ScarletMacaw Posted May 14, 2022 Author Share Posted May 14, 2022 7 hours ago, SteveAJones said: The big difference is there was a war for independence that was won. Ukraine has been fighting wars for its independence for many decades. We only had to rebel against a small country separated from us by an ocean. It was a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 3 hours ago, ScarletMacaw said: Ukraine has been fighting wars for its independence for many decades. We only had to rebel against a small country separated from us by an ocean. It was a lot easier. The British Empire, one of history's preeminent powers, arguably at its height and a major naval force, a "small country"? Are you just determined to show off your stupidity at every opportunity? BTW, Bandera's forces didn't even really help the Germans much in WW2 against the Soviets (which might have been understandable), they mainly focused on killing Poles, whom they seemed to hate even more than Russians. They were pretty much a liability and completely short-sighted (since they would have been better off as a German colony than run by the Communists). An accurate reflection of Ukrainian "nationhood". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 The brain-dead American left: The Bizarre, Unanimous Dem Support For The $40b War Package To Raytheon And CIA: "For Ukraine" | ZeroHedge It's pretty clear that liberals and the left view proxy war with a Russia as a cathartic war for their violent fantasies about what they'd like to do to their domestic opponents. Pretty scary stuff, actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 14, 2022 Share Posted May 14, 2022 8 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said: First of all, the issue has nothing to do with what Ukraine "wants" or even "deserves", it's what the US is obligated to do. There is no US national interest that depends on who controls Ukraine (I have yet to hear of one, anyway), so the answer to the correctly framed question (should the US do anything here) is a firm NO. Second of all, there will be no self-determination for Ukraine, any more than there is for Germany or Japan or Poland or any other US satellite. Ukraine will either be a US satellite, or Russian satellite. It has no other options. Being a US satellite means toeing the US line on all the things the US cares about, which means enforcing political correctness and liberal dictates domestically (like the western European countries have to, and like the eastern European countries are being increasingly pressured to). It also means being cannon fodder for US-sanctioned military adventures, as well as continuing to be giant black hole for "foreign aid" (aka money laundering). As far as I can tell, being a Russian satellite means no more than not hosting NATO troops or pursuing an anti-Russian foreign policy. (And acknowledging the separation of ethnically Russian regions who don't want to be ruled by Kiev anyway. What about what these people "want", eh?) There is no reason to think the Russians would interfere in Ukrainian domestic politics like the US interferes in the affairs of its "allies". Well put, more or less. Ukraine and the Zombiefication of America, by Boyd D. Cathey - The Unz Review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 5 hours ago, JohnOsbourne said: The brain-dead American left: The Bizarre, Unanimous Dem Support For The $40b War Package To Raytheon And CIA: "For Ukraine" | ZeroHedge It's pretty clear that liberals and the left view proxy war with a Russia as a cathartic war for their violent fantasies about what they'd like to do to their domestic opponents. Pretty scary stuff, actually. Gonna be some rich You Krain-ians from that pile of money. Fuck it. I'm going to watch Kojak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnOsbourne Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 19 minutes ago, redrum said: Gonna be some rich You Krain-ians from that pile of money. Fuck it. I'm going to watch Kojak. More of a Kolchak: The Night Stalker kind of guy myself, but sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummingbird69 Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cryingbluerain Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 On 5/14/2022 at 2:21 AM, ScarletMacaw said: Glenn Greenwald is a Russian stooge, possibly an agent. You war mongers say the same thing about anyone who doesn't agree with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 15, 2022 Share Posted May 15, 2022 15 hours ago, ScarletMacaw said: Ukraine has been fighting wars for its independence for many decades. We only had to rebel against a small country separated from us by an ocean. It was a lot easier. Holy shit! Just wow. I suggest enrolling in a course on the history of the British Empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletMacaw Posted May 15, 2022 Author Share Posted May 15, 2022 13 hours ago, SteveAJones said: Holy shit! Just wow. I suggest enrolling in a course on the history of the British Empire. The fact is we won. And the lofty British Empire, in case you didn't notice, is no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletMacaw Posted May 15, 2022 Author Share Posted May 15, 2022 On 5/14/2022 at 1:08 PM, JohnOsbourne said: The British Empire, one of history's preeminent powers, arguably at its height and a major naval force, a "small country"? Are you just determined to show off your stupidity at every opportunity? Insults, the last resort of the troll. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hummingbird69 Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 2 hours ago, ScarletMacaw said: Insults, the last resort of the troll. not always, sometimes sarcasm has it's place. By 1922 The British empire was the biggest the world had ever seen. they were the power that shaped the world from 1700 to 1900 and beyond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 1 hour ago, hummingbird69 said: not always, sometimes sarcasm has it's place. By 1922 The British empire was the biggest the world had ever seen. they were the power that shaped the world from 1700 to 1900 and beyond. Had a friend who called me 'Randy Redcoat.' 😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shnflacwav Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 Kiel Institute Ukraine Support Tracker Update May 2, 2022: data since January 24 and through April 23 United States = 10.3 Billion Euros in Aid All EU countries combined, including funds pledged by EU institutions and the European Investment Bank = 12.8 billion euros Something is wrong with this picture. Fighting a war with Russia by proxy is not a smart move, imo. I guess the biolabs we have over there are worth an extra $40 billion? I applaud Rand Paul for stalling this effort. With the issues we face here, this is proof JoeBama does not care about America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 5 hours ago, ScarletMacaw said: The fact is we won. And the lofty British Empire, in case you didn't notice, is no more. That's a rebuttal that fails to rebut. It's also an attempt to deflect from what you posted about that war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 49 minutes ago, shnflacwav said: Kiel Institute Ukraine Support Tracker Update May 2, 2022: data since January 24 and through April 23 United States = 10.3 Billion Euros in Aid All EU countries combined, including funds pledged by EU institutions and the European Investment Bank = 12.8 billion euros Something is wrong with this picture. Fighting a war with Russia by proxy is not a smart move, imo. I guess the biolabs we have over there are worth an extra $40 billion? I applaud Rand Paul for stalling this effort. With the issues we face here, this is proof JoeBama does not care about America. Everything they've done for the last two years is merely a front for looting the treasury. They're doing as much stealing, money laundering and rewarding of friends that they can before the USD is dead. This is not sustainable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletMacaw Posted May 16, 2022 Author Share Posted May 16, 2022 3 hours ago, hummingbird69 said: not always, sometimes sarcasm has it's place. Might want to look up the dictionary definition of sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScarletMacaw Posted May 16, 2022 Author Share Posted May 16, 2022 44 minutes ago, SteveAJones said: This is not sustainable. Putin isn't sustainable, fortunately. But I'm sure "John" can find a new gig. And I'm starting to wonder if you might be a Russian troll as well...I had thought you were just a curmudgeon who is seduced by fringe conspiracy theories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 4 hours ago, shnflacwav said: Kiel Institute Ukraine Support Tracker Update May 2, 2022: data since January 24 and through April 23 United States = 10.3 Billion Euros in Aid All EU countries combined, including funds pledged by EU institutions and the European Investment Bank = 12.8 billion euros Something is wrong with this picture. Fighting a war with Russia by proxy is not a smart move, imo. I guess the biolabs we have over there are worth an extra $40 billion? I applaud Rand Paul for stalling this effort. With the issues we face here, this is proof JoeBama does not care about America. It's the old 'Eagle Against The Bear' scenario all over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 16, 2022 Share Posted May 16, 2022 3 hours ago, ScarletMacaw said: Putin isn't sustainable, fortunately. But I'm sure "John" can find a new gig. And I'm starting to wonder if you might be a Russian troll as well...I had thought you were just a curmudgeon who is seduced by fringe conspiracy theories. Oh, of course. Anyone diametrically opposed to your point of view must be a Russian troll. You can't name one fringe conspiracy theory I support but I'll bet you hyperventilate with the best of them when repeating, "Russia! Russia! Russia!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm2551 Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redrum Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Senate Advances $40 Billion Ukraine Aid Bill With Wide Support Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm2551 Posted May 19, 2022 Share Posted May 19, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rm2551 Posted May 26, 2022 Share Posted May 26, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveAJones Posted May 27, 2022 Share Posted May 27, 2022 A tried-and-true drum to bang now...and just like that the war in Ukraine was all but forgotten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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