All this over a stupid Teddy Bear...

[Del Zeppnile]

haha. I'm sorry!

To be "stoned" means to "get high" ... you know ... on pot.

"bogart" means "don't smoke it all".

I was making a joke.

lol sorry...how dumb am I? I'm tired and get the wrong ideas!!! sorry. I think I should go and get a good night sleep!!!

thanks for the bogart thing! I'm just curious! I love learning new english expressions!

To further your education on Amercian (not English) expressions:

'Bogart' as Scratch said, is an expression used when someone is not sharing (or passing around) the 'joint' (marijuana cigarette). And the meaning behind it comes from a visual of famed American film star Humphrey Bogart because he almost always had a cigarette hanging from his lips... like a guy that is not passing the joint... he would be "bogarting" the joint, and someone would say, "HEY, DON'T BOGART THAT PASS IT AROUND!"

That concludes your American expression lesson for today.

Next time we will discuss the meaning behind the expression, Taking a ride on the baloney pony.

.

[spatdrastik]

To further your education on Amercian (not English) expressions:

'Bogart' as Scratch said, is an expression used when someone is not sharing (or passing around) the 'joint' (marijuana cigarette). And the meaning behind it comes from a visual of famed American film star Humphrey Bogart because he almost always had a cigarette hanging from his lips... like a guy that is not passing the joint... he would be "bogarting" the joint, and someone would say, "HEY, DON'T BOGART THAT PASS IT AROUND!"

That concludes your American expression lesson for today.

Next time we will discuss the meaning behind the expression, Taking a ride on the baloney pony.

.

Del go to your room young man...I want you to think long and hard about what you've done and then apologize to everyone for being so insensitive and offensive.

and keep it in your pants while you are in there

[*eviljane*]

Religion should not be discussed at all because you can always count on someone getting offended. Stepping on someone else's beliefs is always bad territory compared to stepping on someone's ideas.

[Old Scratch]

I am not certain that Muhammad personally committed violent acts himself.

.....Such a search would take a really long time and perhaps be fruitless.

Men should take responsibility for their actions and not blame their own acts on the prophet Muhammad.

That really dodges the point, doesn't it?

Mohammed was a warrior ... and not only a conquering warrior, but one who personally bid his followers to deceive, oppress, subjugate and kill those who did not follow him.

~666

[Knebby]

In Spanish-speaking areas of North and South America, there are plenty people named Jesus. That's kind of what I thought of when I saw this.

Yeah I know that - my point was you won't find one named "Jesus CHRIST"

[Old Scratch]

Do you mean the way the Old Testament did?

Exactly what does this have to do with millions of muslims, worldwide, committing or supporting violence, misogyny, subjugation and hatred?

Because the Old Testemant gives an historical record of savage customs that no one in the Modern world practices means that millions of muslims are justified in committing or supporting the savagery outlined in the Koran?

Apples to apples my friend.

~666

[Old Scratch]

Yeah I know that - my point was you won't find one named "Jesus CHRIST"

That's really nit-picky, isn't it Knobby?

Why don't you just say "you won't find one named Jesus Christ Who Sits at the Right Hand of the Father" ... or "Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour".

Anyway ... I doubt there would be any jail-time or lashing with any of it.

However,he might get crucified by the bullies in school.

~666

[Old Scratch]

Such a search would take a really long time and perhaps be fruitless.

Men should take responsibility for their actions and not blame their own acts on the prophet Muhammad.

Quote the Prophet (PBUH):

I am with you: give firmness to the believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: Smite ye above their necks [behead them] and smite all their fingertips off them.

(Sura 8:12)

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other.

Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers." (Sura 5:51)

It is not for any Prophet to have prisoners until he make wide slaughter in the land.

(Sura 8:67).

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."

(Sura 9:73)

When We resolve to raze a city, We first give warning to those of its people who live in comfort. If they persist in sin, judgement is irrevocably passed, and We destroy it utterly."

(Sura 17:16)

~666

[Knebby]

That's really nit-picky, isn't it Knobby?

Why don't you just say "you won't find one named Jesus Christ Who Sits at the Right Hand of the Father" ... or "Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour".

Anyway ... I doubt there would be any jail-time or lashing with any of it.

However,he might get crucified by the bullies in school.

~666

You bore me.

[Old Scratch]

You bore me.

I know, sweetie.

And that pleases me.

