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Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones


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No, as Sam said, and so far as I know although they are friends the two have never jammed together publicly (if not privately as well). Eddie has said he was inspired to create some of his techniques after watching Jimmy perform the solo for 'Heartbreaker' at The Forum in Inglewood "in '71 or '72"...which I subsequently confirmed as '72. So even as a teenager and prior to the formation of Van Halen Eddie was well aware of Led Zeppelin. However, his earliest known meeting with any of them was a brief encounter with Bonzo at the Rainbow circa '75'-77. If you search this thread for "Van Halen" you'll see the many posts that were made concerning that as well as some of Eddie's meetings with Jimmy in the early 90s.

Thanks.
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Plant didn't receive any songwriting credit on Led Zeppelin I because he was still under contract to CBS Records.

Huh. I dont know why i hadnt heard of that before.

In an interview with Brad Tolinski, I think I remember Page saying that he was hoping that "Robert would write some lyrics for the second album" or something like that. This would mean that Plant had minimal lyrical Input for the first album.

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I am sorry if this doesn't belong here, but I just wanted to ask if anyone knows which Zeppelin lyrics were written by Jimmy? And were the lyrics for Tangerine written by Keith Relf and Dazed and Confused by Robert? Thanks

Rest assured you've come to the right thread.

Tangerine has its origins in a previously unreleased Yardbirds song entitled "Knowing That I'm Losing You".

"My brother plucked that session man (Page) out of obscurity and gave him a job and that's how he repaid him?" Jane Relf (Keith Relf's sister) mused. "My brother was not well-off at the end of his life and the royalties for that song could have helped out considerably.

I must step out the door now but will return with more!

Edited by SteveAJones
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I am sorry if this doesn't belong here, but I just wanted to ask if anyone knows which Zeppelin lyrics were written by Jimmy? And were the lyrics for Tangerine written by Keith Relf and Dazed and Confused by Robert? Thanks

I'm back.

Dazed and Confused has it's origins in a Jake Holmes song entitled "I'm Confused" that Jimmy Page performed (but never recorded for release) with The Yardbirds with modified lyrics by Keith Relf.

Led Zeppelin's version was not credited to Jake Holmes. While Holmes took no action at the time, he did later contact Page in regards to the matter. Holmes finally filed a lawsuit in 2010, alleging copyright infringement and naming the Led Zep guitarist as a co-defendant. It was the favorable judgment for organist Matthew Fisher in the "A Whiter Shade of Pale" case that convinced Holmes to sue, as precedent was set that songwriting credits could be challenged in British courts many years after the fact. Unfortunately for Holmes, his case was dismissed on January 17, 2012.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsjo92lJ9vg

Jimmy has cited Led Zeppelin's 'Thank You' as being the first song Robert wrote all the lyrics for, and it's generally accepted that for all intents and purposes Robert effectively became the band's lyricist from then onward.

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So, one last question, are you saying that Jimmy played bass on an alternate version of "Heart of Stone"? Is this the only song that Jimmy played on that would eventually be released as the Rolling Stones Metamorphosis? Thanks!

From 1963 to 1966, Andrew Oldham (the Rolling Stones' manager/producer) hired various session men to make demo recordings of several Jagger/Richards songs that had been rejected by the Stones. Oldham then got Mick Jagger to add a "guide vocal" to each demo, and then took the demos to other artists in hopes of getting them to release their own versions of the songs. (Some of the songs were later re-recorded and released by the Stones themselves.)

Some of the original demos were later included on the Metamorphosis album, in 1975.

Following is a list of Andrew Oldham demos which may have featured Jimmy on guitar:

Heart Of Stone - Keith Richards has confirmed that Page played on the demo version on Metamorphosis.

Some Things Just Stick In Your Mind - Jimmy is believed to have played on one version of this song, but the version on Metamorphosis may not include him.

(When) Blue Turns To Grey - a couple Rolling Stones biographies credit Page and Jones with playing on the demo.

(Walkin' Thru The) Sleepy City - possibly with Page.

We're Wastin' Time - possibly with Page.

Each And Every Day Of The Year - possibly with Page.

Try A Little Harder - Jimmy may have played on one version, but possibly not the version on Metamorphosis.

So Much In Love - Jimmy may have played on one version of this song.

Out Of Time - Jimmy has confirmed that he played on the demo version on Metamorphosis.

Edited by swandown
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My brother plucked that session man (Page) out of obscurity and gave him a job and that's how he repaid him?" Jane Relf (Keith Relf's sister) mused. "My brother was not well-off at the end of his life and the royalties for that song could have helped out considerably.

