Revolution?

[ZPN]

I agree. But the very idea that we shouldn't allow the President to talk to school kids about staying in school and persevering and making something of themselves because some moron thinks it's "indoctrinating" them is unconscionable. Oh yeah, how dare the President tell school kids to value education. The bastard.

Thank you.

[ZPN]

Yes I know this is a link to DailyKos, but it has the video I need to prove a point I'm making. Here's George H.W. Bush giving a speech/talk meant to be shown to school kids.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/9/3/776393/-Another-wingnut-meme-goes-down-the-drain

My God, look at that indoctrination and brainwashing. How dare he. HOW DARE HE.

PS let's hope the kiddies didn't listen to GWB too carefully-as Steve Martin once said, "Some people have a way with words, other people...not have way".

But maybe I'm misunderestimating him.

[ZPN]

Here is where I display my exceptional critical thinking abilities. Why doesn't Barack Hussein Obama address the school children in a prime time address over multi-media simulcast? Great question and I'm glad you asked. The

answer is because there's a greater likelihood for parental supervision. By conducting this during the school day

parents are excluded and the children can be guided by an "educator" with "a lesson plan". Do you not realize

one of the first things most cults and some religions purposefully do is separate the parents from their children?

My parents didn't sit next to me at school all day to make sure everything I read or saw on a filmstrip/movie was free of indoctrination, or demand to see all of my teachers' lesson plans. I and I'm sure the vast majority of my classmates turned out fine. I also was a teacher for a while, and wasn't trying to get my students to join a religion (it was a Catholic school and by that time in my life, I wasn't a practicing Catholic, or a member of any religion) or a cult. I was teaching them music!

[ZPN]

So no, I'm NOT surprised they don't think Obama should be talking to kids about education. Education is like kryptonite to these neocon shitheads.

Do you listen to the Stephanie Miller Show?

I was wondering because they use the term "gay abortions".

Her Dad ran with Barry Goldwater, and she often says if her Dad was alive, he wouldn't recognize the Republican Party.

Her show is hillarious (if you already listen, you know that!).

Her "voice monkey/deity" (Jim "Louise" Ward)just won an emmy for voicework he did on some cartoon.

Actor/Comedian Hal Sparks is filling in for Steph & her 2 guys this week while they're on vacation. Hal is very bright and very funny!

[Nathan]

I think she was the one who came up with the idea that there would be "death panels"

with Public Option.

Actually, no. One of the originators of the Death Panel bullshit was Betsy McCaughey:

on the Daily show 1

on the Daily show 2

on the Daily show 3

[Electrophile]

Actually, no. One of the originators of the Death Panel bullshit was Betsy McCaughey:

on the Daily show 1

on the Daily show 2

on the Daily show 3

Yeah and as a result of that shit-tastically embarrassing performance on TDS, she got fired the next day.

[ZPN]

Truly shocked no one's addressed my question of whether Public Option is off the table, would it change your thinking!

If Public Option is off the table, I'll be very upset. That isn't a change in my thinking. My first choice if it were up to me has always been Single Payer. Second choice would be a plan that includes a Public Option/Choice. If we don't get public option, I don't think things will improve enough to matter, for the uninsured or the insured.

[ZPN]

Actually, no. One of the originators of the Death Panel bullshit was Betsy McCaughey:

on the Daily show 1

on the Daily show 2

on the Daily show 3

I may watch that link, though I may wind up throwing something (shoes?)at my tv. BETSY.

The name alone makes me want to hurl.

[Nathan]

Yeah and as a result of that shit-tastically embarrassing performance on TDS, she got fired the next day.

Seriously? I didn't know that...

Awesome!

I may watch that link, though I may wind up throwing something (shoes?)at my tv. BETSY.

The name alone makes me want to hurl.

Oh, she will piss you off to be sure... but watching Jon's pwnage of her is worth the pain of listening to her talk. Trust me.

Someone on another board put it very well (she brought the first half of the 1500-page plan to the show):

She brought the book and he hit her over the head with it. It was the best case of pwnage in TV.

In a painful way it's very satisfying...

[ZPN]

Seriously? I didn't know that...

Awesome!

