kingzoso Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 A much as I Love the Music of the Rolling Stones, from the very beginning to the present, I always considered Keith Richards no more than a "glorified" rhythm guitar player. Brian Jones, Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood are much more and better "lead" guitarists than Keef. I know and realize that the Rolling Stones are considered "one" of the Greatest Rock and Roll bands of all-time, but I will will never acknowledge Keith Richards as the "4th" greatest guitarist of all-time (according to Rolling Stone magazine). Just listen to Mick Taylor rip it up on "Gimme Shelter". You barely see or hear Keith. http://youtu.be/K7vLY-kZsAI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Keith is ranked as highly as he is on account of his being the personification of rock 'n' roll, not his playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the chase Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Keith is ranked as highly as he is on account of his being the personification of rock 'n' roll, not his playing. ... that and all the great songs he's co-written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhead Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I think for their body of work, and Keith being the consistent guitar player throughout, mean he's got to be up there. He was perfect for the band and for the music they all produced. Would Joe Satriani, with all his technical abillty an finese, instead of Keith, have made an improvement in the Stone output. Highly doubt it. he would have f-ed it up...no offense Joe... I agree with Steve A Jones above. When you think of Rock and Roll. "Keef" is an image that often comes to mind. P.S.- I am not a huge fan but I did read Keith's book and i give him a lot more credit towards his over all song writing effort than I ever did before. P.S.S.-Mick Taylor is fantastic, but really, what did he do after the Stones? i know I read he was a shy guy but musically, did he resonate anymore, except for guitar players? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstork Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 He can't play lead like Clapton or Santana. But those guys could never come up with Can't You Hear Me Knockin'. Advantage Keef! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishhead Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 He can't play lead like Clapton or Santana. But those guys could never come up with Can't You Hear Me Knockin'. Advantage Keef! Agree 100%... rhythm guitar playing, and I mean really interesting rhythm guitar playing, like in CYHMK that you have noted, is often overlooked by folks when talking guitar players, and is really over looked in those tired old guitar player polls. Keef was pretty great at writing some great rhythm parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 I always considered Keith Richards no more than a "glorified" rhythm guitar player. There is the crux of your problem. Glorified rhythm player? Rock and roll is based on rhythm...it couldn't exist without it. Without rhythm and songcraft, you end up with crap like Yngwie Malmsteen and the rest of the flashy yet ultimately empty and soulless shredders out there. FYI: Keef could solo when he wanted to, as one listen to "Sympathy for the Devil" will prove. Plus, your point about that clip is pointless, too. For one thing, THAT is Keith, not Mick, you hear for the entire beginning of the song, and you can hear his playing throughout...if you can't, it means you're deaf. For another, the reason you cannot see Keith is because most directors of Rolling Stones films at that time focused almost exclusively on Mick Jagger. Take a look at the concert footage from "Gimme Shelter" sometime...it's practically all Jagger. Basing your opinion on Keith's playing and importance to rock and roll on whether or not he appears in an old concert clip is dubious, at best. I'm sure this same discussion regarding Keith's guitar playing has already been discussed ad nauseam in the Rolling Stones thread. As SAJ said above, Keith Richards is the very embodiment of rock and roll. To not understand that is to not understand the nature of rock and roll, itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redirtuo Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 Mr Strider? Are you implying that if Richards were an automobile, he would be something like a shiny black 1969 Pontiac GTO, and if Malmsteen were a car he would be a bright red turbo-charged Suzuki Sidekick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 ^^^ If I knew what a Suzuki Sidekick was, I might be able to answer that, haha. But Keef is definitely eternally classic and cool like a GTO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weslgarlic Posted March 21, 2013 Share Posted March 21, 2013 It was Keith who played the stinging solo on sympathy for the devil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBecM3CQVD8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 ^^^ If I knew what a Suzuki Sidekick was, I might be able to answer that, haha. But Keef is definitely eternally classic and cool like a GTO. A Sidekick was a piece of shit jeep wannabe made for a couple of years in the mid-80's. Look at it as the 1985 Yugo of the miniature SUV world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sagittarius Rising Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Rock and Roll is not nor has ever been about technique, it's about feel, swagger, attitude. That's Rock and Roll, and as such nothing says Rock and Roll like Keith Richards. So what if he is not a brilliant soloist, he is an amazing songsmith and amazing rhythm guitar player, kind of like Pete Townshend but with personality and charisma. