Patrycja Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Ady's point makes me think they may not have intended to plagiarize, Swede, though, again it's really surprising how regular people noticed the similarities and throughout the whole recording process music industry types didn't seem to have. I wonder whether there's leniency for intent in these types of cases. Can intent be proven in a case such as this? I'm genuinely curious... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Yeah, Ady's point is to Coldplays favour. I get the feeling that no one thought about any similaities until Satrianis suing got media coverage. I mean, I don't think Coldplay fans are listening to Satriani or vice versa. Those who have, and know the Satriani song, is probably hardcore fans of his, and they may have heard the Coldplay song on the radio and heard they sound the same.. I don't know. I don't listen to either Coldplay or Satriani (though I have an old album of his), and if I'd heard Coldplays song one day and heard the Satriani song the next day, I would never have thought of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pagemeister Posted December 10, 2008 Share Posted December 10, 2008 Jeez, if people are gonna start suing each other over songs with minor similarities, then soon we'll be seeing more bands in court than on stage . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tangerine~ Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 My daughter and i love this song, so when i first heard this news i was disappointed. But seems, this could be quite innocent and i found this article interesting. No comment on the similarity since i don't recall the Satriani song (once lived with a Satch fan, but i never really listened to his music much). I do love a Marty Balin ballad, but don't know of this song either. http://www.canada.com/topics/entertainment...html?id=1067336 Joe Satriani and Coldplay clash over tune plagiarism allegationsAdam Mcdowell, Canwest News Service Published: Friday, December 12, 2008 Perhaps members of Coldplay sense that it's at least possible that they've taken a lick from Joe Satriani's fingers without even knowing it. On Tuesday, the band posted a rebuttal on its official website, stating: "With the greatest possible respect to Joe Satriani, we have now unfortunately found it necessary to respond publicly to his allegations. If there are any similarities between our two pieces of music, they are entirely coincidental, and just as surprising to us as to him. Joe Satriani is a great musician, but he did not write or have any influence on the song 'Viva La Vida.' We respectfully ask him to accept our assurances of this and wish him well with all future endeavours." Considering that it would be perfectly acceptable practice in the British music business to say simply, "We've never heard of Joe Satriani, so sod off," Coldplay's response is pretty measured. The Satriani-Coldplay plagiarism suit may be further complicated by a 1981 single by Marty Balin, formerly of the 1960s and '70s band Jefferson Airplane. (Getty Images) Font:****Complicating matters in the Satriani-Coldplay affair is a 1981 single by Marty Balin, formerly of the 1960s and '70s band Jefferson Airplane. Called "Hearts," some believe it sounds like "Viva La Vida" and "If I Could Fly" -- and it predates both. One wonders if Balin is preparing a lawsuit of his own -- or if Satriani is wondering whether he's ever heard the song. Are Coldplay plagiarists, victims of the human tendency to remember melodies without recalling their source, or neither? That's the question to be considered by a California court now that Satriani, the guitar virtuoso, has launched a lawsuit against Coldplay. Last Thursday, Satriani filed papers alleging the light-rockers ripped off a melody from "If I Could Fly" and reused it in the chorus of the "Viva La Vida" single, released last May. Before we fly off to wild conclusions, it should be said that it's surprisingly easy to unconsciously steal melodies and song structures. It's a phenomenon called cryptomnesia and it happens with regularity. Though the possible sequences of musical notes may be practically limitless from a mathematical perspective, the number of combinations that actually work is much more constrained. Toronto-based classical composer James Rolfe, president of the Canadian League of Composers, says, "The reality in music is that everyone borrows from everyone else. There's only so many ways, especially in a pop song, that you can do a hook, a chorus, or use the same words about love. It's almost guaranteed that there will be certain things that sound exactly alike, whether it's conscious or unconscious." Moreover, Rolfe says it's easy to be left wondering whether an idea is one's own or someone else's. "I know there are a good number of musicians who are driven nuts by that kind of thing." The law has recognized that accidents happen. k.d. lang successfully got a retroactive song credit from the The Rolling Stones for recycling the hook from her 1992 hit "Constant Craving" in their 1997 single "Anybody Seen My Baby?" -- apparently unintentionally. George Harrison was found to have unwittingly copied The Chiffons' "He's So Fine" with his 1970 track "My Sweet Lord," marking the only known instance of a girl group's pop song being subconsciously recycled as a hymn to the Hindu deity Krishna. The fear of stealing is strong enough that another Beatle, Paul McCartney, sat on "Yesterday" -- one of the biggest pop songs ever -- for a month while he tried to figure out whether he'd unconsciously stolen it. Turns out, he hadn't. Andrew Lloyd Webber was sued in 1998 for allegedly stealing music by Baltimore songwriter Ray Repp in the composition of Phantom of the Opera. At the trial, Lloyd Webber revealed that he goes out of his way to avoid hearing other people's music. "I hate it when (there's music) in