Zeppelin Mysteries Hosted by Steve A. Jones

[SteveAJones]

That would be circa 72-74 in Page's home studio..no?

Quite possibly in the home studio he had in a second floor bedroom at Plumpton Place,

Summer 1974. I'm trying to recall if he has ever said for certain.

[bigstickbonzo]

I've heard it was a second floor studio, very small in one of his houses. I assumed the Boleskine House but you'd know better than me. I've seen numerous pictures from a magazine article where Page is wearing the same getup and is playing his telecaster, so maybe the video footage seen in the "TRB" vid is from that source?

[SteveAJones]

This from Peromyscus:

Eyes That Shine Burning Red

In Jimmy Page: Magus, Musician, Man, George Case rather briefly discusses the movie The Song Remains The Same. He quotes (p.131) Jimmy Page as saying:

"All my sections are related to the eyes, the eyes being the mirror of the soul."

I have to say that idea hadn't occurred to me once in the thirty years or so between first seeing TSRTS and subsequently reading MMM. There are several occasions when the camera concentrates on Page's gaze – no one who has seen the movie will forget the early scene with the glowing red eyes, although I personally was traumatized far more by the scene where the camera actually dives into his eye to show a violent offstage event. But the scenes I noted didn't seem to add up to his eyes being the mirror of his soul – and anyway, isn't it "the eyes are the window of the soul", not "mirror"?

It turns out both are used. Answers.com gives the following citations:

The eyes…are the wyndowes of the mynde, for both ioye & ange…are seene…through them.[1545 T. Phaer Regiment of Life 14]

and

The eye, which is the reflector of the external world, is also the mirror of the soul within. [1940 G. Seaver Scott of Antarctic ii. 48

Phrases.org gives this explanation: EYES ARE THE MIRROR (MIRRORS) OF THE SOUL -- "A person's thoughts can be ascertained by looking in his or her eyes. The proverb has been traced back in English to 'Regiment of Life' (1545). But the proverb was known much earlier. Cicero (106-43 B.C.) is quoted as saying, 'Ut imago est animi voltus sic indices oculi' (The face is a picture of the mind as the eyes are its interpreter). The Latin proverbs, 'Vultus est index animi' or 'Oculus animi index,' are usually translated as 'The face is the index of the mind.' The French say, 'Les yeux sont le miroir de l'ame (The eyes are the mirror of the soul). 'The eyes are the window of the soul' is a variant form of the proverb..." From "Random House Dictionary of Popular Proverbs and Sayings" by Gregory Y. Titelman (Random House, New York, 1996).

Here are the TSRTS scenes showcasing Page's eyes.

During the section of the movie when we establish the band's home life and family duties, you may wonder what we will see of Page, who keeps his family well out of the public eye. In fact, we see Jimmy Page sitting alone by the moat of his house in Plumpton Place (1973) with his back to the camera. He's playing a hurdy-gurdy. He turns round, and in lieu of his eyes, we see twin glows, burning red.

I'm not sure what was intended, but this scene usually gets a laugh. Of course, Led Zeppelin fans are notorious stoners, so burning red eyes are some seriously funny shit, man.

During Since I've Been Loving You, the camera takes a long, lingering look at Page's eye.

At 1hr 10'00", the shot of the band onstage playing Dazed and Confused changes to Jimmy Page's Loch Ness fantasy sequence. The change is done by a dissolve from Page's face to the face of the full moon over a mountain, on top of which waits the Hermit.

After Page touches the Hermit's staff, the camera lingers on the Hermit's face while the old man's apparent age reverses to the stage of a fetus, and then re-ages. The deaging/aging sequence is keyed so that the eyes are invariate while the face changes around them. (This bit I get.)

At 1hr 20'10", still during Dazed and Confused, the camera dives into Page's eye to show a scene backstage. The scene is of a pretty long-haired young man in tight jeans being forced to the ground by burly security men with nightsticks and handcuffs while a crowd of women security guards watch. I don't see how this has anything to do with Jimmy Page's soul, but perhaps someone will enlighten me.

That's all I can recall that showcase Page's eyes in the movie. I wish I saw a pattern, but I don't.

