Revolution?

[SteveAJones]

This was such a horrible speech.

It was. Did you not catch the undertone of surrogate parenthood in what he was saying. "I expect"....blah blah blah..."I expect..." wah wah wah. If only there were one critical thinker in the class brave enough to put up his

hand and remind the Omnipotent Orator he's going to be consigned to the dustbin of history in less than four

years if he doesn't shut up for a change and actually accomplish something...anything.

[Mary Hartman]

BIGDAN, you're a nice enough guy.

But these broad generalizations to justify labeling the U.S. as a terrorist state are really weak.

If you have to go back to taking the land from native Americans to make a point, it's a pretty lame point.

Terrorism has been re-defined so often in recent times as to make it practically undefinable.

Just look at this definition from Answers.com:

Unlawful?

Whose law?

The definition has been intentionally watered-down so as to lend itself to practically any use of force or war.

Wikipedia has a thoroughly expansive coverage of the topic as well, to include the following semi-reasonable list of key criteria to consider:

The U.S. is far from a terrorist state, and it's highly disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

Sorry, this is flawed.

Let's imagine you and I rob a store, the police come and we fire weapons at them, then they fire their weapons and you are killed.

Does that make the policeman who shot you a murderer?

No.

In fact, in my state there is a charge of felony murder, whereby if anyone dies during the commission of a felony (including the exact scenario I just proposed of you and I robbing a store), the perpetrators of the felony are held liable for the death with a charge of murder, even if they did not personally fire the fatal shot.

The liability stems from the fact that the perpetrator(s) created the environment that caused the death and are thus liable.

This is sensible and logical legislation that places liability and responsibility where it belongs - with those who create an environment where a death (innocent or otherwise) is likely to occur.

By the same very reasonable logic, when Hamas launches missiles from civilian neighborhoods, or Al-Qaeda fires RPGs from a mosque or apartment building, THEY are guilty of turning a civilian area into a combat zone, not the Israeli forces who send a missile right back where it was launched from, or the U.S. soldiers who return fire.

I have a hard time taking people serious when they quote rock stars or comedians as representative of their philosophy or way of thinking.

So often I hear Nathan praising Bill Hicks, others likewise with George Carlin.

You yourself just referred to John Lennon as representative of your opinion or point you were making.

It's actually ironic that the picture of Lennon you referred to (below) attributes a quote to Yoko Ono - "Negative thinking is a luxury we cannot afford."

If negative thinking is a luxury, then I would have to classify the blind utopian idealism John and Yoko embraced as masturbatory hedonistic extravagance.

IMO, people with foolish remarks think foolish thoughts. As far as the statement Yoko make to me. It had very much to do with not following negative thinkers.

The real question here is...how many times has Yoko spoken with people such as you?

Relating absurd sexual frenzy to a simple statement is not only the ideas of a simpleton, but the remark of an idiot.

As far as Yoko's full explanation of her remark to me? You would have had to have been there to have known fully what it was she was speaking of.

But I think positive energy begets positive energy...just as negative does negative.

I know better than to drag Ms Ono into this. She is needed doing other things positive...

[SteveAJones]

The stimulus failed to stimulate...blame the GOP (minority) & Sarah Palin (out of office), right Electropile?

Taxpayers face heavy losses on auto bailout

By CHRISTOPHER S. RUGABER

ASSOCIATED PRESS

Taxpayers face losses on a significant portion of the $81 billion in government aid provided to the auto industry, an oversight panel said in a report to be released Wednesday.

The Congressional Oversight Panel did not provide an estimate of the projected loss in its latest monthly report on the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program. But it said most of the $23 billion initially provided to General Motors Corp. and Chrysler LLC late last year is unlikely to be repaid.

[eternal light]

On second thought, there is not much use in further commenting here, since it mainly consists of people being insulting and rude.

It's best not to lose sleep over this thread.

[TypeO]

IMO, people with foolish remarks think foolish thoughts. As far as the statement Yoko make to me. It had very much to do with not following negative thinkers.

