The Next President of the USA will be?

[wanna be drummer]

Well not that we're all done whining about bullies, I think we may resume politics?

I think Sarah Palin could possibly balance out the ticket perfectly. But Romney has wayy more economic expertise and could balance McCains self-addmited "I don't much about economics" or whatever comment.

edited to add: thanks for bringing back the thread, seriously, but why didn't you mods just delete specific posts real quick as opposed to trashing the whole thing for a day? PM me possibly?

[marolyn]

Like I stated earlier, his being in command of troops is a lot more relevant than his former POW status.

if that's what you are basing your relevance on...i think you better look into this one...i believe he was in charge of a "training squadron"...those slots are usually allocated to guys that are not the best leaders, but are given as a nod. (and being who he was related to... makes sense) so if that's his claim to "troop command" i would take that with a grain of salt as those in the military know that is a "cake job".

i was more concerned with his graduating at the bottom of his class, but my husband(who graduated at the opposite end of the spectrum from the academy) explained that just the fact that he finished and didn't get kicked out should count for something...so i can live with that.

[Del Zeppnile]

... I just think that in Canada, we need to address the reality before we pass off the responsibility to the private sector

Fair point, plus I think it's important to remember that Canada is not the United States and the United States is not Canada, or Sweden, or Norway.... etc.

A whole different set of circumstances apply, and what may be workable in one place, won't be a fit in another.

Thanks for your response.

[ally]

Fair point, plus I think it's important to remember that Canada is not the United States and the United States is not Canada, or Sweden, or Norway.... etc.

A whole different set of circumstances apply, and what may be workable in one place, won't be a fit in another.

Thanks for your response.

Well that is very true. Countries that already have a public healthcare system are more inclined to be affraid of the private system. I can't honestly say that either is better at delivering care. What I can say is, healthcare needs to be affordable. Neither system works properly if it isn't. I guess it just boils down to how you wish to pay for it

[allthekingshorses]

Baracky II is now on youtube....

[TypeO]

The primary issue has always been with regard to who is benefitting the most from the Bush tax cuts. Bush has been giving huge tax cuts to corporations and the wealthiest Americans while he has offered scant little relief to middle and lower class Americans.

That's bullshit.

I got the tax cuts and I'm not rich.

If a rich person gets a lot refunded it's because they paid a lot MORE than the average person.

And I pray you're not referring to all the "poor below the poverty line" who didn't get rebates.

There's a reason for that.

THEY DIDN'T PAY ANY FUCKIN' TAXES.

A rebate by definition is a refund for overpayment.

How can you be refunded for what you didn't pay for?

And they DO already receive money every month - it's called welfare, WIC, and other programs.

Trickle down economics does not work; it's merely a ploy by rich repubs to further enrich the rich at the expense of the middle class and at the expense of the overall economy. We've seen this republican movie before and it always ends the same way: with record deficits, a hurting middle class, and the rich getting richer.

That's bullshit.

It's widely acknowledged that "trickle down" most certainly does work, it just lends itself to easy ridicule because of the title, but the fundamentals are quite sound.

Reagan's trickle down plan repaired our economy (that another idiot Dem named Carter destroyed) and made it a solid foundation for the prosperity of the Clinton years. The Clinton years could not have happened if the economy had not been rebuilt after Carter mangled it.

Like it or not, or country is based on free-trade and thus is subject to basic principles of economics. One of those principles is that if the wealthy (those who own businesses, provide services, produce goods, etc.) flourish, those who are employed at those places will flourish as businesses expand, production increases, etc. By contrast, if you penalize those who employ all those regular folks, they have less to invest back into their businesses, and growth is stagnated.

The only problem is liberals vilify those who are successful, who have lived the American dream and fulfilled it's promise, as greedy skinflints who keep all the money for themselves. While that may be the case from time to time, it is by far the exception rather than the rule. Most people are wealthy because they worked hard and compensated those who worked for them fairly, spreading the wealth.

But liberals don't have that positive a view of success. They assume all success is a result of greed, manipulation and outright criminal acts.

One might reasonably ask 'what percentage of Americans make more than $250,000?' The answer, according to [url=http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/what_percentage_of_the_us_population_makes.html]FactCheck.org], is a mere 2-3%.

