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NealR2000

Backstage arguments?

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2 hours ago, NealR2000 said:

There was definitely a big difference in Page between the P&P 95 and 98 tours.  In the former, Page was still drinking, evident by that bloated puffy look. By the latter tour, he looked much healthier, not to mention playing sharper (and doing all the guitar work alone).

You reckon? He’d stacked the weight on by 98. His playing was great though 

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3 hours ago, Mook said:

I think a lot of it was late 60s macho, showing off, especially live. Most rock drummers were at it then.

There's an interview with one of Bonham's old bandmates in a book I've got, he says Bonham turned up at his house with a copy of the first album & when he played it, the other guy said to him, 'Where are all your fills, John?". When you look back on that album now, it's pretty heavy on the fills as well, so you can only imagine what Bonham's playing was like in the mid 60s.

Mac Poole. He said Bonzo told him "I couldn't do anything man, Jimmy wanted it kept simple".

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You mean, Plant actually smacked him, like physically? As in, he took his hand and slapped it up side Jimmy's face leaving a red mark?

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35 minutes ago, Christopher Lees said:

You mean, Plant actually smacked him, like physically? As in, he took his hand and slapped it up side Jimmy's face leaving a red mark?

Yes physically.

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10 hours ago, Christopher Lees said:

You mean, Plant actually smacked him, like physically? As in, he took his hand and slapped it up side Jimmy's face leaving a red mark?

 Someone saying "I smacked him one" means they got a punch, same with " I gave him a slap" that's a punch too. 

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6 hours ago, Christopher Lees said:

Where can I read about this?

Robert slapped Jimmy across the face backstage before the show that night. There were very few bystanders so you won't find much about it on public forums and nothing in the press.

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6 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Robert slapped Jimmy across the face backstage before the show that night. There were very few bystanders so you won't find much about it on public forums and nothing in the press.

Then how do we know it’s true and not just a rumor?

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Robert slapped Jimmy across the face backstage before the show that night. There were very few bystanders so you won't find much about it on public forums and nothing in the press.

Too bad this happened in 95' instead of 2015, then we would have had it on video, been on the news cycle for a week, and have every late night host goofing on it, including slow-mo footage with sound effects.

Though I can imagine old Robert slapping Jimmy upside the guliver and exclaiming, "Jesus Christ mate, get yer shite together, your 51 not 21 ya silly twat. Next time I will replace your ass with Buckethead you drunkie bastard!"

Edited by PeaceFrogYum

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3 hours ago, PeaceFrogYum said:

Too bad this happened in 95' instead of 2015, then we would have had it on video, been on the news cycle for a week, and have every late night host goofing on it, including slow-mo footage with sound effects.

Though I can imagine old Robert slapping Jimmy upside the guliver and exclaiming, "Jesus Christ mate, get yer shite together, your 51 not 21 ya silly twat. Next time I will replace your ass with Buckethead you drunkie bastard!"

That'd sound even better and funnier in Noddy Holder's voice.

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I saw a NJ show very close to the "Slap Show" and on the radio in fact the slap was noted as a punch, who knows. I really think

musically there was little or no argument live or in the studio, simply because all members were so close in ability. Although

JPJ had counseled Jimmy a few times that 2 parts of a song played simultaneously wouldn't work. Still, it seemed a mild yet

informative matter, no freaking out. But I do think that somewhere before 77' Robert was getting aggravated about Jimmy's

Drug use and how it affected the live shows. What's funny/terrible ?? is that I can't believe that today any guitarist in a famous

band playing like Jimmy did would be tolerated by the music press without serious criticism. Don't say, oh, the seventies, Johnny Winter, Eric Clapton, Keith Richards and many others totally kept up despite serious drug/alcohol addictions.

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On ‎3‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 3:51 AM, Christopher Lees said:

Then how do we know it’s true and not just a rumor?

There were witnesses.

10 hours ago, Christopher Lees said:

Where is the evidence that Plant smacked Jimmy?

Is there evidence, or is it just gossip?

See above. What you do with the information is entirely up to you.

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Actually, this thread is ideal to raise a point I've been considering for awhile now.

Who would you take in a Jason Bonham vs. James Dylan backstage brawl?

Dylan's got the height and reach advantage but Bonham's got the build.

My hunch is Dylan gets in three or four shots before they grapple and fall.

Bonham wins in the ensuing ground and pound. 

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5 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

There were witnesses.

See above. What you do with the information is entirely up to you.

How do you know? Where can I read about these eyewitness accounts?

Or is it just gossip?

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Well I would listen to Steve anyway, but a friend who knew Jason Bonham's guitarist said that for that 95'/96' unledded

trek Jimmy and Robert were basically clawing at each other almost daily. Supposedly Jimmy was drinking heavily for at

least the first leg of the US tour, possibly later as well. Also Plant said "I'd like to wake up in the morning and play tennis",

whereas "Jimmy wanted to stay up all nite". I'm not sure how much of this was partying and how much was really bad

stagefright. I understand Robert for sure, but alcohol or not Jimmy played most shows very well, IMHO better than the last

TOE, and much more consistent.

