The REAL 1977 Tour

[Dirigible]

You know, I've read testimonies of people who saw them live in multiple years, and a lot agree that the show that floored them the most was in 77', in fact, a lot of people hold these shows as being the best of their lives.

The reason could have been the joy to see them, the ambience of a 77' show is just like no other, riotous crazy and uplifting. You can really define the term "Houses of the Holy" with these shows. Now, put a 73 or even a 75 ambience (crowd-wise) and they just wouldn't work. in 77 it was Zeppelin, higher above anything else, and when you where a real fan and you actually saw them live, you wouldn't care for all the sloppy mistakes. But they all really show up on bootlegs.

So yeah, quite mixed, it was even better if you where there, in fact, what they put up in 77 rivals whatever went before or after that.... of course, if you where there.

Nicely said, Sibh, a razor sharp perception of the times and the fans. In 1977 the band had achieved living legend status, in 1973 they were just another one of a hundred touring acts you could go see every year. Peter Grant's very canny move to take the band off the road after 1973 for two years at a whack helped create that legendary status. Fans became starved for them and couldn't see them whenever they wanted like they could any other band. While I'm on that point I remember Plant saying at the end of the 1977 show I saw, "See you in two years."

In addition to that when John Bonham was alive I saw Zeppelin five times between 1969 and 1977 and every time I saw them they kept getting better! (Every time I saw Grand Funk or ZZ Top they got worse). I never thought anything could top the pair of 1973 Led Zep shows I saw. Let me testify I was on a natural high for two weeks afterwards because they made every other group I'd seen sound amateurish. Houses of the Holy had been released six or eight weeks before the '73 American tour began. After seeing those two Zep performances that year I listened to nothing else but HOTH during those skin-tingling mind-boggled two weeks that followed.

I wanted to build up the 1973 shows because when the 1977 tour rolled into town my expectations were impossibly high. But Jim & crew fucking DELIVERED and blew the '73 tour off the stage (didn't get to see '75, the Navy had other plans for me). My natural high from the 1977 shows did not abate for months. This was not because I was swept up in Zeppelmania or had never seen the band. If I could be transported back in time and see any of those '69-'77 shows again, 1977 would be the concert I'd pick.

Sloppy mistakes? From a technique standpoint maybe, but attitude is everything. There's a guitarist on this site who calls himself Evster who commented best on that score. He once said every rock guitarist in the world wished they could play as sloppy as Jimmy Page and have his almighty stoned swagger. I endorse that sentiment, Evster is right.

[Dirigible]

Like the Ocean, I too was at that concert the night Plant's shirt caught fire. Here I came all the way from upstate NY and was terrified they would walk off stage but thankfully the show went on and it was great. According to my recollection the bottle rocket was blown off exactly at the start of the concert during the first few chords of "the Song Remains the Same" which they opened with. Unreal.

Page got hit on the hand with an M80 (firecracker) at one 1977 gig and the band had to stop the show for a few minutes. CREEM published a photo of a bunch of people gathered around Jim looking at his hand. Dodging frisbees onstage is one thing, but glass bottles and fireworks is another altogether. BANG!! Bet that straightened Pagey right up!

[Dirigible]

As I said I don't think the boots lie and ultimately Zep were mostly about the performance even in 77. Not that most shows I'v heard were "bad" but they were not for me as good as what had come before although NQ was almost always great.

Ontop of being afraid of being viewed as fanboys who can't be critical of there favourite band I do think Zep fans music tastes have an effect aswell. Seems to me that most boot collectors are fans of bands like the Allmans, Deep Purple, Clapton etc, bands that valued cleaner technically great performance where as Zep always had a bit of the wild garage rock style right from the start. Thats what was missing from the P&P shows for me, yeah they were technically better than Zep's latter years but they didnt have anything like the same urgencey and passion.

I don't mean to keep butting heads with you, greenman, because you make so much sense about certain elements of the 1977 tour. As I stated earlier I won't argue with you however you posted another statement I so vehemently disagree with that I'm grinding my bloody teeth. To quote Communication Breakdown, 'it drives me INSAAAAAANE!' So here goes.........

