reswati Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 A true freedom fighter seeks to MINIMIZE civilian casualties. A terrorist seeks to MAXIMIZE civilian casualties. That is the difference, anytime, anywhere.Tell that to the people in Hiroshima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 "Viva Mandela"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pre-raphaelite Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Mr Jones would have to do so by telephone, as he does not live in Japan. Tell that to the people in Hiroshima. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopie Cat Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Isn't this thread about respect? About honouring the passing of Nelson Mandela? About wishing he rests in peace? So why is acceptable to come into this thread and post derogatory comments about the man we are all honouring and saddened by his passing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whoopie Cat Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 May you Rest In Peace, Nelson Mandela. "I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pre-raphaelite Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Excellent post. Isn't this thread about respect? About honouring the passing of Nelson Mandela? About wishing he rests in peace? So why is acceptable to come into this thread and post derogatory comments about the man we are all honouring and saddened by his passing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Isn't this thread about respect? About honouring the passing of Nelson Mandela? About wishing he rests in peace? So why is acceptable to come into this thread and post derogatory comments about the man we are all honouring and saddened by his passing? Indeed. It's pretty fuckin' tasteless, if you ask me. Steve is entitled to his opinions, but he should start a different thread for Mandela bashing. Coming into THIS discussion and making disparaging comments is tantamount to whipping it out and pissing on Mandela's grave (so to speak). In spite of his perceived transgressions, Nelson Mandela was still a better person than any of us could ever aspire to be. May he rest in peace...he's earned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cofa Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Nelson Mandela was not sent to prison because he was a Black activist living under the White Apartheid government in South Africa, he was imprisoned for 156 acts of terrorism and public violence. He was NOT a political prisoner. He was a common terrorist, trying to overthrow a government on behalf of his communist associates in Cuba and the USSR.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9PDX3-Qkx6Y On the other hand, perhaps I'm just playing to the crowd by turning an arguably unneccessary thread into a useful if not interesting one. I'm convinced most people can't name three countries in South Africa, let alone know anything about Nelson Mandela's "struggle" aside from the name recognition. FFS! Someone needs a lesson on history and geography Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reswati Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 So why is acceptable to come into this thread and post derogatory comments about the man we are all honouring and saddened by his passing?I guess that the guy who plastered this board with his xenophobic remarks had the urge to come out of his closet.Sad but true, and indeed very tasteless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Guys and gals, don't feed the troll...this discussion is supposed to be about Nelson Mandela, not Steve A Jones...knowing Steve he'll probably just put all of us on 'ignore' anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillumpuffer Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I guess that the guy who plastered this board with his xenophobic remarks had the urge to come out of his closet. Sad but true, and indeed very tasteless. Taxi for Mr Jones ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Tell that to the people in Manking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anjin-san Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Isn't this thread about respect? About honouring the passing of Nelson Mandela? About wishing he rests in peace? So why is acceptable to come into this thread and post derogatory comments about the man we are all honouring and saddened by his passing? FFS! Someone needs a lesson on history and geography Refute them,please. RIP NM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhairedqueen22 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 rest in peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledded1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Isn't this thread about respect? About honouring the passing of Nelson Mandela? About wishing he rests in peace? So why is acceptable to come into this thread and post derogatory comments about the man we are all honouring and saddened by his passing? The vast majority of people are being respectful to someone who had a bigger impact on the people and the politcal world than even saj can manage from Texas ( which is not in South Africa or Japan). Nelson Mandela showed many of our world leaders how to be a political leader. He chooses to ignore what Mandela did after his imprisonment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planted Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Nelson Mandela came out of prison a better man, not a bitter one. I wish I could sit here and tell you I would not have become violent in the face of apartheid. Apartheid is wrong. Deciding whether fighting apartheid with bombs and terrorism is wrong is up to (you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef free Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 