Yet that mere 2-3% already pays 50% of the tax burden.

Again, you want to penalize success, redistribute the wealth.

Obama may not be an actual socialist, but he's trying to lay the foundation and create an environment for socialism to exist.

Surely their sense of national duty and honor will trump their sense of self-centered greed. ..right?

Told ya.

If you're successful, you're greedy.

End of story.

[marolyn]

They assume all success is a result of greed, manipulation and outright criminal acts.

nooo...i just don't like the idea that success is determined by who you happened to be born to...why is cindy mccain considered successful just because she was born into money??...

i think that what most liberals are looking for is equal opportunity for ALL americans to be successful...we just want to share the american dream with everyone...it's paying it forward.

why wouldn't conservatives want all americans to have the same opportunity to be successful???...i don't get it...you hear the phrase..."pick yourself up by your bootstraps"...which really makes a big assumption...you have to have a pair of boots in the first place.

sidenote... you do know that many of the junior enlisted families in the military participate in the WIC program to feed their families...

[cryingbluerain]

nooo...i just don't like the idea that success is determined by who you happened to be born to...

So you don't like the idea of your offspring sharing in the success that you have achieved?

[XerSizNRite]

nooo...i just don't like the idea that success is determined by who you happened to be born to...why is cindy mccain considered successful just because she was born into money??...

i think that what most liberals are looking for is equal opportunity for ALL americans to be successful...we just want to share the american dream with everyone...it's paying it forward.

why wouldn't conservatives want all americans to have the same opportunity to be successful???...i don't get it...you hear the phrase..."pick yourself up by your bootstraps"...which really makes a big assumption...you have to have a pair of boots in the first place.

sidenote... you do know that many of the junior enlisted families in the military participate in the WIC program to feed their families...

Actually what bothers me is all the “Star Power” that seems to be behind Obama.

Since, they are so much better off monetarily that me and the majority of us Americans.

They could never be my next-door neighbors.

Seems to me that Obama’s going to make them that much more richer and myself and many others more poorer.

[wanna be drummer]

So you don't like the idea of your offspring sharing in the success that you have achieved?

Very good point.

Being born into the wealthy or the poor class may both seem unfair the the middle class, but thats just reality for ya..

[I have got a horsey]

That's an easy one. This is still a mostly capitalist country. Hope that helps

Oh Uncle Bill! And I thought that Ronald Reagan record from the 50's about Universal health care being one step away from socialism and communism was a practical joke!! I didn't realise some of you actually actually believed it....WOW

So let me ask you all a question, because I don't know the answer to this:

What happens in the USA if you live in poverty, as over 10% of the US population does, and you don't have any health insurance, and your country has no public hospital/health care system, what happens if you get cancer, for example, and you need a tumour surgically removed, where do you go or what do you do?

[Uncle Bill]

if that's what you are basing your relevance on...i think you better look into this one...i believe he was in charge of a "training squadron"...those slots are usually allocated to guys that are not the best leaders, but are given as a nod. (and being who he was related to... makes sense) so if that's his claim to "troop command" i would take that with a grain of salt as those in the military know that is a "cake job".

I'm surprised and disappointed at you for slagging off a former military officer, to try to make a political point, and acting like military training isn't important. What military were you in?

About McCain's so called "cake job" and how he was viewed as a leader by those who were actually there:

"When John McCain limped home from a Hanoi prison camp in 1973 with a badly injured knee that he could not bend, Navy doctors gave him the bad news: His 15-year career as a jet pilot was over. He would never fly again. But McCain surprised his doctors by making a dramatic comeback. With a ferocious determination to fly again and a tough physical therapy regimen, he got his wings back and not long after was awarded command of the Navy's largest aviation squadron, VA-174, at Cecil Field in Florida."

"A review of Navy records and interviews with more than a dozen of his former colleagues paint a picture of a commander who was lionized by his troops as a war hero and respected by aviators as afair and effective manager. He had rugged good looks and a common touch, and was fiercely loyal to those who worked for him, his former colleagues say."