The real question here is...how many times has Yoko spoken with people such as you?

Relating absurd sexual frenzy to a simple statement is not only the ideas of a simpleton, but the remark of an idiot.

As far as Yoko's full explanation of her remark to me? You would have had to have been there to have known fully what it was she was speaking of.

But I think positive energy begets positive energy...just as negative does negative.

I know better than to drag Ms Ono into this. She is needed doing other things positive...

Looks like somebody doesn't quite understand when a comment is or is not directed towards them.

See how your post is quoted in this response?

That means these comments are in response to your comments.

If you'll go back and check, you'll discover that my previous post that you responded to was directed towards BIGDAN, hence the reason I quoted his post.

Had my comments been directed towards you, I would have quoted your post.

It's really quite simple once you get the hang of it.

That being said, you may want to do a little research into the definitions of words.

As it turns out, there is often more than one definition for a particular word.

I know, right? Who'd have thought?

I know I'd hate to go off about a comment in a way that revealed my lack of understanding of the meaning of that comment or a word or phrase in that comment, because I could easily be perceived as a simpleton, or an idiot.

On a side note, Yoko Ono has never spoken to me, period.

I would certainly have no problem listening to her if she did speak to me.

It is, however, my heartfelt and sincere prayer that she never SINGS to me.

[bigstickbonzo]

The stimulus failed to stimulate...blame the GOP (minority) & Sarah Palin (out of office)

At the same time, the GOP provided no alternative whatsoever. All Boehner produced was a booklet that "contained" the GOP plan. When asked what it was, he failed to elaborate and the "plan" soon disappeared from the table....and history.

The blame should be largely directed at the Democrats, who've failed to do anything since 2006. The other failure is in Obama, who, being the outsider looking in (while the old heads of the Party gaulk at his input), hasn't kept his promise of going rogue against the Washington we all seem to agree we hate.

However, the blame should be put on the US Treasury, NY Stock Markets, US Banks, US Crediting & Loans, the Housing Market and Real Estate Sector, the joke that is our Health Care system, the joke that is our Educational System, the spineless US Government, every President since FDR.....

[~tangerine~]

Please don't tell me you're surprised by this. This person will reply with a string of articles, links and YouTube clips that don't have a damn thing to do with the conversation at hand. Something tells me the acid never wore off.

i really don't know.

[Mary Hartman]

You mean you haven't overthrown the feds yet and implemented your own medical institutions?

Do tell?

This crew needs an institution not a new constitution.

:hysterical:

[Nathan]

All right everyone... here is Obama's speech along with the Republican response:

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=7EF8C66619D98746

My thoughts...

Obama answered a lot if not all of the criticisms (no death panels, no illegal immigrants covered), and did a damn good job explaining his proposals. I would have liked to hear more info on the hardship waivers and such from Obama (and not from the scare-tactic bullshit propaganda from the right... sorry Steve and TypeO), but I think it's a small point.

The Republican response was stupid. I am sick and fucking tired of Republicans shouting bipartisanship when they are guilty of more partisanship then the Dems have since Obama took office. They are the ones making it a partisan issue, not the Dems, therefore they are the ones who should be heeding their own call for bipartisanship. The Dems and Obama tried that at first, but it failed because, to the right, anything that doesn't put more money into the pockets of the greedy execs of their wet-dream fantasy completely unregulated free market is the work of the Anti-Christ.

To be honest, I have to imagine that Rep. Charles Boustany didn't actually see the speech, because he keeps saying Obama has to do exactly what Obama said he would do. This is why Republicans need to wait to write their rebuttals until after Obama makes his speeches. Then their rebuttals won't look so... stupid.

Of course, I'm sure Steve and TypeO will some amazing things to say about why Obama's lying and all that... here's your chance to spout it in

3

2

1

GO!

