LedZeppfan77 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I heard on the radio today that fehr was demanding full salary pay for the players even if only 60 games were paid. I was about to flip shit, but further investigation shows that they just wanted the full pay structure set so they can determine how much to take off...that could've been bad. I'm praying for hockey in December. Same here but I just dont know with this Fehr. I cant stand him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I heard on the radio today that fehr was demanding full salary pay for the players even if only 60 games were paid. I was about to flip shit, but further investigation shows that they just wanted the full pay structure set so they can determine how much to take off...that could've been bad. I'm praying for hockey in December. I think the equation is pretty simple really. If the owners publically agree to no roll back in existing player salary then Fehr and the players agree to settle. If we have a shortened season, the owners will effectively have gotten their roll back on existing player salarys . Don't ya just love pr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I think the equation is pretty simple really. If the owners publically agree to no roll back in existing player salary then Fehr and the players agree to settle. If we have a shortened season, the owners will effectively have gotten their roll back on existing player salarys . Don't ya just love pr I dont even know if they actually met on Saturday? Its all hush hush. If the season is to be saved and they are to begin in early December, I would think this week they must come to an agreement. To entirely lose the season is just plain stupid on both sides. They are screwing themselves and the fans. And they could lose every single TV contract they had lined up. They NHL was doing great in attendance and popularity and then this. Know your fucking limits Mr Fehr. Know them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 I dont even know if they actually met on Saturday? Its all hush hush. If the season is to be saved and they are to begin in early December, I would think this week they must come to an agreement. To entirely lose the season is just plain stupid on both sides. They are screwing themselves and the fans. And they could lose every single TV contract they had lined up. They NHL was doing great in attendance and popularity and then this. Know your fucking limits Mr Fehr. Know them Like most fans, I'm fed up with the whole one step forward two steps back approach that these negotiations ( ? ) seem to be taking. It appears to me that the goal posts are being changed everytime the two sides get together and because of that, I'm no longer near as optimistic as I was about there being a 2012/13 season. People can say what they want about Fehr but the way I see it, the players have given the owners their 50/50 split on hockey related revenue which was the major concession the owners wanted. Those same owners then turned around and stated that they would not make whole all existing contracts signed prior the the expiration of the old CBA. Those would include the ones they agreed to as late as a week before the end of that CBA ! It begs the question, what else will the owners throw out there if the players agree to that demand ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Like most fans, I'm fed up with the whole one step forward two steps back approach that these negotiations ( ? ) seem to be taking. It appears to me that the goal posts are being changed everytime the two sides get together and because of that, I'm no longer near as optimistic as I was about there being a 2012/13 season. People can say what they want about Fehr but the way I see it, the players have given the owners their 50/50 split on hockey related revenue which was the major concession the owners wanted. Those same owners then turned around and stated that they would not make whole all existing contracts signed prior the the expiration of the old CBA. Those would include the ones they agreed to as late as a week before the end of that CBA ! It begs the question, what else will the owners throw out there if the players agree to that demand ? To be fair the owners have taken a big hit here as well. They will bend but not break. And if yoiu give someone an inch they will take a mile as the old saying goes. I think they should agree to what is agreed to and play the season and go back to the table for the issues they cannot agree on in the summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 To be fair the owners have taken a big hit here as well. They will bend but not break. And if yoiu give someone an inch they will take a mile as the old saying goes. I think they should agree to what is agreed to and play the season and go back to the table for the issues they cannot agree on in the summer. Everybody is losing because the season hasn't started but it doesn't look to me as if the owners have taken a hit in negotiations. As for playing and negotiating next summer, the owners don't want that. They want to settle before any hockey get's played. If I'm coming across as anti owner then let me just clarify that I'm not. I'm just commenting on what seems to be happening. Negotiations are almost always, in one shape or form, about compromise and to me at least, it looks as though the players have. They're the ones who agreed to take a 7% cut to reach the 50/50. The original proposal of 43% that the owners threw out there was always about getting to the 50/50 so there's no way the owners can say they took a hit. How can you take a negotiating hit on money you never had to begin with ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 11, 2012 Share Posted November 11, 2012 Everybody is losing because the season hasn't started but it doesn't look to me as if the owners have taken a hit in negotiations. As for playing and negotiating next summer, the owners don't want that. They want to settle before any hockey get's played. If I'm coming across as anti owner then let me just clarify that I'm not. I'm just commenting on what seems to be happening. Negotiations are almost always, in one shape or form, about compromise and to me at least, it looks as though the players have. They're the ones who agreed to take a 7% cut to reach the 50/50. The original proposal of 43% that the owners threw out there was always about getting to the 50/50 so