journeytoroom101 Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Greetings. I may be making an incredibly poor forum faux pas by choosing this as my first post but here we go and mea culpa if I have. I'm extremely interested in the forum members assessment and general opinions of the European Tour in 1980. Dave Lewis' book, 'Feather in the Wind' was a very insightful glimpse into the times, places and people while it was happening as well his retrospective some thirty years on - It certainly blew the cobwebs and false memories I had of it (that's a good thing!). My impression, however, largely is one of a band collectively and blindly kicking their paddle boards to find some sort of terraferma - never quite reaching it. I find it interesting that, thus far, the tour has had zero representation in terms of the band's various multimedia releases. Mr. Plant has been pretty blunt and dismissive of it, Mr. Jones cautiously optimistic and Mr. Page strangely mute. Thanks, Gordon C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dark Lord Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 Greetings. I may be making an incredibly poor forum faux pas by choosing this as my first post but here we go and mea culpa if I have. I'm extremely interested in the forum members assessment and general opinions of the European Tour in 1980. Dave Lewis' book, 'Feather in the Wind' was a very insightful glimpse into the times, places and people while it was happening as well his retrospective some thirty years on - It certainly blew the cobwebs and false memories I had of it (that's a good thing!). My impression, however, largely is one of a band collectively and blindly kicking their paddle boards to find some sort of terraferma - never quite reaching it. I find it interesting that, thus far, the tour has had zero representation in terms of the band's various multimedia releases. Mr. Plant has been pretty blunt and dismissive of it, Mr. Jones cautiously optimistic and Mr. Page strangely mute. Thanks, Gordon C. Welcome Gordon. You wil get the full spectrum of opinion here, and there will be no right or wrong. My personal belief is that the Zeppelin machine was on a collision course with destiny, and barely holding together. That was all manifested in the performances, which had moments of brilliance, but also had an under current of desperation. It's hard to be upbeat about those days, knowing what lay so closely ahead for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef free Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 On the plus side: The shortened set was a good idea, no more drum solo, noise solo, marathon No Quarter, half hour Dazed, etc. Plant's voice was really good. New material However: Page was a junkie and it was really starting to show! Bonham's personal demons were getting the best of him. The 70's were over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlyZeppelinaren Posted June 22, 2014 Share Posted June 22, 2014 On the plus side: The shortened set was a good idea, no more drum solo, noise solo, marathon No Quarter, half hour Dazed, etc. Plant's voice was really good. New material However: Page was a junkie and it was really starting to show! Bonham's personal demons were getting the best of him. The 70's were over. Agree completely, Plant was really good, different but consistent, All My Love and In the Evening were kickass additions (I personally like having hot dog too even though I'm pretty much alone with that) There was so much promise for that tour, the one MAJOR thing that detracts from it is without a doubt Page, he is the most inconsistent he ever was, sometimes great but mostly below average(Zurich and Frankfurt being a exception) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
journeytoroom101 Posted June 22, 2014 Author Share Posted June 22, 2014 Some really goods points on the musical health of the band - Mr. Page's efforts were unitentionally 'challenging' for the listener and (to my ears) Mr. Bonham sounds, well, 'bored'. The Dark Lord's (great forum name ) point is intriguing and one I wonder about in so much we have the benefit of hindsight and the wider timeline context of things. It is a bit over the top on my part but I've often felt that if Zep broke up before 9/80 and they never got back together - BUT Mr. Bonham was still alive, I'd be a happy camper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeppMan93 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I've seen a lot of people say on this forum that if they had continued that Jimmy Page would have been the one dead due to his drug use, but exempting that notion I think the tour was a gate for them into the 1980s. Yeah the guitar playing wasn't that great, and as chef free said, they got rid of the long guitar/drum solos and stuck to short-ish songs. In several of the bootlegs I've heard, Page was getting on the mic which he did not do before. The atmosphere to me from the bootlegs seemed to be okay. They could be better, but overall I think it was a middle point. That being said, they just got off recording In Through the Out Door, then playing those couple of shows in 1979 and then going on a preliminary run of Europe before planning to go to the States, so they were willing to do a hefty tour, so in terms of their morale, I think they were okay. I didn't in my own opinion view the concert as a "wet