Now if only I could illicit your utter contempt and personal hatred, I would be a complete man.

natch.

~666

[eternal light]

That really dodges the point, doesn't it?

Mohammed was a warrior ... and not only a conquering warrior, but one who personally bid his followers to deceive, oppress, subjugate and kill those who did not follow him.

~666

In his world, warriors were everywhere. Initially, the prophet Muhammad encountered hostile tribes and suffered harsh treatment; yet he endured. Eventually he became recognized as a unifier amidst conflict, and his followers prevailed in their conquests.

Muhammad gained few followers early on, and was largely met with hostility from the tribes of Mecca; he was treated harshly and so were his followers. To escape persecution, Muhammad and his followers migrated to Yathrib (Medina) in the year 622. This historic event, the Hijra, marks the beginning of the Islamic calendar. In Medina, Muhammad managed to unite the conflicting tribes, and after eight years of fighting with the Meccan tribes, his followers, who by then had grown to ten thousand, conquered Mecca. In 632, on returning to Medina from his 'Farewell pilgrimage', Muhammad fell ill and died. By the time of his death, most of Arabia had converted to Islam.

[eternal light]

Exactly what does this have to do with millions of muslims, worldwide, committing or supporting violence, misogyny, subjugation and hatred?

Because the Old Testemant gives an historical record of savage customs that no one in the Modern world practices means that millions of muslims are justified in committing or supporting the savagery outlined in the Koran?

Apples to apples my friend.

~666

From a historical perspective, it shows the universal weakness of humanity, that people have made the same mistakes in the past in the name of the one they worship. It demonstrates the weakness is not limited to the followers of Islam, at least historically. To go so far as to conclude that anyone is justified in such acts committed out of weakness is far-fetched in my view.

[FuzzyMerkin]

I'm getting tired of it. I think I said somewhere that I'm all for respecting other cultures....I've given it some more thought and I've come to the conclusion that I'm not for respecting just any culture or religion - and certainly not one that's not going to return the favor. I'm happy to treat every Muslim as an individual based on their behavior - just like I'll treat every human being - and I can't help but despise those people who preach and practice hatred....even more so when they try to hide behind their religion. We've come to the point where you can't citicize nutters and zealots without being called intolerant. What a joke.

[/rant]

[eternal light]

Quote the Prophet (PBUH):

I am with you: give firmness to the believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: Smite ye above their necks [behead them] and smite all their fingertips off them.

(Sura 8:12)

O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other.

Whoso of you makes them his friends is one of them. Allah guides not the people of the evildoers." (Sura 5:51)

It is not for any Prophet to have prisoners until he make wide slaughter in the land.

(Sura 8:67).

Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and deal harshly with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate."

(Sura 9:73)

When We resolve to raze a city, We first give warning to those of its people who live in comfort. If they persist in sin, judgement is irrevocably passed, and We destroy it utterly."

(Sura 17:16)

~666

And in that way God permitted the destroyer to come forth; why He allowed it, I don't know. Eventually the truth prevails and the rest falls by the wayside. When something comes to pass that coincides with the prophet's words, you notice that. Only God can see into the heart of a prophet to know if it is true; I am only His humble servant, may God have mercy on me.

[17:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[17:1] Most glorified is the One who summoned His servant (Muhammad) during the night, from the Sacred Masjid (of Mecca) to the farthest place of prostration, whose surroundings we have blessed, in order to show him some of our signs. He is the Hearer, the Seer.

[17:2] Similarly, we gave Moses the scripture, and rendered it a beacon for the Children of Israel that: "You shall not set up any idol as a lord and master beside Me."

[17:3] They are descendants of those whom we carried with Noah; he was an appreciative servant.

[17:4] We addressed the Children of Israel in the scripture: "You will commit gross evil on earth, twice. You are destined to fall into great heights of arrogance.

[17:5] "When the first time comes to pass, we will send against you servants of ours who possess great might, and they will invade your homes. This is a prophecy that must come to pass.

www.submission.org/suras/sura17

[Jarlaxle 56]

We've come to the point where you can't citicize nutters and zealots without being called intolerant. What a joke.

Exactly, people are so god damned worried that some minority is being disrespected all the time. So they shit on other people's rights, while trying to make the minority of people happy. Let me ask everyone this, is it better to have less people happy, and fuck over the majority? Or go with what the majority of people think is right? Isn't that the whole idea of a DEMOCRACY?

