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New box sets including unreleased material

JTM

By JTM
in Led Zeppelin Reissues

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Melcórë

Melcórë

Posted
Posted

The entire project was a travesty. Way too many overdubs.

They could've chosen the best version of each song and released them without overdubs. Something like:

Stairway (27th)

No Quarter (28th)

Dazed (27th)

The entire album can be made up from three different nights without overdubbing.

You keep saying "overdubs." You do realize that the majority of the "overdubs" are recordings from the other nights, right? Only a handful of legitimate studio "overdubs," and less of them on the 2007 release than the original film.

That being said...I'd love an uncut concert release for any of the MSG 1973 shows. It isn't going to happen anytime soon, though.

Kevin Shirley.

Hmm. Difficult to say if it was his call or not -- sometimes the CD audio mimics the DVD, sometimes it doesn't. Maybe it was an issue of time...

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Geezer

Geezer

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Posted

That being said...I'd love an uncut concert release for any of the MSG 1973 shows. It isn't going to happen anytime soon, though.

But we have to get at least SOME live material. The only possibilities are:

RAH 1970 (hasn't been issued on CD)

Japan 1971 (assuming of course Jimmy is in possession of the master tapes)

Forum/Long Beach 1972 (both or at least one of the concerts issued separately on CD. I doubt this will happen)

Southampton 1973 (highly likely)

MSG 1973 (if they're going to use at least something from these concerts, they'll have to forget about overdubbing. Some new/unaltered footage would be nice too)

Earls Court 1975 (hasn't been issued on CD. They can release all five concerts separately but they won't do it)

Pontiac 1977 (assuming of course Jimmy is in possession of the videotape. If he is, then I think at least some of the songs will be released)

Seattle 1977 (highly unlikely)

Knebworth 1979 (hasn't been issued on CD. They can release both concerts separately, but they won't do it)

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ledzepfilm

ledzepfilm

Posted
Posted

RAH is unlikely, but it would be nice to have the two missing songs.

Japan is very likely.

Forum/Long Beach is unlikely, but maybe a few alternate songs will be included

Southhampton is very likely.

MSG I'm in the middle. It could or won't be released.

Earls Court is unlikely unless they release unreleased songs, preferably from 5/23 if possible.

Pontiac and Seattle are unlikely.

Knebworth is likely.

There must be more in the archives we're not aware of.

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Geezer

Geezer

Posted
Posted

I'd say Japan is very likely as long as Jimmy has those tapes.

I wouldn't say Knebworth is any more likely than MSG.

There must be more in the archives we're not aware of.

I agree. The band played around 650 shows. There must be more multitracked shows that we don't know of.
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Melcórë

Melcórë

Posted
Posted

It's been all quiet here!

Last thing I heard is that Jimmy is in the US to finish up the mixing of the albums.

And Eddie Kramer posted this today.

Image source: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=493639580704183&set=a.304749109593232.67966.221973561204121&type=1

Hmm. I'd love to know where you "heard" that from. ;)

Regarding Eddie...I think it's far more likely (as I've said elsewhere) that he's working on another Hendrix project, one of the live releases they've mentioned recently.

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Dallas Knebs

Dallas Knebs

Posted
Posted

Conventional wisdom is that this is a Hendrix redo. Guitar pushed waaaay up. Only one channel for original drum kit in and it is punched out. Plate reverb pushed waay up. Two stage mics in + a vocal lead. Doesn't look like a Led Zeppelin mix. Need to see what channels 1, 2, 3 are. Can't imagine Page wanting audience rear channel so loud either. Likely a Hendrix revisit.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=494537030614438&set=pb.221973561204121.-2207520000.1374252281.&type=3&theater

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SuperDave

SuperDave

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Posted

Conventional wisdom is that this is a Hendrix redo. Guitar pushed waaaay up. Only one channel for original drum kit in and it is punched out. Plate reverb pushed waay up. Two stage mics in + a vocal lead. Doesn't look like a Led Zeppelin mix. Need to see what channels 1, 2, 3 are. Can't imagine Page wanting audience rear channel so loud either. Likely a Hendrix revisit.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=494537030614438&set=pb.221973561204121.-2207520000.1374252281.&type=3&theater

You may be right. I don't know much about how mixes are done as far as how much guitar, drums etc. Being a musician, you obviously know much more about this than I do. Than it may be another Hendrix release.

