Barney Hoskyns book

[Melcórë]

I just thought it was an opportunity to renounce drug use bearing in mind it cost him his drive, creativity, his looks and ultimately the band he created. A bit of humility was called for instead of no regrets IMO.

In the beginning, it didn't hinder him all that much -- it was in the difficult, post-76 period that I think he really got into the drug.

He's still alive...better to be happy than live in horror of your past.

[zeppy668]

In the beginning, it didn't hinder him all that much -- it was in the difficult, post-76 period that I think he really got into the drug.

He's still alive...better to be happy than live in horror of your past.

I would argue that drugs and alcohol began taking their toll much earlier on him and the band; they were just able to cope with it better because they were younger and heroin hadn't gotten completely involved. There are performances in 73 and especially 75 where Page's playing is pretty shotty. To his defense, both tours had bouts where he had hand injuries and he turned to the bottle to self-medicate. And I would argue that drinking was more of Page's problem when it came to his uneven live performances from 75-80. I do believe, as Led Zebedee said, substance abuse in general robbed him of his talents and his creativity. Even years later when he recovered, his playing was never quite the same again.

Why did he and the rest of them take drugs? Because they thought they were invincible. They had immeasurably large egos, even if they weren't always acting like assholes. I can understand why he doesn't really like to discuss that part of his personality during that time in his life. I'm sure he doesn't look upon himself in high regard during that time period and besides that, it's really no ones business. However, the people he worked with and surrounded himself with saw it first hand and decided to speak about it so he really can't do much but own who he was. That's why I enjoyed Hoskyn's book. They were finally humanized without the road antics as a backdrop to the narrative.

I'm grateful the man has survived this long too. I do firmly believe he would not have made it out of the 1980s alive had Led Zeppelin continued. He is clearly happy with his legacy and whatever demons he has, he seems to have battled them and won. As a fan, I'm thankful for that.

Now hit the road already Jimmy, you've got fans waiting to see you melt some faces!

[mstork]

I think my favourite quote from the book is this one:

Pagey, from page 269. Ostensibly from Hoskyn's 2003 interview with him. I've never seen/heard him be so candid. That is the reason to own this book -- the frankness portrayed within.

Agreed, that quote leaped out at me too!

[phredzeppelin63]

beats the holy hell outta me? I do know he,grant and page were not at the funeral,and cole and bonzo was.

[phredzeppelin63]

these did not make it in the book.

[clw]

you must have made that first one,oh soo awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

these did not make it in the book.

[phredzeppelin63]

no,i stole them! when it comes to pcs,i do not $**t from sunshine!

[ListenToThis]

Edited

[clw]

Just got my book today!

[Melcórë]

I would argue that drugs and alcohol began taking their toll much earlier on him and the band; they were just able to cope with it better because they were younger and heroin hadn't gotten completely involved. There are performances in 73 and especially 75 where Page's playing is pretty shotty. To his defense, both tours had bouts where he had hand injuries and he turned to the bottle to self-medicate. And I would argue that drinking was more of Page's problem when it came to his uneven live performances from 75-80. I do believe, as Led Zebedee said, substance abuse in general robbed him of his talents and his creativity. Even years later when he recovered, his playing was never quite the same again.

I don't really disagree with any of this, but Page has (I believe) struggled continuously throughout the years with hand-related injuries, which (again, I believe) persist to this day. I'd argue that has had a more detrimental effect on his playing than drug use which occurred almost thirty years ago.

[LedZebedee]

I don't really disagree with any of this, but Page has (I believe) struggled continuously throughout the years with hand-related injuries, which (again, I believe) persist to this day. I'd argue that has had a more detrimental effect on his playing than drug use

which occurred almost thirty years ago.

Since Page has admitted the 02 gig in 2007 was the first gig he had ever played sober it would suggest booze did the damage following giving up drugs in '83. He might have some sort of arthiritic condition now due to age but not playing regularly is not going to help.

[BONZOLED942]

beats the holy hell outta me? I do know he,grant and page were not at the funeral,and cole and bonzo was.

Yeah to me there is NO excuse. I am reading another book in which Cole says he went along with Boham when Plant flew back to England so that explains why the three of them were at the Funeral. He says Grant was in Long Island NY with his kids, he had just gotten a divirce so he had to look after his kids ( lame excuse) and he said Page was in Egypt. He doesnt say why page was there but it doesnt make sense to me because the band was scheduled to play on their tour at those times so why go to Egypt and not England to be with Robert?? Jones was driving an Rv with his family so he was unreachable at the time.