[Old Scratch]

Another example of a islamic nation loving and respecting their women:

---

In response to a ruling by Turkey's Supreme Court of Appeals that marital rape is not a crime, İsmet Berkan wrote in his column in Radikal that because of the ruling, if a woman "resists and is killed by her husband in the end, his penalty even could be reduced due to 'grievous provocation!' We learned [about] this during the ‘Stop Violence Against Women’ week..."

He continued, "Unfortunately, the court's decision has the effect of turning women into sex slaves in marriages... Forcing someone into sexual intercourse is called 'rape.' In Turkey, which is making efforts to end violence against women, the Court of Appeals decision must have been a really bad coincidence..."

---

Source: Turkish Daily News, Turkey, November 30, 2007

How much worse would it be if Turkey was ruled by Sharia Law ... and not a secular government?

If you have been paying attention to what's happening there, you will find that it is on the verge ...

[Old Scratch]

SPEAK UP FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

SPEAK OUT AGAINST SHARIA LAW.

~666

[eternal light]

Sharia law dates back quite a ways. One of its earlist jurists, Al-Shafi'i, lived from (150 AH/767 AD - 204 AH/820 AD). Muhammad, the prophet, died in 632, and Al-Shafi'i, the jurist, was born in 767.

Although I'm certain men will make mistakes, I trust in the one God (Allah) who has authority over the law, and His name is the Father of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer. As always, I trust He understands the needs of teddy bears as well as others.

"Sharia" means "path to the water source". Water is generally good as long as it brings life, nourishes and sustains.

Sharia (Arabic: شريعة transliteration: Šarīʿah) is the body of Islamic religious law. The term means "way" or "path to the water source"; it is the legal framework within which the public and some private aspects of life are regulated for those living in a legal system based on Muslim principles of jurisprudence and for Muslims living outside the domain.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

Al-Shafi'i, Arabic jurist (150 AH/767 AD - 204 AH/820 AD). He was active in juridical matters and his teaching eventually led to the Shafi'i school of fiqh (or Madh'hab) named after him. Hence he is often called Imam al-Shafi'i.

His full name was Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Idrīs al-Shafi'i (ابو عبد الله محمد بن إدريس الشافعي).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ash-Shafi

[Old Scratch]

SPEAK UP FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

SPEAK OUT AGAINST SHARIA LAW.

~666

[eternal light]

And Mr. Teddy, too? He needs his rights protected.

Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

[Old Scratch]

SPEAK UP FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

SPEAK OUT AGAINST SHARIA LAW.

~666

[Del Zeppnile]

I'm getting tired of it. I think I said somewhere that I'm all for respecting other cultures....I've given it some more thought and I've come to the conclusion that I'm not for respecting just any culture or religion - and certainly not one that's not going to return the favor. I'm happy to treat every Muslim as an individual based on their behavior - just like I'll treat every human being - and I can't help but despise those people who preach and practice hatred....even more so when they try to hide behind their religion. We've come to the point where you can't citicize nutters and zealots without being called intolerant. What a joke.

[/rant]

You have basically just stated my creed. I believe that all people are equal, even if I also believe that their cultures, religions and poltical systems are not.

There is a pecking order in my opinion, and I do not have a problem with pointing that out. In fact, I believe that especially to the ones at the bottom of the order (sharia law, taliban, head hunters, nazis etc) we have a moral duty to offer as much scorn and ridicule as we can. But that being said, I also reconize that there are some here who will accuse me of thinking the same way as those who I have mentioned. That I am making similar judgements on those cultures and religions which are different than mine. But this is actually a fallacy. Because we must reconize that there can never be moral equivalancy between a group which advocates the execution of a woman who allowed a 'Teddy bear' to be named Mohamed and a person who believes that the Ten Commandments should be allowed to be posted in public places. Far too many people are making the false assumption that 'Fudamentalist Islam' or 'Fundamentalist Christianity' are the same. And I challenge anyone to prove that they are.

[Old Scratch]

Sharia deals with many aspects of day-to-day life, including politics, economics, banking, business, contracts, family, sexuality, hygiene, and social issues.

"Sharia - Because people need to be told how to dress, beat their women lawfully, and wipe their asses."

The More You Know.

~666

SPEAK UP FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

SPEAK OUT AGAINST SHARIA LAW.

[eternal light]

"Sharia - Because people need to be told how to dress, beat their women lawfully, and wipe their asses."

