Brits - North/South divide....

[Little Miss]

First of all I'd like to point out how disgusted I am that I used the term 'Brits'.... I'm sorry, it is truly awful.

Anyhoo...

As a native midlands lass (not Birmingham, by midlands I truly mean smack-bam in the middle of England) I encounter very few hardy northerners (until I moved to scouseland) or snobby southerners....I thought the north/south divide no longer existed..

In 'pool, where nearly all my friends are scousers, Mancunians, Yorks or what have you, southerners are considered snobby little pansies. True enough southerners are 4x more likely to dial 999...

...I recently worked with some students from Warwick Uni who socialise mainly with Londoners and whatever, and they told me how horribly snobby they are about thickit northern monkeys.

Does anyone here encounter this or hold these prejudices?

Pretty funny some of it really...

[Angel With A Broken Wing]

First of all I'd like to point out how disgusted I am that I used the term 'Brits'.... I'm sorry, it is truly awful.

Anyhoo...

As a native midlands lass (not Birmingham, by midlands I truly mean smack-bam in the middle of England) I encounter very few hardy northerners (until I moved to scouseland) or snobby southerners....I thought the north/south divide no longer existed..

In 'pool, where nearly all my friends are scousers, Mancunians, Yorks or what have you, southerners are considered snobby little pansies. True enough southerners are 4x more likely to dial 999...

...I recently worked with some students from Warwick Uni who socialise mainly with Londoners and whatever, and they told me how horribly snobby they are about thickit northern monkeys.

Does anyone here encounter this or hold these prejudices?

Pretty funny some of it really...

I don't know what you're talking about Little Miss, but I do sooo love your accent so keep chatting. And didn't know people still used the word "pansies"......I once had my mouth washed out with soap for calling my brother a pansy.

[Little Miss]

By pansy I don't mean gay...? I mean wimp, wuss, y'know.

[beatbo]

First of all I'd like to point out how disgusted I am that I used the term 'Brits'.... I'm sorry, it is truly awful.

Anyhoo...

As a native midlands lass (not Birmingham, by midlands I truly mean smack-bam in the middle of England) I encounter very few hardy northerners (until I moved to scouseland) or snobby southerners....I thought the north/south divide no longer existed..

In 'pool, where nearly all my friends are scousers, Mancunians, Yorks or what have you, southerners are considered snobby little pansies. True enough southerners are 4x more likely to dial 999...

...I recently worked with some students from Warwick Uni who socialise mainly with Londoners and whatever, and they told me how horribly snobby they are about thickit northern monkeys.

Does anyone here encounter this or hold these prejudices?

Pretty funny some of it really...

why do southerners snob on scousers? does it go way back or something? i seem to remember liverpool being a large port, lots of cotton, even slaves to be shipped back in the 1800's-what happened? industry dry up after ww2, 60's were swinging in london, blah, blah, blah?

well, 'fook that'....

how about some background for some thick americans with too much time on thier hands, little miss?

[Angel With A Broken Wing]

By pansy I don't mean gay...? I mean wimp, wuss, y'know.

Yeah, that's how I meant it too, a wuss, but my Mom took it as gay. Hell, I was too young at the time to even know what "gay" was.

[Little Miss]

why do southerners snob on scousers? does it go way back or something? i seem to remember liverpool being a large port, lots of cotton, even slaves to be shipped back in the 1800's-what happened? industry dry up after ww2, 60's were swinging in london, blah, blah, blah?

well, 'fook that'....

how about some background for some thick americans with too much time on thier hands, little miss?

I'd love to know myself - I've found scousers to be some of the friendliest and funniest people I've ever met. Very approachable and wittiers than other locals..

They have a reputation for being scallies on the rob, people up for a fight, trouble makers. It's just snobbery... scallies live in any big city, but true enough, scousers don't like being ripped off. A friend of mine worked in a holiday place abroad and was supposed to go round the tourists selling crap and well, basically ripping them off.... but they were told under no circumstances to approach anyone with a scouse accent, cause they'd deck 'em. Ha.

[ninelives]

Isn't that making rather sweeping generalisations? People are people. Some are good, some aren't. I never bought into the northern vs. southern thing. I've known people from all parts of England who are equally lovely, regardless of where they are from.

[Uncle Bill]

from wiki: "Inhabitants of Liverpool are called Liverpudlians, but are more often described by the colloquialism Scousers."

I can see why, lol.

[TheZeppyWanderer]

the Wolverhampton - Walsall corridor is the furthest you can get from the seaside in the UK, which begs the question : where do we fit in as regards the North/South divide .... ?

where does North begin and the South end ... ?

