War in Ukraine

[timothy5151]

I thought this video was great at explaining why Russia invaded. A lot of it I had already read elsewhere. It was nice to have it summarized. 

 

 

[JohnOsbourne]

Apparently, US coastal waters extend nearly to Australia:

Solomon Islands Denying Port Calls To US Military Vessels As China Influence Grows | ZeroHedge

[redrum]

35 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Apparently, US coastal waters extend nearly to Australia:

Solomon Islands Denying Port Calls To US Military Vessels As China Influence Grows | ZeroHedge

Dealing with the devil. 

Looks like they may have forgotten that we saved both their asses in WW2. 

[rm2551]

 

[JohnOsbourne]

2 hours ago, rm2551 said:

 

What country?  They're an appendage of the US State Department at this stage.

[cryingbluerain]

On 8/28/2022 at 9:37 PM, redrum said:

Dealing with the devil. 

Looks like they may have forgotten that we saved both their asses in WW2. 

No good deed goes unpunished.

[redrum]

2 hours ago, cryingbluerain said:

No good deed goes unpunished.

Same with the Philippines. Ingrates. 

[rm2551]

8 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

What country?  They're an appendage of the US State Department at this stage.

I think the appendage comment is fair at this time. This is (obviously) immensely beneficial for Ukraine so it's not like they are unwilling participants in the current geo-political landscape vis-a-vi the west.

Before Putin's actions Ukraine had massive political and social problems. They were badly divided and corrupt. The corruption was typical ex-soviet bloc state - entrenched and hideous. The way Ukraine united in the face of aggression is remarkable, and no one really saw that coming. In a way this seems to have dissolved some of those issues (or put it on the back burner may be a more apt analogy - time will tell)

Arestovych has a vision for his country. I have not heard of his kind of world view. He is definitely an interesting character and it is a really interesting view that is presented. Quite the polarising figure from what little I understand, but very well educated in more than one field.

I'm actually glad he is against pure liberalism - or at least seems to understand it's limitations/flaws.

Edited September 9, 2022 by rm2551

[rm2551]

 

[JohnOsbourne]

[SteveAJones]

36 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said:

Ever notice how any expression whatsoever of nationalism for the United States is essentially labeled as a hate crime by the Left, but Ukrainian nationalism is their new religion?

[JohnOsbourne]

1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

Ever notice how any expression whatsoever of nationalism for the United States is essentially labeled as a hate crime by the Left, but Ukrainian nationalism is their new religion?

That's right.  But there's more too than that:

 

[SteveAJones]

3 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said:

That's right.  But there's more too than that:

Perfect. I'm not concerned about the outcome though. Some Affirmative Action hire with NYC Emergency Management told me with a smile exactly what to do and then assured me, "You've got this!" It seems almost rude to ask how in the hell do people follow media updates when there is no power grid and no cell towers remaining in the area and which officials? Would that be the non-binary community organizer with a degree in micro-aggressions?  

 

[redrum]

12 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Perfect. I'm not concerned about the outcome though. Some Affirmative Action hire with NYC Emergency Management told me with a smile exactly what to do and then assured me, "You've got this!" It seems almost rude to ask how in the hell do people follow media updates when there is no power grid and no cell towers remaining in the area and which officials? Would that be the non-binary community organizer with a degree in micro-aggressions?  

 

Duck and cover. Kiss your butt goodbye. 

[redrum]

12 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Perfect. I'm not concerned about the outcome though. Some Affirmative Action hire with NYC Emergency Management told me with a smile exactly what to do and then assured me, "You've got this!" It seems almost rude to ask how in the hell do people follow media updates when there is no power grid and no cell towers remaining in the area and which officials? Would that be the non-binary community organizer with a degree in micro-aggressions?  

 

 

[rm2551]

 

[SteveAJones]

11 hours ago, rm2551 said:

 

3:37...narrator fails to mention the REAL reason why Russia invaded the Ukraine. The real reason is the US & Europe have been pushing for Ukraine to become a member of NATO for years.

There is no way Putin was going to stand for that and as the saber rattling grew ever louder, he decided enough was enough and executed the invasion.

[rm2551]

1 hour ago, SteveAJones said:

There is no way Putin was going to stand for that and as the saber rattling grew ever louder, he decided enough was enough and executed the invasion.

Agree with this. The line drawn was consistently redrawn up to the borders of Russia itself which was against agreed principles out of the Cuban missile crisis (or at least, that's how I understand it). And given Vlad's, shall we say, traditional world view, you could very well say it was inevitable. Still, if it turned out the shitty post WW2 Communism system churned out a far superior military capability than the west, I'm sure the march westward would not have stopped. AT ALL.

