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ALilDetective

Stairway to Hell?

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Backward masking does not work for it's intended purpose. The truth is when a message is played backward the mind has no idea what is being said, it cannot be interpreted by either the conscious or sub-conscious mind. Even subliminal messages played normally have little affect, roughly less than 1% of test subjects actually showed any influence, and this was through what is considered the only possible method if introducing subliminal messages, visually that is. Subliminal messages were proven so ineffective that advertisers stopped using the technique in print ad's back in the early 80's. Even movies which have used it as a gag (Fight Club) reported no affect to the audience in any manner.

The point is anyone foolish enough to spend the cash it would take to do this would be a complete moron. It would cost a fortune to do this and there would be no result. Personally, I don't believe in a devil, just a completely illogical concept, however if there is in fact a devil, and he goes for this shit, he is one stupid bastard and the church has nothing to fear. After all if this is the best the devil can do he is no greater threat than the Keystone Cops (no offense to the Keystone Cops).

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^^ Hi George!! Just finished the book, good read :peace:

Thanks Deb - Yeah, the infamous backward masking rumor. Here's my intro to the topic in LZ FAQ: "Yes, there are backward messages audible to anyone who wants to hear them, but no, they were not put there by Led Zeppelin." It's an interesting topic even after being given a thorough debunking. .koob eht syojne esle enoyreve epoH. !lloR dna kcoR

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I haven't seen once thing on this thread that has convinced me that there isn't back-masking on "Stairway to Heaven". Evester's supposed clarification of Crowley's call to "read, write, in reverse" is about as clear as the back-masking itself.

I'm always amazed at others definitive interpetations of Crowley's activities. People have been doing that for over a 100 years. For my money, the best is "the world's first hippie...a spoiled man who died bitter and lonely." I put absolutely no stock in what he was trying to do, who he claimed to be, or what he was trying to accomplish at various points in his life, and that includes Thelema.

George...read your first book. No offense, but you offered nothing but the usual definitive "it's not there", and the usual rants against fundamental christians who have embraced this whole notion for their own twisted purpose.

Again, I think it exists, I think Jimmy put it there, and like the entire song musically and lyrically, it all revolves around Crowley. That includes the artwork, and also it's release as an untitled album.

I'm not waiting in the great Zeppelin pumpkin patch for an explanation or some definitive answer. It doesn't matter. What does matter is that by believing it's there, it enhances the listening experience of the song as Page intended. There are two paths in life....good and evil. One is forward, and one is reverse, and as you wind on down the road, the choice you make is yours and yours alone. "Do what thou wilt" is the rule of the law. Remember, it's not what you or I believe that matters....it's what Jimmy believes.

"Ours is the Sevenfold Path of Initiation: thou shalt transmute the base lead into the subtle Aurum Solis by rising on the Stairway of the Heavens in thy Secret Laboratorium on earth. Here is the Excellent Way! The steps of the Stairway are seven; the Laboratorium is Our Holy House of Song and Our Holy Rose Garden, which thou knowest so well. Yet to those who are vulgar, it is a secret even though they themselves possess it.")

The Book of the Elder Kings

Edited by Bong-Man

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George...read your first book. No offense, but you offered nothing but the usual definitive "it's not there", and the usual rants against fundamental christians who have embraced this whole notion for their own twisted purpose.

No offence taken, but I'd encourage you to read Led Zeppelin FAQ - and my getting royalties from the sales is entirely coincidental - to check out a deeper analysis of back-masking and the Crowley angle. You're right that there's more to it than merely The-band-deny-it-and-only-religious-nuts-believe-it, but I think we're talking more about what fans get out of the music and the mystique than what Page & Co. originally put into it. I'll look forward to your 10,000-word review, and remember your friends, family and co-workers all deserve their own copy.

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No offence taken, but I'd encourage you to read Led Zeppelin FAQ - and my getting royalties from the sales is entirely coincidental - to check out a deeper analysis of back-masking and the Crowley angle. You're right that there's more to it than merely The-band-deny-it-and-only-religious-nuts-believe-it, but I think we're talking more about what fans get out of the music and the mystique than what Page & Co. originally put into it. I'll look forward to your 10,000-word review, and remember your friends, family and co-workers all deserve their own copy.

