U.S. Vice President 2008

[JohnFrusciante]

As much as i hate to see it, i can foresee a Republican victory come November, the early momentum in the Obama campaign has given way to what is in my opinion a move of desperation and partisan politics, Obama always spoke of. The problem with Obama is that since the Democratic nomination campaign alot of his 'Liberal wet dreams' which he promised have been dropped. Anyone whom studies his impressive speeches should be aware that there is a vast gap between what Barack Obama says and what he has done. Nevertheless i'm rooting for an Obama victory as a European observer.

[Dzldoc]

So what's everyone voting for? What are the hot button issues for you?

For me it's economics by far at number 1, then foreign policy, then probably abortion I guess.

The economy, however, is definitely determining my vote, as terrible (and greedy i guess) as that sounds

I like to press the little buttons and make them light up and make little noises and beeps, kinda like a video game neither make for shit!

[wanna be drummer]

That was a wate of a post

[Dzldoc]

That was a wate of a post

Just like our vote

[longdistancewinner]

Can someone explain to me how you can possibly justify asking a rape victim pay for their own so-called rape kit? Is someone so devoid of emotion that they would genuinely expect someone, having gone through a very traumatic experience, to actually have to foot the bill once the police got involved? Not quite content with the knowledge that the victim will probably be traumatized for life and carry shame with them, Palin wanted them to pay for it - literally? How does one justify it, let alone support it?

Would the same rule have ever applied to Palin if ever she or her loved ones faced the same threat?

Talk about kick 'em when they're down.

Not to mention she opposes abortion.

Now, I'm not about to abort my unborn child should I become pregnant. But the idea that I never could frightens me. The choice is always there. And that's a comfort, if something should happen. She even opposes it in the cases of rape and incest? Uh, Josef Fritzl, anyone? His daughter/granddaughter (*shudders at the thought*) was seriously ill. Does she not understand the medical problems that happen to a child of an incestuous couple? And she wants to play god and allow something that is clearly illegal to happen?

I'm sorry, but that just beggar's belief.

[~tangerine~]

Please be honest. What you really mean is, a human life is a human life if it's unborn or male; females past the age of menstruating are simply incubators with no rights whatsoever. Not freedom of religion, not privacy from unwarranted search and seizure (of the uterus) by the US government, certainly no right to liberty. Not even the right to life - it's way past the days when you can say with a straight face that illegal abortion and lack of access to birth control and sex education don't result in increased deaths of women. "Right to Life, you name's a lie - you don't care if women die." (not to mention wolves and their cubs...)

I must ask you about that hypothetical conversation with your wife... certainly it is her right to choose. But let's say she is raped, and she does become pregnant, and suddenly she's faced with the deep knowledge that she'd rather cut her own wrists than carry some stinking vicious sadist's baby to term... it's legal, and it's her right to choose, and she chooses to love and value HERSELF and end the pregnancy. Would you support her? If President Palin has made safe abortions illegal, would you help her procure an illegal one?

As for Palin bringing "Western" values to Washington, give me a break. I'm a life long resident of the West, born and rasied here. John Muir is Western. The Sierra Club is Western. Beat niks and hippies are Western. Sarah Palin has more in common with a Confederate flag-waving good ol' boy from Arakansas than she does with me.

You drink the Kool Aid way too easily...

This post is awesome, SunChild!!!

and i was happy to send your link to friends. My gf at work has at least 50 friends she sent it to! I hope it helps.

[Dzldoc]

Can someone explain to me how you can possibly justify asking a rape victim pay for their own so-called rape kit? Is someone so devoid of emotion that they would genuinely expect someone, having gone through a very traumatic experience, to actually have to foot the bill once the police got involved? Not quite content with the knowledge that the victim will probably be traumatized for life and carry shame with them, Palin wanted them to pay for it - literally? How does one justify it, let alone support it?

Would the same rule have ever applied to Palin if ever she or her loved ones faced the same threat?

Talk about kick 'em when they're down.

Not to mention she opposes abortion.

Now, I'm not about to abort my unborn child should I become pregnant. But the idea that I never could frightens me. The choice is always there. And that's a comfort, if something should happen. She even opposes it in the cases of rape and incest? Uh, Josef Fritzl, anyone? His daughter/granddaughter (*shudders at the thought*) was seriously ill. Does she not understand the medical problems that happen to a child of an incestuous couple? And she wants to play god and allow something that is clearly illegal to happen?

I'm sorry, but that just beggar's belief.

Yes that does sound bad, the problem today with anything that costs us more is LIARS!

I'm not saying I support the Idea it's just like say insurance rates. So many drivers without it that we have to pay higher rates. The many pay for the few only it's getting to the point where it's the few paying for the many.

