Spats' Loveblahblahblah Thread

[Dancin'Days]

and I CAN stand women bashing?

as for patronizing me - I was talking about your whole comment ... although I do remember when they handed me my degree someone winking and saying "hey we wont tell anyone you got through by reading one 'fucking (opinionated) book'"...

Who was bashing women?

As for my statement, I was replying to your reply, telling me to shut my trap if I don't know what I am talking about! So, what I always say, what goes around comes around.

[~tangerine~]

Kat, I think you are categorizing all men in that statement. I think that a woman should dress like a professional in the work place and not like a whore. If I were hiring a woman for the office, I would not hire one that came in looking like a tramp. I think women should respect their bodies, not like the teenagers these days, running around showing off everything they have. I am not a prude but, If I had a daughter I would not want her running around showing her ass crack and trying to show as much cleavage as can get away with.

This i totally agree with. It's a disgrace how women are still used, in 2009, as sex objects. Seems to me even more than ever before. Makes you wonder how far has women's lib brought us? I think society has led women to want to dress this way and act this way, and that is very sad. I pray my daughter won't turn out that way (if i have any control over things she won't).

[Dancin'Days]

This i totally agree with. It's a disgrace how women are still used, in 2009, as sex objects. Seems to me even more than ever before. Makes you wonder how far has women's lib brought us? I think society has led women to want to dress this way and act this way, and that is very sad. I pray my daughter won't turn out that way (if i have any control over things she won't).

I know, I see parents that don't care how their daughters dress and it makes me wonder what is wrong with society these days. It seems like there are no morals anymore.

[spats]

I know, I see parents that don't care how their daughters dress and it makes me wonder what is wrong with society these days. It seems like there are no morals anymore.

And daughters are more influenced by their mothers.

[spats]

Hmm I don't think you read what I wrote properly then... Because I was talking about The dating world in North America ... I was talking about a general attitude in our society...

I think it seems like you are playing some sort of 'how do I catch a pretty woman' game...

But she doesn't just have to be pretty she has to meet these standards that you have set in your head (unfair because how is she supposed to know that and even if she does why should she have to cater to them?)... As for paying and stuff that is a very tiny grain of an issue when it comes to equality in dating... Just say "look I can't afford to pay for everything but I would like to spend time with you". I mean she is a HUMAN BEING you don't have to beat around the bush. maybe if you have such a particular idea of what you want you should just say "I am looking for a woman who will pay for me at dinner, make the first move... do all the things that men do..." (by the way being equal doesn't mean acting like men... but I have already gone over that - you will have to read my post properly)

and anyway have you ever thought that you are setting a standard about yourself? As in you might not match her standards either ... so maybe you should just leave each other alone... If she eventually wants to have kids and settle down and you are dead set against it then neither of you are doing each other a favor for even starting anything... I mean women HAVE to have time off after the birth of children (something I have gone through especially if they breastfeed because workplaces wont have women with babies on their boobs) and in that time they have to rely on the man in their lives to support them - it is just a fact and you are already freaking out about money on the first few dates!!!

I MEAN that is a feminist issue RIGHT THERE! Women still HAVE TO rely on men in probably the most fragile stages of their lives... and if the man resents the woman for 'trapping him in to fatherhood' then how does that woman get by without the heartache of unreliable government systems that have been set up wholly because some men couldn't be trusted to pay money for their child's wellbeing... not to mention the well being of the woman who is now unemployable for maybe up to 6 years... and people ACTUALLY complain about paying... it's like 'DUDE - YOU LEFT IT IN TOO LONG'

anyway my suggestion is to deal with ANY issues you have about love, marriage, children, money, all of those things BEFORE you even think about getting into a 'relationship'. And then warn the person you want to screw before you do - because too many people waste their times in dead end relationships because they just don't have the same outlook...

But almost everyone has standards set in their head. Women have them too. And if the person does not meet them you won't hook up with them. That's how it works.

You can't be that bluntly honest on the dating scene like you are suggesting. And nobody is. Everyone says they want honesty but when it is dished out it's not taken well.

I am not saying that women should act like men. Just because i want women to do something that stereotypically men do does not mean i want them to act like men. If a guy changes his kids diapers does that mean he is acting like a woman? No.

I am "freaking out" on paying the first few dates with a woman who has not proven herself to me. Who i don't know whether i will be in a relationship with. I have no problem paying for actual girlfriends. But i am not blowing a lot of money on a woman if i don't know if we are going to be a couple or not. That would be a waste of money and time.

[spats]

No...I think she thinks at your age.... you should be mature and ask her out face to face like a man. I don't see why she would even want to talk to you now! Maybe you should write her a note and have her check Y if she likes you and N if she doesn't.