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingzoso Posted March 22, 2013 Author Share Posted March 22, 2013 Let me start out by saying that I am not disparaging Keith Richards as guitar player. I would consider him in probably my top 10 favorite musicians of all-time. I just think that He is "over-rated" as a lead guitar player. I know Rolling Stone magazine polls do hold not very much weight. I am just saying, in my opinion, there are far better guitar players that should be ranked before Keith. Like I said, I love the Rolling Stones and always have. I saw them twice: (I believe) the first gig on their "Steel Wheels" tour in Philadelphia in 1989 and at one of their "Voodoo Lounge" gigs in Columbia, Missouri in 1994. It was an outdoor stadium concert in the mid-afternoon. I remember sitting on the bleachers and I went crazy when they began to play "Monkey Man". I remember that I was the only one shouting and screaming in my section when they started that song. As far as Keith being one of the best song-writers ever, I will concur with that. Lennon/McCartney Jagger/Richards Page/Plant... Plus others of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm sure Keith will be remembered more for his classic open-G riffs than his Chuck Berryish lead playing, but honourable mention must be made of Keith's bass playing as well...some of the Stones' greatest bass lines came from Keith's fingers- "Sympathy For The Devil" and "Jumping Jack Flash" among them. As far as I'm concerned Let It Bleed is Keith Richards' "This is how great I am" statement in the same way that Presence is Jimmy Page's. Keith plays all but three of the guitar parts on LIB, and never rose to that consistent level of greatness again. His Talk Is Cheap solo album is the greatest album The Rolling Stones never made IMO. Matter of fact, at this point I'd look forward to another Keith/Xpensive Winos album than a new Stones album... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bitnogoodjive Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 Brian Jones, Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood are much more and better "lead" guitarists than Keef. Brian? He was a first class musician no question but he was more of a rhythm guitar player in the early days of the Stones and any of his "lead" playing was usually slide guitar like on "Little Red Rooster" ,"Can't Be Satisfied" or "No Expectations". Keith handled most of the guitar parts for the songs and Brian eventually moved on to other instruments (harmonica, mellotron, etc.) It's Keith who plays most of the lead guitar on the early Stones records, particularly on songs like "Time Is On My Side", "Route 66", "Down the Road Apiece", "Heart of Stone" (the demo version of this tune also had Jimmy Page on guitar) , etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 I'm sure Keith will be remembered more for his classic open-G riffs than his Chuck Berryish lead playing, but honourable mention must be made of Keith's bass playing as well...some of the Stones' greatest bass lines came from Keith's fingers- "Sympathy For The Devil" and "Jumping Jack Flash" among them. As far as I'm concerned Let It Bleed is Keith Richards' "This is how great I am" statement in the same way that Presence is Jimmy Page's. Keith plays all but three of the guitar parts on LIB, and never rose to that consistent level of greatness again. His Talk Is Cheap solo album is the greatest album The Rolling Stones never made IMO. Matter of fact, at this point I'd look forward to another Keith/Xpensive Winos album than a new Stones album... Hear hear, Nutrocker! I saw those Keith Richards & the Xpensive Winos shows and that was a right crackin' band...Steve Jordan, Waddy Wachtel, Bobby Keys, et al. Definitely have more interest in seeing them in concert again than the Boring Bones. Interesting that you brought up "Presence" in relation to "Let it Bleed", for it was right after these two respective high-water marks for Keef and Jimmy that each succumbed to their heroin addiction and their guitar playing began to suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross62 Posted March 22, 2013 Share Posted March 22, 2013 A much as I Love the Music of the Rolling Stones, from the very beginning to the present, I always considered Keith Richards no more than a "glorified" rhythm guitar player. Brian Jones, Mick Taylor and Ronnie Wood are much more and better "lead" guitarists than Keef. I know and realize that the Rolling Stones are considered "one" of the Greatest Rock and Roll bands of all-time, Let me start out by saying that I am not disparaging Keith Richards as guitar player. I would consider him in probably my top 10 favorite musicians of all-time. I just think that He is "over-rated" as a lead guitar player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 Hear hear, Nutrocker! I saw those Keith Richards & the Xpensive Winos shows and that was a right crackin' band...Steve Jordan, Waddy Wachtel, Bobby Keys, et al. Definitely have more interest in seeing them in concert again than the Boring Bones. Interesting that you brought up "Presence" in relation to "Let it Bleed", for it was right after these two respective high-water marks for Keef and Jimmy that each succumbed to their heroin addiction and their guitar playing began to suffer. Comparing the Winos live to the Stones live really comes down to comparing Keith's approach to live performance as opposed to Jagger's- granted, the Winos tended to play much smaller venues (which is really Keith's preference), but the Winos didn't need to rely so much on the spectacle aspect of performing like the Stones do; it would be nice to see the Stones do more theatre or club shows where they can emphasize the music- when the hell was the last time the Stones did an arena/stadium gig without any 'gimmicks' (i.e. lots of effects or props)..."Let's just go onstage with a couple of lights," as Keith would say. When the Stones started doing the "Vegas" type tours in '89 something was lost in translation IMO- which is probably part of the reason why the '72, '78 or '81 tours are still held in such