Edited to say: I'm not for incest or rape babies either

[longdistancewinner]

Yes that does sound bad, the problem today with anything that costs us more is LIARS!

I'm not saying I support the Idea it's just like say insurance rates. So many drivers without it that we have to pay higher rates. The many pay for the few only it's getting to the point where it's the few paying for the many.

I see. I can understand, I suppose, from that point. But liars want attention and, for some, many rape victims are too ashamed to come forward, not even for justice. Liars would probably pay the cost, because they have what they needed, even if temporary. I know of someone who lied about being raped. She is still a teenager, and I went to school with her older brother. When she claimed she'd been raped the village we live in all but stopped. She seemed to forget the last major crime was the rape and murder of a 16 year old girl on Halloween in 1983. It was all we could talk about and we genuinely believed 'he' (the killer - he was never caught) had come back. Turns out she had lied. She was not raped and the police had done all that work for nothing.

So, I get where you're coming from.

But, if a rape victim is already reluctant to come forward, the added knowledge that they'd have to pay for everything isn't going to help. And that's a shame because if the crime isn't reported the criminal has essentially gotten away with it.

[Dzldoc]

Agreed. The world is a bad place at times.

[~tangerine~]

Yes that does sound bad, the problem today with anything that costs us more is LIARS!

I'm not saying I support the Idea it's just like say insurance rates. So many drivers without it that we have to pay higher rates. The many pay for the few only it's getting to the point where it's the few paying for the many.

Edited to say: I'm not for incest or rape babies either

Statistics say every two minutes someone in the United States is a victim of sexual assault. With numbers this high, i think it's better to give the benefit of the doubt, and help the victim. Many more are truthful than not, and as LDW mentioned, so many never even come forward. It's total lack of empathy for humans to make a victim pay for a kit to show evidence. Similar to the many Americans (and their children) who can't afford healthcare. They won't be getting any help if McCain takes office.

With all due respect Dzldoc (because i respect you a great deal ), i don't think the comparison to car insurance is in the same field. Now that is a problem that is out of control and needs to be strictly enforced (because of the increased costs to everyone). In my state (where registration on each car is required every 12 months, if you can't provide valid car insurance you won't be getting a new registration card). My point is sexual assault is a totally different type of crime than uninsured driving. The cost of a rape kit should be federally mandated in cities that can't afford it, i guess. Driving is a privledge, being assaulted is not.

EDIT: forgot the link if anyone cares (Tori Amos worked with this organization, kudos to Tori):

http://www.rainn.org/statistics?gclid=CKjj...CFQuYQAodtSoGXA

[Dzldoc]

I was only Generalizing not comparing sweety

Edited to say: same laws apply here but it doesn't stop someone from physically sitting their ass behind the wheel. They tried to sieze vehicles from people at first but some group of dipshit lawyers decided it was unconstitutional.

[~tangerine~]

I was only Generalizing not comparing sweety

I'm not trying to bust on you, lol. I know you are considerate of people and a good person. I just want everyone to see the human side to this (and Palin doesn't have one in her views). Thanks for the opportunity to clarify myself.

[~tangerine~]

I was only Generalizing not comparing sweety

Edited to say: same laws apply here but it doesn't stop someone from physically sitting their ass behind the wheel. They tried to sieze vehicles from people at first but some group of dipshit lawyers decided it was unconstitutional.

It's the same idea with guns. Even criminals can get them though illegally. I agree with you, not only because we all pay more for the uninsured, but even more because if i'm involved in an accident with someone uninsured, i will have to fight even harder to get what i'm owed.

btw...you already see how the politics effect me, so don't be offended if i strike you (lol ).

[Dzldoc]

(~tangerine~ @ Sep 16 2008, 08:56 PM) I'm not trying to bust on you, lol. I know you are considerate of people and a good person. I just want everyone to see the human side to this (and Palin doesn't have one in her views). Thanks for the opportunity to clarify myself.

She is pretty staunch on her views, I think people should be a little more flexible

It's the same idea with guns. Even criminals can get them though illegally. I agree with you, not only because we all pay more for the uninsured, but even more because if i'm involved in an accident with someone uninsured, i will have to fight even harder to get what i'm owed.

btw...you already see how the politics effect me, so don't be offended if i strike you (lol ).

As long as it doesn't hurt too bad

[wanna be drummer]

Just like our vote

Agreed

[Del Zeppnile]

Please be honest. What you really mean is, a human life is a human life if it's unborn or male; females past the age of menstruating are simply incubators with no rights whatsoever. Not freedom of religion, not privacy from unwarranted search and seizure (of the uterus) by the US government, certainly no right to liberty. Not even the right to life - it's way past the days when you can say with a straight face that illegal abortion and lack of access to birth control and sex education don't result in increased deaths of women. "Right to Life, you name's a lie - you don't care if women die." (not to mention wolves and their cubs...)