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Mithril46 said:

Well I would listen to Steve anyway, but a friend who knew Jason Bonham's guitarist said that for that 95'/96' unledded trek Jimmy and Robert were basically clawing at each other almost daily. Supposedly Jimmy was drinking heavily for at least the first leg of the US tour, possibly later as well. Also Plant said "I'd like to wake up in the morning and play tennis",

whereas "Jimmy wanted to stay up all nite". I'm not sure how much of this was partying and how much was really bad stagefright. I understand Robert for sure, but alcohol or not Jimmy played most shows very well, IMHO better than the last TOE, and much more consistent.

Just interested, is this summat you've specifically heard or speculation? I know Page had nerves before going on, even in Zeppelin days, but this is the first I've heard of it being that bad. Typical of such a perfectionist though.

Edit: Janine Safer (press wrangler on the '77 tour) said that one of her friends in PR or similar was working on the 95 P&P tour and "it was as much as she could do to stop them clawing each others eyes out".

Edited by 76229

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No speculation, as far as Plant and Page squaring off. One other thing I heard that Jimmy started his onstage persona not just

for showmanship, but to defuse his stage fright during the first few songs. Actually Jimmy said that, to jump around and play

at the same time, eventually kills the nerves. And also Page was very worried at Live Aid that he would forget or screw up

the chords in the songs. 2 out of the 3 songs were pretty easy, obviously. But if you're nervous enough, anything is up for grabs.

Non-artists will never understand some of the afflictions or conditions which plague the mega-talented.

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"Clawing each other's eyes out"? I can understand Robert being upset that Jimmy was showing up drunk, but what would Jimmy be upset with Robert about? That Robert was calling Jimmy out for his drunken behavior?

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2 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

Also Plant said "I'd like to wake up in the morning and play tennis",

whereas "Jimmy wanted to stay up all nite". I'm not sure how much of this was partying and how much was really bad

stagefright.

Are you talking about Jimmy having stage fright? I can't imagine it, after all the experience he's had on stage for so many decades. He's done it all so many times, and then some. Did you read something about Jimmy having stagefright? That would be so interesting to read about. It could be the case. I saw an interview with Johnny Carson once where he admitted to having stagefright the whole time. Every night when the Tonight Show theme song would play, with the introductions rolling and such, as the audience was waiting for Johnny to come out from behind that big curtain, he was back there with his knees knocking, and that was Johnny Carson!

 

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There is no logic to stage fright, regardless of talent, accomplishments, fan or critical praise etc..I also know this because I

have experienced stage fright. In my case(s) it didn't happen so much in bands tI was in.open mikes. Actually, there is good logical reason for nerves in that scenario, as you maybe playing songs you don't know with players you don't know. Jimmy

in fact, in Zep anyway, Jimmy not only mentioned live stage fright , but terrible studio nerves as well, saying "my bottle goes".

I don't remember what Zep book/article contains these statements, as I have at least 25 to 30 Zep books. One thing I've noticed

is the greater the music talent, usually the more difficult are most tasks which are easy for "normal" people.

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4 hours ago, Mithril46 said:

There is no logic to stage fright, regardless of talent, accomplishments, fan or critical praise etc..I also know this because I

have experienced stage fright. In my case(s) it didn't happen so much in bands tI was in.open mikes. Actually, there is good logical reason for nerves in that scenario, as you maybe playing songs you don't know with players you don't know. Jimmy

in fact, in Zep anyway, Jimmy not only mentioned live stage fright , but terrible studio nerves as well, saying "my bottle goes".

I don't remember what Zep book/article contains these statements, as I have at least 25 to 30 Zep books. One thing I've noticed

is the greater the music talent, usually the more difficult are most tasks which are easy for "normal" people.

Very interesting. I have a case of stage fright myself. I always figured that people like Jimmy and the rest of Zep, these people were just different than me. They're wired differently. Some people are introverts and others are extroverts, and it's all about different wiring. Watching TSRTS growing up, I just figured these people weren't afraid of the stage, just as some people are afraid of heights and others just aren't.

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Well, actually Jimmy had stage fright randomly or in chunks, it's not like he had it at every Zep show. But it's true, there's no

rhyme or reason with this stuff. Like the Atlantic Records 88' anniversary, Jimmy got so wound up that he himself said it affected his playing, the on/off argument with Robert about whether or not to play "Stairway". Also interesting is that Jimmy seemed to be either laid back, or pretty nervous, not too much middle ground.

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On 4/1/2019 at 2:11 AM, Mithril46 said:

Well, actually Jimmy had stage fright randomly or in chunks, it's not like he had it at every Zep show. But it's true, there's no

rhyme or reason with this stuff. Like the Atlantic Records 88' anniversary, Jimmy got so wound up that he himself said it affected his playing, the on/off argument with Robert about whether or not to play "Stairway". Also interesting is that Jimmy seemed to be either laid back, or pretty nervous, not too much middle ground.

Yes, that Atlantic Reunion didn't stand a chance.  Huge row over Stairway, as well as Zep getting delay after delay on a start time.  Nerves (for Page) were resolved with alcohol, and the additional time meant a lot more alcohol.  They were awful.  

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11 minutes ago, NealR2000 said:

Yes, that Atlantic Reunion didn't stand a chance.  Huge row over Stairway, as well as Zep getting delay after delay on a start time.  Nerves (for Page) were resolved with alcohol, and the additional time meant a lot more alcohol.  They were awful.  

No keyboards in the Televised mix for Kashmir didn't help much either.... Nor the fact the Robert's solo band played a super tight set.  

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