Rock Historian Posted October 3, 2014 Share Posted October 3, 2014 Mr. Bonham sounds, well, 'bored'. I feel the same, while listening to the Europe 80' gigs. Not ALL of them, but a fair share. He plays most things straight and tight. A much more reserved Bonham compared to previous tours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmic_juice Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I feel the same, while listening to the Europe 80' gigs. Not ALL of them, but a fair share. He plays most things straight and tight. A much more reserved Bonham compared to previous tours. I'm curious as to whether John Bonham playing "straight and tight" during 1980 was on purpose for any reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlyZeppelinaren Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'm curious as to whether John Bonham playing "straight and tight" during 1980 was on purpose for any reason? Interesting thought, I mean it was all very low key compared to the earlier tours, maybe he held back for the sake of the shows and Jimmy's state? Pure speculation of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'm curious as to whether John Bonham playing "straight and tight" during 1980 was on purpose for any reason? Interesting thought, I mean it was all very low key compared to the earlier tours, maybe he held back for the sake of the shows and Jimmy's state? Pure speculation of course I'd be inclined to say that, generally speaking, the whole band exhibited more restraint on the '80 tour as part of Page's "Cut The Waffle" philosophy. The extended versions of some of the songs at the final show in Berlin aside, the band never really cuts loose and lets it all hang out at all on that tour. Behind the scenes we know there was a fair bit of tension -especially as far as Plant was concerned- and I think that sort of reflected in the performances. Nobody wanted to step on anybody's toes, I don't think. That's why, for me, a lot of the 1980 performances are pretty interchangable; not to say they all sound the same, but they are pretty rote compared to other tours. I think, starting with the the 1979 shows, a bit of 'slick professionalism' was starting to creep in; gone were the days of massive improvisations and jamming onstage- they were more focused on the songs themselves. But yer both right, Bonham's playing in 1980 certainly was worlds apart from some of the monster drumming he provided in 1977 (I don't want to say 'overplaying' necessarily though some nights that was indeed the case...). Hell, some of those 1980 shows, JB's drumming is almost...boring (for lack of a better term), though some nights (Bremen and Brussels immediately come to mind) he was definitely having fun up on that stage. Again, as I've stated in other 1980 discussions John Paul Jones is the glue holding the band together more than ever. Nowhere else in Led Zeppelin's career were their individual states of mind at the time on such display as on the European tour in 1980. That seems almost painfully obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juxtiphi Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 I'd be inclined to say that, generally speaking, the whole band exhibited more restraint on the '80 tour as part of Page's "Cut The Waffle" philosophy. The extended versions of some of the songs at the final show in Berlin aside, the band never really cuts loose and lets it all hang out at all on that tour. Behind the scenes we know there was a fair bit of tension -especially as far as Plant was concerned- and I think that sort of reflected in the performances. Nobody wanted to step on anybody's toes, I don't think. That's why, for me, a lot of the 1980 performances are pretty interchangable; not to say they all sound the same, but they are pretty rote compared to other tours. I think, starting with the the 1979 shows, a bit of 'slick professionalism' was starting to creep in; gone were the days of massive improvisations and jamming onstage- they were more focused on the songs themselves. But yer both right, Bonham's playing in 1980 certainly was worlds apart from some of the monster drumming he provided in 1977 (I don't want to say 'overplaying' necessarily though some nights that was indeed the case...). Hell, some of those 1980 shows, JB's drumming is almost...boring (for lack of a better term), though some nights (Bremen and Brussels immediately come to mind) he was definitely having fun up on that stage. Again, as I've stated in other 1980 discussions John Paul Jones is the glue holding the band together more than ever. Nowhere else in Led Zeppelin's career were their individual states of mind at the time on such display as on the European tour in 1980. That seems almost painfully obvious. Thats what you