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On 9/12/2020 at 8:18 AM, John M said:

I never got to see this on the big screen.  Amazing film.  Burton and Eastwood.

 

Thayer David is in this, who starred in Dark Shadows as the caretaker and many other roles in the series, and in Rocky and The Werewolf of Washington a B horror movie that starred Dean Stockwell.

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On 9/10/2020 at 4:31 PM, kipper said:

YES!  Shot near Lone Pine California in the "Alabama Hills".  If you are ever that way you have to check out the film museum in Lone Pine. Strider has been there several times too, great little museum. 

Alabama Hills, Lone Pine, Owens River (Hot Creek)  are all iconic filming locations which made a western seem so much more dramatic with the interesting views and backgrounds.  A favorite of mine filmed in the Owens Valley was "Nevada Smith" with the king of cool Steve McQueen.

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I haven’t seen this movie since a was a little boy, I need to get it.

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12 hours ago, redrum said:

😄 I missed that one. I did see them filming some of it on 6th & Mission Sts. in SF with Michael Douglas.

Is this a pedophile's dream movie?

Matt Walsh on Twitter: "Netflix has a movie called “Cuties” about 11 year  olds in a twerking dance group. Some of the reviews claim it's a  “commentary” on the sexualization of children

This is a tough one because the movie is not what most people are thinking it is. The movie (French) is actually calling out the hyper-sexualization of children, that is the whole point of the movie. The movie juxtaposes the opening environment of the protagonist (Amy, a Senegalese Muslim) and Amy instead choosing the overt sexualization of a dance group called the Cuties. She then takes the already sick premise and pushes it even further before realizing the hyper-sexualization of the Cuties is just as much wrong as her strict and hypocritical upbringing and leaves the group and again returns to a natural childhood.

However, this is one of those the ends justify the means movies in that to get where it is going it still has to do exactly what it is rallying against and films young girls in an overtly provocative manner. They could have filmed this movie using innuendo and reference without actually showing these girls in such an inappropriate manner.

With all the backlash it is getting I doubt Netflix will air this in the US and rightfully so. The movie is a great idea and a much needed one at that, but the execution is abysmal and so, so wrong.

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On 9/11/2020 at 12:43 AM, redrum said:

Had to watch The Sand Pebbles again. It really is a sad movie.

Steve in Sand Pebbles | Steve mcqueen, Steve mcqueen movies, Actor steve  mcqueen

Great film, and tragic story. I watch it over again at least a couple of times per year.  Hollywood no longer has the guts to make great films like these. Today everything is about robots, explosions,  titties and other over the top CGI scenes made to titillate the sensibilities of people who's attention span for details or deeper thought are limited to the attention span of someone who gets most of their political or cultural content from a twitter feed.  Most audiences today would be bored by a film like The Sand Pebbles, Lawrence of Arabia, Dr. Zhivago, From Here to Eternity, or In the Heat of the Night. Many young people sadly today have zero exposure to great cinema---same way all of their music is CRAP.

Here is a really good synopsis of the film (two parts)

 

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12 hours ago, redrum said:

Finishing this up tonight. That's a BAR McQueen is holding.

The Sand Pebbles (1966) - Movie Review / Film Essay

 

Hey Red,

Being that you are a bit of a 'gear head' you might enjoy this. If you are ever in Los Angeles look up the naval museum Lane Victory moored down in San Pedro. The ship is a restored and operating WW2 merchant cargo ship (Victory class). It is a floating museum, it even does a few day excursions each year.  The ship is staffed with docents who were U.S. sailors who served--- a few going back to WW2, but sadly those now are nearly all gone. 

Of particular interest is the actual steam engine used in the making of The Sand Pebbles on display in one of the ship's cargo holds.  Fox pictures acquired the engine from a marine scrap company; the engine I believe used to be in a whaling ship. The engine was then rigged up in the Fox pictures soundstage for the scenes in the film.  After the film someone aquired the engine who lived in San Diego and then for 30 years it just sat in his backyard until he donated it to the Lane Victory museum where it has been restored and on display. And it actually operates. Not on steam, but electricity, and for demonstration. 

One of my favorite scenes in the Sand Pebbles was Jake Holeman (McQueen) trying to teach his "coolie" apprentice (played by Mako) how a "triple expansion" steam ("stim" in pidgen English/Chinese) engine works. 

