Lester Bangs: Why the hate?

[Bertha]

Anyone know why Lester Bangs didn't like Led Zep?

Here's a quote from an OLD interview (circa 1980)

http://www.cousincreep.com/lester.htm

Sue Mathews: How important do you think the star system is in Rock’n’Roll?

Lester: Well I hate Rock’n’Roll stars, I have for a long time, I really have been against it. I really think the star system was good in the 60’s I guess. You know, with The Beatles, The Rolling Stones and that, and even then it was probably pretty sick. But really the end of the star system of Rock’n’Roll I think you could see from about the late 60’s & early 70’s. When you then have people who didn’t have personality that were set up like stars like say Joe Cocker or Eric Clapton, Cream and that, or Robert Plant and Led Zeppelin. I mean, these aren’t tremendously strong personalities like John Lennon or Mick Jagger or Bob Dylan. They just aren’t. And since then it’s just been getting worse and worse, I mean for every Bruce Springsteen or Patti Smith who really does deserve to be called a star, you’ve got a dozen Styx’s,

Sue Mathews: Well I haven’t been to a Led Zeppelin concert in the last 10 years so. .

Lester: Well the last time I saw them they just sort of stood up there with this attitude, they barely moved, I mean any of them, the expression on their faces, the whole way the carried themselves was like ‘You people are so lucky to even get to look at us, so why should we do anything’. They didn’t play that well, they were just very indifferent and they just didn’t give to their audience as opposed to The Clash that just give and give and give, and give some more and are really concerned about their audience.

[eternal light]

It depends on who we like and who we don't like. Apparently there are those who he liked better than others.

[Kashmir330]

Lester Bangs seemed to hate on about everybody. What a strange, strange man. I read in a review he wrote for Led Zeppelin III where he said how much he loved "That's The Way". Lester seemed keen on not giving anyone too much praise. Typical critics

[snapper]

Anyone know why Lester Bangs didn't like Led Zep?

Here's a quote from an OLD interview (circa 1980)

http://www.cousincreep.com/lester.htm

What the Clash gave to their audience and what Zeppelin gave to their audience are both two very different things and two very different audiences so there's really no point in comparing them.

You know things are slow on the Zeppelin front when 30 year old derogatory remarks about the band are being dug up and posted, regardless, it still gets my goat when I hear this kind of eletist bullshit.

[beatbo]

i with ya. they don't make them like lester anymore. i loved the fact that he probably hated your favorite band, but he always pointed out the good and let you decide if you wanted to spend the $6.98 for an album. if you want to see more of the good things he wrote about zeppelin, read 'psychotic reactions and carburetor dung'. there isn't many, but what is there is on point. he seemed to me to be more against the rock star than the music.

the article with the comment on "that's the way" is in this book, i believe....

[eternal light]

I think that he was somewhat narrow-minded and tended to be subjective. It is good that he valued music though.

He recognized if someone had a lot of soul. He looked beyond the superficial surface and recognized when music had substance. He could see through the hype of the business better than most. I seriously doubt that he was elitist.

He wasn't just another critic, but his vision may be somewhat limited, clouded maybe. I'm not sure that he thought outside the box all the time. He got stuck in his favorite viewpoint sometimes. Then someone came along to burst his bubble.

He saw a lot come and go in music.

I'm not sure what he meant by his remark in regard to Led Zeppelin and Robert Plant. Perhaps his first impression was that Robert Plant was made of fluff, and he dismissed him as an airhead, even though he is not really the airhead type.

Maybe it was the blonde bimbo image that confused him, as if he were just another one of Jimmy Page's cheap dates. Fortunately he could sing, and thus was redeemed. Hope springs eternal.

[eternal light]

About Robert:

No doubt Lester saw them on an off night, when both Robert's voice and Jimmy's guitar playing weren't so good. I'd have to guess 1977.

Yes, that makes sense.

rocksbackpages.com

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lester_Bangs

[Joe Bloggs]

"I hate Patti Smith. She's a pretentious wretch. But then I hate the Village Voice, which originally assigned me this piece, and which can be pretty pretentious itself. I hate all the magazines I write for, don't you hate yourself for buying their dead formula hackwork?" - Lester Bangs, "Review of Easter" 05/78 Phonograph Record Magazine.

[Mangani]

Lester Bangs was just being his usual arsey self. That's just him.

If you listen to side by side interviews with Robert Plant and Mick Jagger well I'm sorry but Planty has WAY more 'personality' than Mick Jagger and is far more interesting to listen to talk. Plant is a far more intelligent and articulate guy. I guess, though, he feels that Mick Jagger waddling about on stage like Max Wall mean's he's got more 'personality'.