get when you pigeon hole a band that was meant to breath and expand on stage. The times were changing and Zep tried to change with them to their own detriment. In the 80's people didn't want hear a 30 minute workout. It almost seems that people no longer care if the band was actually talented enough to really put on show and all they wanted to hear was what was on the album or they poo pooed it. I think the 80 tour was so tame because they wanted to please what they thought the market wanted and it didn't work for them. Gone were the individual personalities in favor of a more every day look which stripped the band of a lot of its mystique. I think they could still belt it out but they were also older and you must admit the 13 or 14 years that they existed as band was more like 36 years when applied to how they experienced it, Robert was referring to WTLB as another old one in 1975 so to them 4 years felt like ten. Think about it 6 years isn't that long now a days but back in the 70's time seemed to go much slower for those who lived it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Thats what you get when you pigeon hole a band that was meant to breath and expand on stage. The times were changing and Zep tried to change with them to their own detriment. In the 80's people didn't want hear a 30 minute workout. It almost seems that people no longer care if the band was actually talented enough to really put on show and all they wanted to hear was what was on the album or they poo pooed it. I think the 80 tour was so tame because they wanted to please what they thought the market wanted and it didn't work for them. Gone were the individual personalities in favor of a more every day look which stripped the band of a lot of its mystique. I think they could still belt it out but they were also older and you must admit the 13 or 14 years that they existed as band was more like 36 years when applied to how they experienced it, Robert was referring to WTLB as another old one in 1975 so to them 4 years felt like ten. Think about it 6 years isn't that long now a days but back in the 70's time seemed to go much slower for those who lived it. Pretty much nailed it...no question about it, the times were a changin' and Zeppelin had no choice but to rethink their whole approach to live performance at that point. Too bad they really weren't up to the task...in spite of their massive popularity, had they stayed together I don't think the 80's would have been too kind to Led Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ListenToThis Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 I am perhaps in the minority in that I find the '80 Europe tour to be on the whole both exciting and fresh. There are of course some borderline painful moments but the band members themselves (particularly Plant and Page) wanted to trim the fat and produce a more streamlined show, both for what they deemed the current market demanded but also because they felt it was needed within for the group to continue. I am confident and agree that the 80's would not have been kind to the band, particularly if Bonham was not able to relieve his dependence on alcohol and Page his need for substances. Plant would have experimented on his own by '83 or so and without a marked improvement from other members it likely would have been hard to pull him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juxtiphi Posted October 6, 2014 Share Posted October 6, 2014 Had John not died,I think a successful American tour with less partying would have went a long way in bolstering the idea of continuing the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyLedZeppelin Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The past couple of weeks I've been listening to the 8 shows I have from this tour along with reading Feather In The Wind-Tour Over Europe. Give this tour a chance if you haven't. You'll be surprised. I've put together a best of compilation: Train Kept A Rollin' 7/7 Berlin Nobody's Fault But Mine 6/30 Frankfurt Black Dog 6/23 Bremen In The Evening 6/20 Brussels Rain Song 6/29 Zurich Hot Dog 6/29 Zurich All My Love 6/29 Zurich Trampled Underfoot 6/18 Cologne Since I've Been Loving You 6/20 Brussels Achilles Last Stand 6/30 Frankfurt Kashmir 6/30 Frankfurt Stairway To Heaven 6/24 Hanover Rock & Roll 6/29 Zurich Communication Breakdown 6/24 Hanover Whole Lotta Love 6/30 Frankfurt Heartbreaker 6/29 Zurich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 The past couple of weeks I've been listening to the 8 shows I have from this tour along with reading Feather In The Wind-Tour Over Europe. Give this tour a chance if you haven't. You'll be surprised. I've put together a best of compilation: I need to find that Feather In The Wind book. Dave (or somebody) should do a book on the '77 tour. For good 1980 compilations, see also: http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/19312-led-zeppelin-over-europe-1980/ Also I'd like to give a shout out for the Berlin '80 audience recording. I cranked that puppy up the other day and it's awesome, a completely different perspective than the soundboard tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I need to find that Feather In The Wind book. Dave (or somebody) should do a book on the '77 tour. For good 1980 compilations, see also:http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/19312-led-zeppelin-over-europe-1980/ Also I'd like to give a shout out for the Berlin '80 audience recording. I cranked that puppy up the other day and it's awesome, a completely different perspective than the soundboard tape.I need to find that Feather In The Wind book. Dave (or somebody) should do a book on the '77 tour. For good 1980 compilations, see also:http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/19312-led-zeppelin-over-europe-1980/ Also I'd like to give a shout out for the Berlin '80 audience recording. I cranked that puppy up the other day and it's awesome, a completely different perspective than the soundboard tape. That's what I need to seek out - audience 80 shows. Much like '77, I'm sure it gives a completely different perspective of that tour than the sb's do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted January 22, 2015 Share Posted January 22, 2015 The past couple of weeks I've been listening to the 8 shows I have from this tour along with reading Feather In The Wind-Tour Over Europe. Give this tour a chance if you haven't. You'll be surprised. I've put together a best of compilation: Train Kept A Rollin' 7/7 Berlin Nobody's Fault But Mine 6/30 Frankfurt Black Dog 6/23 Bremen In The Evening 6/20 Brussels Rain Song 6/29 Zurich Hot Dog 6/29 Zurich All My Love 6/29 Zurich Trampled Underfoot 6/18 Cologne Since I've Been Loving You 6/20 Brussels Achilles Last Stand 6/30 Frankfurt Kashmir 6/30 Frankfurt Stairway To Heaven 6/24 Hanover Rock & Roll 6/29 Zurich Communication Breakdown 6/24 Hanover Whole Lotta Love 6/30 Frankfurt Heartbreaker 6/29 Zurich Excellent playlist worthy of compulsive listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyLedZeppelin Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Excellent playlist worthy of compulsive listening. Much thanks!!!! I really like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Excellent playlist worthy of compulsive listening. Lots of Zurich and Frankfurt on there...I suppose it'd be a consensus that those are the best 1980 performances, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Some of the frustration with Tour Over Europe is that none of the shows stand out in their entirety as knockout performances. This playlist ties some great moments together for a nice listen. My favorite moments are sprinkled throughout the tour, but my go-to shows have become Cologne and Hannover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stairway is NOT stolen Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 The past couple of weeks I've been listening to the 8 shows I have from this tour along with reading Feather In The Wind-Tour Over Europe. Give this tour a chance if you haven't. You'll be surprised. I've put together a best of compilation: Train Kept A Rollin' 7/7 Berlin Nobody's Fault But Mine 6/30 Frankfurt Black Dog 6/23 Bremen In The Evening 6/20 Brussels Rain Song 6/29 Zurich Hot Dog 6/29 Zurich All My Love 6/29 Zurich Trampled Underfoot 6/18 Cologne Since I've Been Loving You 6/20 Brussels Achilles Last Stand 6/30 Frankfurt Kashmir 6/30 Frankfurt Stairway To Heaven 6/24 Hanover Rock & Roll 6/29 Zurich Communication Breakdown 6/24 Hanover Whole Lotta Love 6/30 Frankfurt Heartbreaker 6/29 Zurich Personally, I prefer the Achilles from 5/7 Munich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raytuned Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 I have the Frankfurt show on vinyl, the Zurich show on cassette,(recorded off a radio broadcast) and of course Berlin show.on a CD.It is said that prior to the start of stairway @ the Berlin that one of the amps went down and as the roadies tried to get it back up ,Jimmy indulged in a joint right onstage.which many believe is the reason the solo turned into a self -indulgent guitar clinic.who cares I really like that version, a lot of " call and response"!!. ....