All this over a stupid Teddy Bear...

[Hermit]

I'd add that much of this thread has trashed Islam. It's been said that the religion is the cause of the violence (violence is an 'inherent' part of the faith apparently, over looking of course, many features of the religion that support a peaceful disposition).

Actually, much this thread has specifically trashed Sharia law..

..which happens to sit at the crux (pardon the religious pun) of Islam.

If condemnation of Sharia law is de facto condemnation of Islam,

then your assertion is accurate. ..and in that context it may well be.

I've yet to see anyone articulate the separation of Sharia law from the practice of Islam.

I've yet to hear any Muslims condemn Sharia law.. not even the most barbaric aspects of it.

Why the silence from Muslims with regard to condemning Sharia law? Could it be that its because Sharia law and Islam are inseparable, and therefore to condemn Sharia law would be to condemn the religion of Islam itself? And conversely, doesn't one's support of Islam infer one's support for Sharia law, a core dogma of Islam?

How does one reject a core dogma of a religion without rejecting the religion?

How does accept a religion (Islam) without accepting it's core dogma (Sharia law)?

[zepevermore]

PS - on another note ... did you know there are no homosexuals in Iran?

that looks like a passionate kiss to me

[Old Scratch]

Actually, much this thread has specifically trashed Sharia law..

..which happens to sit at the crux (pardon the religious pun) of Islam.

If condemnation of Sharia law is de facto condemnation of Islam,

then your assertion is accurate. ..and in that context it may well be.

I've yet to see anyone articulate the separation of Sharia law from the practice of Islam.

I've yet to hear any Muslims condemn Sharia law.. not even the most barbaric aspects of it.

Why the silence from Muslims with regard to condemning Sharia law? Could it be that its because Sharia law and Islam are inseparable, and therefore to condemn Sharia law would be to condemn the religion of Islam itself? And conversely, doesn't one's support of Islam infer one's support for Sharia law, a core dogma of Islam?

How does one reject a core dogma of a religion without rejecting the religion?

How does accept a religion (Islam) without accepting it's core dogma (Sharia law)?

There is a reason why I had that dream where I insisted you wear the pretty new dress I bought you ... so I could treat you to a special, romantic night on the town.

I said darling ... you look wonderful tonight.

~666

Me and Herm:

[Old Scratch]

Islam’s Silent Moderates

Trenchant observations about Sharia law and the deafening silence of the Vast Majority of Moderates from Ayaan Hirsi Ali, in this New York Times editorial:

The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with 100 stripes: Let no compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if you believe in Allah and the Last Day. (Koran 24:2)

In the last few weeks, in three widely publicized episodes, we have seen Islamic justice enacted in ways that should make Muslim moderates rise up in horror.

A 20-year-old woman from Qatif, Saudi Arabia, reported that she had been abducted by several men and repeatedly raped. But judges found the victim herself to be guilty. Her crime is called “mingling”: when she was abducted, she was in a car with a man not related to her by blood or marriage, and in Saudi Arabia, that is illegal. Last month, she was sentenced to six months in prison and 200 lashes with a bamboo cane.

Two hundred lashes are enough to kill a strong man. Women usually receive no more than 30 lashes at a time, which means that for seven weeks the “girl from Qatif,” as she’s usually described in news articles, will dread her next session with Islamic justice. When she is released, her life will certainly never return to normal: already there have been reports that her brother has tried to kill her because her “crime” has tarnished her family’s honor.

We also saw Islamic justice in action in Sudan, when a 54-year-old British teacher named Gillian Gibbons was sentenced to 15 days in jail before the government pardoned her this week; she could have faced 40 lashes. When she began a reading project with her class involving a teddy bear, Ms. Gibbons suggested the children choose a name for it. They chose Muhammad; she let them do it. This was deemed to be blasphemy.

Then there’s Taslima Nasreen, the 45-year-old Bangladeshi writer who bravely defends women’s rights in the Muslim world. Forced to flee Bangladesh, she has been living in India. But Muslim groups there want her expelled, and one has offered 500,000 rupees for her head. In August she was assaulted by Muslim militants in Hyderabad, and in recent weeks she has had to leave Calcutta and then Rajasthan. Taslima Nasreen’s visa expires next year, and she fears she will not be allowed to live in India again.

It is often said that Islam has been “hijacked” by a small extremist group of radical fundamentalists. The vast majority of Muslims are said to be moderates.

But where are the moderates? Where are the Muslim voices raised over the terrible injustice of incidents like these? How many Muslims are willing to stand up and say, in the case of the girl from Qatif, that this manner of justice is appalling, brutal and bigoted — and that no matter who said it was the right thing to do, and how long ago it was said, this should no longer be done?

[...]

But while the incidents in Saudi Arabia, Sudan and India have done more to damage the image of Islamic justice than a dozen cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad, the organizations that lined up to protest the hideous Danish offense to Islam are quiet now.

I wish there were more Islamic moderates. For example, I would welcome some guidance from that famous Muslim theologian of moderation, Tariq Ramadan. But when there is true suffering, real cruelty in the name of Islam, we hear, first, denial from all these organizations that are so concerned about Islam’s image. We hear that violence is not in the Koran, that Islam means peace, that this is a hijacking by extremists and a smear campaign and so on. But the evidence mounts up.

Islamic justice is a proud institution, one to which more than a billion people subscribe, at least in theory, and in the heart of the Islamic world it is the law of the land. But take a look at the verse above: more compelling even than the order to flog adulterers is the command that the believer show no compassion. It is this order to choose Allah above his sense of conscience and compassion that imprisons the Muslim in a mindset that is archaic and extreme.

If moderate Muslims believe there should be no compassion shown to the girl from Qatif, then what exactly makes them so moderate?

When a “moderate” Muslim’s sense of compassion and conscience collides with matters prescribed by Allah, he should choose compassion. Unless that happens much more widely, a moderate Islam will remain wishful thinking.

~666

[Max Wall]

Actually, much this thread has specifically trashed Sharia law..

..which happens to sit at the crux (pardon the religious pun) of Islam.

If condemnation of Sharia law is de facto condemnation of Islam,

then your assertion is accurate. ..and in that context it may well be.

I've yet to see anyone articulate the separation of Sharia law from the practice of Islam.

I've yet to hear any Muslims condemn Sharia law.. not even the most barbaric aspects of it.

Why the silence from Muslims with regard to condemning Sharia law? Could it be that its because Sharia law and Islam are inseparable, and therefore to condemn Sharia law would be to condemn the religion of Islam itself? And conversely, doesn't one's support of Islam infer one's support for Sharia law, a core dogma of Islam?

How does one reject a core dogma of a religion without rejecting the religion?

How does accept a religion (Islam) without accepting it's core dogma (Sharia law)?