[Electrophile]

Did you enjoy Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst during Obama's speech when he shouted "you lie" at him? Remember when Presidential addresses to Congress were met with a modicum of decorum and dignity? I watch all SotU addresses and even when Bush was at his lowest approval ratings possible, I don't remember him being heckled. I remember hearing a couple boos, which is totally out of line, but not heckling or shouting or anything like that.

Just disgusting. Even if you disagree with what Obama is proposing, can't you show enough class to keep your mouth shut while he's talking? To make matters worse, he was sitting there fucking with his Blackberry the whole time. Just total disrespect. You respect the office, if not the man and what he did was disrespectful to the office of the Presidency. If I knew of a Democratic member of Congress who did something similar during one of Bush's addresses, I would castigate them similarly.

[SteveAJones]

Of course, I'm sure Steve and TypeO will have some amazing things to say about why Obama's lying and all that

It's what he DIDN'T say that matters. Public Option? That's gone. Moving on, "nice speech", but as is always the case with Obama that's all it was and all it ever will be. The guy does not have the juice to get anything done. Republicans are content to let this die on the vine so the Dems get thrashed in the mid-term elections for not bringing the bacon home. One must be careful of the causes they champion.

In this case, don't you think if this was so easy ("...will not add to the deficit...") it would have been done under Clinton? It's impractible, and compelling every American to have health insurance is arguably unconstitutional.

[SteveAJones]

Just disgusting. Even if you disagree with what Obama is proposing, can't you show enough class to keep your mouth shut while he's talking? To make matters worse, he was sitting there fucking with his Blackberry the whole time. Just total disrespect. You respect the office, if not the man and what he did was disrespectful to the office of the Presidency. If I knew of a Democratic member of Congress who did something similar during one of Bush's addresses, I would castigate them similarly.

It certainly was beneath the dignity of holding public office, but then Congress has become little more than a glorified country club for condescending conservatives and limo liberals.

[planted]

...and, the majority will continue to re-elect these fools. Just ask someone who hails from Massachusetts.

[Deborah J]

It certainly was beneath the dignity of holding public office, but then Congress has become little more than a glorified country club for condescending conservatives and limo liberals.

I am so fed up with both sides, so until this country decides to force change..this is what we have to live with..daily!

[TypeO]

Did you enjoy Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst during Obama's speech when he shouted "you lie" at him? Remember when Presidential addresses to Congress were met with a modicum of decorum and dignity? I watch all SotU addresses and even when Bush was at his lowest approval ratings possible, I don't remember him being heckled. I remember hearing a couple boos, which is totally out of line, but not heckling or shouting or anything like that.

Just disgusting. Even if you disagree with what Obama is proposing, can't you show enough class to keep your mouth shut while he's talking? To make matters worse, he was sitting there fucking with his Blackberry the whole time. Just total disrespect. You respect the office, if not the man and what he did was disrespectful to the office of the Presidency. If I knew of a Democratic member of Congress who did something similar during one of Bush's addresses, I would castigate them similarly.

So as long as it's not during an address, it's ok?

Harry Reid called Bush a loser and a liar, just not during an address.

The "disrespect for the office" you claimed is absolutely the same.

Democrats routinely booed and heckled Bush loudly DURING addresses as well.

One memorable time was when Bush was proposing Social Security reform - and he was booed like that was a BAD IDEA, and not a problem that needed addressing.

WTF?

So please, my democratic friends, please unclench your butt cheeks, unwad yer panties, and dislodge the self-inflicted stick in your collective asses and remember this has been going on for quite a few years, with your current Senate Majority leader setting the example.

Without question, the Bush years were the genesis of total disrespect and outspoken derision of a sitting president, all courtesy of the Democrats.

And now you have the unmitigated gall to speak out and make judgments on "decorum" and "respect".

'bout to make muh head asplode.

Here's where somebody responds by saying Bush caused it by disrespecting the office himself. Y'all are so fucking predictable.

[TypeO]

First off, the entire "Address to Congress" was a joke.

He wasn't addressing congress, he was addressing the nation.

He was trying to defuse the groundswell of opposition to his bullshit policy and his sinking poll numbers.