[Melcórë]

Yeah to me there is NO excuse. I am reading another book in which Cole says he went along with Boham when Plant flew back to England so that explains why the three of them were at the Funeral. He says Grant was in Long Island NY with his kids, he had just gotten a divirce so he had to look after his kids ( lame excuse) and he said Page was in Egypt. He doesnt say why page was there but it doesnt make sense to me because the band was scheduled to play on their tour at those times so why go to Egypt and not England to be with Robert?? Jones was driving an Rv with his family so he was unreachable at the time.

Have you read this book? Cole is a notoriously difficult man to take seriously -- all of his statements have to be taken with a grain of salt, or more. In Hoskyns' book, for example, he claims the (much more likely) story that "no one knew where Jimmy was: he was either in New Orleans or he'd stayed in San Francisco with a Moroccan belly dancer" (p.376). He also says that "John Paul was out of contact; he only knew to be back in New Orleans for the show at the Superdome."

Grant is painted as being on vacation with his family in New York, as elsewhere...

We shouldn't judge a personal issue between friends which occurred thirty-six years ago.

[Disco Duck]

I don't really disagree with any of this, but Page has (I believe) struggled continuously throughout the years with hand-related injuries, which (again, I believe) persist to this day. I'd argue that has had a more detrimental effect on his playing than drug use which occurred almost thirty years ago.

This is the theory bandied about several guitar forums; that something happened to Page's fretting hand around 1973 and he never fully recovered. Some speculate that tendonitis is the culprit. Others speculate that his 1973 hand injury was more serious than the Zep camp let on.

[BONZOLED942]

Yes i read this book, and Im currently reading the book on Peter Grant which states what I wrote.

Have you read this book? Cole is a notoriously difficult man to take seriously -- all of his statements have to be taken with a grain of salt, or more. In Hoskyns' book, for example, he claims the (much more likely) story that "no one knew where Jimmy was: he was either in New Orleans or he'd stayed in San Francisco with a Moroccan belly dancer" (p.376). He also says that "John Paul was out of contact; he only knew to be back in New Orleans for the show at the Superdome."

Grant is painted as being on vacation with his family in New York, as elsewhere...

We shouldn't judge a personal issue between friends which occurred thirty-six years ago.

[Texas Melanie]

Have you read this book? Cole is a notoriously difficult man to take seriously -- all of his statements have to be taken with a grain of salt, or more. In Hoskyns' book, for example, he claims the (much more likely) story that "no one knew where Jimmy was: he was either in New Orleans or he'd stayed in San Francisco with a Moroccan belly dancer" (p.376). He also says that "John Paul was out of contact; he only knew to be back in New Orleans for the show at the Superdome."

Grant is painted as being on vacation with his family in New York, as elsewhere...

We shouldn't judge a personal issue between friends which occurred thirty-six years ago.

Exactly. Plus I get the impression that Cole is back in Jimmy's good graces so he is being rather vague on specifics lately I.e. the questions he has been answering through Facebook.

Regarding how Jimmy and Grant handled Robert's son' death well, how a person reacts to a stressful situation is quite different when he is a junkie. What happened in 77 should not be held against them all these years later.

[kenog]

Melanie,

As always, you are very perceptive - It's obvious from the question and answers sessions that Richard doesn't want to say anything which would jeopardise himself. That's why I don't bother putting a question forward - I wouldn't want a non-committal, bland answer.

Exactly. Plus I get the impression that Cole is back in Jimmy's good graces so he is being rather vague on specifics lately I.e. the questions he has been answering through Facebook.

Regarding how Jimmy and Grant handled Robert's son' death well, how a person reacts to a stressful situation is quite different when he is a junkie. What happened in 77 should not be held against them all these years later.

[Sagittarius Rising]

This is the theory bandied about several guitar forums; that something happened to Page's fretting hand around 1973 and he never fully recovered. Some speculate that tendonitis is the culprit. Others speculate that his 1973 hand injury was more serious than the Zep camp let on.

