pinky Posted May 1, 2008 Share Posted May 1, 2008 Why does Jimmy's guitar sound so clean (especially Black Dog) I heard Immigrant from Japan as well as Whole Lotta Love and they sound nothing like it so much heavier (more like HTWWW in 72) wich leads me to the conclusion that he either used a different guitar/amp that show or just changed his settings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Soundboard vs Audience recording is probably the biggest difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pinky Posted May 2, 2008 Author Share Posted May 2, 2008 Soundboard vs Audience recording is probably the biggest difference. I dont mean quality I mean the sound that was produced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audacity Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 Why does Jimmy's guitar sound so clean (especially Black Dog) I heard Immigrant from Japan as well as Whole Lotta Love and they sound nothing like it so much heavier (more like HTWWW in 72) wich leads me to the conclusion that he either used a different guitar/amp that show or just changed his settings. I agree with you. Either Jimmy doesn't have his Marshalls cranked or he's using different amps and they're not turned up too loud. I often wondered if he was using a solid state amp, not a tube amp. Of course we're talking about the second disc, the Paris Theatre show, not the 1969 material of disc 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rainsong07 Posted May 2, 2008 Share Posted May 2, 2008 I agree with you. Either Jimmy doesn't have his Marshalls cranked or he's using different amps and they're not turned up too loud. I often wondered if he was using a solid state amp, not a tube amp. Of course we're talking about the second disc, the Paris Theatre show, not the 1969 material of disc 1. Argreed. I have had this on cassette since abou 1990. I have always wondered why it was such a clean sound. Black Dog had the most suspect sound. WIAWSNB might be the best live version I have ever heard. It was great to get the complete show on he BBC discs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiri Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Yes, I was asking myself the same question... I guess it´s a different amp setup or setting (maybe Jimmy thought the room wasn´t suitable for hi-gain and wanted to avoid problems) PLUS a classic SB vs. AUD problem. And yes, I know there might be some audience recordings that prove the opposite but a set of ears can´t be replaced by a microphone or even post-production. So what´s on tape can sound different to what people heard back then. And don´t forget it was the BBC after all, so maybe a keen engineer or somebody else wanted to avoid too much "unwanted" distortion. I have to say, the sound is quite sweet. Maybe not as powerful and thick as the classic Marshall, but bluesy and tasteful. Unlike the ´75 sound which was really way too light for the songs they performed at that time of their career. IMHO that is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Styrbjorn Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Rather a good tone I thought. You should hear it on the Pre-FM Master recording, not the official CD though...very different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Garbage Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 this was a pretty weird show and I think a bad choice for Page to release. when I first heard this show I asked myself what the hell is wrong with them? and why are the sissy fans clapping like they are at a golf game?... this is a perfect example of a clean well behaved Zeppelin doing a show for radio. and performing in front of a not so normal croud full of cridicts and media...this shows in the performance which is not loose at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Garbage Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Yes, I was asking myself the same question... I guess it´s a different amp setup or setting (maybe Jimmy thought the room wasn´t suitable for hi-gain and wanted to avoid problems) PLUS a classic SB vs. AUD problem. And yes, I know there might be some audience recordings that prove the opposite but a set of ears can´t be replaced by a microphone or even post-production. So what´s on tape can sound different to what people heard back then. And don´t forget it was the BBC after all, so maybe a keen engineer or somebody else wanted to avoid too much "unwanted" distortion. I have to say, the sound is quite sweet. Maybe not as powerful and thick as the classic Marshall, but bluesy and tasteful. Unlike the ´75 sound which was really way too light for the songs they performed at that time of their career. IMHO that is... very good post Jiri Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiri Posted May 3, 2008 Share Posted May 3, 2008 Hm... The "Clean Zep vs. Wild Zep" - interesting thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docron Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 this was a pretty weird show and I think a bad choice for Page to release. when I first heard this show I asked myself what the hell is wrong with them? and why are the sissy fans clapping like they are at a golf game?... this is a perfect example of a clean well behaved Zeppelin doing a show for radio. and performing in front of a not so normal croud full of cridicts and media...this shows in the performance which is not loose at all. I couldn't disagree more. Are you really sitting there as a Zeppelin fan saying that the BBC Sessions shouldn't have been released? Are you nuts!? The more live Zeppelin, the better, especially in this sort of quality! You