JPJ almost leaving the band

[bigstickbonzo]

Do you really

believe the prestigious Winchester Cathedral would hire a life long rock musician to hold such a prominent position in their church? I highly doubt it.

I think his professionalism has always spoken for itself.

[ally]

I have to dispute this. The lack of support offered by Jonesy and JP to Robert after the death of his son was far more crucial to the interpersonal relationships of the band than Robert's "parking the car" comment.

This has alway's puzzled me Kneb. Why were they so non supportive ? I was disappointed when I first heard about this and I must say that it changed my opinion of the band to a certain degree.

Maybe it was just the circumstances at the time but.....

[mos6507]

I have to dispute this. The lack of support offered by Jonesy and JP to Robert after the death of his son was far more crucial to the interpersonal relationships of the band than Robert's "parking the car" comment.

If you can provide evidence that Robert was hurt by that, I'd believe you. Robert said that the band did not hang around eachother that much during their "family time" (unless they were making music like they did in Wales) so it might have been seen as a sign of respect to let Robert mourn on his own.

[SteveAJones]

Whether the comment was tongue-in-cheek or not, I have absolutely no doubt that any establishment that needed an accomplished musician - religious or otherwise - would have no hestitation whatsoever in hiring Jonesy.

...but in this case it's a very prestigious Catholic establishment, perhaps the grandest in all of England and as such I find it hard to imagine they'd appoint a non-pilgrim/outsider

to such an important position, if only for sake of the church's tradition and politics:

http://www.ofchoristers.net/Chapters/Winch...rChoristers.htm

It is for this very reason I believe Peter was speaking very tongue-in-cheek about JPJ.

[SteveAJones]

If you can provide evidence that Robert was hurt by that, I'd believe you. Robert said that the band did not hang around eachother that much during their "family time" (unless they were making music like they did in Wales) so it might have been seen as a sign of respect to let Robert mourn on his own.

It's mentioned in either the Davis or the Cole book. Regardless, I believe reconciliation and collective understanding was arrived at between them some time afterward. Not

to make excuses, but JPJ was traveling separately with his family in the US on that leg of the tour. I've never seen any evidence to suggest Jimmy left California for New

Orleans or even England for that matter immediately after it happened. It's clear Jimmy was not in the best condition following that weekend in Oakland; his judgement may well have been impaired at the time of the loss and during the ensuing time off. Bonzo

and Dennis Sheehan accompanied Robert home via Newark International & Heathrow.

[AllisonAdler]

...but in this case it's a very prestigious Catholic establishment, perhaps the grandest in all of England and as such I find it hard to imagine they'd appoint a non-pilgrim/outsider

to such an important position, if only for sake of the church's tradition and politics:

http://www.ofchoristers.net/Chapters/Winch...rChoristers.htm

It is for this very reason I believe Peter was speaking very tongue-in-cheek about JPJ.

(!) Uh, that would be Church of England, Steve (Jane Austen is buried there--an Anglican if ever there was one). And as far as I know, Jonesey and family have always been on the inside of that institution! I'm sure it was a serious statement, anyway--JPJ's first love was the organ. Anyway, someone should visit his board and ask him.

[beatbo]

It is for this very reason I believe Peter was speaking very tongue-in-cheek about JPJ.

i agree, steve. the whole interview should be read. peter grant is quite the card and raconteur....he is also blindingly honest. end result: he's telling a true story the way any story should be told.

well.

if i can this week, i will try to post this interview.

[kirchzep27]

I have to dispute this. The lack of support offered by Jonesy and JP to Robert after the death of his son was far more crucial to the interpersonal relationships of the band than Robert's "parking the car" comment.

I dont think anyone can discuss this, but the band themselves. And the -parking the car comment was always taken as a joke by me. its obvious! right? Plant and Jones were running the band basically on the last record and the comments have always been positive that i've read.

If there are any -disputes, i'd think it was between page and plant...yet they toured together in the 90s. After the show in december, i'd think that showed that issues could be cleared up.

[SteveAJones]

Plant and Jones were running the band basically on the last record

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I'd say they strongly influenced the content on ITTOD if only because they were usually the first to arrive at the studio.

[SteveAJones]

(!) Uh, that would be Church of England, Steve (Jane Austen is buried there--an Anglican if ever there was one). And as far as I know, Jonesey and family have always been on the inside of that institution! I'm sure it was a serious statement, anyway--JPJ's first love was the organ. Anyway, someone should visit his board and ask him.