 

This video of the Lane Victory engine room (no association to the Sand Pebbles engine)

While on the topic, here is another video of an actual triple expansion operating steam engine from an English maritime floating museum.  Glad there are still dedicated men who lovingly restore, operate, and display these wonderful pieces of history.

 

 

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13 hours ago, redrum said:

😄 I missed that one. I did see them filming some of it on 6th & Mission Sts. in SF with Michael Douglas.

Is this a pedophile's dream movie?

Matt Walsh on Twitter: "Netflix has a movie called “Cuties” about 11 year  olds in a twerking dance group. Some of the reviews claim it's a  “commentary” on the sexualization of children

 

1 hour ago, Mr.Bones said:

This is a tough one because the movie is not what most people are thinking it is. The movie (French) is actually calling out the hyper-sexualization of children, that is the whole point of the movie. The movie juxtaposes the opening environment of the protagonist (Amy, a Senegalese Muslim) and Amy instead choosing the overt sexualization of a dance group called the Cuties. She then takes the already sick premise and pushes it even further before realizing the hyper-sexualization of the Cuties is just as much wrong as her strict and hypocritical upbringing and leaves the group and again returns to a natural childhood.

However, this is one of those the ends justify the means movies in that to get where it is going it still has to do exactly what it is rallying against and films young girls in an overtly provocative manner. They could have filmed this movie using innuendo and reference without actually showing these girls in such an inappropriate manner.

With all the backlash it is getting I doubt Netflix will air this in the US and rightfully so. The movie is a great idea and a much needed one at that, but the execution is abysmal and so, so wrong.

Reminds me of the sicko kid beauty contests that have been going on for a long time. The kind that got Jon Boney Ramsey killed.

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1 hour ago, Strider said:

 

Reminds me of the sicko kid beauty contests that have been going on for a long time. The kind that got Jon Boney Ramsey killed.

That’s exactly what I was thinking the Jon Bennett Ramsey case, this is the kind of shit the pedos love.

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On 9/10/2020 at 1:37 PM, Strider said:

Natch. I'm going roughly in chronological order. I have completed all her years from 1947-1952. I just started the year 1953 this morning with "Titanic".

lf.jpeg.d8828652baca853688f27ec1842b6392.jpeg

And then for comparison's sake, decided to watch "A Night to Remember" from 1958 (with the recently departed Honor Blackman). A Titanic battle between Hollywood vs. Britain.

H0132-L177527550.thumb.jpg.4e98259f20ffd9c9ca9256785ccddf7e.jpg

 

So how did you like the English version as compared to the American "Hollywood" version of the Titanic story?

Warning, I will probably ramble on a bit here, but I think the Titanic is a great movie theme to discuss.

I personally prefer "A Night to Remember" due it being the closest to historically accurate of all attempts at telling that story. The '53 Hollywood version was far too "dramatized" compared to the English version, and I believe that is because in the English version they were content to make a film FOR the English movie goer in the style of a British historical drama and they made no bones about it. In the English version they were not influenced by Hollywood studio moguls to spice up the telling of the disaster, the Titanic story itself was already dramatic enough.

What I never understood with the American Titanic films---and especially the more recent one with by James Cameron, is why  on Earth did they feel the need to add so many fictional dramatic components to this tale?  The true historical Titanic story if you were writing it as a fictional novel already has so many things in it which are already dramatic enough.  Maiden voyage, largest and fastest steam liner ever made, a serious of failures any one of which that had not have occurred may have resulted in a less tragic result including the nearest ship close enough to been able to save everyone single person on the Titanic and RIGHT IN VIEW of the Titanic--- turned off their wireless radio early and didn't receive the SOS calls. And then beyond that thought the signal rockets were celebration rockets.  Then the social component of how steerage class passengers were for too many minutes not allowed to move up the 1st class decks where the lifeboats were, and then so many lifeboats allowed to leave with many open seats available.

You can't write a more dramatic story than what was already factual, so why add more stuff to it? Compare a film like Cameron's Titanic to the film "From Here to Eternity" which was a film set in the days just prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and 100% fictional. If you are going to set a fictional tale within the framework of an actual historical event, then only FRAME it inside of that event and don't encroach into the history by adding anything to the context that doesn't belong there. That is exactly how "From Here to Eternity" handled that historic event and you are left with a very interesting drama INSIDE the real life event. Which is what was done in "The Sand Pebbles" too BTW.  In both of those dramas the historical event could have been fabricated too, and it wouldn't matter to the telling of the story.

