Page/Plant Tour from the '90's

[hammered65]

Hello everyone. I'm new here and I really like this site! I have a question for you that maybe someone here can answer. I have seen videos before from the Page/Plant tour and I noticed that during The Song Remains The Same that Jimmy wasn't playing lead on that song, some other guy was. Did the other guy play the lead on other songs as well, or was this just a one time thing? I just found it odd that Jimmy was just strumming along during the song. Sorry if this has been talked about before, but as I said, I'm new here.

[Mattmc1973]

it was Porl Thompson, formerly of The Cure.

[Rock Action]

^^ Yep. Who also played with Strange Sensation on "Dreamland", and the live shows prior.

[DavidZoso]

it was Porl Thompson, formerly of The Cure.

Actually he is a member of The Cure again now.

[Trashbag]

During those times, Jimmy was struggling with his playing, so he decided to get Porl Thompson to do lead in some of the songs. He left somewhere in 1996 when Jimmy was starting to get better.

[Honeydripper]

^^Yep..by Japan/Australia 96 Jimmy's playing was VERY good. IMO the best SRTS solos I've heard since 75!!!

[PJD]

During those times, Jimmy was struggling with his playing, so he decided to get Porl Thompson to do lead in some of the songs. He left somewhere in 1996 when Jimmy was starting to get better.

That would be a massive understatement. I saw P/P twice and Jimmy was not good either time. A real let down. The first time they ripped into TSRTS and he had that killer 12 sting tone and it sounded excellent and I hear the solo from the album almost note for note and notice Jimmy was still playing the rhythm part then I noticed a weird little man in a toga with a shaved head tearing it up. Porl Thompson saved both of those shows. At one point Jimmy was drooling on himself. It was a bummer, And the rhythm section was terrible! Crows/Page a few years later re-newed my faith.

[Mattmc1973]

He let Thompson go once he was playing better. There was a video on Youtube a while back, of P/P playing TSRTS in Japan in '96, and Jimmy was ripping it quite well, I was surprised.

[DBJ]

I don't think it has anything to do with Jimmy not being able to play well. Jimmy Always wanted an extra guitarist for Zeppelin, but felt he couldn't get away with it so when the opportunity came in an officially non Zeppelin setting he went for it. (Listen how great Ten Years Gone with the BlackCrowes sounds from a guitar perspective with additional guitars filling in all the parts)

Porl Played the Solo on some things because Page is not an egotistical Bastard. As David Coverdale stated when he worked with him, Jimmy is the kinda of guy who might not even write a solo into a song if it didn't need it. He not the type of guy to hog the spotlight.

besides, a year earlier he was planning a big tour with Coverdale with no assistance.

I think it is logical to assume that if Page could Play Since I've Been Loving You where almost the entire song is a solo, then he would have no problems playing the solo to TSRTS.

Granted I must admit that his playing and the overall band sounded better in 1998, but who wouldn't after having played a tour of the Entire world for the previous 2 years

[SteveAJones]

During those times, Jimmy was struggling with his playing, so he decided to get Porl Thompson to do lead in some of the songs. He left somewhere in 1996 when Jimmy was starting to get better.

He left the tour after the second night in New York City (Oct 26th 1995) because his

wife was expecting. They continued on without him to the Far East and South America.

[mos6507]

I never liked the idea of having a 2nd guitarist backing up Jimmy intentionally. It works okay when he's guesting in someone else's band, but I don't think Porl Thompson was ever supposed to be a part of Robert's official band. I don't think Robert ever had two guitarists in his band so it leads one to speculate.

[SteveAJones]

I never liked the idea of having a 2nd guitarist backing up Jimmy intentionally. It works okay when he's guesting in someone else's band, but I don't think Porl Thompson was ever supposed to be a part of Robert's official band. I don't think Robert ever had two guitarists in his band so it leads one to speculate.

Robert Plant has employed two guitarists in his touring band; in 1993 he had Francis

Dunnery and Innis Sibun, in addition to the late Kevin Scott McMichael. Porl, a friend

of Robert's, was brought in to help beef up the first leg of the 1995 North American

tour. The fact of the matter is Jimmy didn't quite have his chops having performed

less than a dozen shows in the previous seven years. As the tour moved to Europe

that Summer Jimmy settled in and began taking on the bulk of the guitar work himself.

