The Ossetian Conflic

[sweetangel578]

Yes, mine are from a variety of news sources from around the world. While yours are mainly from the Russian government.

Just out of curiosity - where do these news sources get their photos and footages from? I think form the Georgian government...Because I hardly saw any foreign reporters in Tshinvali at the time of war. So why do you think your info is not biased?

[eternal light]

Here is another article for you to consider Maureen. It has to do with Russian military actions at the port of Poti on the Black Sea. My question to you Maureen is why would Russia (who claims that this mission was a humanitarian rescue in South Ossetia) be doing at this Georgian port on the other side of the country?

Maybe the following report by Russian news sources could explain what Russia is doing in the port of Poti on the Black Sea. It is not an exact translation, so please do not take it too literally. It appears that Russia may be concerned that Poti may become a United States military base. Perhaps Maureen or Sweet Angel could provide a better insight.

The American Black Sea fleet obzhivaet

Под предлогом оказания гуманитарной помощи порт Поти может превратиться в базу ВМФ США Under the pretext of providing humanitarian assistance to Poti the port could become a U.S. Navy base.

2008-08-20 / Виктор Мясников 2008-08-20 / Viktor Myasnikov

Вчера заместитель начальника Генштаба ВС РФ генерал-полковник Анатолий Ноговицын заявил, что, по имеющимся данным, в конце августа в Черное море планируют войти корабли ВМС США, Канады и Польши. Yesterday, Deputy Chief of General Staff of Russian Armed Forces Colonel General, Anatoly Nogovitsyn said that, according to available data, Navy ships from the U.S., Canada and Poland are planning to enter the Black Sea in late August. Эту информацию косвенно подтвердил представитель Пентагона Брайан Уитмэн, сообщивший, что США изучают возможность использования военных кораблей для оказания гуманитарной помощи Грузии. This information indirectly confirmed; Representative Brian Uitmen, Pentagon reported that the United States are exploring the possibility of using military ships to provide humanitarian assistance to Georgia.

Недавно Турция отказала в разрешении на проход в Черное море через проливы Босфор и Дарданеллы двум кораблям американских ВМС. Recently, Turkey refused to allow the passage into the Black Sea through the Bosporus and Dardanelles straits two U.S. Navy ships. Гигантские плавучие госпитали «Комфорт» и «Мерси», находившиеся в Средиземноморье, получили приказ президента Джорджа Буша срочно отправиться в Грузию с гуманитарной миссией. Giant floating hospitals "Comfort" and "Mercy", located in the Mediterranean, were ordered by President George Bush urgently to go to Georgia with the humanitarian mission. Там они должны были поделиться частью складированных в их трюмах запасов медикаментов, продовольствия, постельного белья и прочего гуманитарного груза. There they were to share part of their stockpiled holds stocks of medicines, food, bedding and other humanitarian goods. Однако в проходе госпитальным судам было отказано. However, the passage of hospital ships were denied.

Также в разделе: Also in section:

Российский бюджет признал Южную Осетию The Russian budget has recognized South Ossetia

Деньги потекут по маршруту: Москва–Владикавказ–Цхинвали Money potekut on the route: from Moscow to Vladikavkaz-Tskhinvali

Цена победы в Южной Осетии The price of victory in South Ossetia

"Пятидневная война" обошлась России в 12,5 миллиарда рублей "Pyatidnevnaya war cost Russia at 12.5 billion rubles

Международное право на стороне России International law on the side of Russia

Защита от агрессии предусмотрена Уставом ООН the UN Charter provides for protection against aggression

Американский флот обживает Черное море The American Black Sea fleet obzhivaet

Под предлогом оказания гуманитарной помощи порт Поти может превратиться в базу ВМФ США Under the pretext of providing humanitarian assistance to Poti port could become a U.S. Navy base

МИД Турции пояснил, что, согласно Конвенции Монтре, регулирующей проход через проливы, максимальное водоизмещение проходящих судов не должно превышать 45 тыс. тонн. Turkish Foreign Ministry explained that, under the Montreux Convention regulating passage through the straits, the maximum displacement of passing vessels should not exceed 45 tons. А «Комфорт» и «Мерси» объемисты, как танкеры, – по 69 тыс. тонн. A "Comfort" and "Mercy" voluminous, as tankers - to 69 tons. Кроме того, заявка на проход должна подаваться за восемь дней. In addition, the application for passage should cast for eight days.