book of matches" as journeytoroom101 puts it. I wouldn't put it as a glimmer of hope, I would put it as to more of a stepping stone from a small puddle to drier ground. Even on In Through the Out Door the song Carouselambra had some heavy use of keyboards, so maybe for some going along the synthesizer route that many bands undertook in the 80s would be a negative, some would be a positive, but that will never be answered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Dounim Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 At the end of the day, it was a big warm-up tour. When they got cooking, it was hot, but I feel that because it ended up being the end that people make it a bigger deal than what it was. That said, I love the tour and I feel we're lucky to have every show in great quality. And while some official recognition would be nice, I'm satisfied with what we have (although a soundboard of Munich would be heaven). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I pretty much agree with everything posted thus far. I will add that I personally believe the setlist was ill-suited for the times. Good grief, White Summer should have been put out of its misery by '72; the renditions of Train Kept A Rollin' & Black Dog sound forced and dated. Performing more material from Presence should have been the order of the day. Led Zeppelin's journey was always about where they were at any given point in time; on this tour they sound as uncertain and cautious as they were probably feeling inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chillumpuffer Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 At the end of the day, it was a big warm-up tour. When they got cooking, it was hot, but I feel that because it ended up being the end that people make it a bigger deal than what it was. That said, I love the tour and I feel we're lucky to have every show in great quality. And while some official recognition would be nice, I'm satisfied with what we have (although a soundboard of Munich would be heaven). A warm up tour for where? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Dounim Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 A warm up tour for where? America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 A warm up tour for where? I actually don't agree that this was "a warm up tour". In fact, several of the initial dates were postponed to ensure the band was properly rehearsed for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluecongo Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 The more I read about Zeps last days, the less inclined I am to believe the American Tour would've been any kind of significant rebirth. Jimmy was a mess, and Bonzo was a severe alcoholic, drinking pretty much 24/7. It would've been an up and down tour just like 77. The only thing that would've saved the band was an intervention and rehab. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cecil. Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I think from what I have heard of the shows, it was Led Zeppelin dipping their toes into the new decade, the stripped down set and more low key approach. I think I said once , not quite Zeppelin of old, but not quite new Zeppelin, a work in progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badgeholder Still Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 "The 1980 Tour is a dignified epitaph for the Dinosaur" - Luis Rey Yes. That makes a lot of sense. I've always felt that despite the tragedy of Bonham's exit and an upcoming tour, LZ died of natural causes and ended when it should have. Not because they weren't still great, but because they finished what they came to do. The band was afforded the luxury of having time to grow musically, individually and as a group, and matured with each album and tour. Tour Over Europe represents the last leg of the flight. Playing "Train kept a rollin" on both their first and last tours is very poetic, like bookends. They had come full circle. And ending the final show of the final tour with a 20 minute modernized electronic psychedelic jam seems like a fitting way to say farewell. It's interesting that there is so much controversy here about the greatness of ITTOD and Tour Over Europe. I think it's because they represent something a lot of people have a hard time accepting - THE END. Alas, every airship that takes off must one day return to the ground. This airship did not crash, but landed and was then grounded forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 ...The only thing that would've saved the band was an intervention and rehab... Rehab worked for Aerosmith, but I don't think it would have been enough to save Led Zeppelin. IMO, they also needed a change in management and to restructure the business side of the band. I also don't think Robert Plant would have stuck around much longer even with a clean and sober Page and Bonham and a management change. He had expressed interest in making a solo album as early as 1973 and he wanted to the freedom to chose the music, musicians and producer. IMO, all four men wanted and needed a break from one another by 1980. However, I do think that if Bonham hadn't died, he and JPJ might have worked together again at some point. They made a great rhythm section and they didn't have the communication problems that plagued Plant and Page's working