.

Posted

It was nice to finally hear some Zep in the soundtrack.  I don't think I've heard "Dazed & Confused" used during war footage before.  Also noticed in the credits the song was written by James Patrick Page exclusively.  No mention of Jake.  Imagine serving in Vietnam and having Zep I hit your ears for the first time.  Was wondering why they weren't using Neil's "Ohio" during Kent State.  No sooner thought that and they used it for the closing credits of that episode a couple minutes later.  Catching up....too much football.  

Posted
8 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

 

The history of Vietnam dates back to 20,000 BC. I wonder if they have groups of minority parasites insisting on reparations and equal outcomes on account of any and all transgressions along the way.

On this we can both agree, after all, those minority parasite catholics under Diem persecuted the Buddhist majority for years. I doubt though that those catholics will get either reparations or statues anytime soon.

Posted
On 9/29/2017 at 6:44 PM, IpMan said:

On this we can both agree, after all, those minority parasite catholics under Diem persecuted the Buddhist majority for years. I doubt though that those catholics will get either reparations or statues anytime soon.

The catholics will get hell in a hand basket for their transgressions.

Funny how it worked out that the people now love (most) Americans. We watched 'Travels With My Father' with Jack Whitehall and they went to Hanoi and it looked like a happening city. I doubt if I ever will, but I'd really like to visit Vietnam. I know a girl named Thu who visits her family there all the time.

Posted
4 hours ago, redrum said:

The catholics will get hell in a hand basket for their transgressions.

Funny how it worked out that the people now love (most) Americans. We watched 'Travels With My Father' with Jack Whitehall and they went to Hanoi and it looked like a happening city. I doubt if I ever will, but I'd really like to visit Vietnam. I know a girl named Thu who visits her family there all the time.

Believe me, when my friend who fought in Vietnam, 67'-68' told me he bought 10 acres of land and had a 3,000 sq ft house built on it in Vietnam...total cost $52,000 and was moving there I just about shit. He then told me several of his buddies he served with did the same thing as well as many more. My friend said the country of Vietnam is a damn paradise, and the people have no issue with Americans, they actually like us. However I still found it weird because of what he experienced. My friend said he left a piece of himself there and never felt right living back in America, that he felt all kinds of emotions including a strong sense of guilt which he no longer has since he has called Vietnam home. The real kicker is his best friend is a former NVA soldier.

This just blows my mind.

Posted
2 hours ago, IpMan said:

Believe me, when my friend who fought in Vietnam, 67'-68' told me he bought 10 acres of land and had a 3,000 sq ft house built on it in Vietnam...total cost $52,000 and was moving there I just about shit. He then told me several of his buddies he served with did the same thing as well as many more. My friend said the country of Vietnam is a damn paradise, and the people have no issue with Americans, they actually like us. However I still found it weird because of what he experienced. My friend said he left a piece of himself there and never felt right living back in America, that he felt all kinds of emotions including a strong sense of guilt which he no longer has since he has called Vietnam home. The real kicker is his best friend is a former NVA soldier.

This just blows my mind.

That really is something and more power to them.

Here's my brother (on the right w-cap) with his buds at Cu-Chi in 1966.

LARRY & FRIENDS-NAM.JPG

Posted
22 hours ago, redrum said:

That really is something and more power to them.

Here's my brother (on the right w-cap) with his buds at Cu-Chi in 1966.

LARRY & FRIENDS-NAM.JPG

Damn fine looking group, doing the best they can. America's finest without a doubt Red.

Posted
1 hour ago, IpMan said:

Damn fine looking group, doing the best they can. America's finest without a doubt Red.

I agree. Just all American kids. My brother was 22.

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