I'll read it eventually. I read Mick Wall's book, and nothing could be worse than that.

I will say this.....a 52 year old life-long Zeppelin fan who calls himself Bong-man, probably shouldn't be anyone's "go to" source for anything. B)

Hope you're enjoying the easy Winter up there. I'm heading to Timmons this Summer for some family research. The beers on me....if they let me across that confounded bridge.

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a 52 year old life-long Zeppelin fan who calls himself Bong-man, probably shouldn't be anyone's "go to" source for anything. B)

Even for some Acapulco Gold.....? :hippy::peace:

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I haven't seen once thing on this thread that has convinced me that there isn't back-masking on "Stairway to Heaven". Evester's supposed clarification of Crowley's call to "read, write, in reverse" is about as clear as the back-masking itself.

I'm always amazed at others definitive interpetations of Crowley's activities. People have been doing that for over a 100 years. For my money, the best is "the world's first hippie...a spoiled man who died bitter and lonely." I put absolutely no stock in what he was trying to do, who he claimed to be, or what he was trying to accomplish at various points in his life, and that includes Thelema.

George...read your first book. No offense, but you offered nothing but the usual definitive "it's not there", and the usual rants against fundamental christians who have embraced this whole notion for their own twisted purpose.

Again, I think it exists, I think Jimmy put it there, and like the entire song musically and lyrically, it all revolves around Crowley. That includes the artwork, and also it's release as an untitled album.

I'm not waiting in the great Zeppelin pumpkin patch for an explanation or some definitive answer. It doesn't matter. What does matter is that by believing it's there, it enhances the listening experience of the song as Page intended. There are two paths in life....good and evil. One is forward, and one is reverse, and as you wind on down the road, the choice you make is yours and yours alone. "Do what thou wilt" is the rule of the law. Remember, it's not what you or I believe that matters....it's what Jimmy believes.

"Ours is the Sevenfold Path of Initiation: thou shalt transmute the base lead into the subtle Aurum Solis by rising on the Stairway of the Heavens in thy Secret Laboratorium on earth. Here is the Excellent Way! The steps of the Stairway are seven; the Laboratorium is Our Holy House of Song and Our Holy Rose Garden, which thou knowest so well. Yet to those who are vulgar, it is a secret even though they themselves possess it.")

The Book of the Elder Kings

I guess you did not read my previous posts on this subject which approaches the whole concept from a scientific perspective. Everything I mentioned was a result of both quantifiable and qualifiable research studies done over several years of which the results have been published and the research experiments duplicated. There is no question, the fact is even if someone did mechanical backward masking (ELO, Prince (Darling Nikki) for example)), it does NOTHING on ANY level. Second, it is pretty much impossible with 1971 technology to do any sort of "natural" backward masking whereby whatever is sung forward will repeat a clear phrase in reverse. The best audio engineers tried this many, many times and found it IMPOSSIBLE to do. Again, if you hear anything when playing a record backward it is simply coincidence and an attempt by your brain to make sense out of nonsense as that is how the brain works. That is also how an illusionist can do what he / she does, they use simple mind tricks to make things like the Empire State building to disappear. Just simple, provable, and repeatable scientific proof.

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I guess you did not read my previous posts on this subject which approaches the whole concept from a scientific perspective. Everything I mentioned was a result of both quantifiable and qualifiable research studies done over several years of which the results have been published and the research experiments duplicated. There is no question, the fact is even if someone did mechanical backward masking (ELO, Prince (Darling Nikki) for example)), it does NOTHING on ANY level. Second, it is pretty much impossible with 1971 technology to do any sort of "natural" backward masking whereby whatever is sung forward will repeat a clear phrase in reverse. The best audio engineers tried this many, many times and found it IMPOSSIBLE to do. Again, if you hear anything when playing a record backward it is simply coincidence and an attempt by your brain to make sense out of nonsense as that is how the brain works. That is also how an illusionist can do what he / she does, they use simple mind tricks to make things like the Empire State building to disappear. Just simple, provable, and repeatable scientific proof.