I don't see a bishop, let alone a vicar, endorsing his appointment to the position. Setting

all that aside, Westminster is no where near where he was living at the time and he had

just bought his home a few years prior. I can't see him uprooting them to take that job.

I'm fairly certain Peter said on other occasions his intent to leave was not that serious.

It was simply to do with the incessant touring -- ultimately they went on hiatus from July 31 1973 until January 1975.

[kirchzep27]

Well, I wouldn't go that far. I'd say they strongly influenced the content on ITTOD if only because they were usually the first to arrive at the studio.

I guess thats not totally accurate that they were running the band, but yeah, -page and -bonham were still living the rock and roll lifestyle from what we've read.

[Evster2012]

I guess thats not totally accurate that they were running the band, but yeah, -page and -bonham were still living the rock and roll lifestyle from what we've read.

Unlike a few years earlier:

Jones: I used to party with everybody else.

The promoter would say, "Where's Jonesy?"

They'd answer, "Oh, he'll be there."

And then I'd come out of the desert with a bus full of hippies.

The whole interview is really good. It's from awhile back, but a great read for this topic.

http://www.thecelebritycafe.com/interviews...paul_jones.html

[kirchzep27]

Unlike a few years earlier:

What do you mean? the 77tour...or -presence album.

[Evster2012]

What do you mean? the 77tour...or -presence album.

You'll have to ask him when it was specifically. I can only assume by his "bus full of hippies" remark that he was probably referring to earlier times. Obviously he was being at least somewhat tongue-in-cheek there. I just love the quote.

What he was really saying was that he didn't really party with the band so much. He had friends all over, and would leave the chaos of the hotel scene and generally party with his other friends in their respective towns as opposed to with the travelling circus and the media. He still partied, just in a less hectic scene.

[snapper]

I don't believe that JPJ ever considered leaving Led Zeppelin. Plant, yes, because he stated that he was "over it by '77", but yet, he was still there 3 years later to the bitter end.

Its not that easy to just walk away from the greatest rock band the planet will ever see,

and all four members of that band were well aware of that fact.

[kirchzep27]

You'll have to ask him when it was specifically. I can only assume by his "bus full of hippies" remark that he was probably referring to earlier times. Obviously he was being at least somewhat tongue-in-cheek there. I just love the quote.

What he was really saying was that he didn't really party with the band so much. He had friends all over, and would leave the chaos of the hotel scene and generally party with his other friends in their respective towns as opposed to with the travelling circus and the media. He still partied, just in a less hectic scene.

I thought you were referring to -page and bonhams input to the presence album compared to -in through the out door. I know page was wavering on the 77 tour, but the strength of the band kept it going ofcourse.

Oh, your talking about jpj there.

[Evster2012]

Yeah, you very rarely hear about Jones' lifestyle on the road (excpet of course the New Oeleans tale). It just goes to show that sometimes absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Jones just kept his partying out of the spotlight.

As for ITTOD, in the interviews I've read, Robert and Jones arrived at Polar before Jimmy and Bonzo. I don't really know how much Page and Bonham's substance use/abuse contributed to that. Jimmy hadn't picked up a guitar in months and Bonzo was enjoying life as a country gentleman, and getting very involved in Jason's love of dirtbike racing. I think maybe neither of them were totally motivated at the time, for varying reasons. Jimmy hadn't been writing and really had nothing to bring, so perhaps he didn't really feel ready, whereas Robert felt ready to make another go of it and Jones had continued writing during the hiatus, if only for his own enjoyment. So when they got to Sweden, they had stuff they wanted to get onto. By the time Page and Bonham came out, much groundwork had been laid. And while Bonzo clearly jumped in and got on with it, Page was still somewhat on the fringe of things. Not necessarily because of drugs, but rather that by the time he'd got there so much had gone down without him. He certainly made it clear that the next album would be harder, and he was passionate about that, and that was still before his drug use peaked, which of course was after Bonzo died, and with him, Page's baby. Led Zeppelin. Ever see a pic of Page in 1981-82? That was the dark time. He didn't pick up a guitar for two years.

[SteveAJones]

He didn't pick up a guitar for two years.

...only two exceptions here, a 3/10/81 jam on 'Goin Down' with Jeff Beck at the Odeon

in Hammersmith (which he never seems to recall ) and his studio work on the 'Death Wish II Soundtrack' completed in eight weeks (Sep-Oct 1981) to meet the deadline.