The P&P tours were fun maybe even great, but I have to contrast them with true Zep performances to which they do not compare. The shows with the orchestra and the shows without it when P&P went on the road as a quartet were enjoyable but they were not remotely as good as the real deal. I know the reason P&P toured without Jonesy was because (P&P claimed) they'd have to bill themselves as Led Zeppelin, something they were none too keen on (as well as give JPJ a hefty share of P&P bottom line profit, something else they were probably none too keen on). Saying the rhythm section of mediocre bassist Charlie Jones (Plant's son-in-law) and excellent drummer Michael Lee (R.I.P.) was technically better than the real Jones and John Bonham is absurd. It's not only wrong, mistaken and uninformed, greenman, but sacrilegious! The sacrilege comment was tongue-in-cheek. And that wimped-out orchestra was light years away from supplying the balls Bonzo and Johnny Baldwin imparted to Led Zeppelin.

[The Rover]

The P&P tours were fun maybe even great, but I have to contrast them with true Zep performances to which they do not compare. The shows with the orchestra and the shows without it when P&P went on the road as a quartet were enjoyable but they were not remotely as good as the real deal. I know the reason P&P toured without Jonesy was because (P&P claimed) they'd have to bill themselves as Led Zeppelin (as well as give JPJ a hefty share of P&P bottom line profit). Saying the rhythm section of mediocre bassist Charlie Jones (Plant's son-in-law) and excellent drummer Michael Lee (R.I.P.) was technically better than the real Jones and John Bonham is absurd. It's not only wrong, mistaken and uninformed, greenman, but sacrilegious! The sacrilege comment was tongue-in-cheek. And that wimped-out orchestra was light years away from supplying the balls Bonzo and Johnny Baldwin imparted to Led Zeppelin.

I concur with Dirigible......

I know the P&P shows were the first time for many many Zeppelin fans to ever see what they might deem as a "Led Zeppelin" show .....

But, I laugh, because the P&P show, as good as it was for those in attendance, NEVER approached the greatness and the grandeur of a performance that also included JPJ and the great amd mighty John Henry Bonham ! !

Enjoy the P&P affair all you want.... but --never-- think that you have seen something that eclipses Led Zeppelin. That never happened, and you are deluded to think that it did. I know that's a stron statement... But I want to be prefectly clear where I stand on this.

Those that never saw the mighty Zeppelin can be persuaded one way or the other.... but for those of us that saw the mighty Led Zeppelin in person, we know the difference, and it is not a subtle one.... It is HUGE by comparision.

Except for those, and there are some.... that consider the last live concert they saw by anyone.... to be the best evening of their lives.... I can't argue with such a person as that.

[Dirigible]

But, I laugh, because the P&P show, as good as it was for those in attendance, NEVER approached the greatness and the grandeur of a performance that also included JPJ and the great amd mighty John Henry Bonham ! !

Enjoy the P&P affair all you want.... but --never-- think that you have seen something that eclipses Led Zeppelin. That never happened, and you are deluded to think that it did. I know that's a stron statement... But I want to be prefectly clear where I stand on this.

Those that never saw the mighty Zeppelin can be persuaded one way or the other.... but for those of us that saw the mighty Led Zeppelin in person, we know the difference, and it is not a subtle one.... It is HUGE by comparision.

Chemistry is what Page, Plant, Bonzo & Jones had, like The Beatles before them and The Police after them. Disturb the chemistry by removing an element and replacing it with another is something else entirely.

Fair warning: two other teeth-gnashing comments that stick in curmudgeonly Dirigible's craw and will draw fire are:

1. Referring to Page, Plant, Jones & Jason Bonham as Led Zeppelin. If the four tour they should drop the Led and just call it Zeppelin; it wouldn't cost them a single ducat.

2. Or worse, referring to the P&P lineups as you-know-what. That's an heretical utterance too!

[ZeppFanForever]

Chemistry is what Page, Plant, Bonzo & Jones had, like The Beatles before them and The Police after them. Disturb the chemistry by removing an element and replacing it with another is something else entirely.

Fair warning: two other teeth-gnashing comments that stick in curmudgeonly Dirigible's craw and will draw fire are:

1. Referring to Page, Plant, Jones & Jason Bonham as Led Zeppelin. If the four tour they should drop the Led and just call it Zeppelin; it wouldn't cost them a single ducat.

2. Or worse, referring to the P&P lineups as you-know-what. That's an heretical utterance too!

How's it going "Dirigible?" I hope all is well with you. I do not want to draw fire with you but I would like to ask your opinion as to why Page, Plant, Jones & Jason Bonham cannot ever be called LED ZEPPELIN?