Or am I in the "Neutral zone "

[longdistancewinner]

I'm from Nottingham so I never really bought into the whole North/South thing, probably because to Southerners I'm a Northerner and to the Northerners I'm a Southerner.

I've got friends and family from the North and South and neither have ever really said anything derogatory about the other.

I'll only ever feel Northern when I say something that someone from the South doesn't understand - like mardy or cob. But then, some of my family say some of the weirdest shit and I feel totally lost - my uncle always used to ask how I was in 'mesen' (myself).

[beatbo]

the Wolverhampton - Walsall corridor is the furthest you can get from the seaside in the UK, which begs the question : where do we fit in as regards the North/South divide .... ?

where does North begin and the South end ... ?

Or am I in the "Neutral zone "

i guess that depends.....does wolverhampton beat liverpool at the football match?

[TheZeppyWanderer]

i guess that depends.....does wolverhampton beat liverpool at the football match?

only if THEY (Liverpool) leave half their team in the dressing room

[Bonham]

If you're from the West, Southerners will call you a cornish prick. East, I'm not sure.

[Little Miss]

Question: does it infuriate you (even a little) when Americans or whomever say 'British' accent?

What in the hell is a British accent? Which accent of literally hundreds is the definitive 'British' one?

My oh my.

[beatbo]

Question: does it infuriate you (even a little) when Americans or whomever say 'British' accent?

What in the hell is a British accent? Which accent of literally hundreds is the definitive 'British' one?

My oh my.

which ever accent john lennon uses in hard days night is fookin cool with me...

[rosiegirl]

Question: does it infuriate you (even a little) when Americans or whomever say 'British' accent?

What in the hell is a British accent? Which accent of literally hundreds is the definitive 'British' one?

My oh my.

When you hear an American speak, don't you consider that an American accent? Or can you tell where the person is from ? We also have many accents, North, South, East and West. But it would not offend me at all if someone said I have an American accent.

[Bonham]

When you hear an American speak, don't you consider that an American accent? Or can you tell where the person is from ? We also have many accents, North, South, East and West. But it would not offend me at all if someone said I have an American accent.

Yes, but England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland make up what Britain is. If it's an English accent, you call it an English accent - not British. There are many types of English accent, but they're all primarily English.

[longdistancewinner]

Question: does it infuriate you (even a little) when Americans or whomever say 'British' accent?

What in the hell is a British accent? Which accent of literally hundreds is the definitive 'British' one?

My oh my.

For me, the singular most annoying thing about American's, or any nation that does it, is to say we speaking with a 'British' accent - that or being called a 'Brit'. Eurgh.

Thing is though, when someone says you have a 'British' accent they sort of forget that four countries comprise of Britain - England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland - and all four like to see themselves as independant nations in themselves. So, they are, in a way, losing their own little cultural stamp on the world by being lumped into one nation. That's how I see it, anyway.

I may be British, but I was born in England so my accent is ENGLISH, my dialect is East Midland.

I don't see how the same could be applicable to Americans. No disrepect or anything but it's all the same country. The accent will always be American English, just the regional dialect that makes it different in various states.

Gah! Bonham, you beat me to it.

[Electrophile]

I don't expect some Joe Blow in Topeka to know the difference between a Liverpool accent and a London accent the same as I don't expect Joe Blow in London to know the difference between the way people speak in Chicago and the way they speak in Minnesota. Some accents are obvious; New York, Boston, Southern......the rest, ain't so obvious unless you're from here.

If I say British accent, that means English. If I mean Welsh accent or Irish accent or Scots accent, I say that particular descriptor. I would think for most other people in the world, the same applies. If someone says I have an American accent, and they're obviously not from the US, I don't get hypersensitive and say "How dare you, I have a upper Midwestern/Ohio Valley accent!". They'd look at me like I wasn't speaking English.

I don't see how the same could be applicable to Americans. No disrepect or anything but it's all the same country. The accent will always be American English, just the regional dialect that makes it different in various states.

In the United States, each part of the country has a different way of speaking based on the people that predominately made up the settlers to that region. And it's passed on through the generations until you get to today. The Midwest was mostly Scandinavian. The Northeast, mostly English (from England) and Irish. The West, mostly Spanish, same goes for the Southwest. The South, mostly Black African and Creole and Native American. Some parts of West Virginia were founded by the Scots-Irish and they have their own way of talking. Amish country is Pennsylvania Dutch which is ITS own way of talking.

The language is American English, the accent is something altogether different.

Edit: BTW, I'm getting really annoyed at every time people want to complain about something, it's always "Americans this" and "Americans that". It's starting to get old. Really, really old.

[rosiegirl]

Yes, but England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland make up what Britain is. If it's an English accent, you call it an English accent - not British. There are many types of English accent, but they're all primarily English.