The best thing out of this is the exposure of the actual power Putin holds. All the details and limitations.

I am hopeful Ukraine will become an independent democracy that lives up to it's status as a BOSS for how it stood up when invaded. Fairy tales almost never happen, I back Ukraine to be one.

The glass is half full Steve.

[cryingbluerain]

3 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

3:37...narrator fails to mention the REAL reason why Russia invaded the Ukraine. The real reason is the US & Europe have been pushing for Ukraine to become a member of NATO for years.

There is no way Putin was going to stand for that and as the saber rattling grew ever louder, he decided enough was enough and executed the invasion.

Plus he knew we have a weak-kneed clown in the WH and he wanted to strike while the iron was hot.

[SteveAJones]

19 hours ago, rm2551 said:

I am hopeful Ukraine will become an independent democracy that lives up to it's status as a BOSS for how it stood up when invaded. 

Ukraine's resistance is over-blown in my opinion. This war would be over were it not for the US fighting a proxy-war against Russia in that region, to the tune of what is it now...$50 BILLION? I'm not rooting for Russia but I'm not rooting for the globalist slush fund that is known as Ukraine either.

[rm2551]

4 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Ukraine's resistance is over-blown in my opinion.

I'll disagree with you there. I reckon it's a good example. In that I'd like to think we would be able to produce something of a fighting force if we were invaded. It is highly unlikely now, but it is a fucked up world and who knows down the road. Resource wars, mass population displacements that are coming...

Of course, I'd like to think... is laughably optimistic. We'd almost certainly be fucked at least for a good while. But it's good to see Ukraine do it. Good on them.

[JohnOsbourne]

5 hours ago, SteveAJones said:

Ukraine's resistance is over-blown in my opinion. This war would be over were it not for the US fighting a proxy-war against Russia in that region, to the tune of what is it now...$50 BILLION? I'm not rooting for Russia but I'm not rooting for the globalist slush fund that is known as Ukraine either.

Completely agree with this.  It's not about pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine, it's about opposing the globalist oligarchy who is using this war (like they did Covid) as a stepping stone.  (To what, we don't know, but it can't be good.)  Even in less lurid terms, there is no American national interest at stake here, and we should stay out.

 

[JohnOsbourne]

1 hour ago, rm2551 said:

I'll disagree with you there. I reckon it's a good example. In that I'd like to think we would be able to produce something of a fighting force if we were invaded. It is highly unlikely now, but it is a fucked up world and who knows down the road. Resource wars, mass population displacements that are coming...

Of course, I'd like to think... is laughably optimistic. We'd almost certainly be fucked at least for a good while. But it's good to see Ukraine do it. Good on them.

It is surprising how willing ordinary Ukrainians are to be cannon fodder for a US proxy war.  I get being anti-Russian but how can they possibly want to sacrifice for US geopolitical interests?  But then again Zelensky is essentially a dictator at this stage so it's not like there's any feasible means of opposition in the Ukraine.  Of course it's also surprising how eager Poles and the Baltics are for this war go global (they'll be destroyed just like in WW2, Poland in particular should understand the worthlessness of Anglo-American security guarantees), it's a good indication of how effective propaganda can be.  

[SteveAJones]

1 hour ago, rm2551 said:

I'll disagree with you there. I reckon it's a good example. In that I'd like to think we would be able to produce something of a fighting force if we were invaded. It is highly unlikely now, but it is a fucked up world and who knows down the road. Resource wars, mass population displacements that are coming...

Of course, I'd like to think... is laughably optimistic. We'd almost certainly be fucked at least for a good while. But it's good to see Ukraine do it. Good on them.

Like Japan, Australia's citizens are surrounded by water and completely disarmed. Most of the terrain is uninhabitable. Frankly, for the Chinese an invasion would be like shooting fish in a barrel. Some say the ANZUS treaty, signed in the 1940s between Australia, New Zealand and the US, would save the day. I say that treaty was written long before China became a nuclear power and, as a by the way, Biden among many other American politicians is already bought off, paid for and owned by the Chinese.

Edited December 10, 2022 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

25 minutes ago, JohnOsbourne said:

It is surprising how willing ordinary Ukrainians are to be cannon fodder for a US proxy war.  I get being anti-Russian but how can they possibly want to sacrifice for US geopolitical interests?  But then again Zelensky is essentially a dictator at this stage so it's not like there's any feasible means of opposition in the Ukraine.  Of course it's also surprising how eager Poles and the Baltics are for this war go global (they'll be destroyed just like in WW2, Poland in particular should understand the worthlessness of Anglo-American security guarantees), it's a good indication of how effective propaganda can be.  

Yep, Poland is counting upon Article 5 as a NATO member nation to save them if it ever becomes necessary. Good luck with that!