relationship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlyZeppelinaren Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 This has gone slightly off topic and I'm not gonna help haha The way Zeppelin ended was obviously tragic, a great person and one, if not the best drummers passed, but honestly looking back at it I'm kinda happy the didn't linger on for too long, I wouldn't have wanted Zeppelin to become like the who, going on and on and on and on. They ended, maybe not at their absolute peak but the flame didn't sizzle out. Like Badgeholder said, the 1980 tour of europe is quite a fitting end to it all, low key, relaxed, tight but loose and all that and that's exactly what I want it to be P.S Fuck white summer though, just no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ListenToThis Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Its true that my favorite tour, Over Europe 1980, does garner a great deal of attention for being the last days of Zeppelin as a working unit. The tour is often cast aside by casual fans and even some intermediates, but it certainly warrants the full introspection of every fan in my opinion. Its true that Jimmy is captured at the most inconsistent time of his Zeppelin career, but in addition to Zurich and Frankfurt he also has good nights in Vienna, Hannover, Brussels and Rotterdam. The problem is that unless people have a genuine interest in the '80 tour they never listen to anything but Zurich, Frankfurt, Berlin and sometimes Munich. Berlin to me actually represents Page's worst playing of the entire series as he seemingly struggles to come up with consistent and fluent leads. In fact I believe his poor performance may be the reason Achilles was not featured and WLL does not have the Boogie Chillin' section (which requires some fast and fluent playing) - also the version of TUF, while arguably epic, seems to find him at a loss for ideas. *** And I must point out, selfishly I suppose but this is a pet peeve of mine - the rhythm section does not leave Jimmy playing by himself during the second guitar solo in TUF in Hannover. A simple listen to the audience tape reveals that the bass and drums DOES INDEED lower in the mix temporarily for some reason but does not disappear. The soundboard does make it appear that Bonzo and Jonesy just stopped playing but that would be crazy in actuality, they never would do this. But people love to bash on Jimmy and often cite the same old tired rhetoric - "Jimmy was so out of it the band didn't know what to do and just stopped playing in Hannover, blah blah blah". Its crap. End rant. *** I almost always agree with Steve but in this case I do believe it was a warm up tour, at least in the minds of Jimmy and Grant, to get the band back in shape for the American return. But Jimmy and Grant also knew it had to go well if Plant was going to continue thus necessitating the need for further rehearsals prior to the start of the European trek. Every show has moments of brilliance mixed in with moments of routine, but that's true of almost every period in their career. The tour is truly marred by Bonham's collapse in Nuremberg (the culmination of consecutive days of excessive drinking that begin in Amsterdam on June 22) and Jimmy's sporadic efforts. Bonham however recovers and plays well at all the remaining shows (beginning with Zurich) including the Mannheim gigs which are thought to be subpar from the band on the whole. Surprising to some is that good to excellent audience recordings exist for almost every concert, but most take the path of least resistence to the soundboards. Unless you are hearing the Winston remasters the boards certainly do the shows no favors. The audience recordings reveal a hungry band with equally hungry audiences. The group is discovering themselves again and it appears they are having fun doing it. They had cut back the entourage and the craziness behind the scenes. The music became the focus again and despite the drug habits of one or two members there was an emphasis on coming out with determination and getting it right night after night. I opine that after the Spring 1981 American tour there would have been one more album and likely a subsequent tour of the US and/or Europe and England. Then things would have fractured and Plant would have gone out on his own with the others likely settling down to living personal somewhat quiet lives. Who knows if they would have reconvened at times in the future... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlyZeppelinaren Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Its true that my favorite tour, Over Europe 1980, does garner a great deal of attention for being the last days of Zeppelin as a working unit. The tour is often cast aside by casual fans and even some intermediates, but it certainly warrants the full introspection of every fan in my opinion. Its true that Jimmy is captured at the most inconsistent time of his Zeppelin career, but in addition to Zurich and Frankfurt he also has good nights in Vienna, Hannover, Brussels and Rotterdam. The problem is that unless people have a genuine interest in the '80 tour they never listen to anything but Zurich, Frankfurt, Berlin and sometimes Munich. Berlin to me actually represents Page's worst playing of the entire series as he seemingly struggles to come up with consistent and fluent leads. In fact I believe his poor