I guess my gripe on this being a movie fan AND a fan of history, is that when Hollywood goes too far with historical dramas and makes too much shit up, then lots of stupid people end up believing that the Hollywood version is actually the history too. Films like JFK, Pearl Harbor, 300, Braveheart, Marie Antoinette, The Battle of the Bulge, The Patriot, and  Titanic (1997) may be be entertaining, but they go far beyond creative license when it comes to dealing with the facts. Some facts you just need to respect enough to leave them alone. Especially if you owe any respect to the many who died in these real events.

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On 9/13/2020 at 1:22 PM, kipper said:

So how did you like the English version as compared to the American "Hollywood" version of the Titanic story?

Warning, I will probably ramble on a bit here, but I think the Titanic is a great movie theme to discuss.

I personally prefer "A Night to Remember" due it being the closest to historically accurate of all attempts at telling that story. The '53 Hollywood version was far too "dramatized" compared to the English version, and I believe that is because in the English version they were content to make a film FOR the English movie goer in the style of a British historical drama and they made no bones about it. In the English version they were not influenced by Hollywood studio moguls to spice up the telling of the disaster, the Titanic story itself was already dramatic enough.

What I never understood with the American Titanic films---and especially the more recent one with by James Cameron, is why  on Earth did they feel the need to add so many fictional dramatic components to this tale?  The true historical Titanic story if you were writing it as a fictional novel already has so many things in it which are already dramatic enough.  Maiden voyage, largest and fastest steam liner ever made, a serious of failures any one of which that had not have occurred may have resulted in a less tragic result including the nearest ship close enough to been able to save everyone single person on the Titanic and RIGHT IN VIEW of the Titanic--- turned off their wireless radio early and didn't receive the SOS calls. And then beyond that thought the signal rockets were celebration rockets.  Then the social component of how steerage class passengers were for too many minutes not allowed to move up the 1st class decks where the lifeboats were, and then so many lifeboats allowed to leave with many open seats available.

You can't write a more dramatic story than what was already factual, so why add more stuff to it? Compare a film like Cameron's Titanic to the film "From Here to Eternity" which was a film set in the days just prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor and 100% fictional. If you are going to set a fictional tale within the framework of an actual historical event, then only FRAME it inside of that event and don't encroach into the history by adding anything to the context that doesn't belong there. That is exactly how "From Here to Eternity" handled that historic event and you are left with a very interesting drama INSIDE the real life event. Which is what was done in "The Sand Pebbles" too BTW.  In both of those dramas the historical event could have been fabricated too, and it wouldn't matter to the telling of the story.

I guess my gripe on this being a movie fan AND a fan of history, is that when Hollywood goes too far with historical dramas and makes too much shit up, then lots of stupid people end up believing that the Hollywood version is actually the history too. Films like JFK, Pearl Harbor, 300, Braveheart, Marie Antoinette, The Battle of the Bulge, The Patriot, and  Titanic (1997) may be be entertaining, but they go far beyond creative license when it comes to dealing with the facts. Some facts you just need to respect enough to leave them alone. Especially if you owe any respect to the many who died in these real events.

As with most rotten things in the world, blame the Nazis.

However, first let me state for the record that of course I preferred the British "A Night to Remember" to the American "Titanic" (both 1953 and 1997 versions). "A Night to Remember" had better cinematography, better music, better characters (they had the unsinkable Margaret "Molly" Brown while 1953's "Titanic" stupidly did not), better ship models, better history.

A stickler for historical accuracy might quibble with the fact that the movie shows the ship sinking intact instead of splitting in two. But, in fairness, when Walter Lord wrote the book "A Night to Remember" and the film was made, there was still some doubt over whether the Titanic split in half or not.

I love Barbara Stanwyck but she, and many others, were wasted on the silly soap opera antics of the American "Titanic".

Which brings me to the Nazis.

The history of Titanic movies is long, and that's not counting the numerous television movies and episodes about the Titanic...including a Twilight Zone episode.