So you're trashing Islam then? You don't seem certain.

I don't have the time right now to provide you with names, web addresses and so on, but there are indeed many 'moderate', 'liberal, 'progressive' Muslims who speak out against the insanity of fundamentalism. There's even a Canadian, liberal, lesbian Muslim who's been interviewed on the Bill O'Reily show They pretty well all condemn Sharia Law as it's practiced. Anyone could find them for themselves if they wanted to. It's easy.

There are individuals, groups, websites, organisations, academics, etc.. Many complain that their voices aren't being heard in the cut and thrust of the news. Many moderates also complain that not enough of them actively speak out. There's even questions over the extent to which the common Iranian agrees with their system of theocracy. Many are deeply disappointed that the revolution yielded what it has.

Sharia law wasn't devised by Muhammad. If Islamists in power wanted to tone it down they could. Though there are some fairly scary aspects of the religion (as in all), it's not thoroughly negative, violent and uncompromisingly devoted to wiping out other people and their religions. There are fundamentalist American Christians who'd like to replace the constitution with the Bible. Like with Islam, just what these Christians would emphasise in the great book of contradictions is open to question. The history of the interaction between Muslim societies and non-Muslim societies largely explains the sad situation we're in today.

[Old Scratch]

So you're trashing Islam then? You don't seem certain.

I don't have the time right now to provide you with names, web addresses and so on, but there are indeed many 'moderate', 'liberal, 'progressive' Muslims who speak out against the insanity of fundamentalism. There's even a Canadian, liberal, lesbian Muslim who's been interviewed on the Bill O'Reily show They pretty well all condemn Sharia Law as it's practiced. Anyone could find them for themselves if they wanted to. It's easy.

There are individuals, groups, websites, organisations, academics, etc.. Many complain that their voices aren't being heard in the cut and thrust of the news. Many moderates also complain that not enough of them actively speak out. There's even questions over the extent to which the common Iranian agrees with their system of theocracy. Many are deeply disappointed that the revolution yielded what it has.

Sharia law wasn't devised by Muhammad. If Islamists in power wanted to tone it down they could. Though there are some fairly scary aspects of the religion (as in all), it's not thoroughly negative, violent and uncompromisingly devoted to wiping out other people and their religions. There are fundamentalist American Christians who'd like to replace the constitution with the Bible. Like with Islam, just what these Christians would emphasise in the great book of contradictions is open to question.

No, it's based on his example ... and the message of the Koran.

On the second note: The Christian bible isn't a system of government, so to say that Christians want to replace the Constitution with the Bible is absurd.

Islam, however, has a system of government and social rule that is already a direct extension of Islamic faith ... ready for Islamic Radicalism to impose on ignorant dhimmis like yourself.

Unless you are a Muslim who is sympathetic to Islamic dominance ... which I'm beginning to believe...

The history of the interaction between Muslim societies and non-Muslim societies largely explains the sad situation we're in today.

I think you may be right in stating that there is a dichotomy of muslim societies and non-Muslim societies...and tension between them.

Seems Islam has a problem playing nice with everyone else ... since its very beginning.

I wonder whose fault that would be?

Speak out against Sharia Law Max.

Speak out against Islamic Fundamentalism.

Speak out against violent Jihad.

This is what I denounce ... and you should, too.

Quit making excuses and quit defending injustice.

That is my challenge to you.

~666

[Debbie]

No, it's based on his example ... and the message of the Koran.

On the second note: The Christian bible isn't a system of government, so to say that Christians want to replace the Constitution with the Bible is absurd.

Islam, however, has a system of government and social rule that is already a direct extension of Islamic faith ... ready for Islamic Radicalism to impose on ignorant dhimmis like yourself.

Unless you are a Muslim who is sympathetic to Islamic dominance ... which I'm beginning to believe...

I think you may be right in stating that there is a dichotomy of muslim societies and non-Muslim societies...and tension between them.

Seems Islam has a problem playing nice with everyone else ... since its very beginning.

I wonder whose fault that would be?

Speak out against Sharia Law Max.

Speak out against Islamic Fundamentalism.

Speak out against violent Jihad.

This is what I denounce ... and you should, too.

Quit making excuses and quit defending injustice.

That is my challenge to you.

~666

Amen!

[Old Scratch]

"Muslim apostates threatened over Christianity," by Alasdair Palmer in the Telegraph

Sofia Allam simply could not believe it. Her kind, loving father was sitting in front of her threatening to kill her. He said she had brought shame and humiliation on him, that she was now "worse than the muck on their shoes" and she deserved to die. And what had brought on his transformation? He had discovered that she had left the Muslim faith in which he had raised her and become a Christian.

"He said he couldn't have me in the house now that I was a Kaffir [an insulting term for a non-Muslim]," Sofia - not her real name - remembers.

"He said I was damned for ever. He insulted me horribly. I couldn't recognise that man as the father who had been so kind to me as I was growing up.

"My mother's transformation was even worse. She constantly beat me about the head. She screamed at me all the time. I remember saying to them, as they were shouting death threats, 'Mum, Dad - you're saying you should kill me… but I'm your daughter! Don't you realise that?'?"

They did not: they insisted they wanted her out of their house.

After three weeks of bullying, and just before her parents physically threw her out, Sofia left. "They put their loyalty to Islam above any love for me," she says, her voice faltering slightly.

"It was such a shock. I remember thinking when they brought all my uncles round to try to intimidate me - all these men were lined up telling me how terrible a person I was, how the devil had taken me - I remember thinking, how can this be happening? Because this isn't Lahore in Pakistan. This is Dagenham in London! This is Britain!"

Religious persecution of the kind Sofia suffers, however, is increasingly common in Britain today. It is hard to get an accurate notion of the scale of the problem, not least because very few of the people who leave Islam are willing to complain to the police about the way they are treated.

"Intimidation is very widespread and pretty effective," says Maryam Namazie, a spokesperson for the Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain. She believes that many of the deaths classified as "honour killings" are actually murders of people who have renounced Islam.

"I get threatened all the time: emails, letters, phone calls," she says. "When I returned home this afternoon, for example, there was a death threat waiting for me on my answering machine…" She laughs nervously.

"A lot of them aren't serious, but occasionally they are. I went to the police about one set of threats. They took a statement from me but that was it - they never contacted me again."

[...]

But it is not only extreme Muslim families that believe it is their religious duty to threaten, and even kill, members who renounce the religion.

"My father could not be described as an extremist," insists Sofia, who is now 31. "We read the Koran and prayed regularly together, but he never insisted on my wearing Islamic dress and he was quite happy that I went to the local comprehensive, which was all girls, but not by any means dominated by Muslims."

There were conflicts when Sofia's parents tried to arrange a marriage for her at the age of 18, but they seemed to accept her decision to continue her education.

[...]