Oh, she will piss you off to be sure... but watching Jon's pwnage of her is worth the pain of listening to her talk. Trust me.

Someone on another board put it very well (she brought the first half of the 1500-page plan to the show):

In a painful way it's very satisfying...

This may be a dumb question, but what does pwnage mean?

[ZPN]

OMG-Olbermann is playing footage of Glen Beck explaining communist symbols (including "WEED"?!) in the architecture of Rockefeller Center. This guy is REALLY nuts.

[Electrophile]

This may be a dumb question, but what does pwnage mean?

pwn = 1337(leet)-speak for "own". If you "pwn" someone, you've exposed their stupidity for the world to see. Pwnage would be the noun and pwn is the verb.

Please don't ask me why or how I know this garbage. Just smile and nod.

[Nathan]

This may be a dumb question, but what does pwnage mean?

Urban Dictionary - Pwnage

Yeah... I know... stupid teenage gamer lingo speak.

I am embarrassed to admit... I occasionally indulge...

pwn= 1337(leet)-speak for "own". If you "pwn" someone, you've exposedtheir stupidity for the world to see. Pwnage would be the noun and pwnis the verb.

Please don't ask me why or how I know this garbage. Just smile and nod.

[Electrophile]

OMG-Olbermann is playing footage of Glen Beck explaining communist symbols (including "WEED"?!) in the architecture of Rockefeller Center. This guy is REALLY nuts.

Glenn Beck is IMO, mentally unstable. I would not go so far as to say he's mentally ill, but he's definitely unhinged. My dad watches him occasionally, mostly for laughs, and one time I was grabbing a can of pop out of the fridge and Beck is rambling about how Obama wants to turn our children into a socialist version of the Hitler Youth. I actually turned around and said "WTF?" as though someone just told me that sky is red and that it rains trees.

[Evster2012]

If Public Option is off the table, I'll be very upset. That isn't a change in my thinking. My first choice if it were up to me has always been Single Payer. Second choice would be a plan that includes a Public Option/Choice. If we don't get public option, I don't think things will improve enough to matter, for the uninsured or the insured.

Thank you for at least putting forth your feelings were this to be what we're dealt. I'm no prognosticator, but as McCartney said "I've Got a Feelin"!

[ZPN]

pwn = 1337(leet)-speak for "own". If you "pwn" someone, you've exposed their stupidity for the world to see. Pwnage would be the noun and pwn is the verb.

Please don't ask me why or how I know this garbage. Just smile and nod.

Now I'm MORE confused! What is =1337 (leet)?

Perhaps this has something to do with text messaging, which I'm clueless about?

Signed,

Half Smiling and Half Nodding

[Electrophile]

Now I'm MORE confused! What is =1337 (leet)?

Perhaps this has something to do with text messaging, which I'm clueless about?

Signed,

Half Smiling and Half Nodding

1337-speak doesn't have anything to do with text messaging, it's actually to do with gamers or people who play video games. I don't get it either, don't feel bad. I'm 27 and sometimes I feel like this stuff leaves me out of the loop.

[BIGDAN]

BIGDAN -

If you'll read my post carefully, it isn't directed AT people from the UK.

The comments I referred to were people from America holding up the UK as an example.

If that wasn't as clear as I intended, my bad.

I've never been to the UK, or experienced care from NHS, and my post didn't criticize NHS in any way.

My use of the word "pointless" wasn't directed at you or anyone from the UK, it was directed at the tactic of pointing to the UK as an example.

Honestly, no.

That is, unless you know thousands and thousands of people from which to base a realistic cross-section representative of the population.

For every person you know who has received our "health(don't) care", I am quite comfortable in assuring you I know 5 who are absolutely satisfied with the care they have received and continue to receive.

Again, I meant no offense to you or any other citizen of the UK, as my remarks weren't directed at you personally, but rather at the faulty logic that because people from the UK are satisfied with NHS, America would be as well.

It's simply not a valid argument, for the very reasons I stated.