In my opinion, Jason Bonham is the ONLY way that LED ZEPPELIN can ever be called LED ZEPPELIN again. The great John Bonham's blood flows through his son Jason and I am just thankful that Jason chose to pay the perfect tribute to his Dad by being a Drummer. At least LED ZEPPELIN is staying loyal to John by using his son Jason thus keeping it in the family. In my opinion, I do not think that John would disapprove of LED ZEPPELIN touring with his son Jason. It is also my opinion that using a Bonham behind the drumkit, LED ZEPPELIN is paying the perfect tribute and respect to John. Now if it would have been any other drummer other than Jason, then I would have deeply questioned it. When LED ZEPPELIN reunited on 10 December 2007, in my opinion, LED ZEPPELIN was LED ZEPPELIN for one magical night only because John Bonham's own blood was representing him behind the drumkit. Thats how I truly feel. I realize that there is only one John Bonham but John Bonham trained his own blood, his own son to be a drummer in his image. Do you think that John Bonham would be proud of his son drumming in his place in LED ZEPPELIN rather than someone else that has never been in LED ZEPPELIN?

Here's something else that I would like to explain to you. I am looking at the Hit Parader magazine from January 1980 and am re-reading Lisa Robinson's article on LED ZEPPELIN's concert at KNEBWORTH on 4 August 1979. This is a very interesting article and it has loads of color pictures of the first KNEBWORTH show. On page 30, the 5th paragraph begins like this: "Drummer John "Bonzo" Bonham had been backstage nearly all of Saturday afternoon, checking out the other bands. John spoke with Lisa Robinson about performing again. The band (LED ZEPPELIN) came up on stage for a sound check. Instead of John drumming behind the drumkit, he had his eleven year old son Jason sit in for him on drums. As John stressed, Jason can play "Trampled Underfoot " perfectly. John went out in the front row and watched, it was the first time that John ever saw LED ZEPPELIN."

When I read this, it blew me away. Thats when I came up with the theory that if John was comfortable with Jason sitting in for him and believed that Jason was capable of playing with LED ZEPPELIN, then it is only fitting that Jason Bonham be the drummer for LED ZEPPELIN. Jason has a history with LED ZEPPELIN which began when he was a kid. Jason not only emulates and breathe's his father's legacy, but he breathe's LED ZEPPELIN through him because of his father. With Jason Bonham as the drummer for LED ZEPPELIN, LED ZEPPELIN lives again. I do not believe for a moment that LED ZEPPELIN and Jason Bonham are showing any disrespect towards John in any way. If anything, all four are paying the perfect tribute to John thus keeping John's memory and legacy alive.

If you are stressing that there is only one John Bonham, I agree with you, you are right. John Bonham was one of the greatest drummers that ever lived, John Bonham is irreplaceable. But we're not just talking about any other drummer here, we're talking about John Bonham's son and own blood Jason. I am just thankful that Jason chose to be a drummer like his father and gave LED ZEPPELIN a second chance in being LED ZEPPELIN again. What do you think? I am also seeing your point of view in the matter and I can understand where you are coming from. I am willing to listen to anything that you may have to say or add to this discussion. ROCK ON!

[Dirigible]

I do not want to draw fire with you but I would like to ask your opinion as to why Page, Plant, Jones & Jason Bonham cannot ever be called LED ZEPPELIN?

As John stressed, Jason can play "Trampled Underfoot " perfectly. John went out in the front row and watched, it was the first time that John ever saw LED ZEPPELIN."

If you are stressing that there is only one John Bonham, I agree with you, you are right.

Thanks for posting ZeppFanForever, you needn't worry about drawing fire from me, nor anyone else for that matter. In another thread this character kept going on and on after everyone on the thread had basically got to the truth, but some people however persist in proceeding past the point of irritation when they don't know what they're talking about. I usually blow it off and sail for friendlier waters, but sometimes...... The purpose of the forum is to exchange information, concert memories, etc. and I don't want to be an---well---you know. I learn stuff everyday here and am grateful, because I certainly don't know enough to be called any kind of expert.