"But there's no doubt it was a big job. Running the squadron, with its 1,000 personnel and fleet of 75 jets, was like managing a small corporation."

"McCain's confidential military fitness reports, which were released to The Times by his campaign staff, judged him an "exceptional naval officer with an unlimited future" and "unequivocally recommend him for accelerated promotion to captain and major command."

"Loyal to his troops

McCain is recalled as a boss who knew everybody and casually visited with his troops every day. He cut a larger-than-life image on the base, among both men and women.

"All the women thought he was the bomb. He was a good-looking man," recalled Bonita Duncan, an enlistee in the personnel office.

McCain won high marks for loyalty and commitment to his troops."

Audacious Goal

Interviews with a half-dozen former subordinates suggest McCain ran his squadron with a clear goal, a lot of listening and the sheer force of his personality. There were about 750 officers and enlisted men in the squadron — VA-174. Their mission was to train pilots and crews for the A-7 light attack jet. The A-7 was plagued by maintenance problems and parts shortages in that period of postwar downsizing. When McCain took over, nearly one-third of the planes were grounded. And some senior lieutenants said there was no way to change that.

"That, of course, wasn't good enough for McCain," said former flight instructor Carl Smith. "So what McCain did was reassign those people. You could say fired them. But we say reassigned. So it was a case of bringing together new people and new ideas to change the course of the squadron."

"in 1976 he became commanding officer of a training squadron stationed in Florida. He turned around an undistinguished unit and won the squadron its first Meritorious Unit Commendation."

The Meritorious Unit Commendation is a mid-level unit award of the United States military which is awarded to any military command which displays exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding service, heroic deeds, or valorous actions.

source

I'll be waiting for you to post nobamas accomplishments as a leader, and his contemporary's thoughts about them. As near as I can tell the only time he ever "led" anything was project Vote, a democratic party get out the vote campaign connected to, the always in the news for submitting false voter registration cards, ACORN. If there's more I can't find it.

i was more concerned with his graduating at the bottom of his class,

"McCain came into conflict with higher-ranking personnel, he did not always obey the rules, and that contributed to a low class rank (894 of 899) which he did not aim to improve. He did well in academic subjects that interested him, such as literature and history, but studied only enough to pass subjects he disliked, such as math."

Sounds like he was even a bit of maverick back in those days, interesting. Sounds kind of like me in fact. Maybe I was too quick to dismiss him. I guess your husband must have been a goody two shoes, ass kisser eh? Man, I hated that type when I was in.

I don't like McCain and don't plan voting for him, but that doesn't mean I won't the set record straight when I see someone making BS statements to try to make political points.

source

[Uncle Bill]

So let me ask you all a question, because I don't know the answer to this:

What happens in the USA if you live in poverty, as over 10% of the US population does, and you don't have any health insurance, and your country has no public hospital/health care system, what happens if you get cancer, for example, and you need a tumour surgically removed, where do you go or what do you do?

I haven't been able to find a source I can quote that goes for the whole country, but where I live, you would just go to the hospital and have the surgery like anyone else and the cost is written off/ passed on to those who have insurance and insurance company's. There are also "City" and "charity" hospitals that can't turn anyone away, as well as state tax funded programs for the uninsured.

[I have got a horsey]

I haven't been able to find a source I can quote that goes for the whole country, but where I live, you would just go to the hospital and have the surgery like anyone else and the cost is written off/ passed on to those who have insurance and insurance company's. There are also "City" and "charity" hospitals that can't turn anyone away, as well as state tax funded programs for the uninsured.

Right, so it's not like you're left on the street dying then?

[XerSizNRite]

Uncle Bill,

Senator John McCain’s military service and patriotism for our country is one of the main reasons, I will be voting for him come November 4.

With the Soviet Union, I mean Russia, rearing its ugly head again. We need a leader like Senator McCain’s longer political experience, especially concerning foreign policy.

This could get very bad and we need a leader with backbone.

[Uncle Bill]

Right, so it's not like you're left on the street dying then?

Not around here, I can't speak to other areas though. From what I understand the main problem w/ the uninsured is the preventive care aspect, not major surgery. That leads to even higher health care costs for all. I think we spend plenty, in this country, on health care, we just don't spend it wisely enough, I guess. But, I'm no expert on this subject that's for sure.