Сотрудник пресс-службы посольства США в Турции Виктория О’Коннелл сообщила СМИ: «Представители США и Турции ведут совместную работу для подготовки соглашения, которое позволит продолжить гуманитарную деятельность для Грузии». A member of the press service of the U.S. Embassy in the Turkish media reported Victoria O'Connell: "Representatives of the United States and Turkey are working together to prepare an agreement that will allow to continue humanitarian activities for Georgia". Более подробной информации нет. More detailed information is not. Но, судя по намерению Пентагона использовать некие военные суда для оказания гуманитарной помощи, госпитали-гиганты в Черное море турки не пропустят. However, according to the Pentagon intended to use some military ships to provide humanitarian assistance, hospitals-giants in the Black Sea Turks do not miss. Учитывая время на перегрузку гуманитарной помощи на более мелкие суда и время подачи заявки на проход через проливы, действительно раньше конца августа военно-гуманитарный конвой НАТО в Черном море не появится. Given time, the overload of humanitarian aid into smaller vessels and time of application for passage through the straits, indeed before the end of August, military and humanitarian convoy of NATO in the Black Sea will not appear.

Возникает резонный вопрос: почему нельзя зафрахтовать грузовые суда? A reasonable question: why can not charter cargo ships? Почему США намерены использовать военные суда, отнюдь не предназначенные для грузоперевозок? Why the U.S. will use military ships, is not intended for shipping? Таким образом они сразу убивают нескольких зайцев – показывают России «кузькину мать», демонстрируют свою решимость утвердиться в черноморско-кавказском регионе и морально поддерживают Тбилиси. Thus they immediately killed several hares - showed Russia "to teach s mother", demonstrating their determination to establish itself in the Black Sea-Caucasus region and morally supported Tbilisi. Плюс экономят на перевозках. Plus save on transportation. Пока запечатанные контейнеры с непонятной «гуманитаркой» доставляют в Грузию транспортными самолетами. While sealed containers with incomprehensible "gumanitarkoy" brought to Georgia by transport aircraft.

Американские корабли и так постоянно околачиваются в Черном море, особенно любят Крым. U.S. warships and so constantly okolachivayutsya in the Black Sea, particularly fond of Crimea. Совсем недавно, в июле, прошли очередные ежегодные учения «Си бриз». Most recently, in July, passed regular annual exercise "Sea Breeze". Но масштабная гуманитарная операция может привести к российским берегам целую эскадру. But large-scale humanitarian operation could lead to Russian shores of an entire squadron. Под благовидным предлогом порт Поти способен превратиться фактически в американскую военно-морскую базу. Under the plausibility of Poti port is capable of becoming virtually the American naval base.

Сейчас счет ассигнований на поддержку Тбилиси идет на десятки миллионов долларов. Now from appropriations to support Tbilisi goes to tens of millions of dollars. Однако сенатор-демократ Джозеф Байден объявил, что намерен запросить у Конгресса помощь для Грузии в объеме одного миллиарда долларов. However, Democrat Senator Joseph Biden announced his intention to seek from Congress for assistance to Georgia in the amount of one billion dollars. Такие объемы «гуманитарки» на корветах и фрегатах можно годами доставлять, обживая Черное море. These volumes "gumanitarki" on the frigate and corvette can deliver years, obzhivaya Black Sea.

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=ht...en&ie=UTF-8

[sweetangel578]

There is way more to this conflict than meets the eye. Someone mentioned oil.....ding, ding, ding, ding, ding!!! Right now Russia has a monopoly on the pipes....the US was going to build a new system through Georgia. I have no idea why Georgia would be so bold as to attack North Ossetria and an equal ingnorance as to why Russia would so overreact to that. Maybe......