Anyone see any more?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes, I would add if you look very closely you can see an "All Seeing Eye" on the back of the

shirt Jimmy is wearing when he turns to reveal his red eyes. Interestingly enough, in the

next shot of Peter Grant (talking on the telephone) an "All Seeing Eye" can be seen in the

tapestry above his head. Perhaps this was Jimmy's way of saying when it came to the band he and Peter always saw eye to eye.

[SteveAJones]

"All my sections are related to the eyes, the eyes being the mirror of the soul."

-- Jimmy Page

"View in Half or Varying Light" -- Led Zeppelin IV

Edited December 20, 2008 by SteveAJones

[bigstickbonzo]

As you say, Page kept his private life well out of the public eye. Perhaps the camera sneaking up behind him and catching him in the middle of his jam disrupts him enough, where he's enraged...eyes boiling red.

Or Jimmy just wanted to have a good laugh with all the occult mumbo jumbo.

[SteveAJones]

As you say, Page kept his private life well out of the public eye. Perhaps the camera sneaking up behind him and catching him in the middle of his jam disrupts him enough, where he's enraged...eyes boiling red.

Or Jimmy just wanted to have a good laugh with all the occult mumbo jumbo.

Black Dogs

Reports of black dogs date back hundreds of years, with the strange apparitions appearing at crossroads across the planet. The most common belief that surrounds the black dog is their ability to predict doom- in most cases a strange death occurs soon after a sighting. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's most famous book with Sherlock Holmes, The Hound of Baskerville, is honored for its use of the black dog legend. It must be noted, however, that in cases involving small children or women, the dogs actually protect those who see the creature.

Most witnesses describe the creature as a gigantic black hound with glowing red eyes that resemble burning coals. In some cases, the dog was reported as white, yellow or even gray. The dog is abnormally large and muscular and appears on dark and lonely roads late at night. In most cases, the dogs simply appear and disappear from nothing- leaving no trace that they ever existed. Theo Brown, a leading investigator of black dogs, thinks they are actually a symbol of protection and exist as a "universal guardian."

[Hotplant]

Hey man....

Don't forget the significant..Black Cat's!

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

Hi Steve,

I have the impression that Jimmy has on mirrored lenses (sunglasses) in the picture of him playing the hurdy-gurdy by the lake at Plumpton Place, and thus you can use the analogy of the mirrors reflecting back the light that Jimmy is looking at. So he is not letting us see into his soul through his eyes. The mirrored lenses are reflecting back to the viewer what Jimmy is seeing: the light. The mirrored lenses are preventing us from looking into his eyes and therefore we cannot see into his soul. When Jimmy says that the eyes are the "mirror" of the soul, does he mean of our soul, the viewer, not his soul?

As an Optometrist, I look at eyes all day long. I am very perceptive and tuned in to people and I can tell alot about them from their eyes. Of course their general and eye health are revealed. But also, I can tell about what kind of life they have had, if they are kind and giving, if they are concealing something, what kind of mood they are in, and lots more. If a person is turning their eyes up and out to the right, they are trying to remember something. So I guess you would say that the eyes are the windows to the soul.

A mirror reflects back the image that is in front of it. And indeed, the surface of the eye, the cornea, acts like a reflecting mirror. If you peer deeply into someone's eyes, you can see a reflection of yourself. Alot of my instruments work on the basis of this corneal reflection (a keratometer is one example). You can tell if someone has crossed eyes by looking at the position of a reflection of a penlight shined into the pupil. If the reflection is temporal to the center of the pupil, the eye is turning inward. If the reflection is nasal to the center, the eye is turning outward. So when you look deep into someone's eyes, you are examining yourself when you see your own reflection.

So in "The Song Remains the Same", is Jimmy using the eyes to let us see into his soul? I don't think so. I think that he is indeed using them as a mirror reflecting back to us what he is seeing, his perception of things, his view of us perhaps?

Also, I thought that the eye symbol was the "Evil Eye", not the "All-seeing Eye". Or it could represent a talisman against the evil eye. In the occult, the evil eye is used as a curse, bringing bad luck and misfortune on those who look at it. It has it's roots in envy, and maybe Jimmy is cursing those who were envious of the success of Led Zeppelin. This is of course, wild speculation on my part. Just something else to add to the discussion.

Edited to add: The pupil is a hole in the eye, a fenestration, a window through which you can view the lens, the vitreous humour and the retina. So the correct phrasing should be "The eyes are the windows to the soul".