[I have got a horsey]

With the Soviet Union, I mean Russia, rearing its ugly head again.

Oy vey...Now that Bin Laden's gone quiet, you're bringing the USSR back from the dead?

[Uncle Bill]

It's interesting to note the good cop/ bad cop type routine the Clinton's are doing.

While Hillary gives a glowing speech endorsing nobama, (in which she didn't address the most important of her criticisms of him: that he wasn't ready to lead, btw). Bubba is out undermining him.

Bill Clinton in Denver again undercuts Obama

By Sam Youngman

Posted: 08/26/08 01:47 PM [ET]

DENVER — Bill Clinton appeared to undermine Sen. Barack Obama again Tuesday.

The former president, speaking in Denver, posed a hypothetical question in which he seemed to suggest that that the Democratic Party was making a mistake in choosing Obama as its presidential nominee.

He said: "Suppose for example you're a voter. And you've got candidate X and candidate Y. Candidate X agrees with you on everything, but you don't think that person can deliver on anything. Candidate Y disagrees with you on half the issues, but you believe that on the other half, the candidate will be able to deliver. For whom would you vote?"

Then, perhaps mindful of how his off-the-cuff remarks might be taken, Clinton added after a pause: "This has nothing to do with what's going on now."

The comments are unlikely to be taken as an innocent mistake by those Democrats who continue to be angry with the former president for, they say, not supporting the Illinois senator wholeheartedly, if not implicitly undercutting him.

source

And talk about hubris;

An Ego for the Ages in a Classical Setting

"So Barack is going to give his acceptance speech from a minature version of an ancient Greek temple. And what were those temples normally used for? Worshiping the Gods, naturally.

Such an exceptional ego requires portrayel by the exceptional talent of Tennyson Hayes, who comes through again with an appropriate offering:"

source

[Del Zeppnile]

Well that is very true. Countries that already have a public healthcare system are more inclined to be affraid of the private system. I can't honestly say that either is better at delivering care. What I can say is, healthcare needs to be affordable. Neither system works properly if it isn't. I guess it just boils down to how you wish to pay for it

When you say "healthcare has to be affordable" I wonder what everyone's defininiton of affordable is?. For me and my family, and given what is at stake, healtcare is affordable the same way a new car is affordable. Even at thousands of dollars per year, healthcare needs to be at the top of the list of a person's priorities. I have heard people in the Doctors office actually complain that their co-pay went up from $10 to $15 dollars. Are they fucking serious!

My experience in talking with many people on the affordability issue is that they just seem to feel that healthcare should be as small an out of pocket expense to them as their montly phone bill. That makes no sense. Some of the same people who complain about their cost share, have no problem going out and buying a $3000 HD Television or paying for a family vacation in Hawaii.

If people can afford a car (especially where there are many public transportation options), then they can also afford to pay more for their healthcare. It's all about priorties, and I hate that the Democratic party platform plays down the personal accoutability aspect of healthcare to the point of making it another entitlement.

[wanna be drummer]

When you say "healthcare has to be affordable" I wonder what everyone's defininiton of affordable is?. For me and my family, and given what is at stake, healtcare is affordable the same way a new car is affordable. Even at thousands of dollars per year, healthcare needs to be at the top of the list of a person's priorities. I have heard people in the Doctors office actually complain that their co-pay went up from $10 to $15 dollars. Are they fucking serious!

My experience in talking with many people on the affordability issue is that they just seem to feel that healthcare should be as small an out of pocket expense to them as their montly phone bill. That makes no sense. Some of the same people who complain about their cost share, have no problem going out and buying a $3000 HD Television or paying for a family vacation in Hawaii.

If people can afford a car (especially where there are many public transportation options), then they can also afford to pay more for their healthcare. It's all about priorties, and I hate that the Democratic party platform plays down the personal accoutability aspect of healthcare to the point of making it another entitlement.