I agree with you here Sagg. I think by some fans believing or wanting to believe that the backwards message exist, it adds more to the story and the mystery and meaning of the song. I think Bong Man was saying that in a way- regardless if he truly believes it is there or not.

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I guess you did not read my previous posts on this subject which approaches the whole concept from a scientific perspective. Everything I mentioned was a result of both quantifiable and qualifiable research studies done over several years of which the results have been published and the research experiments duplicated. There is no question, the fact is even if someone did mechanical backward masking (ELO, Prince (Darling Nikki) for example)), it does NOTHING on ANY level.

I agree with your approach and your conclusion. At no point have I ever made the claim that Backmasking or any type of subliminal message is effective. In fact, I was the first here on another thread to point that out. Subliminal messages were once all the rage, and were supposed to be able to make you sleep better, quit smoking, buy a particular liquor, and go on out to the lobby for some delicious popcorn at the movies. All have been scientifically debunked.

But back-masking does exist, even if it doesn't work. That's a fact that a few people here can't seem to even admit. Let's try yet another example. This time from that trustworthy ant sniffer who calls himself Ozzy.....

The "Suicide Solution" lawsuit was filed in January 1986, and was thrown out of court in August of that year. At the court hearing, Howard Weintzman told the judge that if they were going to ban "Suicide Solution" and hold me responsible for some poor kid shooting himself, then they'd have to ban Shakespeare, cos Romeo and Juliet's about suicide too. He also said that the song lyrics were protected by the right of free speech in America. The judge agreed, but his summing up wasn't exactly friendly. He said that "although I was totally objectionable and repulsive, trash can be given first amendment protection too."

I had to read that sentence 5 times before I realized that the bloke had actually ruled in our favor.

The one thing the McCullam's were right about was that there was a subliminal message in 'Suicide Solution'. But it wasn't 'Get the gun, get the gun, shoot-shoot-shoot'. What I actually say is 'Get the flaps out, get the flaps out, bodge-bodge-bodge'. It was a stupid dirty joke at the time. If a chick took her kit off, we said she was getting her flaps out -- her piss flaps. And 'bodge' was a word we had for fuck. So I was basically saying, 'Get a chick naked and give her one', which was a whole lot different than saying 'Blow your brains out'.

This establishes two clear facts. Back-masking/subliminal messages do exist, yet they have absolutely no effect towards modifying or influencing your behavior in any way, shape, or form.

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Psychic Exposers and Shock Magicians Penn & Teller accurately observed 20 years ago that if backward-masking actually worked, Ozzy Ozbourne would have been elected Prime Minister of the UK. Complete and total bullshit.

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Jimmy is definitely a Satanist though. I used to own the property opposite his London residence, The Tower House. He could often be seen on a Friday night carrying a goat under each arm ready for sacrifice.

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Jimmy is definitely a Satanist though. I used to own the property opposite his London residence, The Tower House. He could often be seen on a Friday night carrying a goat under each arm ready for sacrifice.

:hysterical::witch: Edited by Rock Historian

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I agree with your approach and your conclusion. At no point have I ever made the claim that Backmasking or any type of subliminal message is effective. In fact, I was the first here on another thread to point that out. Subliminal messages were once all the rage, and were supposed to be able to make you sleep better, quit smoking, buy a particular liquor, and go on out to the lobby for some delicious popcorn at the movies. All have been scientifically debunked.

But back-masking does exist, even if it doesn't work. That's a fact that a few people here can't seem to even admit. Let's try yet another example. This time from that trustworthy ant sniffer who calls himself Ozzy.....

The "Suicide Solution" lawsuit was filed in January 1986, and was thrown out of court in August of that year. At the court hearing, Howard Weintzman told the judge that if they were going to ban "Suicide Solution" and hold me responsible for some poor kid shooting himself, then they'd have to ban Shakespeare, cos Romeo and Juliet's about suicide too. He also said that the song lyrics were protected by the right of free speech in America. The judge agreed, but his summing up wasn't exactly friendly. He said that "although I was totally objectionable and repulsive, trash can be given first amendment protection too."