have to look at it as a collection. The first disc features parts of I think 4 different shows from March and June 1969.., while the second disc is from one show on 1971-04-01. If you had the Complete BBC Sessions set, things would make alot more sense... They cut out tons of tracks, multiple band interviews and alot of Plant's interation w/ the crowd between numbers for the official 1997 release, which sort of ruins the flow and makes it seem "wierd". Personally, I think the performance on the second disc is stunning. Plant's voice was arguably the best it ever was/would be. Pages riffs are fat and meaty.., low distortion, sure, but you can't exactly play at 10000 decibles in a television studio. I think it sounds clean, but its still raw and un-tampered with. Hands down the best version of Black Dog ever played. This IMO is mostly due to Bonham working the high-hat/cymbals in double what he normally did, making the song seem less lazy. Stairway, with the shorter no-frills solo seems more energetic and inspired, and Plant's performance on the last verse boggles my mind. I sort of steer away from the official release though because they cut some material out of the Whole Lotta Love medley (and I think Heartbreaker solo too) . I could go on for days about this release, but I'll cut my rant here for readability. Clean Zeppelin? Not totally... I would say Wild Zeppelin, Clean Sound. BBC, after all, is notorious for their sound quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverVishnu Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Personally, I think the performance on the second disc is stunning. Plant's voice was arguably the best it ever was/would be. Pages riffs are fat and meaty.., low distortion, sure, but you can't exactly play at 10000 decibles in a television studio. I actually disagree on this one. While the available performances from early '71 (Irish dates, Copenhagen) are fantastic, the Paris Theatre show sounds tired and pretty boring in comparison. Plant sounds like he's just given up on some of the worse tracks of the night and he seems to sing half-heartedly throughout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar Posted June 27, 2008 Share Posted June 27, 2008 Remember, the initial recording date of the '71 BBC show had to be pushed back a week because Plant had vocal problems. And as for the crowd, who cares? English crowds take in music differently than American ones - they actually LISTENED to what the band was playing in that BBC show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiri Posted June 28, 2008 Share Posted June 28, 2008 It just dawned on me!!!! It must have been the HIWATTs which made everything sound so differently compared to other shows played with the more distorting Marshalls stacks. Jimmy was using them thru a short period at the beginning of the 70ies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Garbage Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 I couldn't disagree more. Are you really sitting there as a Zeppelin fan saying that the BBC Sessions shouldn't have been released? Are you nuts!? The more live Zeppelin, the better, especially in this sort of quality! You have to look at it as a collection. The first disc features parts of I think 4 different shows from March and June 1969.., while the second disc is from one show on 1971-04-01. If you had the Complete BBC Sessions set, things would make alot more sense... They cut out tons of tracks, multiple band interviews and alot of Plant's interation w/ the crowd between numbers for the official 1997 release, which sort of ruins the flow and makes it seem "wierd". Personally, I think the performance on the second disc is stunning. Plant's voice was arguably the best it ever was/would be. Pages riffs are fat and meaty.., low distortion, sure, but you can't exactly play at 10000 decibles in a television studio. I think it sounds clean, but its still raw and un-tampered with. Hands down the best version of Black Dog ever played. This IMO is mostly due to Bonham working the high-hat/cymbals in double what he normally did, making the song seem less lazy. Stairway, with the shorter no-frills solo seems more energetic and inspired, and Plant's performance on the last verse boggles my mind. I sort of steer away from the official release though because they cut some material out of the Whole Lotta Love medley (and I think Heartbreaker solo too) . I could go on for days about this release, but I'll cut my rant here for readability. Clean Zeppelin? Not totally... I would say Wild Zeppelin, Clean Sound. BBC, after all, is notorious for their sound quality. Yes I'm really sitting here as a zeppelin fan saying this...I was 11 when I first heard this show and at the age of 37 I still don't care for it! I can think of about 25 better 71 shows that Page could have used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy page66 Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Yes I'm really sitting here as a zeppelin fan saying this...I was 11 when I first heard this show and at the age of 37 I still don't care for it! I can think of about 25 better 71 shows that Page could have used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickZepp Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 Yes I'm really sitting here as a zeppelin fan saying this...I was 11 when I first heard this show and at the age of 37 I still don't care for it! I can think of about 25 better 71 shows that Page could have used. Better performances? Probably. But better recordings? Not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirigible Posted June 29, 2008 Share Posted June 29, 