I understand why the Russian governement would be getting a tad nervous about being surrounded by US allies (Poland, Georgia) but let's face it, the statement above is laughable! Yes, because the Russians are known for their humanitarian traits

I take it as a compliment. Yes, we are known for our humanitarian traits simply because we care about people. Why haven't we seen any help from the West when Ossetians have been killed in hundreds? Instead, your governments chose to wait till the end of the war and see "who kills who". While you are talking here about oil, people in Ossetia are grieving. Think about that.

[sweetangel578]

I haven't seen either of you post anything but opinions that are in lock step with Putin's. If I missed the sources you or her are using and posting to support your view, please repost them or point them out. I'll take a look. Thanks.

Our post have been throughout this thread, go back and have a look yourself. I have already said about the interview with the girl from Ossetia. Atlas has also posted some useful stuff.

[sweetangel578]

um...thats false. He has posted a grand total of zero links in this thread...

it's not a he, it's a she, first. I havent posted any links, true - because you won't believe a Russian source anyway. I have already replied about the information I have posted and referred to Atlas.

[sweetangel578]

Thank you for the article. So far I have no information concerning this situation. I'll just watch the news and hear what they say about it. But I'm sure our soldiers want to help victims. Though now I can't say anything for sure cuz I don't know what it is all about now.

Thanks again for information

All I heard is that Georgian motor boats tried to attack Russian ones and have been shipwrecked as a result.

[sweetangel578]

It's funny though how the people 'escaping' were running to Russia isn't it? Also, it is correct that the Georgians made the first move into South Ossetia but that that doesn't explain why the Russians are now in Georgian territory does it?

It's explained by the agreement of 1992 signed by Eltsin and Edward Shewarnadse of Russian army peacekeeping mission in South Ossetia.

[Medhb]

I take it as a compliment. Yes, we are known for our humanitarian traits simply because we care about people. Why haven't we seen any help from the West when Ossetians have been killed in hundreds? Instead, your governments chose to wait till the end of the war and see "who kills who". While you are talking here about oil, people in Ossetia are grieving. Think about that.

I apologize for that statement as what I MEANT to say was the Russian government. Of course the people are good people!! As you and Maureen both prove!

Also, I do know a lot of Russian people and for some reason, they all want to be HERE and not THERE! I can't speak for them as to why, I do know that some things about Russia are way better, education being one of them!

And yes, I believe this is all a giant chess game and it is not really over Osesstia....it's a lot bigger than that! It's about a balance of power, and I can't blame the Russian government for feeling the same way about the American governement as the American government feels about the Russian governement!

I truly wish the world could just live in peace and harmony...

[sweetangel578]

Maybe the following report by Russian news sources could explain what Russia is doing in the port of Poti on the Black Sea. It is not an exact translation, so please do not take it too literally. It appears that Russia may be concerned that Poti may become a United States military base. Perhaps Maureen or Sweet Angel could provide a better insight.

I believe it doesn't say a word about Russians being at Poti, it just expresses a concerns about Navy(!) ships carrying humanitarian aid. We should ask the American government why they sent such serious vessels for such simple issue as food and medicines. I'm afraid I have no more information about our army being at Poti, though I'm not refusing this fact.

[sweetangel578]

I apologize for that statement as what I MEANT to say was the Russian government. Of course the people are good people!! As you and Maureen both prove!

Also, I do know a lot of Russian people and for some reason, they all want to be HERE and not THERE! I can't speak for them as to why, I do know that some things about Russia are way better, education being one of them!

And yes, I believe this is all a giant chess game and it is not really over Osesstia....it's a lot bigger than that! It's about a balance of power, and I can't blame the Russian government for feeling the same way about the American governement as the American government feels about the Russian governement!

I truly wish the world could just live in peace and harmony...

