dazedcat Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Ok, I freely admit I know very little about hip hop and I also freely admit it's a generational gap thing for me personally speaking. I know Diddy is a marketing genius.......hell he has to be, he's got no talent as you've said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Hip-hop is mainly a producer's game & great MC's are few & far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stryder1978 Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Major Major, SPOT ON!!! I couldn't have said it better myself! I have tried time and time again to find out why rap and hip hop merit so much attention......and I still don't get it! I force myself to listen to rap on the radio to see why it is so popular.....but I fail to get it. Don't get me wrong, there is the occasional song that is catchy or has some decent lyrics (mostly the early stuff from the late 80's, LL Cool J but also B.o.. But for the most part, to me it's profane lyrics with horrible rhyming patterns set to a stolen sampled music beat because none of the "artists" can play an instrument. Just my opinion.....and Major Major's apparently! As for the collaboration with Jimmy, I was at work when I heard on the radio that Puff and Jimmy were playing on Saturday Night Live, and thought I mis-heard what was said. A co-worker confirmed that I heard correctly. I hadn't watched SNL in years, but I looked forward to seeing Jimmy performing and wasn't dissappointed with that part - seeing my hero on stage playing music is almost always worth it. I can see why he did it - for his son's sake as well as to introduce a new audience to the magic that was and still is Zeppelin! And unlike some, I never saw it or the Cadillac commercial as a sell-out, mearly another extension of using great music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMRitter Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 The real problem with it is now every time I cruise around town cranking out Kashmir - Idiots come up and say "Oh! Puff Daddy (insert current idiom here) cool! " and then go on to talk about the latest Back-Eyed Peas release as if I know and/or care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AutumnGrl Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Although I now cringe when I hear it, I can't complain too much because it introduced me to Led Zeppelin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperStatic Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 I read on this board that Plant encouraged Page to do it, is that factual? I only listened to it a few times. I see no real lasting value in it, Although I suppose at the time it gave Page a little exposure to the younger generation (maybe) but besides that not much more. I do respect the fact the Puff Daddy seems to be a fan of Led Zeppelin, so we have that in common But honestly I've always hated rap since the day I heard/watched the "first" rap song/video on the radio at the tender age of 9. I hated it then and I still do. But most of my dislike is aimed at the The Beastie Boys and their backers who are guilty of mainstreaming the stuff in the first place. May they burn in musical hell forever, forced to listen to polka music 24/7. This is IMO of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dazedcat Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Run DMC and Spin Magazine ought to be tossed onto the fire while you're at it. Both did as much or more to mainstream rap music as the Beastie Boys or anyone else ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireOpal Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I have read several interviews that Puff Daddy has given to HIP HOP / R&B magazines that his musical upbringing and partial influences included Led Zeppelin... That's not true - he barely knew who Jimmy was when they worked together. It was only people's awed reaction to hearing that JP was playing on his recording that motivated P.D. to learn a little about his collaborator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 I see no real lasting value in it, Although I suppose at the time it gave Page a little exposure to the younger generation (maybe) but besides that not much more. I do respect the fact the Puff Daddy seems to be a fan of Led Zeppelin, so we have that in common But honestly I've always hated rap since the day I heard/watched the "first" rap song/video on the radio at the tender age of 9. I hated it then and I still do. This is IMO of course. Agree! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 This conversation has probably taken place here well over a thousand times by now but even though I'm not a fan of it (just like I'm not a fan of classical or opera), I consider Rap/Hip-Hop to be a valid art form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 ^Jaf, depends on what kinda Rap your talking about.........I can get into some ol' school stuff from the 80's and early 90's before it became an art form to be as vulgar as you possibly could be. The type of Rap I despise, is the tasteless "artist" who use over the top profanity to convey the message. "Gangsta Rap" is the correct term , I believe. R&B, rock music and every other genere has sexual innuendo's, but there is a classy way of doing it, without coming out and sayin' " Hey girl, won't ctcha gimme sum a' dat p***y" .......cause I'm a playa', ya herd me" I love it when some fool rolls up at the red light in an Escalade, Cadillac or other with his speakers blairing so loud that the world can hear it, and all along there is a 3 year old child in the backseat, listening to this shit......."I wants dat p***y girl, you bitch ass ho. Gonna gets my money, ya herd me. Wanna see dat booty all in my face, ya herd me"....blah, blah,blah Yeah, that's real good music. The constant lyrics of pimps, hoe's, dealin drugs, bussin' a cap in yo' ass, and Vagina (for a better word) are not things I think are classified as "musical" nor is the lack of musicianship by the artist. I don't class that sort of Rap as music, but more of a narrow message. Nothing musical about that to me anyway. To make a Rap album, you need one guy who can write down some rhymes, and someone ( an engineer) to lay down the beats. That's about the thick of it. Maybe this sounds narrow-minded