The More You Know.

~666

SPEAK UP FOR WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

SPEAK OUT AGAINST SHARIA LAW.

Modernly in some, perhaps too many cases, the law is applied in a way that does not satisfy our conscience, but historically the law has a foundation that is centuries old.

In Latin there is an expression called "stare decisis", which means "let the decision stand", where previously established precedents remain.

Before I spend all my energy speaking out against a law that is centuries older than me, perhaps I should consider what might persuade someone from carrying out extreme penalties that shock my conscience, and to adopt a more lenient position.

There is no strictly static codified set of laws of Sharia. Sharia is more of a system of devising laws, based on the Qur'an (the religious text of Islam), hadith (sayings and doings of Muhammad), (sayings and doings of of the early followers of Muhammad), ijma (consensus), qiyas (analogy) and centuries of debate, interpretation and precedent.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharia

[Old Scratch]

What is Sharia?

05/08/2003

Sharia is Islamic law. The term literally means “path to a watering place.” In the deserts of Arabia, where Islam originated, the path to water is literally a path to life. Losing the trail, or striking off on one’s own, is a sure way to die.

From the earliest days of Islam, Muslims have sought to be “rightly guided” in every area of their lives. To obtain this guidance they turned to the Quran and to stories of Muhammad’s words and deeds (see “What are the Hadith and the Sunna?”).

Eventually, in the eighth and ninth centuries, legal scholars developed elaborate systems of law based on those sources. Collectively and individually, these systems are called Sharia.

Sharia covers virtually every aspect of life, from diet and personal hygiene to international relations. Among the areas that Sharia regulates are:

* crime

* distribution of wealth

* dress and apparel

* inheritance and disposal of property

* male/female relations

* marriage and divorce

* relations between Muslims and non-Muslims

* religious observances

* trade and commerce

* war

Unlike other legal systems, Sharia is not a product of legislative bodies or royal decrees. Rather, “Islamic law represents an extreme case of a ‘jurists’ law’; it was created and developed by private specialists; legal science and not the state plays the part of a legislator, and scholarly handbooks have the force of law. This became possible because Islamic law successfully claimed to be based on divine authority ....”1

Sharia was the law of the land in Muslim territories until the European colonial period, when it was replaced or restricted in many countries by Western legal systems. Since the late 1960s, however, efforts to reinstate Sharia have gained a great deal of momentum. This is a cause for grave concern as Islamic laws are highly discriminatory toward women and non-Muslims and sharply curtail freedom of religion.

For example, under classical Islamic law, a Muslim woman’s testimony is worth only half that of a Muslim man’s. What’s more, in cases of rape or fornication, four male witnesses are needed to prove the act. On the other hand, a woman can be found guilty on the basis of being pregnant. If she claims to have been raped but can’t produce the required number of male witnesses—a near impossibility—she may also be charged with making a false accusation and be given 80 lashes.

Several states in Nigeria are ruled by Islamic law. In 2000, an unmarried Nigerian teenager was found pregnant and sentenced to receive 100 lashes with a cane. The girl claimed that she had been pressured into having sex with different men by her father. Because she was unable to come up with the required number of witnesses, she was sentenced to an additional 80 lashes. Owing to international pressure, the additional sentence was dropped. Nonetheless, she still received the 100 lashes, while no one else was punished.2

Under classical Islamic law, the situation is even worse for non-Muslims. In court cases between Muslims and non-Muslims, the testimony of non-Muslims is inadmissible.3 This practice waned under the influence of Westernization, but it still occurs in some places. Thus, according to the U.S. State Department’s 2003 International Religious Freedom Report for Saudia Arabia, “Under the provisions of Sharia law as practiced in the country, judges may discount the testimony of people who are not practicing Muslims or who do not adhere to the official interpretation of Islam.”4

For the vast majority of Muslims, Sharia has virtually the same sacred status as the Quran and Hadith. In fact, under Islamic law, criticizing Sharia is blasphemy. In Afghanistan, in mid-2002, Sima Samar, Minister for Women’s Affairs for the country’s interim government, was charged with blasphemy for allegedly stating that she did not believe in Sharia law. The case was dropped for insufficient evidence. However, the country’s Supreme Court Deputy Chief Justice, Fazel Ahmad Manawi, said, “Maybe if we get stronger evidence, we will reopen the case.”

~666