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SteveAJones

MOVIE QUESTIONS: The Song Remains The Same

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[The internet allows some people to communicate to others in a way that, if done in real life, would be considered the height of rudeness and shameful self-entitlement. Whither grace, etiquette, wit and just a little politeness, please! The world is full of enough empty cacaphonies].

Now, to the esteemed OP: We have read many times about how TSRTS visuals were not allowed to be recut at all, leaving some awful edits - notably the one beat cut in No Quarter - whereas the soundtrack was free to reassemble. My question is: do we know precisely why the visuals were deemed completely untouchable? It seems strange in an era where re-editing is a commonly accepted procedure (even if one considers that there might not be much extra footage to work with). Do we know if this was a legal judgement or private agreement between the band, the directors and Warner Bros, or simply part of the original contract?

Cheers,

TK

Edited by Triplet Kick

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[The internet allows some people to communicate to others in a way that, if done in real life, would be considered the height of rudeness and shameful self-entitlement. Whither grace, etiquette, wit and just a little politeness, please! The world is full of enough empty cacaphonies].

Now, to the esteemed OP: We have read many times about how TSRTS visuals were not allowed to be recut at all, leaving some awful edits - notably the one beat cut in No Quarter - whereas the soundtrack was free to reassemble. My question is: do we know precisely why the visuals were deemed completely untouchable? It seems strange in an era where re-editing is a commonly accepted procedure (even if one considers that there might not be much extra footage to work with). Do we know if this was a legal judgement or private agreement between the band, the directors and Warner Bros, or simply part of the original contract?

Cheers,

TK

The short answer is Warner Brothers owns the rights to the film; the band can't re-edit a single frame. I imagine an agreement to do so could be reached but WB doesn't seem interested and it may be a very protracted process given they fired the first director, Joe Massot, and had a falling out with his replacement, Peter Clifton.

I do remember when the remastered dvd went on sale (2007) it was then recalled and reissued without inclusion of The Kinks' background music on the bonus

Jimmy Page interview segment with Cameron Crowe. So there are actually two "versions" of that official release.

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The short answer is Warner Brothers owns the rights to the film; the band can't re-edit a single frame.

Thanks Steve. It does seem, then, to be a rare case of Zep not owning 100% of one of their works, which is odd considering they apparently funded TSRTS themselves. Ho hum, guess we'll have to live with it.

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Thanks Steve. It does seem, then, to be a rare case of Zep not owning 100% of one of their works, which is odd considering they apparently funded TSRTS themselves. Ho hum, guess we'll have to live with it.

Retaining 100% artistic control is one thing but rights, licensing, distribution, royalties and so forth is another.

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If Joe Massot was still alive, Jimmy Page could have possibly reached an agreement to allow for a new edit of TSRTS. But Massot died in 2002.

But as I mentioned long ago, Jimmy could have avoided this impasse by just giving the project a different name. If he had just titled it "Live at Madison Square Garden" or something catchy, he wouldn't have had to follow the edits of the original film.

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Even though I have the collectors edition dvd, I actually watched this on VH1 Classics the other night.

I know this has been gone over here and there, but I can't remember the story....Why is JPJ wearing that goofy wig ? It is a wig...right ?

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Even though I have the collectors edition dvd, I actually watched this on VH1 Classics the other night.

I know this has been gone over here and there, but I can't remember the story....Why is JPJ wearing that goofy wig ? It is a wig...right ?

Jonesey had cut his hair after the 1973 tour(perhaps in preparation for becoming Choirmaster), so when they reshot some bits he wore a wig. Why he couldn't find a better one than that is a mystery, though. That made the one Cary Grant wore in "I Was a Male War Bride" look sophisticated.

Poor Jones.

Anyway, if you look at photos of the 1975 U.S. tour, you can see how short his hair was. I actually think this tour was one of his best "looks", stylistically...the short hair, the black shirt and vest. He looked cool...miles better than the goofy hair and mustache and 5-string bass from 1973.

1972 and 1975 were the tours I saw where Jones looked the best.

Edited by Strider

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I do remember when the remastered dvd went on sale (2007) it was then recalled and reissued without inclusion of The Kinks' background music on the bonus

Jimmy Page interview segment with Cameron Crowe. So there are actually two "versions" of that official release.

Wait, there's a bonus interview with Jimmy on the DVD??? I must have missed that...

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^yeah, it was with Cameron Crowe but got nixed shortly after several already went out. My copy has the interview.

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I wonder why?

They had to pull it because the '76-era interview of Jimmy by Cameron Crowe to promote the film at one point includes one of The Kinks songs as background music when he discusses that era of his life in music. It seems lawyers got involved. Call it Ray Davies revenge.

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They had to pull it because the '76-era interview of Jimmy by Cameron Crowe to promote the film at one point includes one of The Kinks songs as background music when he discusses that era of his life in music. It seems lawyers got involved. Call it Ray Davies revenge.

do you know aproximately how many copies were shipped and sold before it was pulled? did the re-release still include Crowes interview without the Kinks music? or was the interview completely removed?

thanx

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do you know aproximately how many copies were shipped and sold before it was pulled? did the re-release still include Crowe's interview without the Kinks music? or was the interview completely removed?

thanx

First, just to clarify we're talking about Warner Brothers' Special Edition releases of TSRTS (2007 & 2008).