high regard by the fans. When Keith did his thing with the Winos it was just a bunch of guys and a couple of chicks on the stage doing what they do best...and nary an inflatable cock or confetti spewing dragon in sight As for how Keith's addiction affected his guitar playing -compared to Jimmy Page- I don't think the rot really set in for Keith until Goats Head Soup; Sticky Fingers and Exile still have some mighty playing from Keith Richards...although to be fair both albums have tracks where Keith's guitar is not in evidence (i.e. "Sway" or "Shine A Light".) IMO Mick Taylor stepped up as a collaborator with Jagger on Goats Head Soup in much the same way that John Paul Jones stepped in on In Through The Out Door...and for similar reasons- Keith and Page were both too smacked out to pull their own weight during the sessions. The end result of course being very different sounding albums from what had gone before, though JPJ got the proper credit for his work and Mick Taylor didn't... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles J. White Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 That is my 2nd fav Rolling Stone tune after White Horses It was Keith who played the stinging solo on sympathy for the devil http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBecM3CQVD8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nutrocker Posted March 23, 2013 Share Posted March 23, 2013 That is my 2nd fav Rolling Stone tune after White Horses We know you meant "Wild Horses", Charles...Keith in high strung "Nashville" tuning! As for the solo in "Sympathy For The Devil", there have been 'rumours' for years that Keith didn't play that solo, but rather a ringer like Eric Clapton, Dave Mason or, yes, even Jimmy Page. Personally, I don't believe 'em though- the "Sympathy" solo has that Keith Richards Attitude (not to mention filmed evidence in the One Plus One film) IMO "Gimme Shelter" is Keith's masterpiece: ...and a solo take, live with the Xpensive Winos: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janvier Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 New Comic Book Tells the Life Story of Keith Richards 25 April 2013 The Keith Richards story has been documented many times and in many ways. Now it’s being told in comic-book form. Orbit: Keith Richards, released this week by Bluewater Productions, is an illustrated, uncensored version of the Rolling Stones guitarist’s life and career. http://www.classichitsandoldies.com/v2/2013/04/25/new-comic-book-tells-the-life-story-of-keith-richards/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagesbow Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 He deserves to be top 5, if only for this moment: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bitnogoodjive Posted July 11, 2015 Share Posted July 11, 2015 http://www.avclub.com/article/keith-richards-release-his-first-solo-album-more-2-222072 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bitnogoodjive Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 New released track, Trouble. http://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/rock/6634429/keith-richards-trouble-crosseyed-heart-rolling-stones-solo-album Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Duck Posted July 19, 2015 Share Posted July 19, 2015 P.S.S.-Mick Taylor is fantastic, but really, what did he do after the Stones? i know I read he was a shy guy but musically, did he resonate anymore, except for guitar players? Who better than Mick Taylor himself to answer this question. II had been thinking about leaving a lot that year. I saw the group as not going anywhere. We hadn't toured since 1972 and I suppose I was bored. I also had personal problems. My marriage was falling apart, maybe that coloured my judgement. I remember Bill Wyman saying to me he was thinking about leaving. I did have a falling out with Mick Jagger over some songs I should have been credited with co-writing on It's Only Rock'n'Roll. We were quite close friends and co-operated quite closely on getting that album made. By that time Mick and Keith weren't really working together as a team so I'd spend a lot of time in the studio. One thing I disliked was that the Stones were invariably surrounded by hangers-on telling them how wonderful they were. I didn't get along with a lot of them. Drugs weren't really the problem. It's no secret that Keith was a heroin addict by then and I was becoming one, but my problems got worse a lot later. Mick wasn't into all of that, he was more of a control freak. I doubt he'd ever take anything that would get the better of him. I told Mick at a birthday party for Eric Clapton I was leaving. It took me a long time to settle down afterwards. I'd lost all my friends from the John Mayall days. I'd been living out of a suitcase. It was at least a year before I started playing again. I've seen the members of the Stones on and off since -- I'm hoping Bill Wyman will play on the album I'm making now. I remember the time with them as fun -- we were a band of gypsies living and traveling together 24 hours a day, but it wasn't always fun making the records. In fact it was so painful I used to hate listening to them. But now I think the records we made were great. The whole experience made me more cynical. One of the reasons I haven't bothered to make records of my own is because I don't get paid for some of the biggest selling records of all time. Frankly, I was ripped off. You get cynical about the music business and it stops you playing. But three or four years ago I decided that one way or another I should carry on making music. So now I'm back in the studio and we've done five tracks. The album will probably be called Secret Affair and it's going to be very good. - Mick Taylor 1997 Edited to add: I found this interview at Mick Taylor's web site. http://www.micktaylor.net/quotes.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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