The RMS Titanic sank in April 14, 1912. A month later, a film written by and starring Titanic survivor Dorothy Gibson premiered. It was called "Saved from the Titanic" and is a lost silent film, no prints surviving a studio fire.

640px-Saved_from_the_Titanic_advert_1912_simulated_color.jpg.28a5adbb502d02c9d321d19145f93cad.jpg

Two other short silent films were made in 1912 about the Titanic. France made "La hantise" directed by Louis Feuillade. Germany made "In Nacht und Eis" directed by Mime Misu.

In_Nacht_und_Eis.jpg.ea63aa402d3cf0b7efd1be1d72b93ba9.jpg

These were short films and mainly focused on the sinking of the Titanic using eyewitness testimony and official records. "Atlantic" followed In 1929 In four different versions: English, French, German, and silent. 

In 1943, Joseph Goebbels commissioned a movie on the Titanic to illustrate the superiority of Nazi filmmaking and to lay the blame of the Titanic disaster on British and American capitalism. The film invented a fictional German officer on board the Titanic who alone saw the danger and was selfless and heroic.

In this sense, kipper, Goebbels' "Titanic" is the father of the modern Titanic movie we love to hate. The Nazi "Titanic" was the first movie to use the simple title "Titanic" and it was the first movie to create fictional characters and subplots and mix them with the historical events, thereby creating the template used by most filmmakers since.

The original director Herbert Selpin was arrested during filming for anti-Nazi statements. His replacement was never credited. Selpin was later found hung in his jail cell and his murder was framed by the Gestapo as a suicide.

After the movie was finished it gets weirder still. Goebbels decided that the movie would actually weaken German morale instead of boosting it, and therefore banned it from playing inside Germany. But it was shown outside Germany in German-occupied countries in Europe for a brief run in November 1943. Until Goebbels banned the film entirely and all prints pulled. It still ranks as one of the most costly failures in German history...and at a time when money was scarce and could have been put to more productive use.

After WWII various censored prints popped up in the Soviet Union and Europe. It wasn't until 2005 that Kino released a restored uncensored print on home video. A blu-ray followed in 2017 but here's the catch...you can only get the uncensored film on dvd in North America.failures

FYI: "A Night to Remember" used a couple of shots of the engine room flooding from the 1943 "Titanic".

pl_titanic_alt.jpg.bddb100e140820e477dc98f93355693d.jpg

 

Edited by Strider
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On 9/13/2020 at 10:23 AM, kipper said:

Hey Red,

Being that you are a bit of a 'gear head' you might enjoy this. If you are ever in Los Angeles look up the naval museum Lane Victory moored down in San Pedro. The ship is a restored and operating WW2 merchant cargo ship (Victory class). It is a floating museum, it even does a few day excursions each year.  The ship is staffed with docents who were U.S. sailors who served--- a few going back to WW2, but sadly those now are nearly all gone. 

Of particular interest is the actual steam engine used in the making of The Sand Pebbles on display in one of the ship's cargo holds.  Fox pictures acquired the engine from a marine scrap company; the engine I believe used to be in a whaling ship. The engine was then rigged up in the Fox pictures soundstage for the scenes in the film.  After the film someone aquired the engine who lived in San Diego and then for 30 years it just sat in his backyard until he donated it to the Lane Victory museum where it has been restored and on display. And it actually operates. Not on steam, but electricity, and for demonstration. 

One of my favorite scenes in the Sand Pebbles was Jake Holeman (McQueen) trying to teach his "coolie" apprentice (played by Mako) how a "triple expansion" steam ("stim" in pidgen English/Chinese) engine works. 

 

This video of the Lane Victory engine room (no association to the Sand Pebbles engine)

While on the topic, here is another video of an actual triple expansion operating steam engine from an English maritime floating museum.  Glad there are still dedicated men who lovingly restore, operate, and display these wonderful pieces of history.

 

 

That's great stuff. I always loved the old steam engines at the fair. I could watch them for hours.

A triple-expansion engine is a compound engine that expands the steam in three stages—i.e. an engine with three cylinders at three different pressures. A quadruple-expansion engine expands the steam in four stages, and so on.

The USS PAMPANITO sub in SF interior.

https://maritime.org/tour/img/atr/atr.jpg

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On 9/14/2020 at 9:52 PM, Strider said:

As with most rotten things in the world, blame the Nazis.