Edited December 20, 2008 by BUCK'EYE' DOC

[Hotplant]

Wow, Buk...sorry this is off topic, but how interesting the eye is! I just had laser to remove weird blood vessels in my cornea, which was bleeding. I may now have this horrid floater forever.

When they injected dye to my vein for a test it didn't reach my eye for a minute and twenty seconds, very strange. But they immediately set me up to find out why. I was impressed.

The eye's are so amazing.

Again, sorry...carry on.

[Dzldoc]

Well I will agree about the eyes being a window to ones soul or more how their life has been.

Take someone that is young and has had a virtually stress free life, you can see a twinkle in their eyes. Now look at someone the same age that has lived a rough life

you just don't see that twinkle if you will.

I've been on the earth for almost half a century and have looked into many souls if you will and I've seen people that looked as though they were lifeless just by looking into their eyes. JMHO

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

Wow, Buk...sorry this is off topic, but how interesting the eye is! I just had laser to remove weird blood vessels in my cornea, which was bleeding. I may now have this horrid floater forever.

When they injected dye to my vein for a test it didn't reach my eye for a minute and twenty seconds, very strange. But they immediately set me up to find out why. I was impressed.

The eye's are so amazing.

Again, sorry...carry on.

Hi Hotplant,

Do you mean you had bleeding in the retina? The cornea does not have blood vessels in it, and therefore cannot bleed. The retina can have broken blood vessel which can leak. From what you say about the fluorescein dye test that you had, it sounds like you may also have had a blocked vessel preventing the dye from flowing through the vessel. And laser treatments can certainly leave you with annoying floaters. The floaters will become less noticable in time. I have them also. Very annoying.

BUCK'EYE' DOC

Edited December 20, 2008 by BUCK'EYE' DOC

[Hotplant]

Hi Hotplant,

Do you mean you had bleeding in the retina? The cornea does not have blood vessels in it, and therefore cannot bleed. The retina can have broken blood vessel which can leak. From what you say about the fluorescein dye test that you had, it sounds like you may also have had a blocked vessel preventing the dye from flowing through the vessel. And laser treatments can certainly leave you with annoying floaters. The floaters will become less noticable in time. I have them also. Very annoying.

BUCK'EYE' DOC

Oops, yeah I meant retina. They thought I had a tear but it's just a bleed from a vessel.

And yes, I had an ultrasound on my carotid arteries, so far looks ok. No results yet from my echo.

Right now, they (floaters and swirls) are very distracting, making reading hard. I sure hope they go away some day.

Thanks Doc!

[ally]

Well I will agree about the eyes being a window to ones soul or more how their life has been.

Take someone that is young and has had a virtually stress free life, you can see a twinkle in their eyes. Now look at someone the same age that has lived a rough life

you just don't see that twinkle if you will.

I've been on the earth for almost half a century and have looked into many souls if you will and I've seen people that looked as though they were lifeless just by looking into their eyes. JMHO

I've seen plenty of the lifeless look in peoples eyes and TBH, I find it disturbing. It's not something that one get's used to nor should it be. Totally agree with you , look a person in the eyes and you'll see a story or two

[SteveAJones]

Hi Steve,

So in "The Song Remains the Same", is Jimmy using the eyes to let us see into his soul? I don't think so. I think that he is indeed using them as a mirror reflecting back to us what he is seeing, his perception of things, his view of us perhaps?

Also, I thought that the eye symbol was the "Evil Eye", not the "All-seeing Eye".

You've presented some interesting views worthy of consideration, which was the

point of my original posts - to generate closer examination of the statement and of

the segments.

It's not the Evil Eye, it's the Eye in the Pyramid. As you know, the eye in the pyramid has had many meanings assigned to it through the years, particularly by the Masons. Noted Masonic Author Brent S. Morris points out the following facts:"The first 'Official' use and definition of the all-seeing eye as a Masonic symbol seems to have come in 1797 with The Freemasons Monitor of Thomas Smith Webb -14 years after Congress adopted the design for the seal. Here's how Webb explains the symbol:

"And although our thoughts, words and actions, may be hidden from the eyes of man, yet that All-Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon and Stars obey, and under whose watchful care even comets perform their stupendous revolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human heart, and will reward us according to our merits." *

Dr. Morris continues:"Besides the subtly different interpretations of the symbol, it is notable that Webb did not describe the eye as being in a triangle. Jeremy Ladd Cross published The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor in 1819, essentially an illustrated version of Webb's Monitor." **

"In this first "official" depiction of Webb's symbol, Cross had illustrator Amos Doolittle depict the eye surrounded by a semicircular glory."