I had to read that sentence 5 times before I realized that the bloke had actually ruled in our favor.

The one thing the McCullam's were right about was that there was a subliminal message in 'Suicide Solution'. But it wasn't 'Get the gun, get the gun, shoot-shoot-shoot'. What I actually say is 'Get the flaps out, get the flaps out, bodge-bodge-bodge'. It was a stupid dirty joke at the time. If a chick took her kit off, we said she was getting her flaps out -- her piss flaps. And 'bodge' was a word we had for fuck. So I was basically saying, 'Get a chick naked and give her one', which was a whole lot different than saying 'Blow your brains out'.

This establishes two clear facts. Back-masking/subliminal messages do exist, yet they have absolutely no effect towards modifying or influencing your behavior in any way, shape, or form.

Sorry Bong-Man, my apologies. I think I came off a bit pissy on that one. I think I had a bad day or something, maybe the taco stand girl gave me a dose and the burning was making me foul.

Take care and peace :buttsmack:

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I don think that conspiracy's true but the way you can find out is to play a vinyl of zeppelin IV backwards, I havent done it but i dont really care its a great song (the best song of all time) so who cares but that would be the easiest way to find out

Edited by stairwaydaze22

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Why would any body want to play a record backwards anyway, I remember years ago all these dickheads saying much the same about Beatles records. As someone previously stated I havent got any means of reversing my records on any of mt turntables (not that I've ever tried), anyway Stairway to hell sounds like a good working title.

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Here's the absolute truth,no bullshit:

If you play Stairway backwards,on a cloudless Oct 31,between 11:55PM and12:03AM Nov 1,you'll hear them pledge sympathy for the devil......

cool.gif

es solo un rumor que se le ocurre a la gente para joder, ademas, que tiene que ver el dia y la hora?? ayer escuche una cancion, hoy la escuche de nuevo, y suena muy parecida (mas bien igual). "Stairway to Heaven is a nice little song, charming, naive and very English." -Robert Plant. no tiene nada que ver con el diablo, son solo tontos rumores, igual que el trato con satanas, solo son cosas que inventa la gente. :hippy: :peace:

Edited by Johnny_Johnson

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Why would any body want to play a record backwards anyway, I remember years ago all these dickheads saying much the same about Beatles records. As someone previously stated I havent got any means of reversing my records on any of mt turntables .

Well, as I recall, you could put a half-twist on the belt of some old belt-driven turntables and they'd play backwards, or if you had a good direct-drive turntable with a variable speed feature, you could carefully spin the record backwards yourself and watch the side of the turntable to make sure you stayed at 33 1/3. Or you could just record it to a reel-to-reel, turn the tape around, rewind it and then the recording plays backwards over the tape heads.

The New Riders of the Purple Sage played around with backwards taping for psychedelic purposes back in '71, so did that band, Klaatu, in '72 or so-- I think the song was called "Little Neutrino", the lyrics were printed backwards on the album sleeve because the song was recorded backwards on the record. Of course the Beatles started all of this back in '65 (I think) with "Rain", and Jimi Hendrix hid a 78 r,p.m. message on "Nine to the Universe" (but it wasn't backwards).

Looking through the book "The Great Beatles Death Clues" one is constantly mind-boggled at the amount of bleary-eyed acid-burnout time people must have spent finding all of these "clues", some of which, of course, include parts where one hears "John is dead man, miss him, miss him" and of course Revolution No. 9's plethora of spliced and backwards clues.

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To change the subject slightly referring to walter's walk on the great Beatles death clues, I have still got a magazine from the 70's called Mc Cartney - A beatle on Wings- and in it is an in depth article on the alleged death of Macca, that refers to playing certain tracks backwards to reveal (allegedly) someone saying wake up daed man and walk. They also went as far as to say that when John said I'm very bored....He was actually saying I buried Paul.

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