And she should have been mature enough to let me know she was interested. A guy shouldn't have to guess about this. Men don't leave women guessing. You can tell when a guy is interested in hooking up. With women it's like pulling teeth trying to figure out if they are interested or not. Just be honest about it. They should take a course on it or something.

[spats]

yeah I agree - I actually don't know any women who act the way these dudes are talking about... and I know A LOT of women and have lived in A LOT of places...

Well go out on the dating scene and you will see it everywhere.

[spats]

Pip, I am sorry if I hurt your feelings but I just can not stand men bashing on here, I get enough of that at home . If you feel the need to bash men please go to pet peeves or start a new thread.

As for the F word, I was not using it to patronize you, I was using it as an adjective which I do quite often.

Male bashing is very accepted in society. It's done on tv all the time. But if you have the nerve to point out women's faults you are called a woman hater.

[spats]

yeah I noticed that... it's like he didn't read half of the stuff I wrote... maybe he IS robot! hehe actually maybe he isn't a good reader... but he should practice... I have some suggestions in previous posts on what he should read... maybe he just didn't understand ... how old is he?

Actually I think if he just agreed and gave it all some thought he wouldn't have this huge thread and drama all to himself (I think he actually loves the drama - otherwise he wouldn't be going around in circles as much..) and people say WOMEN love drama pfft! as if! I don't know ANY woman in my acquaintance that loves real life drama!! do you? I have noticed quite a few very intelegent women on here actually trying to ease his drama for him and he wont take to it!! I also noticed that all the funny posts on this thread he ignores and only goes for the ones directly relating to him and the ones that cause the most drama...

so there is the conclusion

Spats is a Drama Queen ...

So you have never in your life known a girlfriend or a woman in general who has hooked up with a "Bad Boy". That has drama written all over it. And most women have hooked up with one at one point or another. It's like a right of passage or something.

I am trying to get things done with the least amount of drama. The advice i have been given by some of the ladies here has been for me to do EVERYTHING. The approaching, the asking out, the taking out, the paying, the asking out again. And let the women do nothing. Contribute nothing but just being there. How is that trying to ease the drama for me? That's making it all easier for the woman and harder for me.

[spats]

arrrggg! sorry just can't seem to drag myself away because you didn't get my point really... if you have this notion of 'us' and 'them' then you can't get equality. (I do have a notion of 'us' and 'them' myself but that is because I KNOW there isn't equality)

and half of my post was about women in our countries. The fact is that women aren't seen by society as equal... the backlash of feminism is that now men can get the best of both worlds and women still get second best... as in men get sexually liberated women but women get men who don't commit to relationships and who want them to change. So unless you have a holistic approach to feminism and equality then you are only asking women to be 'equal' for your own reasons. We can't just act more equal because worldwide it just isn't true - we just don't have equality.

we can't be seen as equal because we are still objectified on the largest of billboards, we still know by looking at other countries that one bad turn of government and we are the first to suffer (especially single mothers and women in highly religious areas - don't even get me started on that - I am sure that there are many religions governing the society of north America - well every religion has an idea about what women 'should be').

Feminism isn't about women wanting to be like men either ... it is about women wanting to be accepted as whatever we want to be - and any woman anywhere doesn't have that freedom now. I'm not talking jobs I AM talking dating world - even the woman you are trying it on with isn't being accepted by you because she has so-called typical feminine traits... IF she were to act more manly people would complain that she wasn't feminine enough...

look ... it sounds like you have an idea of what you want a woman to be and that instantly means that you just don't get it. Why should any woman have to live up to standards that they don't even know about in the first place (and that are unrealistic because they are made by an individual so wholly unconnected to them - I think I just quoted Jane Austen...)

also the fact that there is a post like this one means that you think you should be able to have a relationship with a woman - it isn't anything you said it is the action of writing about your trials and tribulations in the dating world - that is what tells me that you think you are owed a relationship - otherwise none of us would be here writing about it.

I am sorry man we started out so well but if you keep on with the delusion that you are 'for equality' without actually knowing anything about it and contradicting yourself in the process then maybe you SHOULD read a bit about it.

seriously I think it would really help you - if you want to support equality of women then you will have to get you some knowledge! hehe

every time you generalize about women you are offending me - in answer to that question.

SO if we are going to get on the right footing again (and so neither of us become as popular as a turd in a punch bowl) then you have to really think about how equal women are, how much more objectified we are in your own home town, your own feelings about how you WANT a woman to be - think about how that actually makes you not only negative about women but also unrealistic about people in general.

anyway...

who knows if you will take any of this in?! But I am sure that your primary problem in the dating world is your lack of knowledge ... maybe not just in this area ...

and seriously - show this woman you want to be with this WHOLE thread and see what she thinks about it... maybe she will answer some of your issues right then and there...

someone said before that you should be upfront and adult about stuff with her (the fact that you haven't been shows that you don't see her as an equal - more like an animal that has to be tricked and caught) I totally agree with who said that... like they said - being upfront isn't macho it is adult AND it is more respectful...

