Your Opinion of Rap

[Electrophile]

If someone who never heard a Zeppelin song told you they suck and their music is terrible, would you be offended?

Hell no. Who gets offended over trivial shit like that? There's more consequential things in this world to get offended by. I had someone who has never heard The Division Bell by Pink Floyd tell me that it's crap because Roger Waters was out of the band by then. I just went "you're entitled to your opinion" and I moved on. I happen to love that album, but that's MY opinion. Someone else's may be different. That's the beautiful thing about opinions.

I don't think because I'm a die-hard Pink Floyd fan my opinion of their music is more valid/important/worthy than someone who is not. The same would apply if you put any other band's name in there.

[MMAharaja]

Hell no. Who gets offended over trivial shit like that?

A lot of people in this thread seem to be offended over how rappers refer to women. Personally, I think that's a trivial thing to get offended over, but I've held my tongue.

There's more consequential things in this world to get offended by. I had someone who has never heard The Division Bell by Pink Floyd tell me that it's crap because Roger Waters was out of the band by then. I just went "you're entitled to your opinion" and I moved on. I happen to love that album, but that's MY opinion. Someone else's may be different. That's the beautiful thing about opinions.

I don't think because I'm a die-hard Pink Floyd fan my opinion of their music is more valid/important/worthy than someone who is not. The same would apply if you put any other band's name in there.

Opinions are essentially worthless unless they are based on something. The more you have to base your opinion on, the more valuable it is. I think that my opinions on music are more valuable today than they were when I was in first grade and my favorite song was from Barney.

The absurd politically correct cliche that all opinions are equal is absolutely ridiculous.

[Anjin-san]

Hi all,

If you enjoy rap 'music' good for you.If you think it's 'art' good again.

Let's have a quiz!

Name you top 5 rap: guitarists,bassists,drummers,keyboardists!

Or your top 5:

drum machines!

sampling software!

KB (trying to make it easy!)

[Electrophile]

A lot of people in this thread seem to be offended over how rappers refer to women. Personally, I think that's a trivial thing to get offended over, but I've held my tongue.

And that's your right. As a woman, I think the word "whore" is disgusting. I don't like it when it's used to defame a woman, whether a woman is saying it or a man is. You're free to think that it's NOT offensive, but don't pretend that something like that is on equal footing with someone getting their knickers in a twist over someone else thinking rap is music.

As to your assertion that it's a "politically correct cliche" that all opinions are equal, I say.......that's your opinion.

All this started because a poster dared to say they thought rap was music/Art. Sweet Jesus shortcake.

[Virginia]

My life is more like a country music song than anything else (definitely not rap, not even much like Zeppelin); that's what I can relate to these days. I understand and appreciate that rap is a form of self expression; it's just not the genre I personally relate to.

[toscano]

I think that my opinions on music are more valuable today than they were when I was in first grade and my favorite song was from Barney.

The only person they're of any value to though, is you ! Just as mine are only meaningful to me.

Just like they were when you were 5 and liked Barney.

The only opinion any of us should really care about is our own. Sure, there may be people who you know have similar taste to you and you may give something a try you may not have otherwise listened to based on their recommendations, but because Robert Plant likes Alison Krauss's music, doesn't mean squat if I think it's utter crap. And I do. On the other hand, I'd have never listened to Tinariwen were it not for Percy, and I love their stuff.

That's not being politically correct, that's called making up your own mind as to what is good. If you like it, it's good and that's all that should matter.

Some people like rap. Their opinion is as valid as yours or mine.

[MMAharaja]

And that's your right. As a woman, I think the word "whore" is disgusting. I don't like it when it's used to defame a woman, whether a woman is saying it or a man is. You're free to think that it's NOT offensive, but don't pretend that something like that is on equal footing with someone getting their knickers in a twist over someone else thinking rap is music.

As to your assertion that it's a "politically correct cliche" that all opinions are equal, I say.......that's your opinion.

All this started because a poster dared to say they thought rap was music/Art. Sweet Jesus shortcake.