"The all-seeing eye thus appears to be a rather recent addition to Masonic symbolism. It is not found in any of the Gothic Constitutions, written from about 1390 to 1730. The eye - sometimes in a triangle, sometimes in clouds, but nearly always surrounded by a glory - was a popular Masonic decorative device in the latter half of the 18th century. Its use as a design element seems to have been an artistic representation of the omniscience of God, rather than some generally accepted Masonic symbol."

"Its meaning in all cases, however, was that commonly given it by society at large - a reminder of the constant presence of God. For example, in 1614 the frontispiece of The History of the World by Walter Raleigh showed an eye in a cloud labeled "Providentia" overlooking a globe. It has not been suggested that Raleigh's History is a Masonic document despite the use of the all-seeing eye."

"The eye of Providence was part of the common cultural iconography of the 17th and 18th centuries. When placed in a triangle, the eye went beyond a general representation of God to a strongly Trinitarian statement. It was during this period that Masonic ritual and symbolism evolved; and it is not surprising that many symbols common to and understood by the general society made their way into Masonic ceremonies. Masons may have preferred the triangle because of the frequent use of the number 3 in their ceremonies: three degrees, three original grand masters, three principal officers, and so on." (Edit: three nights at Madison Square Garden in July 1973... )

"Eventually the all-seeing eye came to be used officially by Masons as a symbol for God, but this happened towards the end of the eighteenth century, after congress had adopted the seal."

"A pyramid, whether incomplete or finished, however, has never been a Masonic symbol. It has no generally accepted symbolic meaning, except perhaps permanence or mystery. The combining of the eye of providence overlooking an unfinished pyramid is a uniquely American, not Masonic, icon, and must be interpreted as its designers intended. It has no Masonic context."

Edited December 20, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Totally agree with you, look a person in the eyes and you'll see a story or two

Well, I'm there somewhere in my avatar...and in my profile page photo as well...

[BUCK'EYE' DOC]

The All-Seeing Eye symbol with the pyramid is on the US dollar bill and the Great Seal of the United States. Since alot of the founding fathers of the US were Masons, it can be said that they used their influence when designing the US currency and seal. Below the symbol are the words: "Novus Ordo Seclorum", translated as "new order of the ages". It is said to be an Illuminati symbol. The all seeing eye is also the evil eye, one and the same, in some references that I checked. It is also known as "The Eye of Osirus".

[SteveAJones]

The All-Seeing Eye symbol with the pyramid is on the US dollar bill and the Great Seal of the United States. Since alot of the founding fathers of the US were Masons, it can be said that they used their influence when designing the US currency and seal. Below the symbol are the words: "Novus Ordo Seclorum", translated as "new order of the ages". It is said to be an Illuminati symbol. The all seeing eye is also the evil eye, one and the same, in some references that I checked. It is also known as "The Eye of Osirus".

Well, one thing for certain is it is a symbol Jimmy derived from elsewhere, as is Zoso.

[jabe]

Steve,

Hope all is going well.

When the 1977 tour commenced,Led Zeppelin had quite an extensive catalogue of material from which to choose.I see Stairway,Kashmir,and No Quarter,as givens in the set.An abundance of great songs.

I guess my question to you is,was the band as a whole,involved in selecting the setlist,or was it Jimmy's call, period?How did this process work?Would Peter Grant have had any input?

[SteveAJones]

Steve,

Hope all is going well.

When the 1977 tour commenced,Led Zeppelin had quite an extensive catalogue of material from which to choose.I see Stairway,Kashmir,and No Quarter,as givens in the set.An abundance of great songs.

I guess my question to you is,was the band as a whole,involved in selecting the setlist,or was it Jimmy's call, period?How did this process work?Would Peter Grant have had any input?

Hello, jabe. Selecting the setlist for the '77 tour, as in '80, was very much band-driven.

I mention '80 because as you know IMTOD was dropped from the setlist at the request

of Robert. Note also in '77 they continued to retain songs to showcase each individual.

This held true in '80 as well, although the improvisational pieces were scaled back. The

setlists were generally developed during tour rehearsals, though as you quite rightly

said there were always going to be obvious numbers to be included.