Concerning the Led Zeppelin name: you pretty much summed up my feelings on Bonzo and his role in the band. If anybody belongs in that drum chair, it's Jason, no denying. Being a drummer too (click the link in my signature) I appreciated when Zep called it a day in 1980 and elected to move on. Percy said he 'didn't want to trade on the name' which I thought that was classy, very respectful. I saw Plant and Page's new bands live over the next 15 years and the audience kept shouting for Zeppelin and were disappointed when they didn't get it. After 15 years or so Page & Plant got together and gave the people what they wanted. Enough time had passed (you didn't see the guys hitting the road in 1981 playing Zep material) so the time had come, finally. I was as bad as anybody---I wanted to hear some Zep songs too. Page/Plant sold as many tickets as the name Led Zeppelin would have. Zep is an international cultural icon now so it wouldn't matter if they dropped Led from the name, the results would still be houses of the holy. That's my particular take on it, other drummers may not agree. Regardless of what name they use I selfishly hope they get back to America. Doubt Plant will be with them though.

Jason can certainly handle the gig, look who he learned from. By the way Trampled Underfoot is a fairly simple Bonzo beat as is Tangerine. I doubt Jason could've nailed In My Time of Dying when he was ten, judging from interviews I've read of him talking about his dad. Songs like Rock and Roll require a driving forceful energy, Communication Breakdown demands some spot-on timing, The Ocean slips in and out of an odd time signature, Nobody's Fault But Mine and No Quarter has Bonzo playing on the 'and' of some of the beats, which creates funk. Those are a few examples. Zeppelin were not gods and most accomplished musicians can play their songs without any problems.

Beginning drummers are taught to play solidly on the beat without rushing or dragging. A veteran drummer knows what NOT to play if that makes sense, it's easy to clutter any song with excessive drumming. There are nuances like playing ahead of the beat like Stewart Copeland in The Police; playing behind the beat like Phil Rudd in AC/DC; and Charlie Watts of the Stones is very much in the middle of the beat meaning he's dead on it (Gimme Shelter is an example). Bonzo was a behind the beat drummer, it's easy to hear that Phil Rudd listened to Bonham very carefully! For some reason a lot of drummers don't understand Bonzo's technique, make no mistake Jason does! But it is still isn't the same. Terry Bozzio of Missing Persons summed it up best: "Bonham could drag the time in such a way like no other drummer could and it's that quality that made Zeppelin great." Jonesy was responsible for part of that as well. Plant said there was so much 'sex' in his drumming, which doesn't give away much but Percy's fond of metaphors.

There are some very fast Zeppelin tunes---but most of them are mid-tempo. That's about 80-90 beats per minute and that tempo is conducive of letting the music breathe like a fine wine. Some drummers are just beer, y'know. Hope that answers your questions, my friend.

[Sibh23]

Like the Ocean, I too was at that concert the night Plant's shirt caught fire. Here I came all the way from upstate NY and was terrified they would walk off stage but thankfully the show went on and it was great. According to my recollection the bottle rocket was blown off exactly at the start of the concert during the first few chords of "the Song Remains the Same" which they opened with. Unreal.

That was at May 30th Landover Maryland, I believe it happened toward either the end of Nobody's Fault But Mine or immediately after it, what's ironic is that after that the band proceeds to give one of the very best shows of the year, stepping on the heels of the classic LA shows. There's a picture of Plant undressed at this gig, it's in Black & White, but I can't find it.

Page got hit on the hand with an M80 (firecracker) at one 1977 gig and the band had to stop the show for a few minutes. CREEM published a photo of a bunch of people gathered around Jim looking at his hand. Dodging frisbees onstage is one thing, but glass bottles and fireworks is another altogether. BANG!! Bet that straightened Pagey right up!

June 14th New York, this one was actually more severe than on May 30th, he was taken off stage for some time, bandaged and then proceeded to play Rock & Roll as an encore, not sure when or how this happened in the concert.

[nirvana]

1977 Tour....Thunder, Lightning, and the Hammer of the Gods...yes/no?

[eternal light]

I attended Led Zeppelin's concert in Los Angeles on June 23, 1977.

If anyone tells you that it was a bad show you have my blessing and permission to laugh at their words.

Just remember, they only say that because they were not there.

When you hear the audience cheer that tells you it was excellent.

[ZeppFanForever]

Thanks for posting ZeppFanForever, you needn't worry about drawing fire from me, nor anyone else for that matter. In another thread this character kept going on and on after everyone on the thread had basically got to the truth, but some people however persist in proceeding past the point of irritation when they don't know what they're talking about. I usually blow it off and sail for friendlier waters, but sometimes...... The purpose of the forum is to exchange information, concert memories, etc. and I don't want to be an---well---you know. I learn stuff everyday here and am grateful, because I certainly don't know enough to be called any kind of expert.