Shame he didn't feel the the need to compare actual singing voices. Oooh I wonder why.

[eternal light]

Yes, he missed his big chance.

[greenman]

I'd disagree with his "stars" comment, yes Zep were sucessful but they also deliberately shyed away from having a "media personality". Ultimately I think that kind of music jurnolism has been incredabley destructive, yes Springsteen, The Clash, the Stone Roses etc had personality and produced quality music but more and more were seeing manifactured personality used to turn quiet frankly average musicians into stars. I'm not talking popstars either, a band like the Strokes for example produced decent but hardly brilliant music yet a bit of rockstar postering and some "savours of rock" hype and there stars.

[Wolfman]

WTF is he talking about how they just stood there? I think the last thing that Jimmy and Robert were known for is standing still on stage. He's a moron.

[Jahfin]

When I saw The Song Remains the Same back in the 70s I was amazed that Plant didn't seem to move around much. Same for Ronnie Van Zant in the Skynyrd tribute short that played before The Song Remains the Same.

I may not have always shared Bangs' opinion on any artist but I did admire him for his honesty no matter how harsh the criticism.

[longdistancewinner]

I bought Psychotic Reactions... years ago and I can honestly say he waffled on through it. Maybe it was because I was a bit young, but I couldn't make head nor tail of it. Me thinks I should give it another try, but I gave up halfway through the first time.

I always thought it was kind of ironic how he didn't see anything 'special' in rock stars, yet lived and died like one himself.

[eternal light]

WTF is he talking about how they just stood there?

May he rest in peace.

Leslie Conway Bangs (December 13, 1948 – April 30, 1982) was an American music journalist, author and musician. Most famous for his work at Creem and Rolling Stone magazines, Bangs was and still is regarded as an extremely influential voice in rock criticism.

source: wiki

[danelectro59]

Why the surprise? Led Zeppelin were never really big with the critics and Lester Bangs was a critics critic who despised most of the established rockers of the day, opting for the avant garde punks instead. The guy wrote some good stuff, but I didn't always agree with him.

[bigstickbonzo]

I can somewhat see his point about the Clash's energy compared to Zeppelin's at the time. In the spirit of youth and freshness, the Clash were doing what Zeppelin had done in 68-69: took everyone by storm with their balls-to-the-wall approach.

[BlackDog71]

I can somewhat see his point about the Clash's energy compared to Zeppelin's at the time. In the spirit of youth and freshness, the Clash were doing what Zeppelin had done in 68-69: took everyone by storm with their balls-to-the-wall approach.

TRUE!!!! Good point.

[georgio]

Good post. Gotta remember - two things.

- There were a LOT of great artists and bands in Zep's time. That would be enough to influence any critic's opinion. Zep didn't exist in a vacuum.

- Zep was perceived and projected with a lot of Hype in those days. Even though they were media shy, the press would find things to mention or hype them up in popular magazines (even today). I think Bangs was reacting in part to the fuss around Zep - like "what was the big deal about these guys? robert just standing there and girls screaming" - I can imagine that's how he may have perceived them, whereas the Clash being new, being underground and edgier (even Robert would admit that) came in fresher and in your face.

Zep were certainly legendary, but not like now - where time has proven how enduring their music is. They transcended the whole teen idol deal. God bless the Classic Rock radio stations. Zep has been fortunate - many "great" bands and acts of the era will remain undiscovered by the masses today. Zep will live on.

***As a postscript - I found it kinda funny that Bangs died listening to the Human League!! I bought that LP in 1980 or 1981. British synth new wave pop!!! I listened to them before I bought Zep!

****Second postscript - Rolling Stone critics of the time were often indulgent, smug, verbose and overrated in their critical abilities. I have the books and the magazines, and their guys OFTEN got it wrong...With the exception of Cameron Crowe and Zep - I would honestly say that most RS guys were NOT Zep fans. They always loved Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan though. Those were their gods. Not Jimmy and Robert.

[Jahfin]

God bless the Classic Rock radio stations. Zep has been fortunate - many "great" bands and acts of the era will remain undiscovered by the masses today. Zep will live on.

I actually hold the exact opposite opinion of Classic Rock radio but that's another thread entirely. Anyone that's really into music at all will take the time to seek out other artists that interest them on their own just as I did as a kid. They don't need stations that play the same 5 or 6 song (if even that many) by the same handful of artists over and over again to do that. I also believe that any artist worth their salt (such as Zep, Dylan, the Stones, the Who, etc.) doesn't need the aid of Classic Rock radio to "live on". If anything, Classic Rock radio is very limiting whereas satellite radio channels such as XM/Sirius' Deep Track play a wide range of artists, many of which never even got played by the most progressive album oriented rock stations back in the 70s in the first place.