I'm not sure who you're arguing with, since I've been saying rap IS music since the very first post of this thread.

Anyway, just because someone is free to think a certain way or have a certain opinion doesn't mean their opinion is valid. Here's another example. Lots of people think the world is flat. They are free to think that, and they are entitled to their opinion, but they are wrong, and their opinion is laughable to anyone with a decent education.

[Electrophile]

Anyway, just because someone is free to think a certain way or have a certain opinion doesn't mean their opinion is valid. Here's another example. Lots of people think the world is flat. They are free to think that, and they are entitled to their opinion, but they are wrong, and their opinion is laughable to anyone with a decent education.

Ah, there's a problem with your analogy.

You are right that people can think the earth is flat if they want. However FACTUALLY, we know that is incorrect. Their opinion is not supported by fact, which is what makes them wrong. However, where is the factual evidence that rap is not music/art? If there were something factual confirming or denying the assertion, then you could say that while people are free to believe what they want, there is in fact, a right answer.

Since "what is art/music?" is a purely theoretical question, there are no facts. I may think that banging a spoon on a saucepan is not music, but you may think it is. Who is right? Both our opinions on the issue are valid, as there is nothing factual to eliminate either one as being incorrect.

That is why threads like this aren't good for anything other than pissing and moaning.

[toscano]

I'm not sure who you're arguing with, since I've been saying rap IS music since the very first post of this thread.

Anyway, just because someone is free to think a certain way or have a certain opinion doesn't mean their opinion is valid. Here's another example. Lots of people think the world is flat. They are free to think that, and they are entitled to their opinion, but they are wrong, and their opinion is laughable to anyone with a decent education.

But the world being flat can be objectively proven. The Question "what shape is the world" has a right answer, and a wrong answer.

Art is subjective. You like it or you don't. There's no right or wrong answer.

"Is Rap Good ?" - My answer, "no". Someeone else's may be - "Yes"

We'd both be right.

[MMAharaja]

However, where is the factual evidence that rap is not music/art?

I shouldn't have to repeat myself four times, so I won't. You're attacking a straw man that you've been corrected about plenty of times now. I think you're doing it on purpose, so I'm finished.

[Electrophile]

I shouldn't have to repeat myself four times, so I won't. You're attacking a straw man that you've been corrected about plenty of times now. I think you're doing it on purpose, so I'm finished.

I never said that you personally feel/said rap is not art/music. I was asking you a question that was pertinent to the discussion in the thread at the moment.

If you want to make wild and baseless accusations/assumptions, go for it. At least we know not to deal with you now.

[MMAharaja]

But the world being flat can be objectively proven. The Question "what shape is the world" has a right answer, and a wrong answer.

Art is subjective. You like it or you don't. There's no right or wrong answer.

"Is Rap Good ?" - My answer, "no". Someeone else's may be - "Yes"

We'd both be right.

So you've finally conceded that not all opinions are equal? You also seem to have conceded that there is merit to the theory that Earth is round. Do you also concede that music theory has merit?

[Electrophile]

So you've finally conceded that not all opinions are equal? You also seem to have conceded that there is merit to the theory that Earth is round. Do you also concede that music theory has merit?

Not all opinions are equal, I don't believe anyone said otherwise. But that's all opinions in toto, comprising everything on earth anyone could ever have an opinion about.

If however, you choose to look at opinions about subjective or theoretical things like music and art....then yeah, all opinions are equal. You can't disprove an opinion without factual evidence to back you up.

[Xtazy]

This is sooooo pointless.

And even though nobody on this forum seems to like rap, you still found something to argue about...

[toscano]

So you've finally conceded that not all opinions are equal?

No. Where did I say that ?

When there is a FACTUAL answer then only the correct answer is valid. No matter how many times you say "I think 2+2=5", it won't change the fact that you're wrong. That's not "having an opinion", that's called "being wrong, and here I'll prove it to you"

You also seem to have conceded that there is merit to the theory that Earth is round.

Again, no.