performance may be the reason Achilles was not featured and WLL does not have the Boogie Chillin' section (which requires some fast and fluent playing) - also the version of TUF, while arguably epic, seems to find him at a loss for ideas. *** And I must point out, selfishly I suppose but this is a pet peeve of mine - the rhythm section does not leave Jimmy playing by himself during the second guitar solo in TUF in Hannover. A simple listen to the audience tape reveals that the bass and drums DOES INDEED lower in the mix temporarily for some reason but does not disappear. The soundboard does make it appear that Bonzo and Jonesy just stopped playing but that would be crazy in actuality, they never would do this. But people love to bash on Jimmy and often cite the same old tired rhetoric - "Jimmy was so out of it the band didn't know what to do and just stopped playing in Hannover, blah blah blah". Its crap. End rant. *** I almost always agree with Steve but in this case I do believe it was a warm up tour, at least in the minds of Jimmy and Grant, to get the band back in shape for the American return. But Jimmy and Grant also knew it had to go well if Plant was going to continue thus necessitating the need for further rehearsals prior to the start of the European trek. Every show has moments of brilliance mixed in with moments of routine, but that's true of almost every period in their career. The tour is truly marred by Bonham's collapse in Nuremberg (the culmination of consecutive days of excessive drinking that begin in Amsterdam on June 22) and Jimmy's sporadic efforts. Bonham however recovers and plays well at all the remaining shows (beginning with Zurich) including the Mannheim gigs which are thought to be subpar from the band on the whole. Surprising to some is that good to excellent audience recordings exist for almost every concert, but most take the path of least resistence to the soundboards. Unless you are hearing the Winston remasters the boards certainly do the shows no favors. The audience recordings reveal a hungry band with equally hungry audiences. The group is discovering themselves again and it appears they are having fun doing it. They had cut back the entourage and the craziness behind the scenes. The music became the focus again and despite the drug habits of one or two members there was an emphasis on coming out with determination and getting it right night after night. I opine that after the Spring 1981 American tour there would have been one more album and likely a subsequent tour of the US and/or Europe and England. Then things would have fractured and Plant would have gone out on his own with the others likely settling down to living personal somewhat quiet lives. Who knows if they would have reconvened at times in the future... I like your entusiasm! That's what's great about this forum, people have different opinions. If you had to pick a top 3 audience recordings from the tour which would it be? I've listened to the soundboards mostly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melcórë Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 It was an optimistic tour, and there are moments of musical majesty -- but they weren't as many (or as often) as in the past, due to the personal and health issues that were plaguing the band at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juxtiphi Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 At the end of the day, it was a big warm-up tour. When they got cooking, it was hot, but I feel that because it ended up being the end that people make it a bigger deal than what it was. That said, I love the tour and I feel we're lucky to have every show in great quality. And while some official recognition would be nice, I'm satisfied with what we have (although a soundboard of Munich would be heaven). I think I Wuv you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 Berlin to me actually represents Page's worst playing of the entire series as he seemingly struggles to come up with consistent and fluent leads. *** I almost always agree with Steve but in this case I do believe it was a warm up tour, at least in the minds of Jimmy and Grant, to get the band back in shape for the American return. In Berlin at the hotel afterward Jimmy himself expressed disappointment in his performance that night. With regard to the European tour being a warm up, I'd like to point out there was no US tour confirmed at the time. It was only after they returned to England from Europe that Robert turned to Peter on the tarmac and said (slightly paraphrased) "Alright G, I'll do it (a US tour) but for no more than a month". Hence, when the US tour dates were ultimately announced they only ran for precisely one month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 I think I Wuv you Steady now. I'm still convinced "Sue" is actually the infamous Joel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jabe Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 ^ A boy named Sue? Pardon the off topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue Dounim Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 What Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlyZeppelinaren Posted June 26, 2014 Share Posted June 26, 2014 What Johnny Cash I think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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