to some, but I don't have much respect for artist like that. I can listen to some R&B anyday, as long as it's musical (actually real instruments being played). Gangsta Rap (or maybe just Rap in general) and everything that goes along with the lifestyle is so glorified these days on television - it's no wonder there is so much murder in the streets, and lack of morals based on the concept that some young teenage kids and adults look up to that lifestyle and the message they carry in their music, as a way of life for themselves- It has an effect on society in a negative way (in some suburbs of the nation). That's just just the plain truth of it. Sadly, these kids look up to these "rappers" as idols - and live the life from what they preach on record. There is a guy named "MF Doom" who's pretty impressive, just to name one off the top. Not a mainstream artist, (more underground) but in my mind a damn good "Rap" artist is every respect of the word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 "I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die". Love that song, but I don't think a few lines from Johnny Cash would classify his music or legacy as negative on society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Love that song, but I don't think a few lines from a Johnny Cash song would classify his music or legacy as negative on society. Apparently someone thought so as Keb' 'Mo changed them during a of the song during a Cash tribute several years back. Agreed in general though, lots of folks thought they'd found a scapegoat in Marilyn Manson when it came to Columbine but they couldn't have been more wrong. Those kids were already fucked up, it had nothing whatsoever to do with the music they listened to. I feel the same way about Rap, what those artists are performing in their songs is a reflection of society and it's many ills, it's not an impetus to imitate it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 ^ Jaf, I have grown to respect you here, as I truly do appreciate alot of post you make and contribute. You have an extensive list of wide-ranging musical taste, but in this particular case I think you may be trying to seem more diverse than you really are. I dunno, but it would be hard to imagine that with your musical knowledge and taste that you would either own, or listen to much Rap or Gangsta Rap for that matter. I don't see a man of your age (possibly 50 or older?) that has such an appreciation for the good things, as having any musical connection or value with Rap music in the state it's in. I'm just not buying it, and you can't deny the negative effect it has on the young generation that choses to live the "Rapper" life-or literally participate in the things they preach. I don't see thousands of young kids killing each other everyday, over living the Metal lifestyle, or practicing acts of violence or worshipping Satan nationwide over Marilyn Manson. Yeah, kids are fucked up everywhere, regardless of what they listen too, but Rap music hasn't much positive encouragement this day in age. You can't honestly tell me, you believe that most Rap is a true "musical" expression. Maybe a "message"- yes....., but it isn't "musical"-compared to what you and I know music really is. Living the "thug life" doesn't seem too positive to me. That's one of the things Rappers like to advocate. Whether or not it is an expression of a personal journey a Rapper has, the message often isn't of any real signifigance to me-therefore I don't relate to it-nor is it usually of any musical arrangement that impresses me-even aside from the lyrics. Even if Rap is a reflecion of certain parts of society, it ultimately continues to produce a negative cycle for both the "artist" and the "listener" "alike. If you do happen own any rap, which artist are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jahfin Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 ^ Jaf, I have grown to respect you here, as I truly do appreciate alot of post you make and contribute. You have an extensive list of wide-ranging musical taste, but in this particular case I think you may be trying to seem more diverse than you really are. I dunno, but it would be hard to imagine that with your musical knowledge and taste that you would either own, or listen to much Rap or Gangsta Rap for that matter. I don't see a man of your age (possibly 50 or older?) that has such an appreciation for the good things, as having any musical connection or value with Rap music in the state it's in. I'm just not buying it, and you can't deny the negative effect it has on the young generation that choses to live the "Rapper" life-or literally participate in the things they preach. I don't see thousands of young kids killing each other everyday, over living the Metal lifestyle, or practicing acts of violence or worshipping Satan nationwide over Marilyn Manson. Yeah, kids are fucked up everywhere, regardless of what they listen too, but Rap music hasn't much positive encouragement this day in age. You can't honestly tell me, you believe that most Rap is a true "musical" expression. Maybe a "message"- yes....., but it isn't "musical"-compared to what you and I know music really is. Living the "thug life" doesn't seem too positive to me. That's one of the things Rappers like to advocate. Whether or not it is an expression of a personal journey a Rapper has, the message often isn't of any real signifigance to me-therefore I don't relate to it-nor is it usually of any musical arrangement that impresses me-even aside from the lyrics. Even if Rap is a reflecion of certain parts of society, it ultimately continues to produce a negative cycle for both the "artist" and the "listener" "alike. If you do happen own any rap, which artist are they? You make so many assumptions about me in your post that are completely off base that I don't even know where to begin so I'll just say I disagree with nearly everything you stated. As I mentioned, I'm not really a fan of Rap but I consider it a perfectly valid artform. I also don't blame Rap for anything, much less the negative effect you feel that it's had. I've had this conversation so many times here that I'm not going to get into it again. I'll just have to respectively disagree with you and leave it at that. If you want to know my opinion on this