Concerning the Led Zeppelin name: you pretty much summed up my feelings on Bonzo and his role in the band. If anybody belongs in that drum chair, it's Jason, no denying. Being a drummer too (click the link in my signature) I appreciated when Zep called it a day in 1980 and elected to move on. Percy said he 'didn't want to trade on the name' which I thought that was classy, very respectful. I saw Plant and Page's new bands live over the next 15 years and the audience kept shouting for Zeppelin and were disappointed when they didn't get it. After 15 years or so Page & Plant got together and gave the people what they wanted. Enough time had passed (you didn't see the guys hitting the road in 1981 playing Zep material) so the time had come, finally. I was as bad as anybody---I wanted to hear some Zep songs too. Page/Plant sold as many tickets as the name Led Zeppelin would have. Zep is an international cultural icon now so it wouldn't matter if they dropped Led from the name, the results would still be houses of the holy. That's my particular take on it, other drummers may not agree. Regardless of what name they use I selfishly hope they get back to America. Doubt Plant will be with them though.

Jason can certainly handle the gig, look who he learned from. By the way Trampled Underfoot is a fairly simple Bonzo beat as is Tangerine. I doubt Jason could've nailed In My Time of Dying when he was ten, judging from interviews I've read of him talking about his dad. Songs like Rock and Roll require a driving forceful energy, Communication Breakdown demands some spot-on timing, The Ocean slips in and out of an odd time signature, Nobody's Fault But Mine and No Quarter has Bonzo playing on the 'and' of some of the beats, which creates funk. Those are a few examples. Zeppelin were not gods and most accomplished musicians can play their songs without any problems.

Beginning drummers are taught to play solidly on the beat without rushing or dragging. A veteran drummer knows what NOT to play if that makes sense, it's easy to clutter any song with excessive drumming. There are nuances like playing ahead of the beat like Stewart Copeland in The Police; playing behind the beat like Phil Rudd in AC/DC; and Charlie Watts of the Stones is very much in the middle of the beat meaning he's dead on it (Gimme Shelter is an example). Bonzo was a behind the beat drummer, it's easy to hear that Phil Rudd listened to Bonham very carefully! For some reason a lot of drummers don't understand Bonzo's technique, make no mistake Jason does! But it is still isn't the same. Terry Bozzio of Missing Persons summed it up best: "Bonham could drag the time in such a way like no other drummer could and it's that quality that made Zeppelin great." Jonesy was responsible for part of that as well. Plant said there was so much 'sex' in his drumming, which doesn't give away much but Percy's fond of metaphors.

There are some very fast Zeppelin tunes---but most of them are mid-tempo. That's about 80-90 beats per minute and that tempo is conducive of letting the music breathe like a fine wine. Some drummers are just beer, y'know. Hope that answers your questions, my friend.

How's it going "Dirigible?" Thank you for posting your answer to my question perfectly. I can really see your point of view as to why Bonzo is truly irreplaceable. That really makes me realize just how special and unique that Bonzo really was. In reality, Bonzo was always the backbone behind LED ZEPPELIN wasn't he? When Bonzo passed on into immortality in 1980, he took LED ZEPPELIN with him.

I was just reading through the book "LED ZEPPELIN, THE FINAL ACCLAIM" which is written and compiled by Dave Lewis. I just can't get over the fact that Jason was drumming in LED ZEPPELIN during the KNEBWORTH rehearsals in 1979. On page 125 of "LED ZEPPELIN, THE FINAL ACCLAIM," paragraph 8, it states the following: "One of John's greatest ambitions was to see his son Jason, a formidible drummer himself, on stage performing with ZEPPELIN (Now I can see where you got the band name ZEPPELIN for the new line-up which includes Jason.). This was finally realised when ZEPPELIN came on stage to do a sound check at KNEBWORTH just prior to the August 4th show. The 11-year-old Jason sat in for his Dad on "Trampled Underfoot." Bonzo went out front to watch and commented proudly: "It is the first time I ever saw LED ZEPPELIN!" WOW!

To sum this discussion up, in a good way, a good friend of mine who is also a fellow die hard hard core ZEPPELIN fan like all of us pretty much said it best: "Seeing Jason sitting behind the drum kit and drumming in his Dad's band, in his father's place, is the best tribute that any son could ever pay to his father. Seeing Jason pounding away on the drums is like looking at the ghost of John Henry Bonham drumming with him. You know what, its true! John Bonham's spirit lives through his own son Jason, it doesn't get much better than that does it? ROCK ON my friend!