"She confronted me one morning with, 'Are you still a Muslim?' I had to tell the truth: I didn't think I was. From that moment on, she basically disowned me. My father was shocked and saddened. But the reality was that my parents behaved to me as if they thought it would be much better if I was dead."

Most leading Muslims in Britain are unequivocal in their denunciation of British Muslim parents who threaten to kill their children for leaving Islam.

Ibrahim Mogra, of the Muslim Council of Britain (MCB), says that it is "absolutely disgraceful behaviour… In Britain, no Muslim has the right to harm one hair of someone who decides to leave Islam."

Inayat Bunglawala, also a spokesman for the MCB, insists that such behaviour in Britain is "awful and quite wrong. The police should crack down on it."

And yet a significant portion of British Muslims think that such behaviour is not merely right, but a religious obligation: a survey by the think-tank Policy Exchange, for instance, revealed that 36 per cent of young Muslims believe that those who leave Islam should be killed.

There is considerable support, from the Koran and other sacred Islamic texts, for that position - which may explain why, out of the 57 Islamic states in the world today, seven have a legal code that punishes Muslims who leave the religion with death.

That number may soon increase: Pakistan is currently considering a Bill that would make apostasy a capital crime for men and one carrying a sentence of imprisonment for women.

As it is, ordinary Pakistanis take the law into their own hands and kill Muslim apostates. The same thing happens in Turkey where, earlier this year, two people were killed for "having turned away from Islam".

Patrick Sookhdeo was born a Muslim, but later converted to Christianity. He is now international director of the Barnabas Fund, an organisation that aims to research and to ameliorate the conditions of Christians living in countries hostile to their religion.

He notes that "all four schools of Sunni law, as well as the Shia variety, call for the death penalty for apostates. Most Muslim scholars say that Muslim religious law - sharia - requires the death penalty for apostasy.

"In 2004, Prince Charles called a meeting of leading Muslims to discuss the issue," adds Dr Sookhdeo. "I was there. All the Muslim leaders at that meeting agreed that the penalty in sharia is death. The hope was that they would issue a public declaration repudiating that doctrine, but not one of them did."

The reluctance to condemn sharia law is widespread. I asked Mr Bunglawala, for instance, to condemn the Islamic states that imposed the death penalty for apostasy. He did not do so, merely commenting that "it was a matter for those states"....

~666

[KashmirDevi]

Not surprising coming from a loveless "religion" (and I use that term loosely).

I really hate sounding so disgusted by a religion, but I have a had time considering 2,974 innocent people killed in the World Trade Center attacks and the 246 people in the hijacked planes and 125 in D.C. .

In addition to the way they treat their women.

[Hermit]

So you're trashing Islam then? You don't seem certain.

I'm criticizing Sharia law.. Sharia law is central to Islam.

Connect the dots.

What I'm not doing is trashing all Muslims. I'm aware that there ARE peaceful Muslims. But I do inquire of Muslims, particularly of those "peace-loving" so-called "moderate" Muslims,.. is it possible to embrace Islam without also embracing, and validating, the barbaric dogma that is Sharia law? And conversely, is it possible to reject Sharia law without also rejecting Islam?

Using a different religion to make the same point..

Can a Catholic reject the church dogma that holds the

Pope to be infallible, and still consider himself a "Catholic"?

I don't have the time right now to provide you with names, web addresses and so on, but there are indeed many 'moderate', 'liberal, 'progressive' Muslims who speak out against the insanity of fundamentalism. There's even a Canadian, liberal, lesbian Muslim who's been interviewed on the Bill O'Reily show They pretty well all condemn Sharia Law as it's practiced. Anyone could find them for themselves if they wanted to. It's easy.

There are individuals, groups, websites, organisations, academics, etc.. Many complain that their voices aren't being heard in the cut and thrust of the news. Many moderates also complain that not enough of them actively speak out. There's even questions over the extent to which the common Iranian agrees with their system of theocracy. Many are deeply disappointed that the revolution yielded what it has.

Sharia law wasn't devised by Muhammad. If Islamists in power wanted to tone it down they could. Though there are some fairly scary aspects of the religion (as in all), it's not thoroughly negative, violent and uncompromisingly devoted to wiping out other people and their religions. There are fundamentalist American Christians who'd like to replace the constitution with the Bible. Like with Islam, just what these Christians would emphasise in the great book of contradictions is open to question. The history of the interaction between Muslim societies and non-Muslim societies largely explains the sad situation we're in today.

If there are influential Muslims speaking out against Sharia law and they're not

having any impact,.. then I guess they're not all that influential afterall, are they?

Apparently the influence lies with those who support Sharia law and who declare jihad. What does it say about Islam that leading clerics of the religion declare jihad not just on non-Muslims but also on Muslims of different sects than their own? What does it say about a religion when its most powerful and most influential leaders advocate war, violence, suicide bombings.. etc?

Remember,.. we're not talking about a few renegade Islamic clerics here,

we're talking about leading clerics in every Muslim nation in existence today.

These orders for violence are coming from clerics with influence, but you can't lay all the blame on the shepherds; ultimately the sheep don't have to obey, and yet so many do choose to obey. Why do they choose to obey?.. because to speak out in opposition to the religious leaders is as good as a death sentence.. meted out by their own religious leaders. What does that say about Islam as a religion?

What would happen to a "moderate" cleric in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, or anywhere else where Sharia law is the law is the prevailing law of (in)justice if he was to speak out against Sharia law? Would he survive? ..not likely, huh. What does that say about Islam as a religion?

Lemme ask you, Max..

Do you support Sharia law?

Do you support clerics declaring jihad?

If not, what's your objection to them being criticized.. or "trashed", if you prefer that word?

fwiw.. I'm as open-minded as anybody, and perhaps moreso than many, I'd venture to guess. 'To each, his/her own', and 'live and let live', I say. Unfortunately the religion of Islam as it exists in the world today, and as it has existed throughout it's history, is NOT a live and let live religion. To suggest otherwise is to be in denial.. even though that denial may be well-intentioned.

[Old Scratch]

An urgent appeal to the United Nations to protect the Copts in Egypt.

American Coptic Association website

"The trouble began Friday, December 31, 1991, in Al-Kosheh, an Upper Egyptian village, 275 miles south of Cairo, when Fayez Awad, a Muslim vendor, tried to purchase some textile from Rashed Mansour, a Christian shop owner. A dispute between the two ensued."

This is the backdrop of the latest massacre, premeditated against the defenseless Coptic (Christian) minority of Egypt. It does not differ much from the context of previous massacres where other Christians were brutally killed in cold blood and their property were looted or burned down under the sight of the Egyptian government and local authorities.