[solar]

Robert Plant has employed two guitarists in his touring band; in 1993 he had Francis

Dunnery and Innis Sibun, in addition to the late Kevin Scott McMichael. Porl, a friend

of Robert's, was brought in to help beef up the first leg of the 1995 North American

tour. The fact of the matter is Jimmy didn't quite have his chops having performed

less than a dozen shows in the previous seven years. As the tour moved to Europe

that Summer Jimmy settled in and began taking on the bulk of the guitar work himself.

I saw one show on the first leg in '95 with Porl (April 1) and one show on the second leg (Oct. 15) after he left. Page's playing definitely did improve, as did the whole of the show. Plant's voice and range included.

Still, that cover of Lullaby on the first leg was always a highlight for me. I had heard rumors that Jimmy at least contemplated adding a second guitarist (Anthony 'Top' Topham) as early as March '69 in Dave Lewis' book, as well as someone else to play the bass to free up Jonsey on keyboards (Keith Emerson and Chris Squire were rumored). Alas, neither ever came to fruition.

[the-ocean87]

Okay, Jimmy's playing since 1977 isn't as good as in the early years. But did you see the "Since ive been loving you" Video from P & P at Glastonbury 1995 ??? The intro solol from Jimmy is just incredible. And i've seen many videos from P & P where Jimmy plays really well, but of course not as good as in the led zeppelin years.

[hammered65]

Thanks for the info guys! Reading your responses has helped me remember some things written about those Page/Plant tours from back in the day. I seemed to remember one critic reviewing one of their shows and saying that he really enjoyed their show but was bummed out that Jimmy played few leads that night. I had also read somewhere too where Jimmy tossed around the idea of adding another musician to Zepp when they would tour. Rush also used to kick around the idea of adding a keyboard player to their live shows as well, even possibly having them play behind the stage somewhere, but I don't believe they ever did this.

[mstork]

Robert Plant has employed two guitarists in his touring band; in 1993 he had Francis

Dunnery and Innis Sibun, in addition to the late Kevin Scott McMichael. Porl, a friend

of Robert's, was brought in to help beef up the first leg of the 1995 North American

tour. The fact of the matter is Jimmy didn't quite have his chops having performed

less than a dozen shows in the previous seven years. As the tour moved to Europe

that Summer Jimmy settled in and began taking on the bulk of the guitar work himself.

Interesting to note that Jimmy has currently played only two or three gigs in the past seven years! That's why I'm glad they've had so many rehearsals going back to May. I think Jimmy has been more of a "show up, plug in, and play" guy in recent years. I read that he only did a couple of soundchecks with the Crowes before their Roseland gigs, and it showed. They really didn't start tightening up until the third night...

[Honeydripper]

Interesting to note that Jimmy has currently played only two or three gigs in the past seven years! That's why I'm glad they've had so many rehearsals going back to May. I think Jimmy has been more of a "show up, plug in, and play" guy in recent years. I read that he only did a couple of soundchecks with the Crowes before their Roseland gigs, and it showed. They really didn't start tightening up until the third night...

True....Jimmy has always been a fan of preserving the spontaneity of a Zep performance by doing nothing more than loose jams and working out song transitions during rehearsals. It always showed on Zep tours as they progressed as well. IMO, both 95 and 98 tours seemed a little too rehearsed. There were definitely moments...but for alot of it....you hear one P&P boot, listening to shows from the same week will pretty much give you a carbon copy. That's why travel breaks...and Porl not being in Aus,Jap,and S America proved to be highlights. Jimmy was on edge once again!

[Rock Action]

Re: "Jimmy not having his chops", etc. on the 1995 P/P tour...

NONSENSE. I was at the San Jose 5-20-95 show and he was right on the money, playing MOST of the leads. Porl did play lead on TSRTS, and alternated leads with Jimmy on Calling To You. But Jimmy was playing wonderfully throughout the show, including an incredible SIBLY.

I'm with the school of thought that Jimmy just wanted to thicken up the sound, which he successfully did. And Charlie Jones/Michael Lee did an awesome job as well.