Thank you so much for this reply. I completely agree with you. "Golden words" as we would say)

Immigration is one of many complicated issues which have roots in Soviet era and I dont want to get into this right now. Being one of them and living HERE and not THERE (jn Russia) I can say that my reason would be to experience another way of life. I admit that we still have a lot of problems and it's a long way to go, but I believe we can do it in the end.

*I truly wish the world could just live in peace and harmony...*

[wanna be drummer]

Our post have been throughout this thread, go back and have a look yourself. I have already said about the interview with the girl from Ossetia. Atlas has also posted some useful stuff.

The interview with the random girl who says Black-ops Americans are in Ossetia?

Yup, thats a realiable source (if thats what you're referring too).

[sweetangel578]

Since the end of World War II no country has taken over more land that is not theirs

Jealousy is not good for you, my friend)

Where did you get this absurd idea about terrorism? Look at Al-Qaeda whereever they are based. Are you comparing us to them? Wrong, very wrong...

I wanna see you try to convert minds of the communist nation to democracy in less than 20 years. it takes more than that. And those threats from the West arent helping at all.

[sweetangel578]

The interview with the random girl who says Black-ops Americans are in Ossetia?

Yup, thats a realiable source (if thats what you're referring too).

If you are calling Fox news an unreliable sourse - suit yourself.

If you've got no more arguments, don't try to create any out of nowhere.

[Uncle Bill]

sorry for this late reply. Fox expected a different story from that girl. they thought she's gonna talk about how she was escaping South Ossetia occupied by the Russians. It's considered to be a conservative channel, so i dont understand myself why they risked showing this interview live... sorry, dont have a link...

This statement is false, the host of the show clearly states( at the 34 second mark of this video) before the girl and her aunt even come on screen that "they were able to flee to Russia, flee to the north, to catch a flight home" . How is this a different story than what they expected? She comes and says exactly that. It's funny how people are making like he cut them off when he's obviously trying to give them as much of the remaining seconds left, to say what ever they want. If he wanted to silence them they wouldn't have come back from the break and said "this program ends in one minute but I want to give you 30 seconds to complete your thought". How is that censorship?

[wanna be drummer]

If you are calling Fox news an unreliable sourse - suit yourself.

If you've got no more arguments, don't try to create any out of nowhere.

I don't mind Fox News at all.

My problem comes when people take as fact the words of some random woman claiming that American private Miltary contractors (mercenaries if you will) are in Ossetia.

First of all, theres not one shred of proof unless you believe that woman.

Secondly, how in the hell does this Gerogian woman know what the "American emblems" are? Sure she may know the flag, but our PMCs wear their own symbols, thats what makes them mercenaries. I do not believe, in any way, that this chick could have known what Blackwater or DynCorps symbols are. Theres just no way.

Finally, I wasn't talking about his "Fox News" source of this story. I thought you meant his conspiracy theorist website with this information.

Speaking of which, where am I creating argunments out of nowhere? This is essentially an Ossetian War thread is it not? What else would be "arguing" about?

[eternal light]

I believe it doesn't say a word about Russians being at Poti, it just expresses a concerns about Navy(!) ships carrying humanitarian aid. We should ask the American government why they sent such serious vessels for such simple issue as food and medicines. I'm afraid I have no more information about our army being at Poti, though I'm not refusing this fact.

Because the American people pay heavily to support our Navy, we try to put it to good, preferably peaceful, use. Rather than build additional ships for aid purposes, we let the Navy use its ships mainly to cut costs. Although we are defense-ready, we don't have to use our Navy ships for defense during peace-time, and they can accommodate humanitarian needs admirably. Otherwise during peace-time, these expensive ships just sit at port not paying for themselves. They are more productive when they are used to improve people's lives, and thus we get the value for our tax dollar.

Ships of the USS Tarawa (LHA 1) Amphibious Ready Group (ARG) demonstrated the flexibility of naval forces in May 1991. While returning from combat duty in the Persian Gulf, the Tarawa ARG served as the centerpiece of humanitarian relief operations in cyclone-devastated Bangladesh. In the summer of 1991, Seventh Fleet ships converged on the Philippines to evacuate U.S. military and families after the eruption of Mount Pinatubo.