The people who charged him with those 156 acts of "terrorism" were running a country where people's rights and freedoms were based on their ancestors ethnicity. Not much credibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 In spite of his perceived transgressions, Nelson Mandela was still a better person than any of us could ever aspire to be. May he rest in peace...he's earned it. Perceived transgressions? Mandela was a lawyer, yet he himself pled guilty to the crimes. A better person than any of us could aspire to be? Are you aware of the Church Street bombing, which he signed off on from prison? Mandela killed far more innocent people (non-combatants) than Ted Kennedy and Charles Manson combined. Thus, by your logic, they too are better persons than any of us could aspire to be and just need to hire better publicists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross62 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Nelson Mandela’s commitment to politics and the ANC grew stronger after the 1948 election victory of the Afrikaner-dominated National Party, which introduced a formal system of racial classification and segregation—apartheid—that restricted nonwhites’ basic rights and barred them from government while maintaining white minority rule. The following year, the ANC adopted the ANCYL’s plan to achieve full citizenship for all South Africans through boycotts, strikes, civil disobedience and other nonviolent methods. Mandela helped lead the ANC’s 1952 Campaign for the Defiance of Unjust Laws, traveling across the country to organize protests against discriminatory policies, and promoted the manifesto known as the Freedom Charter, ratified by the Congress of the People in 1955. Also in 1952, Mandela and Tambo opened South Africa’s first black law firm, which offered free or low-cost legal counsel to those affected by apartheid legislation. On December 5, 1956, Mandela and 155 other activists were arrested and went on trial for treason. All of the defendants were acquitted in 1961, but in the meantime tensions within the ANC escalated, with a militant faction splitting off in 1959 to form the Pan Africanist Congress (PAC). The next year, police opened fire on peaceful black protesters in the township of Sharpeville, killing 69 people; as panic, anger and riots swept the country in the massacre’s aftermath, the apartheid government banned both the ANC and the PAC. Forced to go underground and wear disguises to evade detection, Mandela decided that the time had come for a more radical approach than passive resistance. Nelson Mandela and the Armed Resistance Movement In 1961, Nelson Mandela co-founded and became the first leader of Umkhonto we Sizwe (“Spear of the Nation”), also known as MK, a new armed wing of the ANC. Several years later, during the trial that would put him behind bars for nearly three decades, he described the reasoning for this radical departure from his party’s original tenets: “t would be wrong and unrealistic for African leaders to continue preaching peace and nonviolence at a time when the government met our peaceful demands with force. It was only when all else had failed, when all channels of peaceful protest had been barred to us, that the decision was made to embark on violent forms of political struggle.” Under Mandela’s leadership, MK launched a sabotage campaign against the government, which had recently declared South Africa a republic and withdrawn from the British Commonwealth. In January 1962, Mandela traveled abroad illegally to attend a conference of African nationalist leaders in Ethiopia, visit the exiled Oliver Tambo in London and undergo guerilla training in Algeria. On August 5, shortly after his return, he was arrested and subsequently sentenced to five years in prison for leaving the country and inciting a 1961 workers’ strike. The following July, police raided an ANC hideout in Rivonia, a suburb on the outskirts of Johannesburg, and arrested a racially diverse group of MK leaders who had gathered to debate the merits of a guerilla insurgency. Evidence was found implicating Mandela and other activists, who were brought to stand trial for sabotage, treason and violent conspiracy alongside their associates. After attaining his freedom, Nelson Mandela led the ANC in its negotiations with the governing National Party and various other South African political organizations for an end to apartheid and the establishment of a multiracial government. Though fraught with tension and conducted against a backdrop of political instability, the talks earned Mandela and de Klerk the Nobel Peace Prize in December 1993. On April 26, 1994, more than 22 million South Africans turned out to cast ballots in the country's first multiracial parliamentary elections in history. An overwhelming majority chose the ANC to lead the country, and on May 10 Mandela was sworn in as the first black president of South Africa, with de Klerk serving as his first deputy. As president, Mandela established the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to investigate human rights and political violations committed by both supporters and opponents of apartheid between 1960 and 1994. He also introduced numerous social and economic programs designed to improve the living standards of South Africa's black population. In 1996 Mandela presided over the enactment of a new South African constitution, which established a strong central government based on majority rule and prohibited discrimination against minorities, including whites. Improving race relations, discouraging blacks from retaliating against the white minority and building a new international image of a united South Africa were central to President Mandela’s agenda. To these ends, he formed a multiracial “Government of National Unity” and proclaimed