With that said, the Mountain View 9-12-98 show I saw had Jimmy just tearing up the place! WOW. That was the next best thing to a Zep gig.

To be fair, just like in the Zep days, maybe someone caught an off night. It happens. But to say Jimmy didn't have it in those days just isn't accurate in general.

[PJD]

I don't think it has anything to do with Jimmy not being able to play well. Jimmy Always wanted an extra guitarist for Zeppelin, but felt he couldn't get away with it so when the opportunity came in an officially non Zeppelin setting he went for it. (Listen how great Ten Years Gone with the BlackCrowes sounds from a guitar perspective with additional guitars filling in all the parts)

Porl Played the Solo on some things because Page is not an egotistical Bastard. As David Coverdale stated when he worked with him, Jimmy is the kinda of guy who might not even write a solo into a song if it didn't need it. He not the type of guy to hog the spotlight.

besides, a year earlier he was planning a big tour with Coverdale with no assistance.

I think it is logical to assume that if Page could Play Since I've Been Loving You where almost the entire song is a solo, then he would have no problems playing the solo to TSRTS.

Granted I must admit that his playing and the overall band sounded better in 1998, but who wouldn't after having played a tour of the Entire world for the previous 2 years

Thats a nice way for you to keep believing Jimmy Page is infallible. The fact is the guys makes mistakes, lots of them and for most Zep fans that's half the fun. The weird directions and turns in and out of things those little differences make. I'm not talking about Jimmy standing there playing great while he "let's" Porl Thompson solo because of his zen-like sense of himself. I'm talking about the shows I was at where he was quite literally drooling on himself. Streams of drool running out of his mouth, onto himself. It was the subject of a few jokes on the classic rock radio stations the next day. He was so out of it they had to re-start "Whole Lotta Love" because he botched of the beginning. And your inference that because he played SIBLY means he would have no problem playing TSRTS makes no sense. Live he always played the solo on the 12 string portion of the double neck doing all those cool hammer-ons and pull offs. Much more technically challenging than slogging through some blues changes in a chemical induced coma. I'm not saying he didn't sound good with Coverdale or the Crows, I'm saying Porl Thompson held him up at the shows I was at where he was a mess and to imply that he was there for other reasons is absurd. Porl played just about every trademark solo all night, it was a real bummer. .

I never liked the idea of having a 2nd guitarist backing up Jimmy intentionally. It works okay when he's guesting in someone else's band, but I don't think Porl Thompson was ever supposed to be a part of Robert's official band. I don't think Robert ever had two guitarists in his band so it leads one to speculate.

When I saw him in 92 on teh Fate of nations tour he had two guitar players one of whom was Izzy Stadlin fresh from quitting Guns and Roses. Awesome show BTW, best I've ever seen Plant sound.

[PJD]

Re: "Jimmy not having his chops", etc. on the 1995 P/P tour...

NONSENSE. I was at the San Jose 5-20-95 show and he was right on the money, playing MOST of the leads. Porl did play lead on TSRTS, and alternated leads with Jimmy on Calling To You. But Jimmy was playing wonderfully throughout the show, including an incredible SIBLY.

I'm with the school of thought that Jimmy just wanted to thicken up the sound, which he successfully did. And Charlie Jones/Michael Lee did an awesome job as well.

With that said, the Mountain View 9-12-98 show I saw had Jimmy just tearing up the place! WOW. That was the next best thing to a Zep gig.

To be fair, just like in the Zep days, maybe someone caught an off night. It happens. But to say Jimmy didn't have it in those days just isn't accurate in general.

I'm glad the nights you saw them were good because both times I saw them it was a wreck. That would be the first time in the old Boston Garden (2nd to last show before they tore it down) and several months later in the Fleet Center (Fantastic sounding building BTW) but I'm not buying the off nights coincidentally when I was at shows that were months apart. To be honest the entire band with the exception of Porl Thompson was terrible. Michael Lee, with his double kick pedal couldn't find the groove in a 50 year old career hooker and Charlie Jones is an embarrassment to the bass. He was playing the wrong notes throughout the outro to What is and "What Should Never Be". I don't mean his cool interpretation, I mean notes that make the cool guitar chords Jimmy Page plays loose all the tension and release that make that song great. Those guys had no pocket whatsoever and it was a downer. I still had a great time, I got to hear my favorite songs played by my heroes but it was an eye opener. It was plainly obvious to those of us who weren't heavily medicated that they thought they could skate on their reputation and it's true, people get caught up in the moment and allow the mistakes because they can't live with the letdown. If the show was half as good as the Crows Page show (Worcester Mass, 3rd show they ever did) or the Fate of nations show I would be singing their praises, but my experience has been when they stop in Boston they phoned it in.