( guitarist will get this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Some of the frustration with Tour Over Europe is that none of the shows stand out in their entirety as knockout performances. This playlist ties some great moments together for a nice listen. My favorite moments are sprinkled throughout the tour, but my go-to shows have become Cologne and Hannover. Hannover, really? IMO that's a terrible performance- not necessarily from a musical perspective, but Plant's "Fuckin' horrible place!" attitude more or less taints the entire gig for me. His contempt is obvious. I have the Frankfurt show on vinyl, the Zurich show on cassette,(recorded off a radio broadcast) and of course Berlin show.on a CD.It is said that prior to the start of stairway @ the Berlin that one of the amps went down and as the roadies tried to get it back up ,Jimmy indulged in a joint right onstage.which many believe is the reason the solo turned into a self -indulgent guitar clinic.who cares I really like that version, a lot of " call and response"!!. ....( guitarist will get this) That would explain a lot...still, as technically inrept as parts of that long "Stairway" solo are, I've always heard a passion in Page's playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted January 23, 2015 Share Posted January 23, 2015 Hannover, really? IMO that's a terrible performance- not necessarily from a musical perspective, but Plant's "Fuckin' horrible place!" attitude more or less taints the entire gig for me. His contempt is obvious. That would explain a lot...still, as technically inrept as parts of that long "Stairway" solo are, I've always heard a passion in Page's playing. Contempt for the audience and/or the city? I think he's just disgusted with the acoustics of the venue. Otherwise he's business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Contempt for the audience and/or the city? I think he's just disgusted with the acoustics of the venue. Otherwise he's business as usual. Contempt for the whole idea of the tour in general. Plant really didn't want to be there at all in 1980 and IMO his apathy comes shining through in Hannover. His "Fuckin' horrible place" comment is a reaction to the venue and audience but to make such a comment onstage -for all the punters to hear- borders on unprofessional (again, IMO). And it personifies Robert's whole "I'd rather be at home right now" attitude towards the tour. He made it seem like the tour was a chore, like something he felt forced into doing, not something he wanted to do. Factor in that Bonham felt the same way (to a lesser degree) -resulting in some of the most 'boring', workmanlike performances he would ever give- with Page out of it on drugs leaving John Paul Jones carrying the weight of the performances...I reckon Hannover was sort of the turning point for the tour, as the gigs did improve after that. Ask yourself: would the Robert Plant of, say, 1973, made such a remark as "Fuckin' horrible place!" at a gig? That's the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 Contempt for the whole idea of the tour in general. Plant really didn't want to be there at all in 1980 and IMO his apathy comes shining through in Hannover. His "Fuckin' horrible place" comment is a reaction to the venue and audience but to make such a comment onstage -for all the punters to hear- borders on unprofessional (again, IMO). And it personifies Robert's whole "I'd rather be at home right now" attitude towards the tour. He made it seem like the tour was a chore, like something he felt forced into doing, not something he wanted to do. Factor in that Bonham felt the same way (to a lesser degree) -resulting in some of the most 'boring', workmanlike performances he would ever give- with Page out of it on drugs leaving John Paul Jones carrying the weight of the performances...I reckon Hannover was sort of the turning point for the tour, as the gigs did improve after that. Ask yourself: would the Robert Plant of, say, 1973, made such a remark as "Fuckin' horrible place!" at a gig? That's the difference. I've never sensed outright contempt or apathy, but an air of ambivalence does seem to have permeated that tour. Robert seems up for it in cultural epicenters like Munich & Berlin, less so in smaller, less enthralling cities like Hannover and Mannheim. Mind you I have been to all of these places and each definitely has its own charms. I certainly don't want anyone in Hannover or Mannheim to feel slighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I've never sensed outright contempt or apathy, but an air of ambivalence does seem to have permeated that tour. Robert seems up for it in cultural epicenters like Munich & Berlin, less so in smaller, less enthralling cities like Hannover and Mannheim. Mind you I have been to all of these places and each definitely has its own charms. I certainly don't want anyone in Hannover or Mannheim to feel slighted. Ambivalence is as good a word as any. Again, the band some nights just seems hesitant to let 'er rip and give their all. Their