subject, I'm sure a quick search of the board will result in the thousands of times I've taken part in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 ^ that's fair enough Jaf, I wasn't trying to pull you in another direction-just trying to understand your defense on Rap as being an art form, or the reason why you feel the lyrics and/ or message isnt negative the majority of the time-I respect your opinion regardless, and no I haven't taken the time to read anywhere else where you have expressed your opinion on this subject other than on this thread. If it involves Rap, I generally don't go searching for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperStatic Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 IMO I suppose Rap & Hip-Hop or hell, even their twin sister Disco are legit "Art" forms if one wants to get technical about it. But I consider them pretty synthetic in nature. Rap or Rapping itself is a simplistic form of poetry (maybe) or rhyming words, often without a lick of lyrical sense attached to it. Then someone will overlap a beat (usually sampled, *cough* JohnBonham *cough*) and voila, a Rap "song". And please dont tell me about how Rock bands "stole" other peoples music, trying to duplicate someones sound is a far cry from outright ripping a guitar riff or drum beat and adding them to a "song". Hell if your going to rip off a guitar riff at least play around with, change it up a bit, add your own touch. Dont put it in there for some sort of banal effect. Again IMO here only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rock Historian Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 ^ I hear ya SS, I agree. (Outdoor maintenance) and planting a garden could be classed as an "art form" too if you wanna get technical ...... doesn't mean you'll get recognition, but maybe from your neighbors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Robert Anthony II Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I was born in the early 80's, so I remember this song. I used to be a big fan of hip hop, but even amongst hip hop fans, we thought Puff Daddy was lame. Jimmy definitely could have found a more talented hip hop guy to work with. It's cool how Puffy was respectful of Jimmy and gave him full credit for it, and I remember thinking the SNL version was better than the studio/video version. It was cool how Puffy praised Page on SNL. Somehow I can't find that video these days, though. I can't fault Jimmy for wanting to branch out and put out something that would help him get in touch with the younger generation. I just think the execution could have been better (On Puffy's part, not Jimmy's). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walter's walker Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well, I don't claim to understand the attraction, but I have several students and children in their 20's and 30's who listen to some of it. It doesn't do a thing for me on most of it, but I recognize the importance of the artists to certain subcategories of our disaffected youth, and realize that if you want to try to understand who those disaffected youth are, you have to understand the artists that they feel speak for them. Eminem, in particular, has had some quite insightful things to say. He's no Bob Dylan, but who else is, other than Bob? Tupac Shakur was also quite insightful-- I don't think most people realize that his family has been poltically active in the Black Power/Black Panthers/People's Revolution for over 50 years, or that this legacy did a lot to influence his work. And actually, at least one current Rap Artist, known as Immortal Technique, is quite good, although a bit underground. Phenomenal production values. He's amazing politically concious. He apparently hangs out with the Moorish Orthodox Church, as he drops a lot of their opinions, pronouncements ( I hesitate to use the phrases 'conspiracy theories' or 'propaganda' because those terms imply a level of dishonesty that are imicable to the Moorish Orthodox Church). Matis Yahu, an Orthodox Jewish Rapper is also quite good, different and refreshing. Puff Daddy blows the goat. Kayne West similarly has relations with small farm animals. And I can't believe the misogyny, crass materialism, and self-imposed stupidity found in Gangster Rap. Such a pity that Funk and R&B have been eclipsed by these sort of Amos and Andy imitators-- because that's what these "gangsters" are doing-- cashing in on the very negative racist stereotypes that allow the Man to keep oppressing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Melanie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I do admit that this was an odd pairing but at least it was an honest collaberation(?). Puffy...Ditty...Sean Combs could have just asked and paid for Jimmy's riff, or worse. He could have sampled it and felt the wrath of Led Wallet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaiser Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Run DMC and Spin Magazine ought to be tossed onto the fire while you're at it. Both did as much or more to mainstream rap music as the Beastie Boys or anyone else ever did. Correct, SPIN was the instigator's before anything was put to vinyl in a concrete sense BUT rap & rock were mingling way before that, The Clash's "Magnificent Seven" & Grandmaster Flash's "On The Wheel's Of Steel" come instantly to mind in 1981 & 1982, along with Blondie. I loved it & still do. Anything Puff Daddy/P. Diddy is not Rap/Hip-Hop to me anymore than Poison was Heavy Metal or Blink 182 being Punk. Diluted garbage from viable genres is all those last mentioned were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagesbow Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 Yeah, I didn't like the colab..I'm glad Jimmy hasn't done that kind of thing too much in his career, leave that to Brian May (who will pretty much colaborate with anybody, or so it seems) I did find another "interesting" colaboration of Jimmy's, from around the same time period... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Led Zep Girl Posted March 4, 2012 Share Posted March 4, 2012 I like it. And it's nice to see just how versatile Jimmy is with his or others music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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