[greenman]

I don't mean to keep butting heads with you, greenman, because you make so much sense about certain elements of the 1977 tour. As I stated earlier I won't argue with you however you posted another statement I so vehemently disagree with that I'm grinding my bloody teeth. To quote Communication Breakdown, 'it drives me INSAAAAAANE!' So here goes.........

The P&P tours were fun maybe even great, but I have to contrast them with true Zep performances to which they do not compare. The shows with the orchestra and the shows without it when P&P went on the road as a quartet were enjoyable but they were not remotely as good as the real deal. I know the reason P&P toured without Jonesy was because (P&P claimed) they'd have to bill themselves as Led Zeppelin, something they were none too keen on (as well as give JPJ a hefty share of P&P bottom line profit, something else they were probably none too keen on). Saying the rhythm section of mediocre bassist Charlie Jones (Plant's son-in-law) and excellent drummer Michael Lee (R.I.P.) was technically better than the real Jones and John Bonham is absurd. It's not only wrong, mistaken and uninformed, greenman, but sacrilegious! The sacrilege comment was tongue-in-cheek. And that wimped-out orchestra was light years away from supplying the balls Bonzo and Johnny Baldwin imparted to Led Zeppelin.

I was reffering to Page and Plants performances(more specifically Pages) rather than the whole band although mistake wise Lee didnt have the off shows Bonham did in 77. When people criticize the 77 tour they generally look to the mistakes made by those three but as I said I'll take the much higher energy performances with more improvisation of that year ahead of the largely mistake free but more layed back and "polite" P&P shows.

My point was that its easy to get into the habit of just looking for negatives when reviewing boots/performances without considering that a clean "perfect" show is not what the band was aiming for. At there very best they good deliver both but for most of there career it seemed to me they valued energy and spontaneity over lack of mistakes.

[Dirigible]

I was reffering to Page and Plants performances(more specifically Pages) rather than the whole band although mistake wise Lee didnt have the off shows Bonham did in 77.

Hey, everybody gather round, greenman just said Michael Lee is a better drummer than John Bonham, don't hurt him too bad.

Isn't it a shame when cousins marry?

I know you're just trying to start some shit, greenhorn, but I ain't taking the bait. I retract that comment I posted that sometimes you make sense. Nobody's going to take you seriously when you shoot your mouth off like that up in heah. Any cred you had, if you ever had any, is history. You might want to consider other forums than Led Zeppelin that are more your speed, like Hannah Montana or New Kids On The Block, because you know less than zero about musicianship, cowboy.

If you'd said Lee was better than Bonzo to my guitarist, greenie, you'd be looking at the ceiling. Crikey, boy, what were you thinking? Whoops, did I just infer you knew how to think? You risk severe embarrassment should you post on this thread again, homey. Hear that? The crowds' getting restless, I see torches and pitchforks.

No pushing and shoving in line, folks, I ask everybody to remain calm and please restrict themselves to just one flame apiece. Rover, get those goddamn Rottweilers out of here!

[Rock Action]

I attended Led Zeppelin's concert in Los Angeles on June 23, 1977.

If anyone tells you that it was a bad show you have my blessing and permission to laugh at their words.

Just remember, they only say that because they were not there.

When you hear the audience cheer that tells you it was excellent.

I repeat- DAMN YOU.

This is my favorite concert by anyone, anytime. I'm just lucky to have the boot. (including an original Dragonfly LP set!) I'd have given up a testicle to be at this one.

And: what's this Bonham vs. Lee crap???

Bonzo was the best ever. Period. But Lee was the only man worthy to play Bonzo's material at the time. And there you have it.

(No offense to Jason! But he just wasn't ready yet at the time.)

[JimmyPageZoSo56]

Fact: Our Ledded ones NEVER did a half-assed tour.

Fact: The 1977 shows kicked ass. Period, fini, game over.

Question: Is there anyone reading who saw the band perform in 1977 and thought the show sucked? I doubt it very much, but if you did I respect your opinion.

"You just had to have been there." I like Zep books and bootlegs as much as anybody, but let's get real here and be serious. Those individuals who never saw the band can only envision them vicariously through said books and bootlegs.

Your fact is an opinion and yea, I concur that you had to be there. You can't get the energy and stuff by listening to a bootleg. They may sound sloppy on the boot but were actually really good live.