If you're having a problem following you could try this

www.rif.org

Do you also concede that music theory has merit?

When it comes to judging if a piece of music is "good", then no, it has zero merit. The only thing that matters is how much enjoyment we each get from it.

It's like food. No matter how many times I'm told Porcini mushrooms and French truffles are "good" by chefs or would be food critics, they still taste like how I'd imagine ass tastes.

And again, it's subjective, again, it's all down to personal taste, and again, only my opinion matters. To me.

[MMAharaja]

Not all opinions are equal, I don't believe anyone said otherwise. But that's all opinions in toto, comprising everything on earth anyone could ever have an opinion about.

If however, you choose to look at opinions about subjective or theoretical things like music and art....then yeah, all opinions are equal. You can't disprove an opinion without factual evidence to back you up.

Does your toddler's scribbling on the wall have the same artistic merit as Michelangelo's The Last Judgment?

Michelangelo mastered many aspects of painting. Your toddler doesn't know the first thing about color, tone, rhythm, etc. Michelangelo has thousands of hours of training and practice. Your toddler has zero experience. Michelangelo has a nearly limitless number of colors and shades to choose from, which he carefully manipulates to create his masterpiece. Your toddler picks up a crayon and presses it against the wall, thrilled that it's leaving a mark.

Based on these objective qualities, it's clear that Michelangelo's The Last Judgment has more artistic merit than your toddler's scribbles on the wall. Of course, as the mother of the child, you might think that your kid's scribbles are a better work of art than The Last Judgment, but like the flat-earthers, you would be deluded. The objective truth is that the earth is round. Their subjective interpretation of reality is that the earth is flat. The objective truth is that Michelangelo's work has more artistic merit than mindless scribbling, and that Beethoven's 9th symphony has more artistic merit than 50 Cent's P.I.M.P.

[MMAharaja]

No. Where did I say that ?

When there is a FACTUAL answer then only the correct answer is valid. No matter how many times you say "I think 2+2=5", it won't change the fact that you're wrong. That's not "having an opinion", that's called "being wrong, and here I'll prove it to you"

Again, no.

If you're having a problem following you could try this

www.rif.org

When it comes to judging if a piece of music is "good", then no, it has zero merit. The only thing that matters is how much enjoyment we each get from it.

It's like food. No matter how many times I'm told Porcini mushrooms and French truffles are "good" by chefs or would be food critics, they still taste like how I'd imagine ass tastes.

And again, it's subjective, again, it's all down to personal taste, and again, only my opinion matters. To me.

Good.

Is it good that the earth is round? Who cares what you think? The fact is that the earth IS round, whether or not you think that theory has merit. If thinking the earth is flat makes you feel good, that's your problem. But like I said in my response to Electrophile, your interpretation of reality is what's subjective, not reality itself.

What you originally said that got this whole debate started was, "Can't stand it myself, but that's not to say it has any less artistic merit than any other form of music/art/entertainment." I never used the word good. You're the one who started saying "good," probably when you realized that defending the artistic merit of rap would not end well for you. Perhaps you're the one who needs to work on your reading comprehension. By bringing the word "good" into the discussion, you automatically made it subjective, by definition.

Here's how it went, in order:

Anyone else see the irony here ?

Like it or not, rap is art and usually it can be considered music too unless it's vocal only then it's more poetry than anything else.

Can't stand it myself, but that's not to say it has any less artistic merit than any other form of music/art/entertainment

I think it's perfectly fair to say rap has less artistic merit than classical or even rock. Like I said earlier, it's a very rudimentary form of music. Sure, your kid's hand turkey is art, but it doesn't have the artistic merit of a Van Gogh painting. Just because something is art doesn't automatically mean it deserves as much praise as all other art.

You're wrong on every point.

Art is subjective. One man's Picasso is another man's "WTF is that mess ?"

Your opinion of what is good or bad art is no more or less valid than ANYONE else's.

