A Brilliant Quote

[kabbalahone]

And BTW, I say this as a proud Jew.

I thoroughly echo that emotion,

Yehudit Ischariot

[docron]

If I code the word faith, I get fait (to do in french), h for Hey is a Hebrew letter which looks like an entrance, a door. So the essence of walking through the door. The Hebrew word that symbolizes life is Chai, which is a Hey and a Yud. That pretty well sums it up eh?

could you elaborate more on this?

[wanna be drummer]

I think so... maybe?

No problem. And I agree completely. Megachurches are, IMO, the biggest criminals.

I'm not denying that they give back. I'm aware that they do.

But they could give back more. Sometimes our places of worship are built way to lavishly. To me it says they're forgetting their beginnings.

Moses didn't preach in a Temple. He preached in a tent, on a mountain, in a desert. Jesus (for those who believe in him) didn't preach in a Cathedral. He preached outside, in tents... even in caves.

Now, I'm not saying these are the kind of places we should be praying in. Personally, I do enjoy praying in air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter. That said, you don't need lavish adornments for your building, and you don't need to have a building so big New York City could live inside of it.

That's just over-doing it, and what could all of that money go for that actually matters?

Some good points there. But again, I think they already give an enormous amount. Of course, more is always welcome and yes, sometimes local places overdo things, but thats mankind for ya.

Of course, going back to roots would mean devolution or something, and I doubt the general public would enjoy that much. That would show peoples true colors no?

[kabbalahone]

could you elaborate more on this?

Sure. I have studied the Christian myth for years. I got to the point where rather than saying the sinners prayer... I said, holy cow... just take me damn it before this planet blows itself to high hell. That brought on a 4 day venture never to be repeated. Whoa.

Seriously, regarding religion... it's an easy thing to pass the puck, pass the buck, and hope and pray that somene who died thousands of years ago is actually going to save humanity with his spilled blood.

Rather, that's a story that feeds the mindset of war, because as in the method in which they believe, they send their own sons to die.

That's where "The Song Remains the Same." We are smarter than that now.

Faith is followed by action. You act on your faith. If we believe we can change the world for the better, we can. And the internet has got to be the most powerful means of getting the ideas out to anywhere. You get to express thoughts that can actually be meditated on, thought through.

So in a sense, walking through that door is taking the responsibility upon oneself to be that. That element of salvation. It's definitely not by dying but by living right.

[DeepBlackZeppelin]

As much as a lot of us love the idea of disestablishment and anarchy[maybe a lighter version of that word], in reality, religion is one of those forces that will never, never leave this Earth.

And though some parts of the Bible, Quran, Torah, etc. do touch upon issues of conquest and pillaging , it also encourages morally rich habits such as almsgiving and not judging your fellow man. I don't think the conquest comes too much into play in our modern society because you don't see a large majority of Christians, Muslims, Jews, etc.. today, campaigning to kill off others for the sake of religion [some insane extremists, yes, but a small minority]

So in lieu of promoting these morally rich habits and much of it, I have to completely agree with Jarlaxe and say that the religion is not the problem, it is most definitely the corruption brought on by human beings.

sidenote: I also agree that faith can be quite miraculous, but most people need that religious value to their lives to further advance their faith. [i'm not trying to argue about what each individual person believe, merely stating that faith and religion are just interlaced for most]

Of course, we have a flawed nature and that essence of religion is downright impossible to be followed by each and every one of its participants. So, truly if we did understand religion a lot more meticulously than we do now and actually followed the teachings rather than exploit goodhearted people to fulfill secular desires, we wouldn't have to really worry about the capitalism of religion.

Of course, that's idealistic thinking, and greed and lust for power are always going to implement themselves into every aspect of society, not just religion, and eventually corrupt its victims. How many times have we seen this?

[beatbo]

nice thread, nathan. i agree with much of it. there are always two things that will make money:

fear of the unknown (death and the hereafter)

and

meaning.

my point:

unhappy people are all alike. some wound they have suffered long ago, some wish that has been denied them, a blow to their pride, some spark of love put out by scorn-or even worse, indifference, and these things cling to them or they to it, so that they live each day in a cloud of yesterdays. the happy person does not look back or look ahead. they live in the present.

but this is the problem: the present alone can never deliver one thing: meaning. to find happiness, a person need only live in the moment, they need only live for the moment. but if that person wants meaning-the meanings of dreams, existence, life-that person must reinhabit the past, however dark, and live for the future, however uncertain.

nature or God dangles happiness and meaning in front of us all, seemingly insisting that we choose between them.

because of this fact, organized religion will never be poor. and there will always be psychiatry, philosophy, and self-help books for the rest. (multi-million dollar industries all)

many of us want both. so we pay and play and get up again each day.

and since our wants have been discovered, we have inadvertently created a market.

you ask about the money spent to build and furnish the vatican. you talk about kosher being expensive (synagogues are beautiful buildings, as well-no "community hole" there). does keeping kosher make you happy? or does it give you a sense of meaning? is your money well spent?

many people send joel orman hundreds every month. and are they happy or have they found meaning? they just might tell you that they have.

does something need to be done about this?

what are you willing to do? i'll do it with you (as long as it's not felonius but especially if it makes me laugh).

any good ideas?

[zepyep]

Hi all,

" Look for a long time at what pleases you... and longer still at what pains you "

KB

[Jarlaxle 56]

"I don't know about you, but I practice a disorganized religion. I belong to an unholy disorder. We call ourselves “Our Lady of Perpetual Astonishment.”

~ Kurt Vonnegut

[wanna be drummer]

"I don't know about you, but I practice a disorganized religion. I belong to an unholy disorder. We call ourselves “Our Lady of Perpetual Astonishment.”

~ Kurt Vonnegut

He was a great writer

RIP

[Ronniedawg]

Never miss a good opportunity to shut up.

Will Rogers