For four consecutive days, that is until Monday January 3, 2000, Muslim villagers went into rampage terrorizing their Christian neighbors in three villages; Al-Kosheh, Dar Al-Salam, and Awlad Tog West. Egyptian security forces aloofly watched over the camage, while curfew was in place!

Once more, members of the beleaguered Coptic minority are subdued by thousands of Muslim aggressors. The toll as of now is as follows:

More than 20 Copts were shot or buried to death and more than 10 were missing and feared murdered and burnt by the Egyptian officials to minimize the number of victims. More than 70 houses, shops, and warehouses were looted and burned down. A church building was destroyed. Scores of Copts were wounded, some in serious condition.

The Criminals stopped buses and cars, and picked the Christian passengers from their Identification Cards and shot them in cold blood.

It is important to note that in August 1998, 1200 Copts of Al-Kosheh village were rounded up and tortured by the Egyptian police in an attempt to frame a Coptic suspect to cover up the murder of two Christians who were killed by Muslims.

Similar massacres and massive attacks had previously taken place in different cities and villages all over Egypt in the last three decades. Among them we only cite, as examples: Al-Khanka, Al-Zawiyah, Al-Hamras, Kaft Dernian, Imbaba, Ezbet El-Nakhel, Ain-Shama, Al-Fayioum, Benisuef Dayrout, Al-Quslyah, Abou-Qurqas, Samallout, Al-Menlyah, Qena, and Aswan.

According to the Koran: The Muslims are instructed not to befriend Jews or Christians according to the Surah 5:54 which states, " O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and Christians for your friends." Therefore the Christians in Egypt are surrounded by hatred all over the country. Children in schools are taught that the Copts are infidels who should not be trusted and are not desirable elements in a Muslim society. Also, Christian children are forced to memorize Koranic verses, which are demeaning to their faith.

In the Koran, Allah orders Muslims to terrorize non-Muslims on His behalf. According to the Koran, "I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbeliever, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God" (Surah 8:13-17). Consequently, the Muslim fundamentalists murder Christians with impunity with the collaboration of the Egyptian security forces. As long as it is God who is responsible for murdering Christian, all the Muslims who have murdered Christians have been diagnosed as mentally disturbed by the government and set free. Since 1971 no one who murdered Christians or took possessions or property owned by Christians have been brought to justice. In Egypt both Copts and policemen have been murdered by the Muslim fundamentalists. However, the Copts have been murdered for their faith. In addition, Christian girls are regularly kidnapped and raped by Muslim fundamentalists, with the collaboration of the Egyptian security officials. They are forced to be concubines or prostitutes. The Koran says that God may forgive a person who forces his slave girl into prostitution (Surah 24:33). A prominent Islamic leader, Sheikh Mohamed El-Sharawii, who was awared the highest medal in Egypt by President Mubarak stated that a non-Muslim female should be honored if she is raped by a Muslim man.

There is no apostasy principal in Islam. According to Surah 3:85 "If anyone desires a religion other than Islam, never it will be accepted of him." On May 28, 1972 the Supreme Court of Alexandria in Egypt decided that Sherrin Saleh who converted to Christianity and married a Christian man was legally dead! Therefore, the Muslims who convert to Christianity are imprisoned and tortured on the ground that they create sedition and disorder. Islam is a nationality and anyone denounces Islam is considered as a traitor to the Nation of Islam. The Muslims talk about the Islamic Nation and not Islamic nations.

Therefore, the judgement on February 5, 2001, was based on the Islamic principles of killing non-Muslims with impunity. All the Muslims who murdered the 21 Copts in the town of Kosheh last January were released.

The Copts are living in fear of being murdered or property destroyed their daughters being kidnapped, and being humiliated in their workplace and public places. They are surrounded by hatred from their Muslim citizens. Their situation is similar to that of the Jews during the Nazi domination in Europe before sending them to the gas chambers or the Armenians before they were massacred in Turkey in 1915.

WORLD, PLEASE WAKE UP: The Copts of Egypt, the largest Christian minority in the Middle East, have been subjected to a cruel, though subtle, campaign of the ethnic cleansing for the last thirty years. Hundreds of thousand of Coptic villagers have been forced to flee out of their homes and land due to such attacks, money extortion or abject poverty. In addition, more than one million Copts have migrated from their homeland. Perpetrators of these grave violations of criminatory policies or its inaction.

As the reoccurrence of such atrocities and discriminatory policies of the Egyptian regime against the Coptic are diehard, it now becomes the responsibility of the international human community to bear its moral and legal responsibility towards the Copts in Egypt. The world must now remain indifferent until another genocide in complete.

The American Coptic Association requests that the United Nations investigates such violations, and the United States of America to withhold any assistance to Egypt until it respects the human rights of the Copts.

The American Coptic Association

and its chapters,

The Australian Coptic Association,

The Canadian Coptic Association,

The European Coptic Associations

~666

PS - I didn't know Christians were required to carry Identification cards stating they were Christian...

Wow. That moderate, Egyptian government sure is ... uh ... moderate.

Thanks Religion of Peace!

Another perfect example of how U.S. support for Israel justifies Muslim hatred.

[Old Scratch]

Jakarta (AsiaNews) – Indonesian authorities have prevented the parish priest of Christ’s Peace Church in South Duri (West Jakarta) from celebrating mass. The Catholic parish church in which the function was supposed to take place is at the centre of controversy ever since a group of Muslims have challenged its legal status. As a result of strong pressures from Muslim extremists Tambura Sub-district officials banned all activities in the church to avoid “social tensions.”

The parish priest, Fr Matthew Widyalestari MSC, signed an agreement forcing him to cease all activities in the church but expressed a desire to celebrate a Sunday mass for his 4,000 parishioners who now find themselves unable to practice their faith.

On Friday after a meeting between local Catholic leaders and officials from the West Jakarta District and the Tambura Sub-district, local political authorities insisted on cancelling the Eucharistic function as well. The same reason or excuse was given, “public order,” and the fear of sectarian clashes as Father Widyalestari told AsiaNews.

“The faithful want their spiritual needs fulfilled; they feel like they are on a most wanted list, forced underground to find another place to practice their religion,” the priest said.

~666

Another perfect example of how the West's greed for oil creates Islamic Radicalism.

[tangerinedream]

Did you guys see how hot Jimmy looks in the dress rehearsal photos?

Dear god.

Dear non-Muslim non-Sharia law god.

[Hermit]

Did you guys see how hot Jimmy looks in the dress rehearsal photos?

Dear god.

Dear non-Muslim non-Sharia law god.

Geezus Fucking Kryst, TD!

I cant help but think you're worshipping false idols.

tsk tsk!

repent ye sinner! ..INFIDEL!!

No. Forget that repentance shit,..

..it'd just be a waste of time.

You should get STONED INTO OBLIVION!