Nothing he said was of interest to members of congress, they've been hearing all that shit daily.

He just used congress as an excuse to make another pitch to an American public that is continuing to see through the lies and inconsistencies he attempts to foist on the nation on the coattails of the perceived continued popularity he was swept into office with, not to mention the growing realization that the "community organizer" really is nothing but a campaigner and speech-maker.

For all the idiots who voted for B.O. because "it'll be nice to have a President that can actually SPEAK!", you got what you asked for.

Because apparently, that's ALL he can do - make speeches.

He doesn't know how to handle people who are no longer swept up in the fervor of the campaign and awestruck by his presence.

He's a victim of his own hype.

The Republican response was stupid. I am sick and fucking tired of Republicans shouting bipartisanship when they are guilty of more partisanship then the Dems have since Obama took office. They are the ones making it a partisan issue, not the Dems, therefore they are the ones who should be heeding their own call for bipartisanship. The Dems and Obama tried that at first, but it failed because, to the right, anything that doesn't put more money into the pockets of the greedy execs of their wet-dream fantasy completely unregulated free market is the work of the Anti-Christ.

Obama and the Dems openly and continually shut out the Republicans on everything from the Stimulus to this Healthcare bullshit.

Because they have a majority, and they don't intend to compromise in the least.

Then B.O. goes on to make a speech how he wants to work with Republicans.

It's a joke.

It failed because to the left, if Republicans don't blindly rubber-stamp exactly what they propose, they kick them out of the discussions and tell 'em to fuck off.

That's the Democratic/Leftist idea of "bipartisanship".

This is why Republicans need to wait to write their rebuttals until after Obama makes his speeches. Then their rebuttals won't look so... stupid.

They distribute the speech in its entirety well before he actually makes the speech, genius.

It's impractible, and compelling every American to have health insurance is arguably unconstitutional.

Steve, you and your silly constitution!

Just read the post below to see what folks think about constitutionality...

I am so fed up with both sides, so until this country decides to force change..this is what we have to live with..daily!

We don't need no steenking constitution!

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

Well said, TypeO!

Where was the outrage at the disrespect shown to Bush when shoes were thrown at him? (As well as the booing in Congress?) The leftist liberal media made a big joke out of it, furthering the disrespect shown to the office of the President of the United States. Did any member of the liberal Congress show any concern for this? What hippocrites they are! They are nothing but self-serving, propoganda-pushing, hippocrites. This disrespectful attitude toward the President began with the liberals, and now they are reaping what they sowed.

[SteveAJones]

First off, the entire "Address to Congress" was a joke. He wasn't addressing congress, he was addressing the nation.

Worth noting the overly-long speech started a full fifteen minutes late. Government can't even manage a speech on health care properly,

let alone the health care system itself!

[Nathan]

Did you enjoy Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst during Obama's speech when he shouted "you lie" at him? Remember when Presidential addresses to Congress were met with a modicum of decorum and dignity? I watch all SotU addresses and even when Bush was at his lowest approval ratings possible, I don't remember him being heckled. I remember hearing a couple boos, which is totally out of line, but not heckling or shouting or anything like that.

Just disgusting. Even if you disagree with what Obama is proposing, can't you show enough class to keep your mouth shut while he's talking? To make matters worse, he was sitting there fucking with his Blackberry the whole time. Just total disrespect. You respect the office, if not the man and what he did was disrespectful to the office of the Presidency. If I knew of a Democratic member of Congress who did something similar during one of Bush's addresses, I would castigate them similarly.

Actually, Electrophile, many did. Steve and TypeO are entirely right about this. Bush got a lot of derision, if not more.

And the shoe incident... the only reason I think a lot of people made a joke out of it is because Bush made a joke out of it. I think he handled that situation with a lot of class.

It certainly was beneath the dignity of holding public office, but then Congress has become little more than a glorified country club for condescending conservatives and limo liberals.

Yet again I am forced to agree with you, Steve. Both sides have become corrupt, idiotic, and petty.