Peter Grant undoubtedly left the setlists for the artists themselves to decide. He was

far more concerned with the business side of touring.

[audioservant]

not a real mystery I guess, but anyway, here it comes: when did Plant add (sing for the first time) the "remember Laughter" part to STH?

Nice holidays!

[RiotHouse]

not a real mystery I guess, but anyway, here it comes: when did Plant add (sing for the first time) the "remember Laughter" part to STH?

Nice holidays!

I believe the first time he sang that ad lib was June 14 1972 Nassau Coliseum

[Fortuna]

Hi Steve,

Do you or anyone else on here know anything about this story. I can't find anything about it anywhere. It's a great story if it's true.

I heard that Gary Moore told this story during an television interview.

I will try to tell it as best as I can.

It went something like this....

Apparently Gary Moore was playing with Skid Row at the Whiskey A Go-Go. They were playing there to only a handful of people over a few nights.

On this particular night a group of people arrived and sat at the back.

Shortly afterwards, they heard someone from the group shouting out, 'play Paddy McGinty's goat'.

They ignored it, but this person kept shouting out, 'play Paddy McGinty's goat'.

After a while they got really annoyed and yelled back something like, 'Get up here if you can do any better'.

Then, up came the boys from Led Zeppelin and absolutely blew the place away. There was queues down the street for nights afterwards.

Apparently it was John Bonham (probably pissed) yelling for Paddy McGinty's goat.

Anyone heard about this? I thought it was really funny and could just imagine Bonzo doing something like that.

[SteveAJones]

Hi Steve,

Do you or anyone else on here know anything about this story. I can't find anything about it anywhere. It's a great story if it's true.

I heard that Gary Moore told this story during an television interview.

I will try to tell it as best as I can.

It went something like this....

Apparently Gary Moore was playing with Skid Row at the Whiskey A Go-Go. They were playing there to only a handful of people over a few nights.

On this particular night a group of people arrived and sat at the back.

Shortly afterwards, they heard someone from the group shouting out, 'play Paddy McGinty's goat'.

They ignored it, but this person kept shouting out, 'play Paddy McGinty's goat'.

After a while they got really annoyed and yelled back something like, 'Get up here if you can do any better'.

Then, up came the boys from Led Zeppelin and absolutely blew the place away. There was queues down the street for nights afterwards.

Apparently it was John Bonham (probably pissed) yelling for Paddy McGinty's goat.

Anyone heard about this? I thought it was really funny and could just imagine Bonzo doing something like that.

It was John Bonham (only) who joined Skid Row (Noel Bridgeman(drums), Brush Shiels(bass/vocals), Gary Moore(guitar/vocals)) for the last two songs of their Whiskey a Go Go gig in Los Angeles on August 5, 1970 (date unconfirmed).

A 74 minute audience recording exists, and it contains: Slow Down, Benedict's Cherry Wine, Mr De-Luxe, Ramblin' On My Mind, Goin' Up The Country, Mad Dog Woman, Girl Called Winter, Honky Tonk Woman, Whole Lotta Love/Got My Mojo Working*, Slow Down* (reprise))

Royal Albert Hall (Paul Rodgers concert with support from Deborah Bonham)

Left to Right: Roger Fisher; Deborah Bonham (Bonzo's beautiful younger sister); Gary Moore, Kurtis Dengler (Paul Rodgers' guitarist); Lynn Sorensen; Howard Leese; Ryan Hoyle (Paul Rodgers' drummer).

Edited December 23, 2008 by SteveAJones

[SteveAJones]

Ten Years Gone

In a 1975 Rolling Stone interview, Robert Plant said the lyrics came from a relationship he’d been in years before joining Zeppelin. His girlfriend, whom he really loved, told him he had to choose between a life with her or “his fans.”

As he told Cameron Crowe, “She’s quite content these days, I imagine. . . . We wouldn’t have anything to say anymore. . . .ten years gone, I’m afraid.”

[widget]

John Bonham was very much alive in 1970...

It never happened. For one thing, John Bonham was deceased long before Skid Row

was formed. For another, they'd have had to use borrowed instruments to perform,

which they were never too keen on doing. Finally, Led Zeppelin's on and offstage

antics in the City of Angeles are extensively documented. There is no chance they

would have played anywhere within that city without some evidence to support it.