[sorry,.. but its the law around here. Sinners get stoned. ]

your time is gonna come. soon. real soon.

right after this sinner is done getting stoned -->

[edited to add]

yeah,.. those rehearsal pics are awesome, aren't they?!!

[ALEISTER CROWLEY]

that looks like a passionate kiss to me

Mid-eastern porn? ...

(viewer discretion advised)

[Old Scratch]

from Reuters:

RIYADH - If Saudi Arabia ever lets women drive, it will be a windfall for the automobile industry which has already seen sales to women rise, executives said at a motor show this week.

Saudi Arabia, which imposes a strict version of Islamic law, is the only country in the world where women are banned from driving. Religious authorities say allowing women to drive would lead to gender-mixing and take women away from their role as child-rearers.

But industry figures at the Riyadh Motor Show 2008 this week said they are already reaping the benefits from women owning cars, even if they need chauffeurs to drive them. The economy is booming in Saudi Arabia, the world’s top oil exporter with a population of 24 million.

More and more Saudi women are buying cars and manufacturers are responding to the trend, said Ali Alshihri of Toyota 7203.T, citing the Camry, Aurion and Avalon as women’s favourites.

‘Older women and single mothers are the main buyers from our showrooms,’ he said, adding manufacturers are producing colours seen as more appealing to women such as pink and purple.

Car ownership by women rose 60 percent from 2003 to 2006, according to figures published by state oil firm Saudi Aramco this year. It said 75,522 women owned 120,334 vehicles by the end of 2006.

Some residents believe the rising sales could create more pressure on the authorities to sanction women driving.

King Abdullah has said such a change could happen when society is ready to accept it. The ban on women’s driving has been a hot topic of debate since the king came to power in 2005 promising reforms.

‘If women can drive, then the car industry will be booming,’ said a sales executive with a major car manufacturer.

‘There is increasing demand to buy cars, especially from working women. The women’s workforce in Saudi Arabia is becoming powerful and influential. You find business women everywhere and business geared towards women is growing rapidly.’

Wednesday, the last day of the four-day show, is reserved for ‘families’, as is Saudi custom—the only day when women are allowed to visit the exhibition.

An executive from Nissan 7201.SE said the Japanese firm would target Saudi women with its Infiniti model.

Yann Lassade of General Motors GM.N in Dubai said its new Cadillac was being marketed in Saudi Arabia for the first time with female buyers in mind—but not those who drive.

The Cadillac comes with special control mechanisms in the rear seat for everything but the steering wheel.

‘The new design is perfect for a chauffeur-driven car, with all the space and controls at the back seat,’ Lassade said.

~666

Note to Islamic Law: WOMEN ARE NOT PROPERTY

[Old Scratch]

Turkish lawyer asks for cancellation of Italian team's soccer victory because winners wore "offensive" t-shirt featuring cross

Goal.com

A Turkish lawyer has filed a complaint to Uefa after Inter wore a shirt with an offensive symbol, at least to Islamic culture, in their recent match against Fenerbahce.

A Turkish lawyer who's an expert on European law, Baris Kaska, is asking Uefa to cancel the three points Inter earned in their win against Fenerbahce in the recent Champions League match.

The Nerazzurri had beaten the Turkish champions 3-0 at home to qualify for the next round of the Champions League.

The reason for the appeal is unusual: the celebratory shirt for Inter's centenary worn by the team that night, and on several other occasions this season, offended many people in Turkey.

The shirt's scheme saw a big red cross on a white background, a symbol of the city of Milan, and reminded many of an emblem of the order of the Templars, which is considered offensive in Islamic culture.

Inter consciously did not wear their 'centenary shirt' in their first match against Fenerbahce in Istanbul, but at home, they did not think it was necessary to do the same.

However, the very sensitive Turkish media reacted bitterly and that led to the official appeal filed by Kaska, who announced this decision during an interview to Barcelona daily La Vanguardia.

~666

[Old Scratch]

Fitzgerald: Start with Shakespeare. Go from there.

How a Muslim should treat his non-Muslim relatives is an important question in Islam. Historically, after Muslims conquered non-Muslim lands and peoples with military force, almost at once and from then on people tried to escape from what turned out to be (they had initially misunderstood what the supposed kindness of their conquerors would be) not a pleasant but a most difficult, onerous, and at times intolerable existence: that of being a dhimmi, a condition that involved permanent humiliation, degradation, expense, and physical insecurity.

Younger people, obviously, would be the ones who would convert or "revert" most often, while those set in their ways would probably cling to their beliefs, faiths, rituals. So what early Islam had to deal with was not the case of Muslim parents dealing with a non-Muslim child, but the reverse: the new convert ("revert"), in the lands conquered by Islam by military force. Today, of course, that kind of military conquest is not possible, except at the edges of Islam, or where Infidel lands can be persuaded to give in or even to take the Muslim side -- as in the Balkans. There the West seems determined to rip part of Serbia where Muslims are the majority right out of Serbian control, as if head-counting were the final authority. This is an idea that will come back to haunt France, Great Britain, and other countries as Muslim populations are permitted to rise, inexorably, and where, in this city or in that region, the same Muslim writ will then inevitably run.

In the West today, the instruments of Jihad are the Money Weapon (which comes from donors and suppliers among the Arab oil states), the allowing of the building of mosques and madrasas, and the use of Western hirelings (journalists, lawyers, businessmen, academics, and others) to protect not only the "image" of Saudi Arabia but also of Islam, and to use that money to intimidate or silence critics of Islam -- or at least to everywhere attempt to do so. Da'wa and demographic conquest. The latter has been written about extensively by Muslims, though whenever an Infidel quotes such things, it is he who is attacked. See the vicious misreporting on Mark Steyn, whose quoting of Mullah Krekar's phrase about Muslims in Europe "breeding like mosquitoes" was mistakenly attributed to Steyn himself by someone quick with the idiotic charges of "racism" that we have all grown so used to, and that look more ridiculous and desperate every day.

The campaign in the West for Da'wa is accompanied by efforts, amazingly aggressive and relentless in every respect, by Muslim groups and communities. They use every instrument of dissemination that the Infidels have invented and provide, to present themselves simultaneously as:

1) Just like us, and to be accepted as perfectly fine (Americans, British, French, etc.);

2) Not like us, but purer and better than we are, and therefore deserving of having their demands to apply the Shari'a, as much as they can, agreed to, and, as much as they can, to have changes made in the legal and political institutions to accommodate Muslim demands and Muslim needs. These could be for hijabs in French schools, to make a political issue. Or, if the Muslims are in a system that is not so wedded to removing "religious" symbols, as the American school system, so that a fight cannot be had over the hijab, then it might be about other things: the demand for release from classes, or work, for five-times-a-day prayer, and the providing of prayer rooms on site. Or it could be zoning changes to allow mosques, or looming minarets that are symbols of Muslim power. Or a demand that municipal pools have Muslim-women-only days. It starts with that kind of thing, but it has essentially no end: every single obstacle, as Muslims define them, to the practice of Islam, and to the spread of Islam, and then to the ultimate dominance of Islam (that must come: not merely the existence, but the future dominance), must be removed.