Jane Relf has never provided any evidence that Keith Relf wrote any part of "Knowing That I'm Losing You". Keith never copyrighted the song, never made an attempt to collect royalties on "Tangerine", and even distanced himself from the song when asked in an interview.

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...were the lyrics for...Dazed and Confused (written) by Robert? Thanks

The excerpt below is from an interview published in the November 1990 issue of Musician magazine, titled 'In Through The Out Door Jimmy Page goes back to Led Zeppelin' and written by Matt Resnicoff:

Musician: I understand "Dazed & Confused" was originally a song by Jake Holmes. Is that true?

Page: [sourly] I don't know. I don't know. [inhaling] I don't know about all that.

Musician: Do you remember the process of writing that song?

Page: Well, I did that with the Yardbirds originally... The Yardbirds were such a good band for a guitarist to play in that I came up with a lot of riffs and ideas out of that, and I employed quite a lot of those in the early Zeppelin stuff.

Musician: But Jake Holmes, a successful jingle writer in New York, claims on his 1967 record that he wrote the original song.

Page: Hmm. Well, I don't know. I don't know about that. I'd rather not get into it because I don't know all the circumstances. What's he got, The riff or whatever? Because Robert wrote some of the lyrics for that on the album. But he was only listening to... we extended it from the one that we were playing with the Yardbirds.

Musician: Did you bring it into the Yardbirds?

Page: No, I think we played it 'round a sort of melody line or something that Keith [Relf] had. So I don't know. I haven't heard Jake Holmes so I don't know what it's all about anyway. Usually my riffs are pretty damn original. [laughs] What can I say?

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Jane Relf has never provided any evidence that Keith Relf wrote any part of "Knowing That I'm Losing You". Keith never copyrighted the song, never made an attempt to collect royalties on "Tangerine", and even distanced himself from the song when asked in an interview.

"He [Keith Relf] should really be given a credit for that one," Jim McCarty has said, referring specifically to the second verse's lyrics in "Knowing That I'm Losing You," which appear intact as the first verse in "Tangerine."

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"He [Keith Relf] should really be given a credit for that one," Jim McCarty has said, referring specifically to the second verse's lyrics in "Knowing That I'm Losing You," which appear intact as the first verse in "Tangerine."

I would be inclined to believe McCarty if Relf hadn't been completely silent on the subject from 1970 until his death. Relf had several years to speak up, but chose not to.

(I do think it's possible that Relf wrote some of those lyrics. But without any evidence, I don't think it's fair to lump this song along with "Dazed And Confused" and other songs that had been previously copyrighted by other writers.)

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Steve, whom does "Listen To This, Eddie" refer to? Eddie Kramer or Van Halen?

There's a good thread about that here: http://forums.ledzeppelin.com/index.php?/topic/9691-who-is-eddie/

I'm of the opinion Plant's stage comments and the title refer to Eddie Kramer, not Eddie

Van Halen. EVH was a young gun on the L.A. rock scene, and he did make a few boasts

on his way up, but he also attended one of their L.A. shows in '72 and was blown away

and approached John Bonham in a club on the Sunset Strip circa '74 to compliment him.

Mike Millard's L.A. '77 audience recordings are among the finest Led Zeppelin bootlegs ever recorded and a blatant comparison to Eddie Kramer's work seems obvious to me.

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By the way, how may tickets were sold for Knebworth in 1979? Mick Wall estimates the attendance at 104K for the first show and 40K for the second show. A quote from When Giants Waled the Earth:

"'Then afterwards he [Grant] just sat outside the house in this big black car with tinted windows. It was very upsetting.' (Freddy Bannister speaking) Accompanied by 'a rather seedy-looking Englishman introduced to me as a former Metropolitan Police superintendent,' the pair claimed to have aerial photographs of the first show that had been analysed by NASA scientists, 'proving that there were a quarter of a million people there.'"

I laughed a lot when I read this.

Edited by Geezer
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Excluded. The area of the Knebworth site was 36.4 acres, which could only hold up to 145K people.

"Excluded"??? I'm not bothered if you have "excluded" what I say here - I was there, I lived through it.

Like I said, this has long been a bone of contention, and 250,000 isn't a figure I just came up with off the top of my head.

Ask NASA.

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Knebby, it's very good that you attended the show, but I don't think you could've accurately measured the number of people by just being in the crowd. We know the exact acreage of the area, and anyone who's into that type of things will confirm that 37 acres cannot hold more than 150K people.

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Ask NASA.

You made me laugh even more. No one from NASA has actually looked at any photo of Knebworth Festival. It's just something that Grant concocted as a pretext to cajole Bannister into adding the second show. G surely knew how to make money. Edited by Geezer
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