Perhaps DK, you could explain as best as you can, how you know and think a Zeppelin mix (depending on the song) would be done. At least so us non engineers or musicians can comprehend.

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Melcórë

Melcórë

Posted
Posted

Eddie Kramer (or whoever runs his Twitter account) just favourited every one of my tweets speculating about him working on Led Zeppelin remasters.

Maybe he just favourites every tweet which references him? Considering his rather forward (and potentially seen-as-rude) comments about Page in recent years, I find it highly unlikely that he would be enlisted for the remaster project.

I'll stick with Knebs' "conventional wisdom" -- Royal Albert Hall 1969 has been on the docket for a while now, as has Miami Pop 1968.

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Cookie0024

Cookie0024

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Posted

Maybe he just favourites every tweet which references him? Considering his rather forward (and potentially seen-as-rude) comments about Page in recent years, I find it highly unlikely that he would be enlisted for the remaster project.

I'll stick with Knebs' "conventional wisdom" -- Royal Albert Hall 1969 has been on the docket for a while now, as has Miami Pop 1968.

Yeah that's what I thought, I checked his favourites and he doesn't favourite every single post, just most. Might even be automated.

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Dallas Knebs

Dallas Knebs

Posted
Posted

Perhaps DK, you could explain as best as you can, how you know and think a Zeppelin mix (depending on the song) would be done. At least so us non engineers or musicians can comprehend.

Without question Page is one of my favorite producers. He instructs the engineers to mix so the listener can hear what is going on. Page typically favors a ton of cymbals/hi-hat/chink ring. If you want to hear bass, you can hear it. Keys- you can hear it.

Many of the studio tracks for Led Zeppelin are non-compliant with industry norms. That is to say- much to Robert Plant's chagrin, vocals are pushed down on many tracks so as to give room for what else is going on.

More of "us" and less of "me" dictum.

Page didn't mix to please, he mixed to get it right from his point of view. I used to study his work by mapping out Left channel/Right channel mixes track by track. Some of them are just "wtf are you thinking" but when its brought together in sum it creates and image that is accessible. He is an artist living as a musician and producer and it shows. Page's formula is to not have a formula. Each track is a stand alone gem instantly recognizable, razor sharp and cuts deep.

Even on the O2 mixes I go nuts listening to the mix he approved since it is not normative. Hats waaaay up. Kick waaaay big. Cymbals on the edge of squashing things. Gahhhh it's not perfect !!!! << winces and screams of no no no from me >>

Typical for an early ShowCo four piece house mix gig:

Line 1: Kick

Line 2: Snare

Line 3: Overhead

Line 4: Overhead

Line 5: Bass

Line 6: Keys

Line 7: Lead Vocal

Line 8: Stage Mic(Page)

Line 9: Guitar Mic

Line10: Guitar Mic

Line11: Backup 7

Line12: Backup line-in open

This would be sent to recording as follows:

Track 1: Kit summed

Track 2: Bass/Keys

Track 3: Vocals

Track 4: Guitar

Later as equipment allowed for more lines in:

Kick

Snare

Hats

Overhead

Overhead

Distance Mic

Bass1

Bass2

Keys 1

Keys 2/Guitar

Vocal1

Stage Mic1

Stage Mic2

Guitar1

Guitar2 (acoustic)

Guitar3 (acoustic JPJ)

StageGear1

StageGear2

Backup1

Backup2

Just glancing at Kramer's picture, the layout is not an exact match to what I have seen. However, this alone does not rule it out since everything including recording gear was different show by show. May get a big surprise. I looked at pictures for '68 Miami Pop and E.C. and the setups there are more closely aligned to the picture on Kramer's facebook by count of stage mics and instrumentation. Really want to see what tracks 1,2,3 are... the picture was cropped intentionally to exclude them.

I would think Page would have Kramer on lock down (no hints).

For the O2 I heard at one time 34 channels were devoted to the drum kit. Don't know if that's what they ended up with. Can't imagine trying to gate and phase correct all that.

Who knows, maybe Kramer will spill the beans soon. Sure seems like he is headed that way.

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Cookie0024

Cookie0024

Posted
Posted

Without question Page is one of my favorite producers. He instructs the engineers to mix so the listener can hear what is going on. Page typically favors a ton of cymbals/hi-hat/chink ring. If you want to hear bass, you can hear it. Keys- you can hear it.