Every kind of technological advance made possible by Infidels is exploited: radio, television, the Internet. Every bit of publicity that will further the cause of Islam is taken advantage of, so as to confuse or distract the Infidels, or make them, or some of them, think that Muslims are being "victimized," by likening them to whatever real historical victims exist. So the persecution and mass-murder of European Jewry is invoked by Muslims -- often the same Muslims who are completely at ease with their own brand of home-grown, Islam-prompted antisemitism (with a different prompting than that to be found historically in Western Christendom), and their own history of mistreatment, over 1350 years, of Jews as of other non-Muslims.

In this country, it happened the other day when a planted Muslim questioner undertook his propagandistic questioning of John Edwards. "Martin" (i.e., Martin Luther King) and the Civil Rights movement will be invoked by Muslims who, in fact, have not the slightest interest in or natural sympathy for blacks, and who, in their own countries, routinely make remarks and demonstrate racist attitudes that flabbergast visiting Americans there.

Thus in this country we are forced to endure the spectacle of Muslim Arabs asserting Islam as a vehicle of social justice. Yet it was Muslim Arabs who started and conducted for centuries before and after all others the slave trade in black Africa. Even today they enslave blacks in Mauritania and in the Sudan. And if we are to believe such keen observers as Ayaan Hirsi Ali, they do also in Saudi Arabia, beyond the prying eyes of any Infidels -- who hardly can be said, over the past century, and especially in the last few decades, to have done much prying, or much reporting, on what really goes on in Saudi Arabia, the country that has been far more successful than any Communist regime at shutting out or shutting off inquiries or investigations by reporters.

Then there is the Muslim propaganda of the "aren't Muslims just like us" variety. These "Muslims-are-just-like-us" heartwarming articles are always about the same two or three things: the observance of Ramadan and then the Iftar dinner, and then Muslims "integrating" into American society, trying so hard, so very very hard if only we would let them (what utter nonsense), as in that story in The Times a week ago about "Muslim Girl Scouts" in America (all 1,500 of them, which given the Muslim population is very few). The Times journalist made certain we would be led to believe that these "scouts" are emblematic of the touching Muslim desire to be just like us, when in fact the story ignores entirely not the Girl Scout uniforms, or the Girl Scout cookies, but what those little girls are taught to believe, taught to believe as Muslims, the attitudes and tenets of Islam that arise naturally from the texts, Qur'an and Hadith and Sira.

So nowadays, a new situation has developed. Along with all the psychically and economically marginal people who are those deemed most vulnerable to appeals of those carrying out Da'wa, there are, among the Muslims, those who have somehow managed, through intellectual effort and moral revulsion at Islam, to fight their way through to leaving Islam and, in many of those cases, embracing Christianity. It happens very rarely and requires enormous courage to do so, of course, in Dar al-Islam. And it happened in this case, with this girl, in Egypt.

Islam is hardly silent on how a Muslim child should treat, or rather how he should deal with, his non-Muslim parents. Read about it, merely by googling a bit. He should keep them at bay, making sure they are not able to re-convert him back to his original faith. This is not different from the way that the Nazis and the Communists (Pavel Morozov!) taught little Hitler Youths and Oktobryata to treat their parents: as people to be watched, people who, of course, might have to be reported to the authorities, and sacrificed For The Good Of The Cause. And of course the same would go for any other relatives, and parents would be expected, as well, to turn in their children.

Islam, like other ruthless totalitarian belief-systems, demands of its adherents that they be willing to sacrifice everything if need be, for the Good of Islam. And that includes the willingness to overcome what, we have been led to believe, are the natural ties that bind children and parents with ties of affection and loyalty and love. The ties may not always bind in the Infidel world, but no other faith teaches its adherents to think or behave toward relatives as Islam does.

We see the "Palestinian" mother (or many such mothers) who is taped for everyone to see, expressing her delight that one of her children has blown himself, or herself, up, "killing Jews." She tells the camera how delighted and proud she is, and she has another six or seven or ten at home, whom she has raised up to do the same. And we read of, though seldom see, the relatives who gather round to cause the death, by lapidation, of a girl convicted under Shari'a law of adultery, and it is the father who casts the first stone. All because Allah wills it, Islam demands it. Humans are merely the slaves of Allah, and must do his bidding, at every step. It is an incredible system of brainwashing, and then of rigorous reinforcement, and enforcement, at every level of society, in every way. Who can get out? Who can be mentally free or, still more amazing, once that mental freedom from such enslavement is achieved, who can remain free? And the same Islam that teaches disloyalty to parents and other relatives, and ignoring of natural tendencies of affection where the cause of Islam demands otherwise, also tugs -- or exploits. Filial piety makes someone keep declaring himself a Muslim, or defending the father who, in Iran, casts the first stone in the series that will cause the death, by lapidation, of his own daughter.

In the early conquering days of Islam, it was the younger non-Muslims who would convert to Islam. And it was therefore important to spell out exactly how they should treat with, deal with, “handle” their disapproving parents and relatives. Little attention was paid to the possibility that a child of Muslims might dare to leave Islam. Such a case, however, was dealt with under the general rule that applies to all Muslims, a rule that has been ratified time and again by Muslim clerics, including those who met with Prince Charles a year or so ago (see the testimony of Patrick Sookhdeo).

That is the case here. She has disgraced, dishonored her parents. She deserves to be attacked, beaten, possibly killed. And her relatives, her own parents, will be happy not merely to participate, but to lead the frenzied mob. It is the only way that they can redeem themselves in the eyes of fellow Believers and Allah. Their station here below is at stake, as is their possibility for that Muslim Paradise, the languor and lilies of that la-illah au-dela.

Punch and kick her, boys. Stab her if you feel like it. Here, let everyone join in. It will be like “Murder on the Orient Express,” where everyone shares in committing the murder. Except that was a mere fiction to be solved by the moustachioed Hercule Poirot. This is fact, and this happens all over the world, in Dar al-Islam, and now, right smack in Dar al-Harb, in England, land of hope and glory.