However, first let me state for the record that of course I preferred the British "A Night to Remember" to the American "Titanic" (both 1953 and 1997 versions). "A Night to Remember" had better cinematography, better music, better characters (they had the unsinkable Margaret "Molly" Brown while 1953's "Titanic" stupidly did not), better ship models, better history.

A stickler for historical accuracy might quibble with the fact that the movie shows the ship sinking intact instead of splitting in two. But, in fairness, when Walter Lord wrote the book "A Night to Remember" and the film was made, there was still some doubt over whether the Titanic split in half or not.

I love Barbara Stanwyck but she, and many others, were wasted on the silly soap opera antics of the American "Titanic".

Which brings me to the Nazis.

The history of Titanic movies is long, and that's not counting the numerous television movies and episodes about the Titanic...including a Twilight Zone episode.

The RMS Titanic sank in April 14, 1912. A month later, a film written by and starring Titanic survivor Dorothy Gibson premiered. It was called "Saved from the Titanic" and is a lost silent film, no prints surviving a studio fire.

640px-Saved_from_the_Titanic_advert_1912_simulated_color.jpg.28a5adbb502d02c9d321d19145f93cad.jpg

Two other short silent films were made in 1912 about the Titanic. France made "La hantise" directed by Louis Feuillade. Germany made "In Nacht und Eis" directed by Mime Misu.

In_Nacht_und_Eis.jpg.ea63aa402d3cf0b7efd1be1d72b93ba9.jpg

These were short films and mainly focused on the sinking of the Titanic using eyewitness testimony and official records. "Atlantic" followed In 1929 In four different versions: English, French, German, and silent. 

In 1943, Joseph Goebbels commissioned a movie on the Titanic to illustrate the superiority of Nazi filmmaking and to lay the blame of the Titanic disaster on British and American capitalism. The film invented a fictional German officer on board the Titanic who alone saw the danger and was selfless and heroic.

In this sense, kipper, Goebbels' "Titanic" is the father of the modern Titanic movie we love to hate. The Nazi "Titanic" was the first movie to use the simple title "Titanic" and it was the first movie to create fictional characters and subplots and mix them with the historical events, thereby creating the template used by most filmmakers since.

The original director Herbert Selpin was arrested during filming for anti-Nazi statements. His replacement was never credited. Selpin was later found hung in his jail cell and his murder was framed by the Gestapo as a suicide.

After the movie was finished it gets weirder still. Goebbels decided that the movie would actually weaken German morale instead of boosting it, and therefore banned it from playing inside Germany. But it was shown outside Germany in German-occupied countries in Europe for a brief run in November 1943. Until Goebbels banned the film entirely and all prints pulled. It still ranks as one of the most costly failures in German history...and at a time when money was scarce and could have been put to more productive use.

After WWII various censored prints popped up in the Soviet Union and Europe. It wasn't until 2005 that Kino released a restored uncensored print on home video. A blu-ray followed in 2017 but here's the catch...you can only get the uncensored film on dvd in North America.failures

FYI: "A Night to Remember" used a couple of shots of the engine room flooding from the 1943 "Titanic".

pl_titanic_alt.jpg.bddb100e140820e477dc98f93355693d.jpg

 

Very interesting Stider, thanks for posting this.

I'll have to look for the Nazi version of Titanic.

I never saw the '50s Hollywood version until a few years ago. As a kid and then for years later the only version mainly shown on TV was 'A Night to Remember'.

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On 9/15/2020 at 1:33 AM, redrum said:

That's great stuff. I always loved the old steam engines at the fair. I could watch them for hours.

A triple-expansion engine is a compound engine that expands the steam in three stages—i.e. an engine with three cylinders at three different pressures. A quadruple-expansion engine expands the steam in four stages, and so on.

The USS PAMPANITO sub in SF interior.

https://maritime.org/tour/img/atr/atr.jpg

I love steam engines and all kinds of gear head stuff like that. Been to several railroad museums and taken steam train rides. Most run on fuel oil now (old crank case oil), I'd love to see one that runs on coal, but I'm sure Al Gore would have a cow LOL.   