a restaurant or in a car or a taxi. My driver has instructions never to have the radio on," he told a Manhattan courtroom. The jury found in his favour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Masson Posted December 17, 2008 Share Posted December 17, 2008 Did you read the info on that youtube link you provided? The video poster have been editing both tempo and keys. Make of it what you will. However, for those who are unaware, the tempo and keys HAVE been edited. I would never intend to trick anyone into believing that the two songs were IDENTICAL in these aspects. But think before suggesting that this makes the situation any different. Key and tempo are controllable variables, where as the main key to this argument is harmonically and melodically based. Key and tempo should be irrelevent in this respect. I must admit I didn't notice that. Even if I'm not a fan of either band (nor, by the way, have I been a Coldplay basher) I had heard both songs before the Youtube vid I posted, and haven't changed my mind. One thing with me, I tend to not take much notice of the exact key, and will often pick up songs without listening to them - in the wrong key! I guess at least partly that's because I don't really sing along with my guitar. But then, as you know, Swede, it's easy enough to use the same musical idea in different keys. That seems to me to be the case here. Not too serious?! And I thought your life depended upon it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigstickbonzo Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 If anything, Satriani is pissed no one outside of Guitar Center thinks much of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mad dog Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 If anything, Satriani is pissed no one outside of Guitar Center thinks much of him. Thats funny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pagemeister Posted December 18, 2008 Share Posted December 18, 2008 Let's Do the Music Theory: PART 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrycja Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 Let's Do the Music Theory: PART 1 That's an informative link. The only thing I don't get is his saying that two of three main elements of song creation are almost identical (though to me the melody is quite similar) and yet that is 'pretty poor odds' in court. I guess the hardest thing to prove is intent, which is apparently a component of copyright infringement? Again, even if Coldplay didn't mean to, it's surprising no one in the music biz around them didn't notice & made mention of the similarities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede Posted December 19, 2008 Share Posted December 19, 2008 I don't think that many people have heard the Satriani song, including the label/studio personel. I mean, Satriani had his fame in the late 80's/early 90's, he's more or less forgotten by anyone that isn't a real guitarfreak and frequently read the guitar mags.. I would say, most pop songs have already been written and song structures, rhythm and melodies are reinvented all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Pagemeister Posted December 20, 2008 Share Posted December 20, 2008 I think in court, you may have to prove that Cold Play heard the Satriani music, which would be hard since Satriani is a bit obscure. Often times there are songs that sound similar to other songs, and it never becomes a legal issue. Listen to how similar these two songs are: Sammy Hagar - Mas Tequila Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Todd Snider on Garth Brooks' theft of Todd's song "Beer Run": Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Just like Queen's Under Pressure "reworked" as Ice Ice Baby! Regg, do you remember the interview on MTV with Vanilla Ice-trying to explain the difference between his songs riff and Queen's? I can only imagine (the conversation with his management/producer, etc.before the interview) who put him up to go on TV and say the things he said in defense of his track, as if to not even acknowledge that he "borrowed" the main riff of the song...That was one for the books there buddy. Pure comedy. http://youtu.be/1s0hEi8zhmg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 This was posted in response to a discussion about the recent controversy surrounding Dierks Bentley stealing a song from Jason Isbell. The clip I posted above from Todd Snider is also well worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenman Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I think in court, you may have to prove that Cold Play heard the Satriani music, which would be hard since Satriani is a bit obscure. Often times there are songs that sound similar to other songs, and it never becomes a legal issue. Obviously we've now seen this wasnt the case and I suspect the fact that Satriani is fairly obscure and in a very different branch of music is why they felt they could get away with it. Actually even before this I always thought Satrini would be a potential goldmine for covers since what tends to set him appart from the rest of the shredders is that many of this tracks have very strong melodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Nirvana did similar when they were "influenced" by a UK band named Killing Joke. Killing Joke's "Eighties" was the basis for "Come As You Are". Unfortunately this happens a lot. In the old days rock bands lifted blues tunes, more recently they just lift from each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Forget the Satriani song rip...I highly doubt anyone in Coldplay listens to Satriani, and like Swede said, the Coldplay clip was altered. The more obvious and relevant song Coldplay ripped off was Ride's "Dreams Burn Down" from 1990. Listen and compare: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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