Yes, they can be screaming, and trying to beat down the door to kill such a young girl, right smack in the middle of old Londinium, or any other large city or town, in a flat just round the corner from the church, the caff, the fish-and-chips, the pub, the place where you can get bangers-and-mash, the one that has a faded picture of Elizabeth at her coronation tacked to the wall, and perhaps, upstairs (now we are renewing our poetic license with a vengeance), the sound of Gracie Fields being listened to by a pensioner in the flat upstairs (Her Grace, and Our Gracie, together again at last). Right there: the primitive minds and mores of people with minds on Islam. How does Her Majesty’s Government intend to deal with this? By continuing to pretend that Islam does not possess the immutable texts it does possess? By continuing to pretend that they are not taken seriously, and that those who do not take them seriously but continue to call themselves Muslims, will never take their religious texts seriously, and never will do so for all time, with no possibility of re-acquiring at any point, they or their burgeoning progeny, that old-time religion that means menace and more for Infidels?

Forget it all. Play that record one more time, will you? Louder, so that we can remember only the past, and drown out the present, and never ever think about our future, or of any conceivable future:

Gracie Fields: 'Shipyard Sally' Land Of Hope And Glory

Again, but turn up the sound so everyone in the house can hear it.

Now start thinking. Start with Shakespeare. Go from there.

~666

[JAG]

I was going to mention that Sharia law was banned in my part of the world (Ontario, Canada) by the provincial govt a few years back in usage in any form of domestic litigation by Muslims.

...

Horribly sad story from a Toronto-suburb today ...

Hijab dispute behind teen's death, friends say

toronto.ctv.ca

A Mississauga, Ont. teenager was killed in a family dispute over her choice not to wear traditional Muslim clothing, her friends say.

Aqsa Parvez, 16, was taken to hospital with life-threatening injuries on Monday after police said a man claiming to be the girl's father called them and said he had killed his daughter. Parvez succumbed to her injuries on Monday night.

The teen, an Applewood Heights Secondary School student, often complained of her situation at home, her friends told CTV News on Tuesday.

The students said Parvez no longer wanted to wear a hijab, a shoulder-length head scarf worn by some Muslim women. They also said Parvez would often change her clothing once she got to school and then would change back before going home.

"People said her brothers and sisters followed her to see if she was wearing her headscarf or not," one student said.

Parvez had recently been staying with a friend because of tension at home, classmates said.

"Her dad was threatening her and she was getting scared and she just didn't want to live there anymore," another student said.

The victim's father has been charged with murder, while the girl's brother has been charged with obstructing police.

Police have not commented on a possible motive and are keeping tight-lipped as to how the teen was attacked.

Students, staff remember slain teen

A spokesperson for the Peel District School Board said officials will look into the situation to see if there's something they can learn to help ease cultural transitions for students in the future.

"We will want to see what we can learn from this," Sylvia Link, the board's manager of communications told CTV.ca. "If there is anything that we can learn from this incident that will prevent it from happening in the future, we'll do what we can to keep our students safe."

Link said the board already helps students learn about other cultures by organizing events such as Black History Month.

In fact, Parvez helped organize the school's last Black History Month event.

"She had friends from all kinds of different backgrounds," Link said.

Aside from describing her as popular and vivacious, Link said Parvez showed great interest in the arts, particularly fashion. She was enrolled in a photography and fashion course at the school.

Counsellors were at the school Tuesday to help students and staff deal with the grief, Link said.

A memorial table was also set up at the front of the school where friends of the slain teen could write their memories, put up pictures, leave flowers and mementos.

"Aqsa was honestly the brightest girl around," wrote one student inside a memory book. "She had the biggest smile and was the happiest person in school. She loved to dance and take pictures."

"No matter what, there was always happiness inside you," wrote another student. "You always knew how to make people smile even when you weren't yourself."

Link said staff at the school were shocked when they heard the news.

"There is no way to describe the shock and grief a school experiences when it loses a student to a tragedy like this," she said. "Our focus today is helping support staff and students."

An announcement was made early in the morning and two letters, one for students and another for their parents is expected to go home with the kids at the end of the day.

Muhammad Parvez, 57, appeared in a Brampton court on Tuesday charged with murder.

Waqas Parvez, 26, is also charged in the investigation with obstructing police.

http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20071211/Mississauga_murder_071211/20071211?hub=TorontoHome

[Old Scratch]

Maldives: non-Muslims to lose citizenship

From Inspire Magazine:

The Maldivian constitutional assembly has passed an amendment stating that “none, except Muslims can be Maldivian citizens”.

According to the Barnabas Fund, an organisation that supports the persecuted Church, the implementation of this amendment to the constitution means that a number of Maldivians will lose their citizenship and become stateless. In the Maldives it is illegal to practise any other religion than Islam.

While there are a few Christians in the country among the expatriates, there are also some Maldivian Christians, converts from Islam, who would lose their citizenship. Although the current constitution does not specifically mention this, any person who follows, preaches or simply reads texts of other religions is punished until he or she turns to Islam.

Under President Gayoom, whose autocratic regime has recently come under attack, militant Islamism has become more widespread. After a bomb explosion earlier this year, which injured a number of tourists and was attributed to an Islamic militant group, the president promised to take measures to combat Islamic extremism. This seems to contradict this latest amendment to the constitution.

~666

[FuzzyMerkin]

Turkish lawyer asks for cancellation of Italian team's soccer victory because winners wore "offensive" t-shirt featuring cross

Just when you think the whole charade can't possibly get any more pathetic...

I suggest Turkey to opt out of FIFA in protest. Now that would teach us (and save us from Turkish hooligans)!

[Old Scratch]

A very good, light, 4 part read of a female journalist in the DC area who spent a week dressed in a full burka and niqab in order to understand the women who wear them and the attitudes of people she encounters in public.

Enjoy.

Danielle Crittenden: A cloak of my own — Part one of four

~666

[Old Scratch]

Repost from Jihadwatch.org:

Death of Aqsa Parvez had nothing to do with Islam, Muslim leaders say

The denial thickens. Think for a minute about what Muslim spokesmen in Canada could be saying. They could acknowledge that the divine sanction given to the beating of disobedient women (Qur'an 4:34) has created a culture in which such abuse is accepted as normal. They could call for a searching reevaluation of the meaning and continued relevance of Qur'an 4:34, and call in no uncertain terms for Muslims to reject definitively its literal meaning, now and for all time to come. They could acknowledge the prevalence of honor killing in Islamic culture, which has no sanction as such in Islamic theology but nonetheless enjoys enough Islamic approval that the Jordanian Parliament a few years ago rejected on Islamic grounds attempts to stiffen penalties for it. They could call for sweeping reform and reexamination of the status of women in Islam.

Instead, we get this.

By Jered Stuffco for the Canadian Press (thanks to Twostellas):

TORONTO - Islamic leaders rose to the defence of their religion Thursday as the Muslim community continued to grieve the death of a 16-year-old girl - and deny suggestions that her slaying should in any way be interpreted as a reflection on their faith.

Islam condemns violence and teaches adherents not to force their beliefs upon others, Sheik Alaa El-Sayyed, imam at Mississauga's Islamic Society of North America, told a news conference in the suburban city west of Toronto that was once home to Aqsa Parvez. [...]