When my father was in the Navy his first job was down in the engine room (destroyer escort with two boilers fired by bunker C, two GE steam turbine engines,  and turbo electric transmission). He HATED it down there. HOT as hell he said.  When he got the chance to get a job topside as part of the crew of  the Mark 12 5"/38 gun as a fuze setter he took it. Said he would rather die or be injured topside than below deck anyway if things got bad.

Speaking of steam engines. One day I was in Burbank Ca when I look up hearing some "clatter" and there coming down the blvd is Jay Leno with his big giant head driving some steam powered jalopy. So I yell over at him, "Hey Leno, where's your helmet?"  (This was shortly after the incident where he was the passenger in a 2500 horse power Plymouth "Cuda" that rolled during a taping of his garage show). Jay smiled with that big jawed grin and then yelled out at me, "this thing has a top speed of about eleven, I think I'm safe!"  Funny guy that Jay.

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21 hours ago, redrum said:

Watched this again with commentary by the director Robert Wise (Sound Of Music), Candice Bergen, Mako and Richard Crenna. Too bad McQueen couldn't have lived to also talk about what I think is his best film.

Just A Car Guy: Steve McQueen, as a sailor and bicycle riderThe Los Angeles Times (1966) - The Sand PebblesJerry Goldsmith talks The Sand Pebbles (1966) | Film Music CentralRobert Wise - The Sand Pebbles30 anos sem McQueen | Steve mcqueen, Actor steve mcqueen, Richard  attenboroughSimon OaklandThe Sand Pebbles (Fox Wilshire) Premiere BookletWatch The Sand Pebbles on Netflix Today! | NetflixMovies.comSand Pebbles, The (1966) | Nostalgia CentralThe Sand Pebbles Movie Message BoardSand Pebbles, The - Internet Movie Firearms Database - Guns in Movies, TV  and Video GamesThe Sand Pebbles (1966) | film freedoniaView topic - Sand Pebbles online for free | DieselBefore Nine: Films We Like: The Sand Pebbles (1966)

Shit!  I need to buy the DVD on ebay with the commentary. Haven't heard that one yet!

Strider won't like this, but now I buy most of my DVDs and CD on ebay (buy it now). Get good used stuff for a steal. Many sellers will do buy 2 get and 3rd free. Only had one bad DVD from ebay---  Notified ebay and they credited me instantly.

 

McQueen's best film.... hmmm.  Many would say Bullet, but that isn't going deep enough. Great action film, but not better than other McQueen roles in my view.  If I had to choose right now I would say "The Sand Pebbles" because it is such multi faceted and compelling story with such a tragic ending. Tragic endings are the better stories.... poetry actually. Happy endings are for kids.

But on another day I would say "The Cincinnati Kid"   Love that film. Edward G. Robinson, Karl Malden, Ann Margret, the BEAUTIFUL Tuesday Weld, Cab Calloway, Joan Blondale, Rip fucking Torn!!!!   Yeah, a toss up between the two.

What do you think Strider, Jake Holeman or "the Kid"?  Which character was the better role for McQueen?

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13 hours ago, kipper said:

What do you think Strider, Jake Holeman or "the Kid"?  Which character was the better role for McQueen?

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Eric "The Kid" Stoner...because he got to hang out with Tuesday Weld and Ann-Margret.

Really, it's hard to choose. I happen to like Frank Bullitt…he got to bang Jacqueline Bisset. "Bullitt" definitely does not have a happy ending.  You're also forgetting Captain Hilts from "The Great Escape"...better pay-grade than Petty Officer Jack Holman. Henri Charriere from "Papillon" is another memorable McQueen film. And how about Thomas Crown from "The Thomas Crown Affair"? Then, there are all the great westerns Steve did, starting with "The Magnificent Seven" and his character Vin Tanner.

Steve McQueen had so many great roles and great movies, it is impossible for me to choose just one to represent him at his best.

Edited by Strider
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Lucky Steve to act with those 2 foxes.

I had to rewind part of this to see Ford Rainey bop the Chinese guy in the head with the ax. 😄

Rainey played in so many TV shows and movies and lived almost to 100.

Sand Pebbles, The (1966) | Nostalgia Central

The Springfield rifle used in the movie. It was replaced by the Garand in WW2, but many snipers kept the Springfield for it's accuracy.

M1903 Springfield - Wikiwand

 

 

Edited by redrum
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