there's no way the owners can say they took a hit. How can you take a negotiating hit on money you never had to begin with ? They are taking a tremendous multi million dollar revenue hit with every canceled game. No ticketts sold and in fact, they must now refund the money they had on seaaon ticket sales. In Buffalo they had pretty much sold out the entire season tickets. I know over 15,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 They are taking a tremendous multi million dollar revenue hit with every canceled game. No ticketts sold and in fact, they must now refund the money they had on seaaon ticket sales. In Buffalo they had pretty much sold out the entire season tickets. I know over 15,000. Their choice Rick. They went into these negotiations to play hardball and as far as I'm concerned, they've gotten exactly what they asked for. Yes, the fans are losing their entertainment and gambling but, as you've just stated, they are not losing their hard earned money . I'm sure that there'll be plenty of people who will disagree with my stance on this but I think it's time somebody...anybody FFS, stood up for their rights as an employee. Yeah, I'm sure people will see this dispute as millionares vs billionares and that everyone is just being greedy but I don't. What I see here is Bettman and his negotiating committee doing everything possible NOT to bargain in anything resembling .. good faith. Too much of that shit going on in this world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Their choice Rick. They went into these negotiations to play hardball and as far as I'm concerned, they've gotten exactly what they asked for. Yes, the fans are losing their entertainment and gambling but, as you've just stated, they are not losing their hard earned money . I'm sure that there'll be plenty of people who will disagree with my stance on this but I think it's time somebody...anybody FFS, stood up for their rights as an employee. Yeah, I'm sure people will see this dispute as millionares vs billionares and that everyone is just being greedy but I don't. What I see here is Bettman and his negotiating committee doing everything possible NOT to bargain in anything resembling .. good faith. Too much of that shit going on in this world Lets just say I partially agree with you. You have to understand the financial limitations here. And comparing it to other sports will not make things look any better. Athletes are far overpaid. :Lets face it. Millions of dollars to play a kids game. All sports. How much do they pay certain guys to throw one pitch for instance? Babe Ruth made the equivelant of a guy selling peanuts at a ball game nowdays in comparison to what they make now. Pretty sad. I believe there should be a cap on salaries in all sports and that the owners should have a top end number on how much they make. Once they hit that number, use the extra money to support players that can no longer play due to career ending injury or to deserving charities. Certainly they should be allowed to use it as a write off. . I know that sounds like a dream world and it is. A team that is in the red like the Jacksonville Jaguars and such, cannot afford to pay big salaries and will probably not survive. Look how long Atlanta survived in hockey. The southern states have always been a thorn in the side of our sport. They should not even be included in TV ratings concerning hockey because they mislead the public. The northeast, north central and western states are the life supply of hockey in america. In Canada there is no problem, its huge everywhere. I see two cities that seem to have problems selling out. Dallas and New Jersey for some reason. But pretty much every other rink is sold out nightly. I have Center Ice so I know. I watch games in all cities. And I am a hockey junkie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think the owners of any buisness should be able to make as much as they can. I don't see any reason why they should be capped. That being said, I think also it's reasonable that the NHL owners get their shit together before they approve of new franchises and quit asking the players and the fans to pay for their mistakes. That to me is corporate welfare and it's exactly why these negotiations have taken the shape they have. That being said, those franchises should be moved and the NHL ( Bettman ) should get out of the buisness of keeping those unsuccessful franchises a float . The Phoenix situation comes to mind and I have to say that it seems to me that the owners, at the expense of the players, are trying to use this set of negotiations to pay for that mistake . That being said Rick, I believe that the players would sign an agreement if they were assured that the 4% that they have to contribute to the joint Esgrow Fund, wouldn't be used by the owners to claim a HRR shortage because those same owners were propping up Phoenix and other losing franchises in the buisness. It makes absolutely no sense for the players or anyone for that matter to agree to that. In fact, if they did, they should have have their heads checked because effectively, they'd be making a guaranteed 11% concession from their original starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I think the owners of any buisness should be able to make as much as they can. I don't see any reason why they should be capped. That being said, I think also it's reasonable that the NHL owners get their shit together before they approve of new franchises and quit asking the players and the fans to pay for their mistakes. That to me is corporate welfare and it's exactly why these negotiations have taken the shape they have. That being said, those franchises should be moved and the NHL ( Bettman ) should get out of the buisness of keeping those unsuccessful franchises a float . The Phoenix situation comes to mind and I have to say that it seems to me that the owners, at the expense of the players, are trying to use this set of negotiations to pay for that mistake . That being said Rick, I believe that the players would sign an agreement if they were assured that the 4% that they have to contribute to the joint Esgrow Fund, wouldn't be used by the owners to claim a HRR shortage because those same owners were propping up Phoenix and other losing franchises in the buisness. It makes absolutely no sense for the players or anyone for that matter to agree to that. In fact, if they did, they should have have their heads checked