[Honeydripper]

I kind of lean on the fence w/ both the above views. The Cap Center 95 show was incredible....when it happened...being there soaking it all in.......today looking at the video of it, or listening to the audio of it...it really does'nt hold my interest. Same applies to both MCI Center shows in DC in 98. (no video to go by...but some nice audio)...Sure Page was playing well, and Plant was in good voice, but there's always something too thin about the rhythm section. Not like I feel the need to compare it to Zep....but I have to say....from an instrumental point of view, the Page Crowes show I saw at Nissan Pavillion was 10X more exciting and I still love listening to shows from that tour. The drumming is better...as is the bass.(they are better sounding as well!!)

[Rock Action]

I'm glad the nights you saw them were good because both times I saw them it was a wreck. That would be the first time in the old Boston Garden (2nd to last show before they tore it down) and several months later in the Fleet Center (Fantastic sounding building BTW) but I'm not buying the off nights coincidentally when I was at shows that were months apart. To be honest the entire band with the exception of Porl Thompson was terrible. Michael Lee, with his double kick pedal couldn't find the groove in a 50 year old career hooker and Charlie Jones is an embarrassment to the bass. He was playing the wrong notes throughout the outro to What is and "What Should Never Be". I don't mean his cool interpretation, I mean notes that make the cool guitar chords Jimmy Page plays loose all the tension and release that make that song great. Those guys had no pocket whatsoever and it was a downer. I still had a great time, I got to hear my favorite songs played by my heroes but it was an eye opener. It was plainly obvious to those of us who weren't heavily medicated that they thought they could skate on their reputation and it's true, people get caught up in the moment and allow the mistakes because they can't live with the letdown. If the show was half as good as the Crows Page show (Worcester Mass, 3rd show they ever did) or the Fate of nations show I would be singing their praises, but my experience has been when they stop in Boston they phoned it in.

Aw man...I feel for you then. Sounds like you got hosed.

Like I mentioned though, even Zep live could be hit and miss. The Oakland show I saw in 77 wasn't all that, though the LA Forum shows the same year KILLED.

I guess I was just lucky at the time, with the P/P shows. But I also have numerous boots where they played very well too. Just luck of the draw, I guess. I wish you'd had a better experience.

[PJD]

Thanks Rock Action, i wish I was at the shows you were! I think Honey Dripper makes an excellent point, that being there and being able to soak it in is what made the night for most of us. I had some of that feelin that had left everybody and we all went 'yaah' bash.

That won't stop me from trying to see and Page ventures in the future but I take objection to the rose colored glasses that get put on when we talk about our heroes. They are human and can get rusty and make bad decisions. I still had a blast at both shows (although the openers were not my bag, Rusted Root..thats a whole other funny story). I have still never heard a crowd go as wild as that crowd for the first show in the Garden, that alone made it worth while.

[mstork]

Thanks Rock Action, i wish I was at the shows you were! I think Honey Dripper makes an excellent point, that being there and being able to soak it in is what made the night for most of us. I had some of that feelin that had left everybody and we all went 'yaah' bash.

That won't stop me from trying to see and Page ventures in the future but I take objection to the rose colored glasses that get put on when we talk about our heroes. They are human and can get rusty and make bad decisions. I still had a blast at both shows (although the openers were not my bag, Rusted Root..thats a whole other funny story). I have still never heard a crowd go as wild as that crowd for the first show in the Garden, that alone made it worth while.

Did you see them in '98?

[solar]

Funny. I'm a big Rusted Root fan and loved them as an opener on that first leg. I think Etta James opened for them the second time I saw th em in '95.

Saw them in '99 as well, and by that time the live show had been fine-tuned and the playing was exceptionally tight. And yes, I know this is fact because I have boots from all three shows.