Unsure how many copies of each format were shipped before the last minute recall, but it is known that the interview was included on the original pressing of each format (DVD, HD HDV & Blu-ray) and copies of each format with the interview were manufactured and solo. Following the recall, the re-released versions had the interview removed altogether from the discs and the covers.

Unfortunately the Blu-ray version of this concert has a 7-second long sound dropout in the TrueHD soundtrack at timecode 1:40:45 - all copies of the Blu-ray were affected. The TrueHD soundtrack of the previously released HD DVD does not suffer from this dropout (nor does the Blu-ray's lower quality DD soundtrack), so it's clear this is an encoding screw-up on Warner's part.

http://www.ledzeppelin.com/news/2007/10/24/led-zeppelin-song-remains-same-special-edition

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I do remember when the remastered dvd went on sale (2007) it was then recalled and reissued without inclusion of The Kinks' background music on the bonus

Jimmy Page interview segment with Cameron Crowe. So there are actually two "versions" of that official release.

Come on now Steve get it right. There is no interview with Jimmy Page. The Kinks "You Really Got Me" is playing in the background when Cameron Crowe is talking about Page's 60s session work (at the 5.15 mark) in the "Radio Profile Spotlight by Cameron Crowe [1976]" segment. My Blu-Ray and DVD both have this segment.

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Who is the undientified young guy who Peter's other hitman with Richard? He drives the car too in Peter's sequence. I have always wondered who that is.

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Thank-you Strider. Poor guy looks right out of the story he's reading. VH1 Classics cuts out the entire gangster scene.

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Anybody know a good part of the movie where the wig is blatantly visible? I should re watch the part where he is reading the story.

Also, how about a clear example of the Shepperton reenactment?

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The short answer is Warner Brothers owns the rights to the film; the band can't re-edit a single frame. I imagine an agreement to do so could be reached but WB doesn't seem interested and it may be a very protracted process given they fired the first director, Joe Massot, and had a falling out with his replacement, Peter Clifton.

I do remember when the remastered dvd went on sale (2007) it was then recalled and reissued without inclusion of The Kinks' background music on the bonus

Jimmy Page interview segment with Cameron Crowe. So there are actually two "versions" of that official release.

Is that the same as the "Radio Spot Light" Cameron Crowe does? If it isn't than the deleux version I have doesn't have it either.

I do have the interview CD Jimmy did around the time of the movie, but the interviewer in British.

Edited by aen27

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It's the "Radio Spotlight Profile" with the KInks "You Really Got Me" playing as Crowe is talking about Jimmys 60s session work that has been removed for copyright reasons.. There never was an actual interview with Jimmy Page with the Kinks playing in the background. If your copy has not got the "Radio Spotlight Profile", then you have the re-issue.

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Anybody know a good part of the movie where the wig is blatantly visible? I should re watch the part where he is reading the story.

Also, how about a clear example of the Shepperton reenactment?

All the pre-concert bits with Jones show him with that Prince Valiant/Little Lord Fauntleroy wig...reading to his children; the scene in the kitchen with Mo where he gets the tour dates..."ah, tour dates-this is tomorrow!".

Also, look during "No Quarter"...as the song shifts from actual concert footage to Jones' fantasy, you see him with the wig, starting with him seated at that giant church organ during the keyboard solo part of the song.

As for the Shepperton bits, "Black Dog" has a bunch...during the guitar solo you can even see Jones in his wig...also the Bonham closeups are Shepperton.

In Dazed and Confused, there's a long dolly shot of Jimmy that ends with the camera zooming into Jimmy's eyeball as the footage then shifts to the guy being chased by concert security...that shot is from the Shepperton reshoot.

Stairway has some bits that look like Shepperton as Robert and the lighting keep switching.

Whole Lotta Love has some Shepperton footage...as the band comes out of the Boogie Mama section into the "Way down inside" part.

I'd have to watch the movie again to find other examples, but the above is what I remember most.

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OK since this thread seems to be resurected, I have a question.

Been a Zeppelin fan for over thirty five years and seen TSRTS a thousand times but I still don't get the significance of the other characters in the Gangster scene,.

Specifically the Wolf getting shot and sand coming out, Nazi cards, the eyeless man, clear liquid blood from one of the character as he slides down the mirror, etc. Is it a metaphor or am I reading to much into it.

Can somebody give me their opinion.

Edited by The 4 Runes

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OK since this thread seems to be resurected, I have a question.

Been a Zeppelin fan for over thirty five years and seen TSRTS a thousand times but I still don't get the significance of the other characters in the Gangster scene,.

Specifically the Wolf getting shot and sand coming out, Nazi cards, the eyeless man, clear liquid blood from one of the character as he slides down the mirror, etc. Is it a metaphor or am I reading to much into it.

Can somebody give me their opinion.

In my opinion the scene is purposefully left open to interpretation. I think it's meant to show Peter Grant securing artistic and financial control for the group from all the blood-thirsty powers that be. It's no coincidence the next scene shows Peter Grant smiling on the telephone at home whilst confirming the details of their next tour.

Edited by SteveAJones

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In my opinion the scene is purposefully left open to interpretation. I think it's meant to show Peter Grant securing artistic and financial control for the group from all the blood-thirsty powers that be. It's no coincidence the next scene shows Peter Grant smiling on the telephone at home whilst confirming the details of their next tour.

Or, as Hunter S. Thompson would put it:

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs."

Also, werewolves being shot and rainbow-coloured blood look cool to a theatre full of stoners.

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