[georgio]

I actually hold the exact opposite opinion of Classic Rock radio but that's another thread entirely. Anyone that's really into music at all will take the time to seek out other artists that interest them on their own just as I did as a kid. They don't need stations that play the same 5 or 6 song (if even that many) by the same handful of artists over and over again to do that. I also believe that any artist worth their salt (such as Zep, Dylan, the Stones, the Who, etc.) doesn't need the aid of Classic Rock radio to "live on". If anything, Classic Rock radio is very limiting whereas satellite radio channels such as XM/Sirius' Deep Track play a wide range of artists, many of which never even got played by the most progressive album oriented rock stations back in the 70s in the first place.

The truth is many people these days don't know who Zep are. You can blame Classic Rock Radio stations for playing the dinosaurs and hair metal bands, but many people aren't just going to "stumble upon" Zep unless they hear them somewhere first. I was given "Black Dog" on a tape but without a Classic Rock station like KLOS in LA back in the 80s - I probably wouldn't have deepened my appreciation and curiousity of Zep. I grew up on the Beatles, and jazz music...then some Deep Purple...Zep wouldn't have been on my radar without repeated exposure on the radio.

The big guys you mention have made it, but there are many fine classic artists out there that never get heard unless you try looking for them - maybe on Youtube. The internet has broadened the range of availability for more progressive artists but that's a different argument. We live in different times now.

In the pre-internet days my friend - music wasn't as available as it is now, except on the radio and record stores...now it's arguably just a few clicks away.

[bigstickbonzo]

If anything, Classic Rock radio is very limiting whereas satellite radio channels such as XM/Sirius' Deep Track play a wide range of artists, many of which never even got played by the most progressive album oriented rock stations back in the 70s in the first place.

Indeed.

[FireOpal]

***As a postscript - I found it kinda funny that Bangs died listening to the Human League!!

Is that what killed him?

The Zep-slamming could very well have been motivated by jealousy as well. Bangs was in a failed band that knocked around the CBGBs scene for awhile without getting anywhere. His screeds against Blondie and Deborah Harry in particular were motivated largely by envy, and an unhealthy dose of misogyny.

You're right about Rolling Stone writers having a kind of institutional bias against Zep. It only started to lift when "hip" bands like Nirvana claimed them as an influence.

[Jahfin]

The truth is many people these days don't know who Zep are.

I'd say, the truth is, many more people know who Zeppelin are these days than you may realize. If near constant play of the same songs over and over again on the abomination known as Classic Rock radio isn't enough there's also been the Cadillac commercials, exposure through movies, magazines (hell, they might even get more coverage these days than when they were actually an active band), t-shirts everywhere from Target to Walmart, DVDs and not least of all, the internet (which you mentioned yourself). Led Zeppelin are far from some unknown band that's lingered in obscurity.

In the pre-internet days my friend - music wasn't as available as it is now, except on the radio and record stores...now it's arguably just a few clicks away.

Having grown up in the "pre-internet" days I can say I discovered Led Zeppelin through neither the radio, record stores or magazines but via an older brother. I'm sure the same thing happens today and far more often, especially through parents and other relatives that grew up in the same time period as I did.

[snapper]

I'd say, the truth is, many more people know who Zeppelin are these days than you may realize. If near constant play of the same songs over and over again on the abomination known as Classic Rock radio isn't enough there's also been the Cadillac commercials, exposure through movies, magazines (hell, they might even get more coverage these than when they were actually an active band), t-shirts everywhere from Target to Walmart, DVDs and not least of all, the internet (which you mentioned yourself). Led Zeppelin are far from some unknown band that's lingered in obscurity.

Having grown up in the "pre-internet" days I can say I discovered Led Zeppelin through neither the radio, record stores or magazines but via an older brother. I'm sure the same thing happens today and far more often, especially through parents and other relatives that grew up in the same time period as I did.

I agree with you, Jahfin. But, considering all the different ways there is to access any kind of music today, I would hardly consider classic rock radio an important factor in where music in general is going anymore.

And, from the youngsters I know who dig Zeppelin, well, as you said they were turned on to them through a big brother, sister, mother or father.

Basically, kids don't listen to classic rock radio, they got ipods, computers and video games, they are exposed tons of different music, much much more so than when

I was a kid. Thats for sure.

When I was young boy I had to deal with my mothers obsession with Johnny Mathis,

Neil Diamond and Tom Jones. Yes, I was an abused child.

Actually, I loved Tom Jones and his wicked guitar player.

Thanks Mom.