[moffo]

Hey, everybody gather round, greenman just said Michael Lee is a better drummer than John Bonham, don't hurt him too bad.

Isn't it a shame when cousins marry?

I know you're just trying to start some shit, greenhorn, but I ain't taking the bait. I retract that comment I posted that sometimes you make sense. Nobody's going to take you seriously when you shoot your mouth off like that up in heah. Any cred you had, if you ever had any, is history. You might want to consider other forums than Led Zeppelin that are more your speed, like Hannah Montana or New Kids On The Block, because you know less than zero about musicianship, cowboy.

If you'd said Lee was better than Bonzo to my guitarist, greenie, you'd be looking at the ceiling. Crikey, boy, what were you thinking? Whoops, did I just infer you knew how to think? You risk severe embarrassment should you post on this thread again, homey. Hear that? The crowds' getting restless, I see torches and pitchforks.

No pushing and shoving in line, folks, I ask everybody to remain calm and please restrict themselves to just one flame apiece. Rover, get those goddamn Rottweilers out of here!

FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT........

[Dirigible]

I repeat- DAMN YOU.

This is my favorite concert by anyone, anytime. I'm just lucky to have the boot. (including an original Dragonfly LP set!) I'd have given up a testicle to be at this one.

And: what's this Bonham vs. Lee crap???

Bonzo was the best ever. Period. But Lee was the only man worthy to play Bonzo's material at the time. And there you have it.

(No offense to Jason! But he just wasn't ready yet at the time.)

Duuuuuude! That's a lot to sacrifice for one concert, you might bump into Lori Maddox one of these days, even if she is over 50 now.

Bonham vs. Lee IS crap, a serious delusion. Michael could play in 6 very well; SINCE I'VE LOVING YOU was the best Zeppelin tune he played, his ROCK AND ROLL disappointed me though. Jason is the man for the job now. Wonder how much Bonzo practiced alone at home? I could see the growth in his style as time went on, particularly from '75 to '77. In March '73 he was just sick; his '77 chops were a new stride forward in technique as well.

I know the Purdie shuffle (Bernard called me on my cellphone one day, long story) but I can't play FOOL IN THE RAIN very well. I wonder if Purdie and Bonham met? Somebody asked Buddy Rich in an interview what he thought of Bonzo, Buddy sat down and played some Bonham licks and sneered, "That ain't hard!" Buddy disregarded the fact he himself was one of the greatest drummers to ever pick up a pair of sticks. Personally, I think the 4 Bs are indispensible in drumming: Bonzo, Buddy, Bozzio & Bernard. Simon and Vinnie are dangerous too. I'm interested in what kind of drums you play, Rock Action, pedal(s), etc. If you're so inclined, please PM me.

[Dirigible]

FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT........

Am I having a flashback or is it just a keen sense of dé·jà vu?

Is your avatar a picture of you, moffo, and, if so, do you play tenor?

[moffo]

Am I having a flashback or is it just a keen sense of dé·jà vu?

Is your avatar a picture of you, moffo, and, if so, do you play tenor?

Just thougt the thread needed lightening up, it was getting a bit tense there for a minute...

As for my avatar, unfortunately I don't look like the great Mr. Page in his hey day and can't play any sort of guitar, nevermind a doubleneck...!!

[danelectro]

Some, not all, of those among us who never saw Led Zeppelin in concert are habitually slagging this tour and that show judging either solely from bootlegs, or the questionable opinions of writers of books/magazine articles, or both.

Why stop there? Apply this to Presence, In Through The Out Door, CODA, The Song Remains The Same (the Film) and any other Zep related thing that you are told not to like. Far too many fans are guilty of letting someone or something else decide what's good and bad for them. This isn't unique to Led Zeppelin or even unique to music, someone is always telling us how to think.

Anyway I've been saying similar stuff for years about the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus. For years people have been saying it's flawed, then bam it gets released and voila classic Stones in all their glory. So what if they were out of tune or a member(s) was blasted on drugs. Isn't that par for the course for the Stones? Same thing could be said about Zep at anytime of their career. It's rock and roll not opera. It's not supposed to be clean and proper, it's the music of rebellion.

[Dirigible]

Just thougt the thread needed lightening up, it was getting a bit tense there for a minute...

As for my avatar, unfortunately I don't look like the great Mr. Page in his hey day and can't play any sort of guitar, nevermind a doubleneck...!!