the country a “rainbow nation at peace with itself and the world.” In a gesture seen as a major step toward reconciliation, he encouraged blacks and whites alike to rally around the predominantly Afrikaner national rugby team when South Africa hosted the 1995 Rugby World Cup. On his 80th birthday in 1998, Mandela wed the politician and humanitarian Graça Machel (1945-), widow of the former president of Mozambique. (His marriage to Winnie had ended in divorce in 1992.) The following year, he retired from politics at the end of his first term as president and was succeeded by his deputy, Thabo Mbeki (1942-) of the ANC. “I have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society in which all persons live together in harmony and with equal opportunities. It is an ideal which I hope to live for and to achieve. But if needs be, it is an ideal for which I am prepared to die.” Millions across the planet from world leaders to the impoverished have been saddened but have also celebrated the life of Nelson Mandela. He will be remembered well and for a very long time to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Nelson Mandela came out of prison a better man, not a bitter one. I wish I could sit here and tell you I would not have become violent in the face of apartheid. Apartheid is wrong. Deciding whether fighting apartheid with bombs and terrorism is wrong is up to (you). Why would he be bitter? After all, he pled guilty to the crimes and then continued to sanction the killing of innocents from his cell. I do agree Apartheid is unjust, but the solution is found in diplomacy and non-violence (a point of view even Mandela came to accept once he came to power). If Mandela's ANC wanted to continue their warfare with the regime's military, no problem - game on. However, for me it was wrong for them to resort to terrorist tactics against non-combatants. I appreciate the liberal media has softened the old man's track record considerably and refashioned him as a modern day Yoda espousing peace and harmony, but I just don't buy it. At the end of the day he was a terrorist who grew up to become a politician. Aside from all of that, is it respectful for President Obama (who has speech writers on staff) to appropriate the words "He belongs to the ages" from Abraham Lincoln's death for Mandela's passing? I knew Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln was a friend of mine. Nelson Mandela is no Abraham Lincoln. NOTE: When President Lincoln died Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton is reported to have uttered his famous remark, "Now he belongs to the ages". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ledded1 Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Wow, Steve you are older than I thought, you knowing Abraham Lincoln. I know you won't see this cos I am on ignore, pretty much the same as Nelson Mandela would have been if he had been here and disagreed with you. Mind you one of your lap dogs wil no doubt let you know. I don't see why Obama shouldn't use those words whoever wrote them, it doesn't matter, they seemed apt ones to use. Good job GWB isn't still presdient or he would have not known who Mandela was or where South Africa was or how many countries there are in South Africa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planted Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Why would he be bitter? After all, he pled guilty to the crimes and then continued to sanction the killing of innocents from his cell. I do agree Apartheid is unjust, but the solution is found in diplomacy and non-violence (a point of view even Mandela came to accept once he came to power). If Mandela's ANC wanted to continue their warfare with the regime's military, no problem - game on. However, for me it was wrong for them to resort to terrorist tactics against non-combatants. I appreciate the liberal media has softened the old man's track record considerably and refashioned him as a modern day Yoda espousing peace and harmony, but I just don't buy it. At the end of the day he was a terrorist who grew up to become a politician. Aside from all of that, is it respectful for President Obama (who has speech writers on staff) to appropriate the words "He belongs to the ages" from Abraham Lincoln's death for Mandela's passing? I knew Abraham Lincoln. Abraham Lincoln was a friend of mine. Nelson Mandela is no Abraham Lincoln. NOTE: When President Lincoln died Secretary of War Edwin M. Stanton is reported to have uttered his famous remark, "Now he belongs to the ages". Look, I don't disagree with the facts of this case. He was on the terror watch list here in the US until 2008! And he was a card carrying member of the Communist party. The mainstream media has been soft and I do appreciate it as well, he was an old man. My better vs bitter comment was more about his post-prison life and how he forgave those who persecuted him. Forgiveness is not an easy thing to acquire. Bt you're right, he is no Lincoln, King, Ghandi or Mother Theresa. Good grief. (p.s. I thought you had me on ignore..) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 But you're right, he is no Lincoln, King, Ghandi or Mother Theresa. Good grief. Even so, President Obama is going to infer "Nelson Mandela could have been me". Bet on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planted Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Even so, President Obama is going to infer "Nelson Mandela could have been me". Bet on it! No question in my mind. Watch for the charlatans at the funeral/memorial services. There will be the usual suspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 Watch for the charlatans at the funeral/memorial services. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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