Hi TypoO,

I hear you and appologise for my missreading of your post, but my opinion of what i said about a Country like yours not giving Free Health Care to all its Citizens still stands. It if far better for "Everybody" to pay a little than for "All" to be at the mercy of changing financial circumstances and be left with no health care, for these People it is "Health Dont Care" and this is unacceptable in a Modern First World Country like yourselves, and its not just my opinion.

As for knowing thousands of people from which to base a realistic cross-section representative of the population, well you know the answer to that, nobody knows thousands of people, period.

At the end of the day it is for you People in America to Vote for what suits you, and for the rest of the World to Judge you on your choice, just because you are the Biggest Economy, Biggest Millitary, and Biggest Spender in the World does not mean you cannot also make the Biggest Mistakes in the World does it?

I'm totally satisfied with my treatment in the NHS, i paid my Contributions all my working life, just like you pay your Contributions to your Health Plan Company, only difference is that when i cant work and cant pay my Contributions any more i'm credited with any further Contributions and not "thrown to the vultures" because i cannot pay. Thats why i say that England is the "Home of Modern Civilisation" because we care for those who cant care for themselves, but that my friend may change in the very near future.

No offence taken or given in this argument, TypeO, Regards, Danny

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

Hi BIGDAN,

How are you today?

You must realize that in this world of ours, nothing is "free". There is no such thing as "free health care". Somebody is paying. Using your figures from a previous post, if I make $500,000 per year as a productive, contributing citizen of your country, then I will be taxed at 5%, or $25,000 for my "free" health care. Then, as an employer, also, I will be taxed an additional 12.8%, or $64,000, for a grand total of $89,000 for my "free" health care. And then if I want better care than what the government provides, and I don't want to wait for it as I may die in the interim, I can purchase at my own expense better healthcare by buying private insurance or paying for it entirely "out of pocket". Wow, I love this "free" healthcare! It's only costing me about $100,000, or 25% of my gross income!

And it is a myth that people without insurance cannot get health care. There is a law in the US that provides compassionate care to anyone who goes to an Emergency Room at a hospital that receives any money from the government, such as medicare payments. These patients are provided care and treatment regardless of ability to pay. No one can be turned away. People take advantage of this and go for assinine reasons, as well as true emergencies. This "compassionate" law allows people to forgo paying for insurance or medical care, allowing them to be irresponsible, spending their money on cigarettes, alcohol, illlegal drugs and fast food, which in turn makes them even more unhealthy, contributing to the rising cost of healthcare. The hospitals need money to operate, so they charge the paying patients with insurance higher fees to off-set this "free" care. Or, as is happening in alot of big cities in the US, the hospitals are being forced to close, as the uninsured are costing so much with their "free" care that the hospitals don't have enough money to operate.

I know the situation first hand, as my husband is a physician working at a hospital. He cares for patients without any knowledge of method of payment. Everyone gets equal care. No one is turned away because they can't pay. And a large number of the non-payers are obese, alcoholics, smoke 3 packs of cigarettes a day, and take illegal drugs. They spend more money on their vices than they would on medical insurance. It's just how they choose to spend their money, and they "chose" not to spend it on their health. They think that someone else should pay for it, and they do not take resposibility for themselves. And our social systems "enable" them to live this way, promoting this behavior.

So you can see why the most productive, responsible, contributing to society members of our country don't want your "free" Nationalized Health Care. It is not free for us.

[BIGDAN]

Once upon a time America was a superpower and leader of the free world. To harbor concern for how the rest of the world may "judge" shows it's subtle but pervasive socialist tendencies now.

Hi Steve,

America is still a "Super Power" and the "Leader of the Free World" as far as i'm concerned, but the Arrogance that it is showing now is leading it down the road to Hell, and i think that America is Better than that and its Great People are worthy of better leadership and guidance, just my honest opinion you understand Steve?

The conclusion that i have come to is this,

1. The American Elite, the Wealthy and its Judiciary and Law Makers and Enforcers only interests are with keeping the Status Quo or improving their Lot. And they call this "Democracy".

2. Untill this thinking ends America in Particular and the World in General it will only make People's lives less tolerable and they will be more prone to Rebel and Revolt and to Terrorise untill they are heard and something is done to reverse what they are going through.