hearts weren't always in it. Another way of looking at it is the band tended to feed off the energy of their audience (unless the crowd was really rowdy, of course, then it just threw the group off their game) and on nights where the audience seemed to be dozing ("This one's not guaranteed to wake you any more than you are now..." -Robert Plant, Rotterdam 1980) it resulted in more lackluster performances. I believe Jimmy Page compared the audience in Munich to an American audience and claimed that was part of the reason why that show stood out for him. Apparently a lotta U.S. Servicemen based in Europe caught those shows, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ListenToThis Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think Plant does show a lack of enthusiasm at the Mannheim gigs - he flubs the lyrics at times, most notably in Kashmir, and on the evening of July 3rd he had a driver take him to Munich resulting in him arriving in the early morning and sleeping in the next day. Jones also left that night, while Bonham came the next day and Page not until the 5th, resulting in the Munich gig beginning late (Zeppelin tried to be better at punctuality in '80 and for the most part did well). Plant is taken aback by the lack of enthusiasm of the crowd in Rotterdam however to my ears the band works hard to convince. Mannheim also features Page at his lowest point from a playing standpoint - I would say Plant did not enjoy those 2 gigs. Outside of that I think he enjoyed the camaraderie of seeing his old mates and working again - he wouldn't have agreed to tour the U.S. if he thought they weren't ready or his heart wasn't in it. Dortmund, Cologne, Brussels, Rotterdam, Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich - these are all good shows and for a band that had just started playing regularly again this is a pretty good percentage of good to average - I'd reason better than April 1977, another time that Zeppelin came off a long break. The band was well rehearsed and were trying hard, old habits just got in the way. I think the prevailing theme regarding the 1980 tour is the listener has to approach it with an open mind - comparisons to the past or thoughts of the near future cloud and diminish the experience. 1980, if you allow it to be, is just another period and time of our favorite band to enjoy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juxtiphi Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 I think Plant does show a lack of enthusiasm at the Mannheim gigs - he flubs the lyrics at times, most notably in Kashmir, and on the evening of July 3rd he had a driver take him to Munich resulting in him arriving in the early morning and sleeping in the next day. Jones also left that night, while Bonham came the next day and Page not until the 5th, resulting in the Munich gig beginning late (Zeppelin tried to be better at punctuality in '80 and for the most part did well). Plant is taken aback by the lack of enthusiasm of the crowd in Rotterdam however to my ears the band works hard to convince. Mannheim also features Page at his lowest point from a playing standpoint - I would say Plant did not enjoy those 2 gigs. Outside of that I think he enjoyed the camaraderie of seeing his old mates and working again - he wouldn't have agreed to tour the U.S. if he thought they weren't ready or his heart wasn't in it. Dortmund, Cologne, Brussels, Rotterdam, Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich - these are all good shows and for a band that had just started playing regularly again this is a pretty good percentage of good to average - I'd reason better than April 1977, another time that Zeppelin came off a long break. The band was well rehearsed and were trying hard, old habits just got in the way. I think the prevailing theme regarding the 1980 tour is the listener has to approach it with an open mind - comparisons to the past or thoughts of the near future cloud and diminish the experience. 1980, if you allow it to be, is just another period and time of our favorite band to enjoy. Nice!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted January 24, 2015 Share Posted January 24, 2015 You lost me when you wanted to start comparing 1973 to 1980. If you're going to bother listening to Tour Over Europe, you have to accept it for what is is. It's another, different chapter of Led Zeppelin. I'll never accuse any of the '80 shows of being perfect, but i still enjoy listening to them. I'll also check out a four car pileup if i pass one on the freeway. (No analogy intended, of course) What's that old saying? One man's glimmer of hope is another man's wet book of matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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