I'm suitably embarrassed, moffo. Time to get the eyeglasses prescription refilled (when I manage to stop laughing).

Meanwhile back in 1977: a lot of mentions of Badgeholders 6-23-77 has been going on, and rightly so. In the timeline is a great story by the girl who painstakingly made the black jacket Page wore during the encore. She took it to the Forum a few days before the '77 shows and asked a person who worked there if the jacket could be given to Jimmy. She mentioned she had a ticket for the momentous third night. Although a little disappointed Page wore his white togs that night, she was dead chuffed when Pagey appeared onstage prior to Rock and Roll wearing her jacket. According to her he walked up and down the length of the stage showing off the jacket, even turning his back to the audience so they could get a good look at it before strapping on his Gibson. She was, of course, thrilled and enjoyed hero status among her friends who attended the concert with her.

If she's reading this I hope she will kindly grace us with a few more details here. Her tale says a lot about the thoughtful James Patrick Page, guitar hero and human being.

[kirchzep27]

Why stop there? Apply this to Presence, In Through The Out Door, CODA, The Song Remains The Same (the Film) and any other Zep related thing that you are told not to like. Far too many fans are guilty of letting someone or something else decide what's good and bad for them. This isn't unique to Led Zeppelin or even unique to music, someone is always telling us how to think.

Anyway I've been saying similar stuff for years about the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus. For years people have been saying it's flawed, then bam it gets released and voila classic Stones in all their glory. So what if they were out of tune or a member(s) was blasted on drugs. Isn't that par for the course for the Stones? Same thing could be said about Zep at anytime of their career. It's rock and roll not opera. It's not supposed to be clean and proper, it's the music of rebellion.

This is sorta what i was thinking. The tour was for the -presence record, a record full of real appreciation for life at that particular time. Wtih -achilles, nobodys fault, tea for one, you have joy, sorrow, acceptance, struggle and whatever else going on. They were living those songs, just like any real artist lives what they are creating. I've heard a few of the bad bootlegs and i understand how the shows must have been much different live, because of the difference between live recordings and hearing music live. As it was said, its always too easy to look back and point out the negative. i appreciate the fact that they had went for such a great concept for that tour, with the line up of songs and acoustic set...they must have been thinking, -how can they not tour at that point?

[Dirigible]

Why stop there? Apply this to Presence, In Through The Out Door, CODA, The Song Remains The Same (the Film) and any other Zep related thing that you are told not to like. Far too many fans are guilty of letting someone or something else decide what's good and bad for them. This isn't unique to Led Zeppelin or even unique to music, someone is always telling us how to think.

Anyway I've been saying similar stuff for years about the Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus. For years people have been saying it's flawed, then bam it gets released and voila classic Stones in all their glory. So what if they were out of tune or a member(s) was blasted on drugs. Isn't that par for the course for the Stones? Same thing could be said about Zep at anytime of their career. It's rock and roll not opera. It's not supposed to be clean and proper, it's the music of rebellion.

Yer Blues, Song for Jeffrey with southpaw Tony Iommi (albeit dubbed over), A Quick One While He's Away and Parachute Woman. Who could ask for more? I know what the answer will be, except Led Zeppelin turned down the offer to appear and The Who got the slot.

As the sage and wise danelectro says: Far too many fans are guilty of letting someone or something else decide what's good and bad for them. This isn't unique to Led Zeppelin or even unique to music, someone is always telling us how to think. You just distilled the entire essence and point of this thread, dan, merci beaucoups. It is the most important of life's lessons, my friends; observe, listen, keep your friends close, your enemies closer and make up your own mind, this applies to your teachers and especially your government. I'd keep an eye on that Dirigible feller too.

[kirchzep27]

I think -page's playing reflected where he was at with the previous album. The first -led zep related shows i saw were -plant in 88 and page in 88, they both had great shows which reflected where they were at, at that time. In regards to -presence and the 77 tour, to listen to -achilles last stand live, its seems like a great representation of what he came up with and wanted to play live. Its created for a band to play, -led zeppelin...they must have been just high on their chemistry at that point. In regards to -page's playing back in 77, maybe -page took on too much live material for that particular time, but thats just retrospective. I dont know, but even with some mess ups here and there, i still love hearing the improv moments with page and bonham.

[reswati]

Dirigible (drums & vocals)

Semi Page (guitar) Steve Walters (bass)

Just saw your video....drumming and singing, holy frack how do you do that?

Very cool!