3. All the Money you spend on Preventing Terrorism will in fact backfire on you and will not only perpetuate Terrorism but will encourage it to expand and in the end, Consume you and us as well.

4. The Answer is simple, become more "Social", treat the people Well and they in turn will make you as a Nation, Richer, treat them Bad and all their Dreams will die and only hatred will prevail in their hearts. Just look at America, and England, do you see a Nation of Good Hard Working People or one of Discontented Youths and Depressed Parents?

The Answer is quite simple, to put in in to practice is a little harder.

"We can Satisfy the Needs of the World, the Greed of the World can never be Satisfied"

Regards, Danny

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

Hi Steve,

America is still a "Super Power" and the "Leader of the Free World" as far as i'm concerned, but the Arrogance that it is showing now is leading it down the road to Hell, and i think that America is Better than that and its Great People are worthy of better leadership and guidance, just my honest opinion you understand Steve?

The conclusion that i have come to is this,

1. The American Elite, the Wealthy and its Judiciary and Law Makers and Enforcers only interests are with keeping the Status Quo or improving their Lot. And they call this "Democracy".

2. Untill this thinking ends America in Particular and the World in General it will only make People's lives less tolerable and they will be more prone to Rebel and Revolt and to Terrorise untill they are heard and something is done to reverse what they are going through.

3. All the Money you spend on Preventing Terrorism will in fact backfire on you and will not only perpetuate Terrorism but will encourage it to expand and in the end, Consume you and us as well.

4. The Answer is simple, become more "Social", treat the people Well and they in turn will make you as a Nation, Richer, treat them Bad and all their Dreams will die and only hatred will prevail in their hearts. Just look at America, and England, do you see a Nation of Good Hard Working People or one of Discontented Youths and Depressed Parents?

The Answer is quite simple, to put in in to practice is a little harder.

"We can Satisfy the Needs of the World, the Greed of the World can never be Satisfied"

Regards, Danny

Oh my, Danny,

Sounds like you are leaning toward communism. You are promoting bringing down the people who are working, earning, and with their efforts, making society better for everyone as well as benefiting themselves just to even the playing field and to offset those who are less fortunate. Classic steal from the rich to give to the poor. This strategy has been proven to be unsuccessful. You don't punish the rich. They are the ones contributing to the charities, volunteering, working on ways to make the world in general more prosperous. You can't raise the poor up by punishing and bringing down the rich. Period. And social revolts, as you are referring to in your number 2, only hurt the poor in the long run. Look at the French Revolution. It didn't make life better for the poor, it only allowed Napoleon to rise to power years later. The poor were the ones conscripted to his armies where millions lost their lives in the egomaniac's quest to conquer the world.

Becoming more social, as you suggest, will only serve to deplete our treasury with the government's excess spending in the name of socialism. The long term result will be that all citizens will become dependent on the government for everything and will cease to be productive. Those working will pay astronimical taxes to support those who choose not to work, and they will get tired of working without personal gain, so no one will work anymore. No new inventions, breakthroughs, innovations, ideas to benefit society. The decline of our nation will insue. But I gather that this is what you want, as evidenced by your disparaging remarks about America.

[Nathan]

That's too uncomfortably similar to this to be the right answer:

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need (or needs) is a slogan popularized by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Program. The phrase summarizes the principles that, under a communist system, every person should contribute to society to the best of his ability and consume from society in proportion to his needs, regardless of how much he has contributed. In the Marxist view, such an arrangement will be made possible by the abundance of goods and services that a developed communist society will produce; the idea is that there will be enough to satisfy everyone's needs.

Okay... I need to point this out.

You do realize that Marx's idea of government is actually considered the best government put down on paper, right? And in case you want to cherry-pick my statement here:

Last semester one of my classes was a Government class. My teacher... well... Steve... you would have loved him. You two would agree, politically, on everything. He was very Conservative... possibly even more Conservative then you. Even he, as Conservative as he was, told us that Marx's Communism is beautiful on paper but impossible in practice.

The issue with Communism is not how it's described. It's that Marx made a fundamental mistake in his "creation" of Communism: not accounting for Human Nature. In a Utopian world, we probably would live in a Communist world. But we would also not be greedy or power-hungry. Because of those two things, Communism will inevitably fail in a human society. In other words, true Communism is impossible because of humanity.