Many of the studio tracks for Led Zeppelin are non-compliant with industry norms. That is to say- much to Robert Plant's chagrin, vocals are pushed down on many tracks so as to give room for what else is going on.

More of "us" and less of "me" dictum.

Page didn't mix to please, he mixed to get it right from his point of view. I used to study his work by mapping out Left channel/Right channel mixes track by track. Some of them are just "wtf are you thinking" but when its brought together in sum it creates and image that is accessible. He is an artist living as a musician and producer and it shows. Page's formula is to not have a formula. Each track is a stand alone gem instantly recognizable, razor sharp and cuts deep.

Even on the O2 mixes I go nuts listening to the mix he approved since it is not normative. Hats waaaay up. Kick waaaay big. Cymbals on the edge of squashing things. Gahhhh it's not perfect !!!! << winces and screams of no no no from me >>

Typical for an early ShowCo four piece house mix gig:

Line 1: Kick

Line 2: Snare

Line 3: Overhead

Line 4: Overhead

Line 5: Bass

Line 6: Keys

Line 7: Lead Vocal

Line 8: Stage Mic(Page)

Line 9: Guitar Mic

Line10: Guitar Mic

Line11: Backup 7

Line12: Backup line-in open

This would be sent to recording as follows:

Track 1: Kit summed

Track 2: Bass/Keys

Track 3: Vocals

Track 4: Guitar

Later as equipment allowed for more lines in:

Kick

Snare

Hats

Overhead

Overhead

Distance Mic

Bass1

Bass2

Keys 1

Keys 2/Guitar

Vocal1

Stage Mic1

Stage Mic2

Guitar1

Guitar2 (acoustic)

Guitar3 (acoustic JPJ)

StageGear1

StageGear2

Backup1

Backup2

Just glancing at Kramer's picture, the layout is not an exact match to what I have seen. However, this alone does not rule it out since everything including recording gear was different show by show. May get a big surprise. I looked at pictures for '68 Miami Pop and E.C. and the setups there are more closely aligned to the picture on Kramer's facebook by count of stage mics and instrumentation. Really want to see what tracks 1,2,3 are... the picture was cropped intentionally to exclude them.

I would think Page would have Kramer on lock down (no hints).

For the O2 I heard at one time 34 channels were devoted to the drum kit. Don't know if that's what they ended up with. Can't imagine trying to gate and phase correct all that.

Who knows, maybe Kramer will spill the beans soon. Sure seems like he is headed that way.

This is an awesome post. Thanks DK!

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Cookie0024

Cookie0024

Posted
Posted

Here's something I wrote for a friend a while back chronicling how the news of the Celebration Day release broke. It might be interesting to see it now.

09/07/2012 - The Peter Mensch tweet.

today, Moulder continues with his stellar mixing of the O2 show. it's been 5 years coming and it's almost here.

This tweet from Led Zeppelin (band)/Jimmy Page manager Peter Mensch explains that the O2 show is being mixed by Alan Moulder, who has previously worked withThem Crooked Vultures. [1]

25/07/2012 - The Eddie Trunk tweet.

Heard from a very reliable source backstage at Aerosmith show that there will be some sort of Led Zeppelin activity around Christmas...

This tweet [2] from US radio host Eddie Trunk confirms some Led Zeppelin 'activity' happening later on in the year. Who is his 'very reliable source'? Well the likeliest option is Ross Halfin, one of Jimmy's best friends and also a concert photographer. The diary entry on Ross Halfin's website [3] confirms that he was at the concert that Eddie Trunk is referring to.

04/09/2012 - The Belgian news article.
This article [4] appeared on the site of a state-owned Belgian radio station, which is, so I gather, a reliable source of information. Shortly after it was posted the author's name was removed, now the article itself has been removed.

07/09/2012 - The reactivation of the Led Zeppelin Facebook and Twitter.
The official Led Zeppelin Facebook page posted a cryptic one-word status update. [5] This is significant as there has been no activity since March. Couple this with the fact that the official Led Zeppelin Twitter account [6] went live, and we have definite proof that something is on the way. The sole tweet [7] is the same 'Hello' that was posted on the Facebook page, but this time with the #ledzeppelin hashtag. This hints at further developments in the future, as a hashtag makes it easier to keep track of news. Also note that confirmation of the Twitter account going live was posted on a thread on the official Led Zeppelin forum about the possibility of an O2 show DVD release in November, by the site webmaster, who had clearly been monitoring the thread.