because effectively, they'd be making a guaranteed 11% concession from their original starting point. You know it amazes me all the empty seats I see in Dallas and New Jersey. Two undeserving teams to win a Cup yet they each have won. Even though they fucking robbed my Sabres to get theirs in Dallas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 They have to either solve this this week or the season is probably over. I think they may come to some type of agreement. Its just unthinkable to imagine them not. I am waiting impatiently. If they agree to play, I order Center Ice. If they cancel the season, Ill get League Pass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepscoda Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 You know it amazes me all the empty seats I see in Dallas and New Jersey. Two undeserving teams to win a Cup yet they each have won. Even though they fucking robbed my Sabres to get theirs in Dallas Even though it was before I moved down here, I watched that entire game to see Zubov & Verbeak win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepscoda Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Toronto Sun reports : Crosby has so far avoided the temptation of jumping to Europe during the lockout but that could change soon, particularly if there is no glimmer of hope from negotiations this week. "I really want to be optimistic," he said. "It's not easy right now. It's just a roller coaster ... I don't know what's going to happen." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Toronto Sun reports : Crosby has so far avoided the temptation of jumping to Europe during the lockout but that could change soon, particularly if there is no glimmer of hope from negotiations this week. "I really want to be optimistic," he said. "It's not easy right now. It's just a roller coaster ... I don't know what's going to happen." The whole thing is a mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepscoda Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Steve Ott of Buffalo Sabres talks about NHL lockout while skating in Monday's Windsor Spitfires charity tournament. http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=mhee&v=6eXuDe4H3o4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It's just sad...sad all around. Not just from a fan's perspective but there are many ancillary businesses that depend on the NHL for business during the winter. The hotels, drivers, charter airplanes, Zamoni drivers, arena employees, concession food and beverage industries, uniform cleaners, and many more. Donald Fehr is a disease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1286783--nhl-lockout-messages-mixed-on-progress-in-labour-talks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It's just sad...sad all around. Not just from a fan's perspective but there are many ancillary businesses that depend on the NHL for business during the winter. The hotels, drivers, charter airplanes, Zamoni drivers, arena employees, concession food and beverage industries, uniform cleaners, and many more. Donald Fehr is a disease. I agree he is. Now a mediator is mentioned in Ally's news post. We know no more today than yesterday. I do not know how many important issues are holding things up? But they better move fast if they are to save the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ally Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I agree he is. Now a mediator is mentioned in Ally's news post. We know no more today than yesterday. I do not know how many important issues are holding things up? But they better move fast if they are to save the season. Not sure how accurate that news report is but , if mediation is seriously being considered, I can't see there being a season. Binding arbitration on the other hand....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 A friend called last night and says he got info from somene in the Rochester Americans camp (Sabres farm team here in case you do not know), that this thing is going to be settled by Sat and the season will begin in early Dec. Now I do not know how he can get info like this or how reliable it is? Or if its coming from someone close to the Sabres? I hope to hell he is right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Now one NHL official has said the NHL will make no further offers. At this point, looking at the loss's they know they will sustain, the players are in a dream world. The owners will win. they are going to lose alof of money, alot of fans. Fehr is a prick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcane29 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 A friend called last night and says he got info from somene in the Rochester Americans camp (Sabres farm team here in case you do not know), that this thing is going to be settled by Sat and the season will begin in early Dec. Now I do not know how he can get info like this or how reliable it is? Or if its coming from someone close to the Sabres? I hope to hell he is right I've heard this rumor as well, from someone I trust to be reliable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I've heard this rumor as well, from someone I trust to be reliable. I do not believe it now. I just read Daly has said "no more offers". It appears the season is in jeopardy. The Bleacher Report even has an arcticle asking if next season could be in jeopardy? Are they completely crazy? Do they think that they can go to this extreme? The players need to fire Fehr now and get something going. They are going to lose. They have already gotten the league and the owners to bend but not break. That is as good as it gets. Accept it and play the game and even if it means signing a one or two year deal and fighting out the other issues in the summer. But to cancel the entire season, is just too much to fathom. I buy Center ice every year. I am still waiting to see if the season will heppen? IF not, I may ge the NBA package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LedZeppfan77 Posted November 19, 2012 Share Posted November 19, 2012 NHLPA has requested the NHL to meet with them on monday, today. So either Fehr is ready to throw the towel in the ring or he is going to tell Bettman to stick it up his ass. I am hoping he throws the towel in and realizes he is not going to get the stars when they have offered him the sun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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