The Communism being practiced and the Communism Marx wrote about are two very different things and I'll bet you anything that if Marx were alive today, he would not be happy seeing what's become of his idea of the perfect government. I do think he's rolling in his grave, his vision being distorted by greed and power.

Just needed to ensure that this distinction was noted: the Communism being practiced is not the Communism Marx wrote about. It may use the same rhetoric, but that's about it.

[cryingbluerain]

Obama: "Judge me by the people who surround me"...

Van Jones: Special adviser and green-jobs czar. Self-proclaimed radical and co-founder of the communist-affiliated group STORM. He sits on the board of the Apollo Alliance, which is a special-interest group that supported Obama. The group helped write the stimulus bill. According to Harry Reid, "The Apollo Alliance has been an important factor in helping us develop and execute a strategy that makes great progress on these goals in motivating the public to support them." The New York chair of the Apollo Alliance is Jeff Jones, co-founder of the domestic terrorist group the Weather Underground. The other co-founder was Bill Ayers, the former controversial friend of Obama. When asked what a green-jobs czar does, Jones said: "What I do, to kind of make it simple, I'm basically a community organizer inside the federal government." Why is Apollo Alliance even involved in writing an emergency Recovery Act bill that has funneled money to groups like ACORN? We were told the legislation would produce jobs and stimulate our economy.

Mark Lloyd: Federal Communications Commission diversity chief. In 2006 he wrote the book "Prologue to a Farce: Communications and Democracy in America." He wrote, "It should be clear by now that my focus here is not freedom of speech or the press. ... This freedom is all too often an exaggeration. ... At the very least, blind references to freedom of speech or the press serve as a distraction from the critical examination of other communications policies." He considers freedom of speech a distraction. This Obama appointee has proposed a tax on radio companies that would equal 100 percent of their operating budgets. If you can't pay, you would lose your license, which would be sold to a minority group. If you can pay the tax, that money would go to the government-run National Public Radio. So much for free public speech on the radio.

Cass Sunstein: Regulatory czar. He proposed bans on hunting and eating meat. He believes your dog has a right to an attorney in court. He supports a bill that would give Obama emergency control of the Internet.

John Holdren: Science czar. He once proposed compulsory sterilization to control the population.

Ezekiel Emmanuel: Health care adviser. He is a proponent of the "complete lives system," which puts values on lives based mostly on age.

Carol Browner: Global-warming czar. Associated with Socialist International, a group for global governance.

[Nathan]

Okay... I need to point this out.

You do realize that Marx's idea of government is actually considered the best government put down on paper, right? And in case you want to cherry-pick my statement here:

Last semester one of my classes was a Government class. My teacher... well... Steve... you would have loved him. You two would agree, politically, on everything. He was very Conservative... possibly even more Conservative then you. Even he, as Conservative as he was, told us that Marx's Communism is beautiful on paper but impossible in practice.

The issue with Communism is not how it's described. It's that Marx made a fundamental mistake in his "creation" of Communism: not accounting for Human Nature. In a Utopian world, we probably would live in a Communist world. But we would also not be greedy or power-hungry. Because of those two things, Communism will inevitably fail in a human society. In other words, true Communism is impossible because of humanity.

The Communism being practiced and the Communism Marx wrote about are two very different things and I'll bet you anything that if Marx were alive today, he would not be happy seeing what's become of his idea of the perfect government. I do think he's rolling in his grave, his vision being distorted by greed and power.

Just needed to ensure that this distinction was noted: the Communism being practiced is not the Communism Marx wrote about. It may use the same rhetoric, but that's about it.

I'd like to add to this...

I'm willing to bet right now Steve that, at some point in your life, you lived in a small Communist society. In fact, most people live or have lived in a small Communist society. I live in a small Communist society right now.

Can you guess what I'm talking about?

[Reggie1971]

Glenn Beck is IMO, mentally unstable. I would not go so far as to say he's mentally ill, but he's definitely unhinged.

I would put Keith Olbermann in that category, except I would go so far as to say he's mentally ill.