ratster Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 This is my first ever post after sitting back and reading everyone else's for the last 4 years, so go easy on me...I read in an article in Guitar World some time back (where Jimmy and Jack White both appeared) about Jimmy using a "guitar army" technique..presumably this in regard to layering guitar bits - was wondering if anyone has any clues as to when Jimmy first used this technique...ALS, Nobody's Fault and Ten Years Gone come to mind (I'm no muso but these tracks to me sound like they have layered guitar parts) - what about Walter's Walk (recorded back in '72). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tazulike88 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I remember reading somewhere that the Sounds at the beginning of Black dog were "Jimmy, waking up his army of guitars" which is what he said, and he was always a studio master, he was a genius of overdubs and layering his guitars, and you're right about walter's walk, there's just millions of guitars going around in the back, also Celebration day, loads of guitar tracks. So, i'd say he always used this technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elderer Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Rain Song? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieshoes Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 Page's "guitar army" quote has always been an odd one, because he really never did that many overdubs in the studio. I think the phrase was a little bit of self-promotion on his own part regarding the end result of the songs, and not so much the actual number of tracks he used. There's certainly no particular technique to it, because it's just simple overdubbing, which he had been doing since the first album, and which pretty much every rock producer was doing by that point. In Page's case, he took his guitar, recorded it on multiple tracks, and then played solos over them, occasionally using additional tracks for harmonies, etc. As the band's sound developed through the years, he evolved into making the tracks he was putting down have different tones from each other so as to make for more interesting blends (as opposed to the simpler rhythm/lead tracks using the same amp setup). So, a song like Over the Hills has an acoustic track for the intro, a 12 string behind it when the vocals come in, an electric guitar for the verses, and a different short reverbered electric for the solo. In any case, Page certainly never got anywhere close to the level of studio production that the Beatles, Hendrix, T Rex, or Brian May of Queen did. Not a bad thing, because it's actually a credit to Page. He could do far more with 2 and 3 tracks of guitars than most of his contemporaries did with all of the constant meticulous overdubbing. It may sound like an army, but there really aren't that many tracks on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 ^^ A small army then? Like maybe platoon strength??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecube Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 A seven nation army. At any rate, my take on it is that the army has always been there, from LZ I up to now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted November 20, 2012 Share Posted November 20, 2012 The Song Remains The Same was his first "guitar army" - IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackers Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 Page's guitar army is based long ago when Page made the comment that the guitar could be used with more depth than just playing the blues. Example Nobody's Fault But Mine Page used two amps facing each other called phasing. He placed two mics on each side per the gap between each of the amps. Here is where he gets that fantastic sonic sound on the opening, middle and endings of the track. Ten Years Gone he overdub the opening and ending of this track with 6 guitars which were delayed by less than a second in time. Its the same guitar but dubbed 6 times to make it simple in my explanation. Another guitar army would be You Shook Me where Page asked the engineer to reverse the sustain of his guitar at the closing of the track. John's the engineer said this could not be done, Page than says yes it can because he thought of it. Thus is now called Backward Echo. Another would be Achilles Last Stand. If you listen closely in the headphones you can hear 4 guitar parts in the track. Page spent 18 hours straight recording the guitars in this track and all other 6 tracks using the Stones Mobile Unit. Richards came around the following day saying you are the most overworked guitar player in the business after offering Page another days use of the Mobile unit when Page said he finished all the guitar solos etc... This is known as the guitar army meaning the use of more than one guitar as he didn't work with other guitarist but did it all himself per is talent and dubbing techs in the studio. A lot of page's talent was studio production. Over half their tracks Zeppelin could not pull off playing them live due to the production value Page put into them in the studio. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geezer Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 I can't name a track whose live rendition isn't as good as the studio one. Zeppelin was a monster live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth and beauty Posted December 4, 2012 Share Posted December 4, 2012 On 6 music's Christmas special three years ago Shaun Keaveney sat in front of Jimmy to read out an extravagant introduction .. among masses of superlatives he included "General of the Guitar Army ". Audible snigger from JP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertlespaul Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Misty Mountain Hop - first work with the army at his command Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUK Posted December 5, 2012 Share Posted December 5, 2012 Page's studio prowess really hits home when you see a band like get The Led Out, who re-create the album part for part, note for note live with 3 guitar players. It's quite extraordinary because of modern tech and the dynamic range live. It's not a live Zep show by any means but it brings the tracks to life in a very powerful way. Always said that the musical rendering of Zep tracks never "sounded" better than when Page played with the Crowes. 3 guitar players a keyboard player and Steve Gorman (cut from the same cloth as Bonzo)! Near the end of the tour, In The Light was a revelation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED68 Posted December 7, 2012 Share Posted December 7, 2012 He never used a heapload of overdubs, but the ones that were used always served an important purpose. The Rover is a good example of that. Page's producing prowess is evident all throughout the entire catalogue and on how he used overdubs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scythe Posted December 9, 2012 Share Posted December 9, 2012 What if Page actually had a 100 man army of men playing guitars? Like an electric symphony! That'd be sick, man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUK Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 I seem to remember Glen Branca did that back in the 80's. Now Jimmy doing it would be an entirely different story..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glenn_Branca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Led Dirigible Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 What if Page actually had a 100 man army of men playing guitars? Like an electric symphony! That'd be sick, man! Not 100 guitars, but still cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dallas Knebs Posted December 20, 2012 Share Posted December 20, 2012 ^^ . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BUK Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 A bit of a mess in the transitions, but WHAT A CONCEPT!!!! I'd LOVE to hear a pro version! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magerogue Posted December 21, 2012 Share Posted December 21, 2012 He never used a heapload of overdubs, but the ones that were used always served an important purpose. The Rover is a good example of that. Page's producing prowess is evident all throughout the entire catalogue and on how he used overdubs. The rover is a good example of Zeppelin in the studio with almost 0 overdubs. Only a guitar bit in the chorus and the solo, probably from the same take. Amazing what he did with just a 4 piece band, that was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scythe Posted December 22, 2012 Share Posted December 22, 2012 Not 100 guitars, but still cool. That was pretty cool, thanks for posting Led Dirigible. Now, could you imagine Page getting in there and making arrangements so that the guitarists aren't all playing the same part. THAT would be cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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