Therefore I agree with Deborah J:

I am so fed up with both sides, so until this country decides to force change..this is what we have to live with..daily!

(you may not, and I know TypeO doesn't, but there you go.)

Speaking of TypeO:

Steve, you and your silly constitution!

Just read the post below to see what folks think about constitutionality...

We don't need no steenking constitution!

A friend put it best to me earlier today:

"I have been watching our government and our society since Bush 2 took office. For 8 years with Bush 2, I watched Nero's mental state decline. Now I'm scared, because Obama's in office, the conservatives are sore losers (racist sore losers, for that matter), and Nero is taking out his fiddle."

And we all know what happened to Rome when Nero played his fiddle.

This country exists on the basis that all men are created equal. Too bad when that was written it meant all rich, white, Christian men. It took decades upon decades of women, other races, and other religions fighting to get that statement to include them. And if you think that statement includes everybody now, guess again. In our country, that statement still doesn't include the poor, gays, lesbians, atheists... so many are still fighting to expand that statement to include everybody, because it is still a hypocritical statement and still does not include everybody.

Worth noting the overly-long speech started a full fifteen minutes late. Government can't even manage a speech on health care properly,

let alone the health care system itself!

Didn't you know? Our government runs on Jewish Time... that is... 15 minutes behind everyone else...

[TypeO]

For the most part...

because Obama's in office, the conservatives are sore losers (racist sore losers, for that matter)

And I realize you said your friend said this, not you.

But the way you've gone off in other posts about being fed up with this or that, that's how I feel about this issue.

It's absolutely fucked beyond all reason that as a white male, I can't oppose Obama without being a racist.

I'm not speaking to you directly, Nathan, your post just referred to this issue.

And it's absolutely "playing the race card" when Obama supporters make this claim.

And the worst part of all is the way African-Americans are corralled into being Democrats.

The minute an African-American claims to be conservative, or a Republican, he's immediately a sell-out, an Uncle Tom.

Many African-Americans (especially here in the south) are actually quite conservative on a lot of issues, but because of the constant liberal drumbeat that conservatives are racist Klansmen, it's near impossible for any dialog to take place.

So yeah, that's my sore spot.

And I know for a fact that there is a percentage of white people who dislike Obama BECAUSE he is black, along with his policies, but I think it's a relatively small percentage.

So yeah, voting against Obama because he's black is definitely racist.

But voting FOR him because he's black is equally racist.

I guess I just have a soft spot for consistency.

[eternal light]

Ray Charles was always polite and considerate, the perfect Republican.

popmodal.com/video/1144/America-The-Beautiful-by-Ray-Charles

[Dzldoc]

For the most part...

And I realize you said your friend said this, not you.

But the way you've gone off in other posts about being fed up with this or that, that's how I feel about this issue.

It's absolutely fucked beyond all reason that as a white male, I can't oppose Obama without being a racist.

I'm not speaking to you directly, Nathan, your post just referred to this issue.

And it's absolutely "playing the race card" when Obama supporters make this claim.

And the worst part of all is the way African-Americans are corralled into being Democrats.

The minute an African-American claims to be conservative, or a Republican, he's immediately a sell-out, an Uncle Tom.

Many African-Americans (especially here in the south) are actually quite conservative on a lot of issues, but because of the constant liberal drumbeat that conservatives are racist Klansmen, it's near impossible for any dialog to take place.

So yeah, that's my sore spot.

And I know for a fact that there is a percentage of white people who dislike Obama BECAUSE he is black, along with his policies, but I think it's a relatively small percentage.

So yeah, voting against Obama because he's black is definitely racist.

But voting FOR him because he's black is equally racist.

I guess I just have a soft spot for consistency.

I agree with the race card thing and the strange thing about that here in New Orleans is when it comes to politics and personal issues it really sticks out yet when ever there is a parade, party or festival everyone gets along just fine. Kinda strange if you ask me

[Nathan]

TypeO, just a point...