If the reason i am failing in the dating world is my lack of knowledge on women then tell me what it is i don't understand about women? I am being sincere.

[Virginia]

But almost everyone has standards set in their head. Women have them too. And if the person does not meet them you won't hook up with them. That's how it works.

You can't be that bluntly honest on the dating scene like you are suggesting. And nobody is. Everyone says they want honesty but when it is dished out it's not taken well.

I am not saying that women should act like men. Just because i want women to do something that stereotypically men do does not mean i want them to act like men. If a guy changes his kids diapers does that mean he is acting like a woman? No.

I am "freaking out" on paying the first few dates with a woman who has not proven herself to me. Who i don't know whether i will be in a relationship with. I have no problem paying for actual girlfriends. But i am not blowing a lot of money on a woman if i don't know if we are going to be a couple or not. That would be a waste of money and time.

That is absolutely ridiculous. That would be like wearing blue jeans to a job interview because you don't want to buy a suit in case you don't get the job. Some things you just DO because that's the way it's done in polite society. Society isn't going to change to accommodate your notions of how things should be.

[Virginia]

Male bashing is very accepted in society. It's done on tv all the time. But if you have the nerve to point out women's faults you are called a woman hater.

Actually I think most young men today are very considerate and do see women as equals, because that's how they have been raised.

So you have never in your life known a girlfriend or a woman in general who has hooked up with a "Bad Boy". That has drama written all over it. And most women have hooked up with one at one point or another. It's like a right of passage or something.

I am trying to get things done with the least amount of drama. The advice i have been given by some of the ladies here has been for me to do EVERYTHING. The approaching, the asking out, the taking out, the paying, the asking out again. And let the women do nothing. Contribute nothing but just being there. How is that trying to ease the drama for me? That's making it all easier for the woman and harder for me.

The opposite of a drama queen is a confident, centered, mature woman. And she is not going to date you. The confident, mature women here have already explained why.

Ed: crap, I got sucked in again

[spats]

Actually I think most young men today are very considerate and do see women as equals, because that's how they have been raised.

The opposite of a drama queen is a confident, centered, mature woman. And she is not going to date you. The confident, mature women here have already explained why.

Ed: crap, I got sucked in again

And i see women as equals. But it seems with all the women who think it's a man's duty to do this or that (askout, make the first move, propose marriage), they don't want it do be that way. Or they want things to be equal only in certain instances. Like paychecks,etc.

Well i don't think a confident, mature, centered woman would expect the man to do everything in the dating world. They would be doing it themselves like i have been saying they should.

[spats]

That is absolutely ridiculous. That would be like wearing blue jeans to a job interview because you don't want to buy a suit in case you don't get the job. Some things you just DO because that's the way it's done in polite society. Society isn't going to change to accommodate your notions of how things should be.

Do you think it's fair to compare the two things? They are two different things.

I am amazed how it's considered so bad by some to split the bill.

If i pay for a woman on a date or more than one date and then she decides that she does not want to become my girlfriend then i see that as i have been made a fool of and used. But if you split the bill and that happens then no one is harmed and there are no bad feelings.

[Katuschka]

And daughters are more influenced by their mothers.

Like when? Now more than before? That's laughable.

Not to mention that this post is very chauvinistic, because it places all mothers in the 'old-fashioned and dependent' category. I assure you that my mother is an industrious woman who earns more than my father. And yes, I feel influenced. So?

[Katuschka]

So you have never in your life known a girlfriend or a woman in general who has hooked up with a "Bad Boy".

I have never met a woman who chose such a man deliberately, knowing from the very start that he indeed IS a "bad boy."

And most women have hooked up with one at one point or another.

Bullshit.

[spats]

Like when? Now more than before? That's laughable.

Not to mention that this post is very chauvinistic, because it places all mothers in the 'old-fashioned and dependent' category. I assure you that my mother is an industrious woman who earns more than my father. And yes, I feel influenced. So?

Again you misunderstand what i am saying.

Daughters are more influenced by their mothers than their fathers. So when the daughters are going out dressed like that. Have a talk with their mothers.

[Katuschka]

Who was bashing women?

IMO, there is no equality between men and women and there will never be. We are two different animals and it has been proven. Womens lib brought women far, and I think they get a fair shake in the job market, and sometimes they have the advantage. A lot, but, not all women use their looks and their bodies to get what they want. And I don't understand the thing about women being seen as objects because they have adverts with women on them. Look at all the adverts wih men on them, it's a two way street.