Take responsibility for your budget and income?

oh pahleeze Del, why don't you just ask people to save their money or something

...oh

[Medhb]

Greek columns are found throughout Washington, DC, the seat of our federal government, the government that Barack Obama is seeking to be the leader of. Greek columns are a perfectly appropriate backdrop for Obama's nomination acceptance speech.

If any representation of Greek columns in politics is meant to be taken as a reference to "worshipping the Gods", and if any politician or political party using Greek columns as a backdrop is indicative of hubris, then it seems republicans making these claims are guilty of pot calling the kettle black hypocrisy.

[photo courtesy of ThinkProgress.org]

[photo courtesy of BobCesca.com]

Are those Gods speaking before the columns of that ancient Greek temple?

Or merely a triumvirate of mere mortal republicans, including John McCain?

Hi. I'm One Drop.

I support Barack Obama.

Like Led-Zeppelin, he ROCKS!

Welcome aboard One Drop! Great first post!

[Pb Derigable]

Hey one drop

Michelle's speach was lame.

anybody else could of gave that speech.

she provided no insight to Barrack.

Atleast she said she loved this country.

but than again any political thoughts she spoke of will allow some of the oncoming swiftboats to take a detour for her.

She spoke great.

She look great.

Speech was great for what it was, a safe play.

23 million now wonder why they stayed up.

300 million people still wonder who the Obamas are.

Atleast they know how many homes they have and who helped them with that house. Mr. Rezko.

Even if they win, they will still know who got them the second home. Mr. Rezko.

She did give Obama a 2% bump in the gallup.

but lost 2% in the rasmussen.

She broke even.

Have you seen Earthmimi? He has seem to lost his way again.

[Uncle Bill]

If any representation of Greek columns in politics is meant to be taken as a reference to "worshipping the Gods", and if any politician or political party using Greek columns as a backdrop is indicative of hubris, then it seems republicans making these claims are guilty of pot calling the kettle black hypocrisy.

Are those Gods speaking before the columns of that ancient Greek temple?

Or merely a triumvirate of mere mortal republicans, including John McCain?

Hi 1drop , welcome aboard

A column is just a column with out context

Pure hubris.

Yeah, that led zepplin guy is cool.

[Uncle Bill]

Do you think Billy will be able to stay on the reservation tonight?

[Uncle Bill]

It looks McCain is escalating the rhetoric:

Man, the negative ads are almost constant here, at least 3 out of every 4. I can't remember the last positive ad I saw.

from politifact:

"In keeping with the summer theme, it’s fitting that the campaigns are doing a lot of cherry-picking. They find a few facts to support their attacks and pound away. (The McCain theme: Obama is a high-tax, big-government Democrat. The Obama theme: McCain is a carbon-copy of President Bush and a puppet of Big Oil.)

A grain of truth

The cherry-picking explains why we’ve rated so many claims Barely True. There’s a grain of truth behind many of their claims, but they ignore contradictory facts and distort the overall truth.

A few examples:

• Obama’s claim that McCain offers “billions in tax breaks for oil and drug companies, but almost nothing for families like yours.” This one misleads about who would benefit from McCain’s plan to reduce corporate taxes. It would lower taxes on all corporations, not just for those perennial Democratic villains, oil and drug companies. And the ad is wrong that McCain’s plan offers nothing for middle-class families. McCain proposes doubling tax exemptions for dependents (usually children), a significant help for many families. We gave this one a Barely True.

• Obama’s allegation that McCain worries about nuclear waste in Arizona, but not in Nevada. We found the Obama campaign used some creative editing to make its point, relying on a snippet of a McCain comment that he would not want the waste trucked through Phoenix. The ad conveniently left out the rest of his comment, that “I think it can be made safe.” This ad also earned a Barely True.

• McCain’s charge that Obama “promises more taxes on small business, seniors, your life savings, your family.” This one, like several other McCain ads, is based on Obama’s plan to roll back the Bush tax cuts on the upper-income brackets. So yes, it’s accurate if you earn more than $200,000 per year. But the McCain ad is misleading because most people would not have higher taxes under Obama’s plan. Another Barely True.

• McCain’s claim that Obama plans “a tax increase for everyone earning more than $42,000 a year.” That’s based on the same flawed logic as the above item and was so wrong we gave it a False. "