"The bottom line is, it's a domestic violence issue," El-Sayyed said.

"We, as Muslims, are Canadians and we should be dealt with just like everyone else. We have rights, duties . . . pros and cons just like all other human beings."

Autopsy results released Wednesday found Parvez died of "neck compression."

The tragedy has underscored a controversial and heated public debate about women's rights within Canada's Islamic communities, and inflamed existing tensions already strained by what Muslim leaders say is ignorance and misunderstanding in Canadian society.

Women ultimately have the choice of whether or not they want to wear a hijab, but Islam teaches that such women occupy a more advanced position within the religion, El-Sayyed said.

"When I look at a woman who is covered, I look at her as a soul, a person, a mentality - not a physical or sexual object," he said.

Muslim women who wear veils might not "look pretty," but their modest dress protects them, he added.

Mohammad Iqbal Alnadvi, a marriage counsellor and religious expert at the Al-Fatah Islamic Centre in Oakville, said he believes it's important for parents in Muslim families to give their daughters a choice when it comes to decisions of dress.

"My daughter, she's going into Grade 11, and she's taking the hijab," Alnadvi said.

"I never asked her to take the hijab, but I developed a mentality in her to choose - it is her choice."

Meanwhile, students and friends at Applewood Heights Secondary School were expressing outrage at the intense media attention generated by the death of their friend.

"This is not about religion," said one student, standing near the school and clad in a hijab, who refused to give her name.

~666

[Old Scratch]

from Physorg.com :

Turkish health workers condone wife beating

Domestic violence is an inherent problem in Turkey, and healthcare workers are doing little to combat the prevalence of wife beating, according to research published in the online open access journal, BMC Public Health. A survey of medical personnel reveals that a lack of training and a cultural acceptance of domestic violence may prevent victims from obtaining the support they desperately require.

173 medical staff from the emergency department of a Turkish university hospital responded to a questionnaire about domestic violence. 69.0% of the female and 84.7% of the male respondents declared that they agreed or partially agreed to at least one reason to justify physical violence.

Accepted grounds for intimate domestic violence included lying to or criticising the male and failure to care for children. Moreover, about three-quarters of the nurses and male physicians and over half of female physicians agreed that deceiving the husband justified physical punishment Deceiving the husband is a taboo in Turkey and it is among the most important reasons for honour murders.

The vast majority of healthcare workers declared that they were aware of the clinical signs of domestic violence, yet more detailed questions highlighted significant gaps in their knowledge. Few staff knew the correct legal procedures for reporting cases of wife-beating.

"We found that there are no clear procedures to manage the victims of domestic violence in the emergency department in Turkey. However, informing the victims about their legal rights and starting the legal procedure right after the incident could be a life-saving intervention," noted the study's co-author H. Asli Davas Aksan.

There is little training on the issues of domestic violence for emergency department medical staff in Turkey. Nine out of ten people surveyed had not received any training at all, and of those that had, almost three quarters said it was inadequate.

~666

[Old Scratch]

Minnesota community college's interfaith "meditation room" is actually a mosque

The Minneapolis-St. Paul Star Tribune :

Last week, I visited a Muslim place of worship. A schedule for Islam's five daily prayers was posted at the entrance, near a sign requesting that shoes be removed. Inside, a barrier divided men's and women's prayer space, an arrow informed worshippers of the direction of Mecca, and literature urged women to cover their faces.

Sound like a mosque?

The place I'm describing is the "meditation room" at Normandale Community College, a 9,200-student public institution in Bloomington.

Until recently, the room was the school's only usable racquetball court. College administrators converted the court into a meditation room when construction forced closure of the previous meditation room.

A row of chest-high barriers splits the room into sex-segregated sections. In the smaller, enclosed area for women sits a pile of shawls and head-coverings. Literature titled "Hijaab [covering] and Modesty" was prominently placed there, instructing women on proper Islamic behavior.

They should cover their faces and stay at home, it said, and their speech should not "be such that it is heard."

"Enter into Islaam completely and accept all the rulings of Islaam," the tract read in part. "It should not be that you accept what entertains your desires and leave what opposes your desires; this is from the manners of the Jews."

"[T]he Jews and the Christians" are described as "the enemies of Allaah's religion." The document adds: "Remember that you will never succeed while you follow these people."

A poster on the room's door advertised a local lecture on "marriage from an Islamic perspective," with "useful tips for marital harmony from the Prophet's ... life." Other fliers invited students to join the Normandale Islamic Forum, or participate in Ramadan celebrations.

One thing was missing from the meditation room: evidence of any faith but Islam. No Bible, no crucifix, no Torah.

Normandale's administration is facilitating the room's Islamization. The college's building crew erected the barrier separating men's and women's sections, according to Ralph Anderson, dean of student affairs. College officials also posted signs at the room's entrance asking students to remove shoes -- a Muslim custom before prayers. This was "basically a courtesy to Muslim students," Anderson said.

Despite the room's Islamic atmosphere, Anderson says it "is open to everyone."

Why is the meditation room segregated by sex? "Muslim students prefer that areas be divided into male and female," he said. "Other students don't care."

Doesn't sex-segregation present a constitutional problem in a public educational institution? "I don't want to comment on that," he said.

And the literature regarding Jews and Christians? "I would probably take it out if I knew it was in there," said Anderson.

Normandale's zealous effort to accommodate Muslim students is not new. Chad Lunaas, a former student who works at the college part time, cites examples.

Last year on Fridays, he says, he often entered the bathroom to find that "every sink and toilet stall had someone washing his feet." Other students couldn't use the bathroom at these times, and those who tried felt awkward.

Lunaas finally expressed his concerns to a Muslim student who "seemed to be in charge."

"His attitude was, 'We don't have to listen to you, we can do whatever we want,' " he said.

Confrontations also erupted in the sex-segregated meditation room, according to Lunaas. "Muslim students just took it over. They made people who were not of the Muslim religion feel very uncomfortable, especially if they were female."

One female student tried to use the room when Muslim students were in it, said Lunaas. "She believed she should be treated equally. They were telling her to leave, to take off her shoes, to go to the other side of the divider."

Anderson says he met several times with concerned students. But "the whole thing was just basically swept aside," according to Lunaas.

Anderson said that in the incident involving the young woman, "both sides were probably out of line."

Howard Odor, who advises the college's Somali Student Association, said he has not been aware of "any issues" since the meditation room has been in the racquetball court. "I can guarantee that college policy is that anyone who wants to go in there and pray or meditate can do so."

But many at the college see a bigger issue.

"For all practical purposes, this meditation room is essentially a Muslim prayer room," said Chuck Chalberg of Normandale's history faculty. "Something this unprecedented goes beyond religious toleration."

~666