[Evster2012]

...only two exceptions here, a 3/10/81 jam on 'Goin Down' with Jeff Beck at the Odeon

in Hammersmith (which he never seems to recall ) and his studio work on the 'Death Wish II Soundtrack' completed in eight weeks (Sep-Oct 1981) to meet the deadline.

Noted. But I do think that was just testing the water. Poking his head out the door so to speak. He was still smacked out. He really wasn't motivated to get back to it in earnest until the point in the ARMS tour when Winwood was replaced by Paul Rodgers. That was the real turning point as I understand it. That's when Grant convinced them a mini-tour might be just the thing, and he quit heroin for good.

[SteveAJones]

I do think that was just testing the water. Poking his head out the door so to speak. He was still smacked out. He really wasn't motivated to get back to it in earnest until the point in the ARMS tour when Winwood was replaced by Paul Rodgers. That was the real turning point as I understand it. That's when Grant convinced them a mini-tour might be just the thing, and he quit heroin for good.

Agreed. In fact, with only one other exception - a 5/24/83 Guildford Civic Hall jam during Eric Clapton's encore ('Roll Over Beethoven', 'Further On Up The Road', & 'Cocaine') -

Jimmy didn't return to public performances post-Zeppelin until September 1983 for two

benefit shows in London, which lead to that ARMS tour in December.

It's worth noting the jam sessions (Beck & Clapton) and ARMS Tour involved life-long friends and the soundtrack came about thru his personal relationship with his neighbor, director Michael Winner. Clearly, he was getting by with a little help from his friends.

[MadScreamingGallery]

Yeah, you very rarely hear about Jones' lifestyle on the road (excpet of course the New Oeleans tale). It just goes to show that sometimes absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Jones just kept his partying out of the spotlight.

[...]

I actually think that is because (other than the New Orleans tale) there is very little to report about JPJ's behavior on the road. Or, very little that would interest people who are interested in the more "exciting" aspects of rockers' lives on the road. As far as I know, he didn't partake in some of the activities that interested some of the other members. I seem to remember that he was a photographer and would go off to explore and take photos of many of the places that the band visited when they were touring.

[Evster2012]

It's worth noting the jam sessions (Beck & Clapton) and ARMS Tour involved life-long friends and the soundtrack came about thru his personal relationship with his neighbor, director Michael Winner. Clearly, he was getting by with a little help from his friends.

That he was. Without question.

[mos6507]

I've seen enough pictures of JPJ side by side with the others in hotel rooms looking very mellow to know that he was not exactly curling up with a good book after every show. That's not to say he was throwing TVs out of windows or playing around with mud sharks. But he was definitely in the midst, so to speak, even if only as a bemused witness to the debauchery.

[MadScreamingGallery]

I've seen enough pictures of JPJ side by side with the others in hotel rooms looking very mellow to know that he was not exactly curling up with a good book after every show. That's not to say he was throwing TVs out of windows or playing around with mud sharks. But he was definitely in the midst, so to speak, even if only as a bemused witness to the debauchery.

I think that many of the photos that have emerged of the Zep guys in hotel rooms were taken by professional photographers (and/or members of the band's entourage?) so I am not sure that they present an accurate depiction of what actually transpired in those suites and rooms. JPJ wasn't the only one in the midst: there were plenty of other "bemused witnesses to the debauchery".

[stonefreelee]

Well the questions have really been answered. The way Zeppelin toured the first 5 years of the band really it would wear on anyone. They really had no break from the band from 1968 to 1971. They were either in the studio or on tour just about every day for about 4 years. That's tough on anyone. So Jonesy was probably considering taking the Winchester Cathedral job. But good thing he decided against it. I think it helped that Zepp basically took a break for a year. They did record some but it was on a much more loose schedule.

If Jones left the band who replace him, or does Zeppelin replace him? I think they do replace him simply because of how big Zeppelin was then and they still had some creativity to go. Jimmy and Robert and Bonzo loved their music and were still very passionate. And I'm not saying Jones wasn't passionate btw he was just tired of it all. But there would be 2 guys replacing Jones, making Zeppelin a 5 piece band. At bass probably Chris Dreja. I don't know about a keyboardist. There's no way they could find one guy that could do both bass and keyboards as good as JPJ.

I know it would have never happened, of course, but Ray Manzerak was a superb musician, professionally schooled at the prestigious Chicago Conservatory, although not a bass player. I know with the doors he (Ray) played bass pedals while simultaneously playing keys...I dont believe that would've worked in LZ, but imagine the musical possibilties if they had retained a bass player, as well....Led Zeppelin would not exist as we know them today!