2008 why are the sissy fans clapping like they are at a golf game? Weren't there only about 100 specially invited guests present? If it was bunch of industry types like DJs and record company suits you can't expect them to get too excited until the escort service arrived (with the booze.) The Paris Theater was an old movie house, maybe one of the smallest venues LZ ever played along with Danish teen clubs. They don't sound very big either, people milling around, watching from the side of the stage. I thought BBC and HTWWW were odd selections chosen for release. Serious collectors had long had those shows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Garbage Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 Weren't there only about 100 specially invited guests present? If it was bunch of industry types like DJs and record company suits you can't expect them to get too excited until the escort service arrived (with the booze.) The Paris Theater was an old movie house, maybe one of the smallest venues LZ ever played along with Danish teen clubs. They don't sound very big either, people milling around, watching from the side of the stage. I thought BBC and HTWWW were odd selections chosen for release. Serious collectors had long had those shows. I explained that on my post didn't I? please re-read it bro. I thought it was pretty odd at the young age of 11. when I found out a few years later what type of croud was there i understood.... see you forgot to add this:(this is a perfect example of a clean well behaved Zeppelin doing a show for radio. and performing in front of a not so normal croud full of cridicts and media...this shows in the performance which is not loose at all). and I totaly agree about collectors already having it. i remember it well when the radio announced this up and comming release and I was so dissapointed. this was not the normal Zeppelin you had before or after this performance. and as far as me not enjoying the performance that much? well you can say that about allot of Zeppelin fans. even Luis Rey wrote that it was a average performance on the inner sleve of the CD set. so I am not alone on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiri Posted June 30, 2008 Share Posted June 30, 2008 The late legendary British DJ John Peel mentions the concert in his autobiography: Band good. Nice blokes. Audience cold. I think that´s a fair reason for average performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatbo Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 great recording. from bbc sessions interview (in another thread): guitar world: i was struck by how clean your sound is on the bbc sessions. what is your philosphy regarding volume? page: the answer is, i turn up pretty high but i vary my pick attack-i don't play hard all the time. i find this approach helps me get more tonal and dynamic variation especially when i'm playing close to the neck. then you have the power if you really want to hit it hard. if you go hard all the time, you won't get the difference in tone. by the way, page did own some hi-watts and voxs during this time, as well as some leftover rickenbacker transonic cabinets from the yardbirds. he had the echoplex, the tonebender and a wah pedal.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Masson Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 There are too many omissions on the official release. Paris Theatre was the first Zep boot I ever heard, back in 1986. I now have an Antrabata release based on the stereo source tape of the Paris Theatre gig - and that has an incredible version of WIAWSNB that I always missed from the official release. And 8 minutes were cut from the WLL medley, which was a really good performance. I really like the guitar sound on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docron Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 posts like this get me pissed off. no one ever listens to eachother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otto Masson Posted July 1, 2008 Share Posted July 1, 2008 posts like this get me pissed off. no one ever listens to eachother. I did read your post on the previous page if that's what you mean - good post by the way. I was only speaking from my own perspective. Do you have a problem with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huw Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 It just dawned on me!!!! It must have been the HIWATTs which made everything sound so differently compared to other shows played with the more distorting Marshalls stacks. Jimmy was using them thru a short period at the beginning of the 70ies... Jimmy's Hiwatts were custom made & had a different circuit than the standard Hiwatts. They were more similar to a Marshall sound than you would expect a Hiwatt to be. A couple of guys on the Les Paul Forum got hold of the plans of the original & built a replica, & the sound is "gainy", not like the classic clean Hiwatt you would imagine. (Hiwatt themselves just put out a limited edition of Jimmy's amp) So it wouldn't be just using Hiwatts that caused the sound on the BBC recordings. Plus, Jimmy was actually using them for quite a while (roughly Aug 1969 to Nov 1971) so there are a lot of bootlegs out there with the Hiwatts on them - we're all familiar with the sound whether we realise what it is, or not. For example - the RAH footage on the offical DVD is Hiwatts. The thing about the BBC recordings is they're different to everything else. So again, it can't be the Hiwatts that are responsible for the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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