I probably should have said this when I posted what my friend said, but... I disagree with the racist charge, actually, and I'm sick and tired of seeing/hearing the Dems say it. I honestly bet they creamed when they realized they could just call everyone who disagrees with Obama a racist and leave it at that. It pisses me off incessantly, and I do not think anyone who disagrees with Obama (including yourself and Steve) are racists unless they explicitly say they dislike him because of his skin-color. So I agree with you 100% there.

My friend and I are just afraid of the direction America's headed in (caused by all sides of the spectrum). As we all know, no superpower can last forever, so America must ultimately lose its status, as is the nature of the world. But we fear it's losing that status a lot quicker then any empire before it. We both do believe that there are changes that can be made to stop it, but the first of those changes would have to be the complete and utter removal of both the Democrats and Republicans from office. The second would have to be the... erm... devaluation... of political parties (that is, the political party would have to no longer be important in elections). Since neither of these two things will ever happen, we fear that none of the other changes could be made, and it won't be long until America loses... well... everything.

And keep in mind that this fear is driven by our love of this country. We certainly don't want it to happen, but we see it as the only inevitable outcome with the way things are going now and have been going since... well... really... since the late 1800's/early 1900's.

ETA:

I have to admit, TypeO... I'm seriously shocked that you thought my post was mostly good... :P

[Deborah J]

TypeO, just a point...

I probably should have said this when I posted what my friend said, but... I disagree with the racist charge, actually, and I'm sick and tired of seeing/hearing the Dems say it. I honestly bet they creamed when they realized they could just call everyone who disagrees with Obama a racist and leave it at that. It pisses me off incessantly, and I do not think anyone who disagrees with Obama (including yourself and Steve) are racists unless they explicitly say they dislike him because of his skin-color. So I agree with you 100% there.

My friend and I are just afraid of the direction America's headed in (caused by all sides of the spectrum). As we all know, no superpower can last forever, so America must ultimately lose its status, as is the nature of the world. But we fear it's losing that status a lot quicker then any empire before it. We both do believe that there are changes that can be made to stop it, but the first of those changes would have to be the complete and utter removal of both the Democrats and Republicans from office. The second would have to be the... erm... devaluation... of political parties (that is, the political party would have to no longer be important in elections). Since neither of these two things will ever happen, we fear that none of the other changes could be made, and it won't be long until America loses... well... everything.

And keep in mind that this fear is driven by our love of this country. We certainly don't want it to happen, but we see it as the only inevitable outcome with the way things are going now and have been going since... well... really... since the late 1800's/early 1900's.

ETA:

I have to admit, TypeO... I'm seriously shocked that you thought my post was mostly good... :P

Hello Nathan!

America in general is based on greed. How much can I own, do I have the biggest house, the best car...etc. The laws have been written to protect corporations (you know those idiots who give the rest of us jobs and security!!) What a joke, it is about MONEY in this country, not about what is fair and just. Just an example - movie stars make millions for a few months work while a fireman, policemen and teachers have to work for decades to make a decent salary. (But remember our government has us pay taxes to fund these jobs.) I have personally witnessed when CEO's , VP's walk in a place and even though these people are millionaires, they get most of their request for free, while the hard working blue collar guy who has saved all year to take his family on a vacation get's nothing but what he/she pays for.

While there will always be a few extremist in every walk of life, predjudice, again in America is about what class of money you make. I have been in a room with Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan and people no matter what their race will fall all over them.

I have friends who are both Dem's and Republicans and they both seem to be fed up with government but will not do anything other than go to a voting booth so they can feel good about the fact that they voted. They will vote their party no matter what. I refuse to even discuss politics with them any more.

I am not against anyone making a lot of money as long as it was made honestly.... Oh yea, I am talking about America, where the laws with a good attorney can be twisted to benefit the person with that most expensive lawyer.

GRREED-One of the seven deadly sins, that will be the ruining of America in the end.

[Deborah J]

LOL!! With many people in the room:-)