You are right, in general I would say this person has an English accent, but when I hear a person from Ireland speak I can tell the difference. But no sometimes I can't tell the difference between England, Scotland, or Whales. I still do not see why it would trouble you so. There is such a big difference between someone from N.Y. and someone from Texas, but if other people bunch us all together as American, well thats fine with me, its all good.

[Hickory Man]

Question: does it infuriate you (even a little) when Americans or whomever say 'British' accent?

What in the hell is a British accent? Which accent of literally hundreds is the definitive 'British' one?

My oh my.

I think Americans are used to using the term British to quickly differentiate between English the people, and english the language. Having quite a large percentage of english as a 2nd language inhabitants here guarantees that "english accent" will not usually be taken to mean England.

[longdistancewinner]

If I say British accent, that means English. If I mean Welsh accent or Irish accent or Scots accent, I say that particular descriptor. I would think for most other people in the world, the same applies. If someone says I have an American accent, and they're obviously not from the US, I don't get hypersensitive and say "How dare you, I have a upper Midwestern/Ohio Valley accent!". They'd look at me like I wasn't speaking English.

In the United States, each part of the country has a different way of speaking based on the people that predominately made up the settlers to that region. And it's passed on through the generations until you get to today. The Midwest was mostly Scandinavian. The Northeast, mostly English (from England) and Irish. The West, mostly Spanish, same goes for the Southwest. The South, mostly Black African and Creole and Native American. Some parts of West Virginia were founded by the Scots-Irish and they have their own way of talking. Amish country is Pennsylvania Dutch which is ITS own way of talking.

But what you 'say' doesn't go. If you say 'you speak British' to some English people, you'll probably get their back's up, if for no other reason than for the fact that Britain is comprised of four countries. Say which one you mean - it's either Welsh, Scottish, Irish or (big shock) English. England is also a country in itself, so we don't speak with a British accent.

I'm not quite understanding your argument about America. You're saying that various states speak with different accents because they are heralded from different languages? Fine, I get that. But, to have a Welsh accent means to be from Wales, to have a Scottish accent means to be from Scotland. To have a Pennsylvanian Dutch accent means to be from...? Well, an area of America that speaks Pennyslvanian Dutch. So, if someone says you're American, because, unless you're from another country, you ARE American. The states may be different and have different origins, but they are all ONE country. I'll say it again - Britain is FOUR.

[Electrophile]

I'm not quite understanding your argument about America. You're saying that various states speak with different accents because they are heralded from different languages? Fine, I get that. But, to have a Welsh accent means to be from Wales, to have a Scottish accent means to be from Scotland. To have a Pennsylvanian Dutch accent means to be from...? Well, an area of America that speaks Pennyslvanian Dutch. So, if someone says you're American, because, unless you're from another country, you ARE American. The states may be different and have different origins, but they are all ONE country. I'll say it again - Britain is FOUR.

I don't see how anything I said was confusing. I'm not talking about states. I'm talking about regions of the country. Which is not the same as states. States make up the regions, but the two words are not synonymous. The South has a distinct accent. The Northeast has two distinct accents; New York and Boston. And in New York, there are accents depending on if you're from Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx, Staten Island and Manhattan.

This is the most confusing statement of all -->

So, if someone says you're American, because, unless you're from another country, you ARE American.

Well duh, no one is saying otherwise. I'm saying there's no such thing as an "American" accent. Because there isn't. No one here speaks "American". We speak English, with varying accents and dialects. The same as you speak English, with varying accents and dialects, depending on where you are. I brought up the example of someone saying I speak with an American accent. They would be wrong, as that concept doesn't exist. If someone were to ask me what accent I have, it would upper Midwest/Ohio Valley. The same as people where I live have Southern accents. And in various parts of the South, the accents are different. People in Virginia don't have the same accent as people in Florida. And they don't have the same accent as people in Louisiana. And so forth and so on.

This is rather straightforward.

[Bonham]

So, for example: If the Welsh speak English, and Americans speak English, doesn't that mean we all have an English accent?

English originated in England, thanks to the Anglos and Saxons, therefor anyone born and raised in England will have an English accent. There's a difference between speaking English and having an English accent.

For centuries we have crafted this magnificent accent of ours, people outside of our language who learn English bring a new accent, but of their own country. You think the Scots were always speaking English? No. Or the Irish? No.

That's why, when someone from Ireland speaks in English, we say that is an Irish accent. Because speaking English is a huge step from speaking Gaelic, of course it's going to sound funny. Just like when someone French speaks English. It's their language, mixed with ours, forming an accent of theirs! It's too confusing now!

[Aquamarine]

You were doing fine until that last sentence.

Never mind, you just changed it. Though now I'd query the idea of an Irish accent sounding "funny."