manderlyh Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Federally Funded pilot program allows police to draw blood from DUI suspects without consent This just really, really freaks me out... <h1 id="storyTitle">Federally funded pilot program in Nampa may ease prosecution of drunken driving cases</h1><h2 id="byLine">BY REBECCA BOONE - THE ASSOCIATED PRESS</h2> Published: 09/15/09 When police officerDarryll Dowell is on patrol in Nampa, he'll pull up at a stoplight andusually start casing the vehicle. Nowadays, his eyes also will focus onthe driver's arms, as he tries to search for a plump vein. "I was looking at people's arms and hands, thinking, 'I could draw from that,' " Dowell said. It'sall part of training he and a select cadre of officers in Idaho andTexas have received in recent months to draw blood from those suspectedof drunken or drugged driving. The federal program's aim is todetermine whether blood draws by cops can be an effective tool againstdrunken drivers. If the results seem promising after a year ortwo, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will encouragepolice nationwide to undergo similar training. For years, defenseattorneys in Idaho advised clients to always refuse breath tests, AdaCounty Deputy Prosecutor Christine Starr said. When the state toughenedthe penalties for refusing the tests, the problem lessened, but it'sstill the main reason that drunk driving cases go to trial in theTreasure Valley, Starr said. Idaho had a 20 percent breath test refusal rate in 2005, compared with 22 percent nationally, according to an NHTSA study. Starrhopes the new system will cut down on the number of drunken drivingtrials. Officers can't hold down suspects and force them to breatheinto a tube, she noted, but they can forcefully take blood - a practicethat's been upheld by the Idaho Supreme Court and the U.S. SupremeCourt. The practice of cops drawing blood, implemented first in1995 in Arizona, has raised concerns about safety and the credibilityof the evidence. "I would imagine that a lot of people would bewary of having their blood drawn by an officer on the hood of theirpolice vehicle," said Steve Oberman, chairman of the NationalAssociation of Criminal Defense Lawyers' DUI Committee. Theofficer phlebotomists are generally trained under the same program astheir state's hospital or clinical phlebotomists, but some of thecurriculum is cut. Though most legal experts agree blood testsmeasure blood alcohol more accurately than breath tests, Oberman saidthe tests can be problematic, too. Vials can be mixed up,preservative levels in the tubes used to collect the blood can be off,or the blood can be improperly stored. Oberman said lawenforcement agencies also should be concerned "about possiblemalpractice cases over somebody who was not properly trained." So I'm one of the first people to say throw them in the slammer for driving drunk, but this just really freaks me out. I think we're taking too many rights away from Americans. This seems to be an entrapment ploy, IMO. People are having blood drawn without their consent, which bothers me because you can't have blood drawn in a hospital without consent by doctors and nurses! Please share your thoughts and comments because I'm outraged and a bit scared, frankly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Federally Funded pilot program allows police to draw blood from DUI suspects without consent So I'm one of the first people to say throw them in the slammer for driving drunk, but this just really freaks me out. I think we're taking too many rights away from Americans. This seems to be an entrapment ploy, IMO. People are having blood drawn without their consent, which bothers me because you can't have blood drawn in a hospital without consent by doctors and nurses! Please share your thoughts and comments because I'm outraged and a bit scared, frankly. Hi Madders, We have done this one before, you dont have Rights, only Privilages, and as such they can be taken away or revoked at will by any Government or Court. Apart from that i'm totally with you, we are moving to a "Nazi Type World" by Stealth in my honest opinion, most people might not see it that way but just by looking at what is happening, its there for all to see. What can we do to "Bring the Balance Back"? "And it makes me Wonder, Sure does" Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hi Madders, We have done this one before, you dont have Rights, only Privilages, and as such they can be taken away or revoked at will by any Government or Court. Apart from that i'm totally with you, we are moving to a "Nazi Type World" by Stealth in my honest opinion, most people might not see it that way but just by looking at what is happening, its there for all to see. What can we do to "Bring the Balance Back"? "And it makes me Wonder, Sure does" Regards, Danny I disagree, we all inalienable rights. However, many governments choose to ignore these rights. I have a right to live. If a government sends an assassin to kill me and he succeeds, then I will die despite having the right to live. The right was simply ignored like a law can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 ...and that, Wannabe, is what bothers me the most. Do you know that the US is the ONLY industrialized country that was on the Allied forces that didn't sign the International Declaration of Human Rights, and Eleanore Roosevelt was the one to start it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59LesPaul Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Federally Funded pilot program allows police to draw blood from DUI suspects without consent This just really, really freaks me out... I think we're taking too many rights away from Americans. You're just now figuring this out? What gets me is that these types of things will probably get all kinds of support,because they give the impression that they'll help to crack down on the problem.Bullshit.It's the first step on a slippery slope.You want to put a sizable dent in the problem?Penalize the everloving shit out of first-time offenders.Change and ENFORCE the laws that are already there.....but it'll never happen,it's all about money.People in jail can't pay lawyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ...and that, Wannabe, is what bothers me the most. Do you know that the US is the ONLY industrialized country that was on the Allied forces that didn't sign the International Declaration of Human Rights, and Eleanore Roosevelt was the one to start it up? Welcome to the "Greatest Country on Earth" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 If there's any group of people I hate slightly less than mass murderers and child rapists it's drunk drivers. That doesn't mean I agree with this, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I disagree, we all inalienable rights. However, many governments choose to ignore these rights. I have a right to live. If a government sends an assassin to kill me and he succeeds, then I will die despite having the right to live. The right was simply ignored like a law can be. Yea, that why its a "Privilage" and not a "Right", Duh..........whatever it may be called by Your Government or Mine. Regards, Danny PS, As i've told you before. you only have the "Right" to Die, even being born is not a "Right" as you can be Terminated before Birth. Semantics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 ...and we're not talking about abortion here, Danny! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Welcome to the "Greatest Country on Earth" ENGLAND "The Home of Modern Civilisation", thanks for giving us a mention. Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGDAN Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ...and we're not talking about abortion here, Danny! Sorry for the Hijack Madders, i will leave now with my tail tucked firmy between my legs. Kind Regards, Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted September 15, 2009 Author Share Posted September 15, 2009 Sorry for the Hijack Madders, i will leave now with my tail tucked firmy between my legs. Kind Regards, Danny LOL I just don't want it to become a debate on abortion now. I'm more worried about my blood being sucked out by some dumbass cop in hicksville than whether I should have an abortion, because let me tell you, the answer is NO for me. Back to the blood sucking... Honestly, one of my major issues with this is the fact that they can draw blood from you in the field, which also means they may not take all precautions to see what medical conditions someone may have that can cause issues with said blood collecting. Not to mention further incrimination if something else were to be in their blood stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 ENGLAND "The Home of Modern Civilisation", thanks for giving us a mention. Regards, Danny How is England the "Home of Modern Civilisation"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 They can drain all their bodily fluids and organs and the idiots will still go out and drive drunk or stoned. I can just imagine trying to hold down some beligerent dick to get a needle into his or her arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 The feds appear to be right on time for Halloween with their version of vampirical overload. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zooma Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 If you are innocent, what do you have to worry about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 If you are innocent, what do you have to worry about? And the entire point went right over your head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eternal light Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 If you are innocent, what do you have to worry about? Mistakes in the lab, contamination of evidence...this law is an open invitation to the overzealous to go on a fishing expedition. Sooner or later they are going to mess up the evidence and someone will end up filing a complaint alleging wrongful search and seizure. There are people who can't give blood for medical reasons. Someone will demand blood anyway and there will be a complaint over damage to health or life if someone dies from giving blood. This law will not be good for those who suffer from anemia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mary Hartman Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Actually it's unconstitutional to draw your blood without your permission. They cannot force you to do this. If you just say refuse it and tell them it's assault and physical oppression. It is unconstitutional to force bodily harm upon you. Just say ok, let me draw yours first since you are allowed to draw mine without my permission. Biometrics, implanted devices? Sure not problemo oh dictator man. Just add ear tags and you wont have to pay for the scanners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wanna be drummer Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Yea, that why its a "Privilage" and not a "Right", Duh..........whatever it may be called by Your Government or Mine. Regards, Danny PS, As i've told you before. you only have the "Right" to Die, even being born is not a "Right" as you can be Terminated before Birth. Semantics. They are rights, they just are not absolute. Thats where youre missing the whole definition of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzldoc Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 They are rights, they just are not absolute. Thats where youre missing the whole definition of the word. I believe he was referring to driving which is a privilege NOT! a right, the blood drawing is another matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~tangerine~ Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Some thoughts on this topic. One: glad i don't live in Texas or Idaho. This sounds outrageous to me. Two: it can become quite time consuming to draw blood from a suspect, especially one that becomes irrate. Three: i'm surprised a police officer would want to do this considering the chances of getting a needlestick (which while quite low in a lab/hospital setting, still happens). Would expect it to be more of a possibility when the person you are sticking is resisting. The rate of people with Hepatitis is another consideration (and HIV as well). If you do get stuck with a needle from someone infected with Hep B or C, the chance of contracting the disease is quite high. This was a story here that affected our firefighters and EMT's http://www.firehouse.com/news/99/10/30_sick.html Four: IF this is the way these states really want to go, i think they should offer the breath test as the first option, and then if that is refused, go on to this, absolutely pathetic next choice. Five: i agree with all who feel this is a violation of our rights. I'm glad i don't drink and drive (hardly drink at all in fact). Six: I'm getting dizzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manderlyh Posted September 16, 2009 Author Share Posted September 16, 2009 Driving is definitely a privilege. There are other ways to test for intoxication than drawing blood. If one is intoxicated, the eyes NEVER lie. You cannot "fake" a passing score on the pupil dilation and stagnation tests if you are intoxicated. So why the need for a blood test? I sat on a jury in August and we had to convict the man of DUI because he couldn't pass the tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footsteps of Dawn Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 This is complete bullshit!! I can't even believe this! Cops standing on the side of roads, holding down angry drunks and trying to stab them with needles, meanwhile getting stabbed themselves because the guy won't cooperate? Yeah, that sounds like a real good plan! This doesn't scare me - this pisses me the fuck off! Seriously, where can I go and picket against this? And cops drawing blood? Yeah, I'd like to see that. Even if it was in the calm, clean, well-lit environment that nurses get to operate in, dollars to effing donuts they'd still suck at it! I can't tell you how many NURSES can't draw blood worth a shit, let alone a friggin' COP! And on the side of the road, with nowhere to sit, and at night! One of my best friends is a cop, and I can tell you right now, he could take 5 years of training and I still wouldn't let him near my arm! Any motherfucker comes near me with a needle, I swear to God I will take the six months or whatever in prison because they are getting a pop in the nose, I can tell you right now. Of course, I'm not going to drive drunk, but NOBODY should have to do this, no matter how brain dead they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Electrophile Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Seriously, where can I go and picket against this? Idaho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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