********************************************************************

During Operation Restore Hope in 1992-93, USS Rushmore (LSD 47) spearheaded a joint task force landing to provide humanitarian aid to drought-stricken Somalia.

********************************************************

More recently, the Pacific Fleet has taken on a larger role in providing humanitarian relief throughout the region. The USS Abraham Lincoln helped victims of the Dec. 26, 2004, tsunami that devastated coastal areas from Indonesia to Africa. In 2006, USNS Mercy (T-AH 19) visited the Philippines, Bangladesh, Indonesia and East Timor, providing much-needed medical service to thousands of people in those nations. In 2007, USS Peleliu (LHA 5) deployed on a similar Pacific Partnership mission, providing medical and dental services as well as public works construction work in the Philippines, Vietnam, the Solomon Islands, the Marshall Islands and Papua New Guinea.

************************************************************************

The approximately 178 ships, 1,500 aircraft and 160,000 Sailors, Marines and Civilians of the Pacific Fleet continue to be a credibly led, combat-ready and surge-ready Fleet prepared in peace, crisis or war.

http://www.cpf.navy.mil/history.shtml

BRUSSELS, Belgium - NATO pulled its punches against Russia on Tuesday, suspending formal contacts as punishment for the Georgia invasion but bucking U.S. pressure for more severe penalties.

The Russian ambassador to NATO played down the impact of the emergency meeting of the Western alliance.

"The mountain gave birth to a mouse," said Dmitry Rogozin.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26294314

Hopefully, cooler heads will prevail.

[wanna be drummer]

If you are calling Fox news an unreliable sourse - suit yourself.

If you've got no more arguments, don't try to create any out of nowhere.

Anywho, I saw that video you were referring too. I was talking about a completely unrelated one, so my apologies.

In any case, can this 12 year-old girl really be taken seriously? I mean, come on, she's far too young to understand the conflict, not to mention her family is probably very pro-Russian, so how can she be even remotely, a credible source of information?

[XerSizNRite]

[eternal light]

Anywho, I saw that video you were referring too. I was talking about a completely unrelated one, so my apologies.

In any case, can this 12 year-old girl really be taken seriously? I mean, come on, she's far too young to understand the conflict, not to mention her family is probably very pro-Russian, so how can she be even remotely, a credible source of information?

I thought the American citizen, Joe Mestas, who was interviewed in this video was credible. He was in Georgia when this latest discord erupted.

[wanna be drummer]

Again I say, this is not about the Russian people. Their government has been a killing machine against them. http://markhumphrys.com/soviet.html#butchers

Putin = KGB

Agreed. Putins a fucking tool. How that assclown is still breathing is a Gift from Satan

[pickenpieces]

In any case, can this 12 year-old girl really be taken seriously? I mean, come on, shes far too young to understand the conflict, so how can she be even remotely, a credible source of information?

Anne Frank was only 13-15 when she wrote her book and look at the acclaim that gets. Some people are gifted at such a young age so dont discount because of that.

[wanna be drummer]

Anne Frank was only 13-15 when she wrote her book and look at the acclaim that gets. Some people are gifted at such a young age so dont discount because of that.

Yeah, lets just pray and hope that this random 12 year old, with ties to sympathetic Russians, got the story right

[Medhb]

Between Putin running Russia and Bush running America we're all doomed

We're all just pawns in a game that is bigger than we are.....

[wanna be drummer]

Between Putin running Russia and Bush running America we're all doomed

We're all just pawns in a game that is bigger than we are.....

Bush is a just little bit better, IMO of course, than Putin Medhb

[Medhb]

Between Putin running Russia and Bush running America we're all doomed

We're all just pawns in a game that is bigger than we are.....

Who knows who to believe? It's probably somewhere in the middle. I still don't understand why Georgia would be so stupid as to try to pull something like that off...and they cut off the water supply? Hmmmm....and we are also hearing that Russia cut off all internet connectivity from Georgia so we know we can't get any news that way.....

Sad, sad, sad....