08/09/2012 - The 'FIVE' image
The 'FIVE' image was posted on both the band's official Facebook page [8] and the day-old Twitter account [9] . No description was provided.

09/09/2012 - The second Peter Mensch tweet

it's almost here. I've seen it and heard it. almost 5 years to the day.

This tweet [10] from Led Zeppelin manager Peter Mensch alludes to the five year anniversary of the O2 show, as did his previous tweet listed here and the 'FIVE' image. This is the first mention of a release date for the show, 'almost 5 years to the day'. This makes it seem likely that it will be released in early December 2012, as the concert was on the 10th of that month. 'I've seen it and heard it' is presumed to refer to the O2 show being released on both DVD and CD.

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SuperDave

SuperDave

Posted
Posted

Without question Page is one of my favorite producers. He instructs the engineers to mix so the listener can hear what is going on. Page typically favors a ton of cymbals/hi-hat/chink ring. If you want to hear bass, you can hear it. Keys- you can hear it.

Many of the studio tracks for Led Zeppelin are non-compliant with industry norms. That is to say- much to Robert Plant's chagrin, vocals are pushed down on many tracks so as to give room for what else is going on.

More of "us" and less of "me" dictum.

Page didn't mix to please, he mixed to get it right from his point of view. I used to study his work by mapping out Left channel/Right channel mixes track by track. Some of them are just "wtf are you thinking" but when its brought together in sum it creates and image that is accessible. He is an artist living as a musician and producer and it shows. Page's formula is to not have a formula. Each track is a stand alone gem instantly recognizable, razor sharp and cuts deep.

Even on the O2 mixes I go nuts listening to the mix he approved since it is not normative. Hats waaaay up. Kick waaaay big. Cymbals on the edge of squashing things. Gahhhh it's not perfect !!!! << winces and screams of no no no from me >>

Typical for an early ShowCo four piece house mix gig:

Line 1: Kick

Line 2: Snare

Line 3: Overhead

Line 4: Overhead

Line 5: Bass

Line 6: Keys

Line 7: Lead Vocal

Line 8: Stage Mic(Page)

Line 9: Guitar Mic

Line10: Guitar Mic

Line11: Backup 7

Line12: Backup line-in open

This would be sent to recording as follows:

Track 1: Kit summed

Track 2: Bass/Keys

Track 3: Vocals

Track 4: Guitar

Later as equipment allowed for more lines in:

Kick

Snare

Hats

Overhead

Overhead

Distance Mic

Bass1

Bass2

Keys 1

Keys 2/Guitar

Vocal1

Stage Mic1

Stage Mic2

Guitar1

Guitar2 (acoustic)

Guitar3 (acoustic JPJ)

StageGear1

StageGear2

Backup1

Backup2

Just glancing at Kramer's picture, the layout is not an exact match to what I have seen. However, this alone does not rule it out since everything including recording gear was different show by show. May get a big surprise. I looked at pictures for '68 Miami Pop and E.C. and the setups there are more closely aligned to the picture on Kramer's facebook by count of stage mics and instrumentation. Really want to see what tracks 1,2,3 are... the picture was cropped intentionally to exclude them.

I would think Page would have Kramer on lock down (no hints).

For the O2 I heard at one time 34 channels were devoted to the drum kit. Don't know if that's what they ended up with. Can't imagine trying to gate and phase correct all that.

Who knows, maybe Kramer will spill the beans soon. Sure seems like he is headed that way.

Thanks Dallas Knebs for this great info. Perhaps, we will find out shortly if Eddie Kramer is actually involved in these remasters and the live material that may be included. Seems like we may get some real gems.

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SuperDave

SuperDave

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I just checked the LZ timeline and nothing is mentioned there in 1968 at Miami Pop. They didn't perform their first USA show until December, 1968. It seems they only played Miami in 1969 in February for two shows at Thee Image Club. Perhaps, you mixed this up with another festival and have your dates wrong?

Just glancing at Kramer's picture, the layout is not an exact match to what I have seen. However, this alone does not rule it out since everything including recording gear was different show by show. May get a big surprise. I looked at pictures for '68 Miami Pop and E.C. and the setups there are more closely aligned to the picture on Kramer's facebook by count of stage mics and instrumentation. Really want to see what tracks 1,2,3 are... the picture was cropped intentionally to exclude them.

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