I never knew he injured his hand in 73', I knew about pre-75' tour injury but nothing about 73'. Either way, I don't believe injuries are what were responsible for some sloppy playing 77' - 80' and beyond. I believe it was more alcohol related than anything else simply because in 77' at the shows where he appeared more of his old self looks wise as being animated and cognizant of his surroundings on stage, his performance likewise was excellent. Of course tendonitis and / or arthritis will affect performance, I doubt it would affect him on say one day, than not the next, than fine for three performances and hit him again the next night. Also, those conditions would seriously slow down the movements of his fretting hand, however some of his solo's on the good nights in 77' showed his fastest playing to date.

Worth mentioning, while reading & listening to Neal Preston's new e-book he mentioned the third Chicago 77' show and very interesting details. Neal said Jimmy looked "possessed, demonic" that night. His hair was different, he looked and acted completely different. The few pictures he has of that evening shows this to be very true and Jimmy's appearance is downright scary, not unhealthy mind you, but fucking evil! During Ten Years Gone Jimmy sits down on the riser to play and Peter Grant runs onto the stage, stops the show, and Cole carries Jimmy off looking like he has used up 13 of his nine lives.

Everyone has always speculated he OD'd on Heroin or Coke but I have an alternate theory: I think Jimmy was dosed with Angel Dust (explains appearance and behavior). Just a theory but after looking at the pics and knowing what people look like on various drugs I really do not think coke or heroin were the culprit here. What I would like to know is how was his playing that night? That is until he was dragged off the stage.

Thoughts???

[Disco Duck]

I never knew he injured his hand in 73', I knew about pre-75' tour injury but nothing about 73'...

In 1973, he injured his hand on fence at Long Beach airport.

[zeppy668]

This is the theory bandied about several guitar forums; that something happened to Page's fretting hand around 1973 and he never fully recovered. Some speculate that tendonitis is the culprit. Others speculate that his 1973 hand injury was more serious than the Zep camp let on.

It's definitely possible. A re-lingering injury could come and go, adding notion to why in later years he sounded phenomenal at some shows and at others he had sticky fingers.

But remember, Page was still playing unbelievably well in July 1973. The injury occurred sometime around May 31-June 1, 1973. That leads me to believe he was able to recover somewhat. Granted, he's acknowledged his intake of cocaine at the end of the tour, which seemed to help his stamina.

We've all acknowledged it in one form or another. Regardless of a hand injury or not, substance abuse would rob him of his creative talents in later years. The well dried up for a few reasons but heroin and alcohol certainly had detrimental effects on him.

[ScarletMacaw]

I haven't read the Hoskyns book and have no interest. However, I have a few thoughts about some of the topics here:

1. I've had many soft tissue injuries and they are somewhat mysterious. I had a 10 year tendonitis in my right elbow that mysteriously disappeared last year.

2. Alcohol is much worse for you than heroin. Alcohol kills brain cells. Heroin is considered more dangerous because people develop tolerance more quickly, can overdose more easily, and now we know can get HIV and Hep B from needles...however, without those issues alcohol could be considered the worse drug.

3. Jimmy Page is obviously an extremely sensitive personality...sometimes those people can't handle extreme emotional trauma and avoid it (either through drugs or through just physically avoiding the traumatic situation or its cues).

[Daniel]

Sorry to sound like a sales person here but Amazon indicates that they have only one copy left and the description says first edition. I wonder if there is a way to tell if it's the first printing of the first edition? I've already been gifted a copy but maybe someone here is interested? It would only be fitting that it go to someone on this board.

http://www.amazon.com/Led-Zeppelin-History-Worlds-Greatest/dp/0470894326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368894070&sr=8-1&keywords=Barney+Hoskyns

P.S. I will update this post when the last copy is sold so that people don't waste their time going to the Amazon link...

[clw]

I got mine from Barnes and Noble

Sorry to sound like a sales person here but Amazon indicates that they have only one copy left and the description says first edition. I wonder if there is a way to tell if it's the first printing of the first edition? I've already been gifted a copy but maybe someone here is interested? It would only be fitting that it go to someone on this board.

http://www.amazon.com/Led-Zeppelin-History-Worlds-Greatest/dp/0470894326/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368894070&sr=8-1&keywords=Barney+Hoskyns

P.S. I will update this post when the last copy is sold so that people don't waste their time going to the Amazon link...

[Disco Duck]

I got mine from Barnes and Noble

I didn't buy a copy but borrowed one from my local public library.

[clw]

oh wow,the library had it,awesome

I didn't buy a copy but borrowed one from my local public library.