[Wolfman]

I love the old-school stuff like Public Enemy, NWA, Dre, etc. The new guys like Jay-Z, Puffy, etc. blow big time imo. I can't stand any of it and even more the ass-kissing that they get.

[Electrophile]

Does your toddler's scribbling on the wall have the same artistic merit as Michelangelo's The Last Judgment?

Michelangelo mastered many aspects of painting. Your toddler doesn't know the first thing about color, tone, rhythm, etc. Michelangelo has thousands of hours of training and practice. Your toddler has zero experience. Michelangelo has a nearly limitless number of colors and shades to choose from, which he carefully manipulates to create his masterpiece. Your toddler picks up a crayon and presses it against the wall, thrilled that it's leaving a mark.

Based on these objective qualities, it's clear that Michelangelo's The Last Judgment has more artistic merit than your toddler's scribbles on the wall. Of course, as the mother of the child, you might think that your kid's scribbles are a better work of art than The Last Judgment, but like the flat-earthers, you would be deluded. The objective truth is that the earth is round. Their subjective interpretation of reality is that the earth is flat. The objective truth is that Michelangelo's work has more artistic merit than mindless scribbling, and that Beethoven's 9th symphony has more artistic merit than 50 Cent's P.I.M.P.

I don't have children, and I don't particularly want them either. Also, the tone of your posts is taking on one of condescension, and we can all do without that, I think.

[Poindexter]

Good.

Is it good that the earth is round? Who cares what you think? The fact is that the earth IS round, whether or not you think that theory has merit.

Since this has devolved into spitting hairs and bordering on getting anal, with all due respect, the Earth is not round. Since it spins, its oval. Rounded or curved at best.

It all depends on your interpretation, such as what is the highest mountian on Earth, which is actually in The Andes since Earth is not EACTLTY a sphere and thats the most distant point from the center of the Earth. Just like your interpretation of what is art or music.

Perception like beauty, art, even Rap is in the eye and ear of the beholder.

Rap is on the periphery of my musical taste but certainly deserving on its on merits and not to be simply dimissed as Crap.

[Khandie]

This is getting good, pass the popcorn please.........ok carry on.

[Gospel Zone]

There are some songs that are sung more in a rhythm than a melody or have parts that are sung more in a rhythm than a melody, and I just hate that because it reminds me of rap. Some of these songs were even around before the popularity of rap. A good example of this would be the verse parts of Jimi Hendrix's "Castles Made Of Sand". There's also so many country songs these days (or shall we say pop songs with twangy guitars and fiddle parts) like that that its ridiculous. Maybe it's the sign of a song writer who's well has gone dry.

[Anjin-san]

Hi all,

If you enjoy rap 'music' good for you.If you think it's 'art' good again.

Let's have a quiz!

Name you top 5 rap: guitarists,bassists,drummers,keyboardists!

Or your top 5:

drum machines!

sampling software!

KB (trying to make it easy!)

Answer the fooking question!

[Electrophile]

Why do you think music is only music if it contains musical instruments?

[MMAharaja]

I don't have children, and I don't particularly want them either. Also, the tone of your posts is taking on one of condescension, and we can all do without that, I think.

I don't care if you have kids or not, I was using that as an example. I know you're not that dense, you just don't have a rebuttal to the points I was making through that hypothetical situation.

Since this has devolved into spitting hairs and bordering on getting anal, with all due respect, the Earth is not round. Since it spins, its oval. Rounded or curved at best.

It all depends on your interpretation, such as what is the highest mountian on Earth, which is actually in The Andes since Earth is not EACTLTY a sphere and thats the most distant point from the center of the Earth. Just like your interpretation of what is art or music.

Perception like beauty, art, even Rap is in the eye and ear of the beholder.

Rap is on the periphery of my musical taste but certainly deserving on its on merits and not to be simply dimissed as Crap.

Technically, earth is an oblate spheroid, but I figured round would be sufficient to get my point across. When you say "oblate spheroid" most people go "WTF" and I was trying to avoid that. Of course the earth is not a perfect sphere, and that's reality. It has nothing to do with the eye of the beholder.