There is no equality between men and women (?)because (?) a lot of women use their looks to get what they want?

From what you said, one can deduce that:

1. The equality is impossible because women deliberately act in a self-demeaning way.

2. It's genetically or rather hormonally induced.

If this is not what you meant to say, then Pip is right and you indeed should think before you speak, because you can't express yourself well.

[spats]

I have never met a woman who chose such a man deliberately, knowing from the very start that he indeed IS a "bad boy."

Bullshit.

Kat, i hang out with "bad boys". I know them inside out. They have tried to get me to be one. I have seen them in action. You can spot one a mile way. They are smooth talkers, great dressers, they usually have a nice car. Very macho. They tell a woman everything they want to hear. They are agressive. The list goes on.

Now, i keep being told here and in general that women have a great radar when it comes to the right guys and the wrong guys. My buddies pick up women like crazy. And i have female friends who have fallen for these type of guys. So either women are completely clueless to this or they know and they love the ride that you go on with one of them. Which usually ends with the woman being unhappy.

[spats]

There is no equality between men and women (?)because (?) a lot of women use their looks to get what they want?

From what you said, one can deduce that:

1. The equality is impossible because women deliberately act in a self-demeaning way.

2. It's genetically or rather hormonally induced.

If this is not what you meant to say, then Pip is right and you indeed should think before you speak, because you can't express yourself well.

This is interesting because one woman says that there isn't equality and another says there is.

[Katuschka]

Again you misunderstand what i am saying.

Daughters are more influenced by their mothers than their fathers. So when the daughters are going out dressed like that. Have a talk with their mothers.

I think I understand you very well. If you're saying that women dress themselves as sluts because they're influenced by their mothers, what does it say about their mothers then? the final picture is very offensive. I don't know ONE SINGLE mother who would want her daughter to dress like that.

Mothers have very little influence in this case, it's all caused by mass media. You either don't or are not willing to understand this, which shows how generously you overlook anything that's said by those who disagree with you.

[Virginia]

And i see women as equals. But it seems with all the women who think it's a man's duty to do this or that (askout, make the first move, propose marriage), they don't want it do be that way. Or they want things to be equal only in certain instances. Like paychecks,etc.

Well i don't think a confident, mature, centered woman would expect the man to do everything in the dating world. They would be doing it themselves like i have been saying they should.

They would meet you half way. But they aren't going to ask out a guy who has his buddies inquire on his behalf, or someone so inflexible, because relationships take work and involve compromise. And most young women eventually want to get married and have a family. I suggest you place an ad with an online dating service, being completely frank about what you are looking for, and see what happens.

[spats]

I think I understand you very well. If you're saying that women dress themselves as sluts because they're influenced by their mothers, what does it say about their mothers then? the final picture is very offensive. I don't know ONE SINGLE mother who would want her daughter to dress like that.

Mothers have very little influence in this case, it's all caused by mass media. You either don't or are not willing to understand this, which shows how generously you overlook anything that's said by those who disagree with you.

In my opinion it's all about the parenting. The parents can cantrol what their kids wear.

[Katuschka]

Kat, i hang out with "bad boys". I know them inside out. They have tried to get me to be one. I have seen them in action. You can spot one a mile way. They are smooth talkers, great dressers, they usually have a nice car. Very macho. They tell a woman everything they want to hear. They are agressive. The list goes on.

So basically they lie about their true intentions and use the women? I know all this thank you.

Now, i keep being told here and in general that women have a great radar when it comes to the right guys and the wrong guys. My buddies pick up women like crazy. And i have female friends who have fallen for these type of guys. So either women are completely clueless to this or they know and they love the ride that you go on with one of them. Which usually ends with the woman being unhappy.

I certainly wouldn't say "in general," because when it comes to intelligence, women, as well as men, differ. I do know women who are clueless to this, but they usually don't fall in the "independent" category.

[Virginia]

Do you think it's fair to compare the two things? They are two different things.

I am amazed how it's considered so bad by some to split the bill.

If i pay for a woman on a date or more than one date and then she decides that she does not want to become my girlfriend then i see that as i have been made a fool of and used. But if you split the bill and that happens then no one is harmed and there are no bad feelings.

It's not all about you. It's about getting to know someone. It either clicks or it doesn't, but you'll never know unless you give it a try. You haven't been used; it just didn't click. THERE ARE NO GUARANTEES; a date is not a satisfaction guaranteed business transaction (because that would be prostitution!!). This is where it becomes painfully obvious that you don't respect women as people; and you don't even realize that you don't.