I simply don't support killing babies. I hardly think that wanting to protect the lives of babies makes me a bad person.

I must ask you about that hypothetical conversation with your wife... certainly it is her right to choose. But let's say she is raped, and she does become pregnant, and suddenly she's faced with the deep knowledge that she'd rather cut her own wrists than carry some stinking vicious sadist's baby to term... it's legal, and it's her right to choose, and she chooses to love and value HERSELF and end the pregnancy. Would you support her? If President Palin has made safe abortions illegal, would you help her procure an illegal one?

So basically you believe that if the father was a "vicious sadist" then the baby should be killed because of that?

I guess I never thought of it that way. But now that I'm thinking about it....

No, it doesn't make sense to kill the baby.

As for Palin bringing "Western" values to Washington, give me a break. I'm a life long resident of the West, born and rasied here. John Muir is Western. The Sierra Club is Western. Beat niks and hippies are Western. Sarah Palin has more in common with a Confederate flag-waving good ol' boy from Arakansas than she does with me.

You drink the Kool Aid way too easily...

Sarah Palin is from Alaska. In what wild and bizarre stretch of the imagination does she have any similarites to someone from Arkansas? And are you saying that people from Arkansas are somehow bad just because they are from Arkansas?

Where does all this hatred come from with some of you people. You remind of some of those vile hate filled leftists who were always screaming and carrying on at Richard Nixon during the 1972 campaign. They would say just about any awful thing that came to mind, however the American people were watching and listening. And as a result, Nixon won in a landslide.

Yep, just keep on shouting out your hatred and bile, and McCain wins.

It's a baby not a choice.

[allthekingshorses]

I simply don't support killing babies. I hardly think that wanting to protect the lives of babies makes me a bad person.

So basically you believe that if the father was a "vicious sadist" then the baby should be killed because of that?

I guess I never thought of it that way. But now that I'm thinking about it....

No, it doesn't make sense to kill the baby.

Sarah Palin is from Alaska. In what wild and bizarre stretch of the imagination does she have any similarites to someone from Arkansas? And are you saying that people from Arkansas are somehow bad just because they are from Arkansas?

Where does all this hatred come from with some of you people. You remind of some of those vile hate filled leftists who were always screaming and carrying on at Richard Nixon during the 1972 campaign. They would say just about any awful thing that came to mind, however the American people were watching and listening. And as a result, Nixon won in a landslide.

Yep, just keep on shouting out your hatred and bile, and McCain wins.

It's a baby not a choice.

Do you want to protect the babies who are killed as Casualties of War?

[allthekingshorses]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/08/a...n_n_124798.html

"The two videos, both obtained by The Associated Press, give weight to Afghan and U.N. findings that scores of civilians, including 60 children and 15 women, died in the Aug. 22 U.S.-led raid in the village of Azizabad. U.S. special forces and Afghan commandos carried out the operation"

Where is your passion for these babies!

War is not the answer.

[bigstickbonzo]

Talk about laying the hammer on..

I read four articles in various newspapers today and saw on the Nightly News how the McCain camp is seriously putting the spin on Palin's credentials.

You know what they say? You can only stay at home and bake cookies for as long as the neighborhood doesn't pick up the scent. Unfortunately for her and McCain, its the entire fuckin country.

[Electrophile]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/9/17/17.../636/888/601186

I know it's from the Daily Kos, but it does go into why Sarah Palin wanted women to pay for their own rape kits in Wasilla, the rape capital of the world (seriously, their rape statistics compared to the national average were almost double). The reason for this? Emergency contraception is obviously included in a rape kit to prevent pregnancy. Mrs. Palin is opposed to any and all forms of birth control. So rather than saying "You've been horribly victimized, I am so sorry" she opts to victimize these women AGAIN by forcing them to pay for something they shouldn't have to pay for to begin with. What, she can't take some of that $9 billion dollar surplus and GASP! do something good with it? What's worse, is that Alaska is the welfare capital of the United States.......yet they have a $9 billion dollar surplus because of all that oil.

[Suz]

The hatred isn't for Alaska, or Arkansas, or any other state. It's for the sheer unbridled stupidity that is destroying our country. It's for the injection of radical religious zealotry into our politics. It's for the shamelessly dumbed down, watered down bullshit that passes for political discourse. It's because Abraham Lincoln's debates were at college level in a time that hardly anyone went to college, while the 2004 debates were rated at a 5th grade level. It's because we are letting down our parents, grandparents and children by tolerating this bullshit and allowing ourselves to be spoon fed propaganda rather than be civic minded. It's because we are collectively, deliberately, slowly but surely making the greatest nation on earth a laughing stock by handing it over to goons who would rather try to scare and divide us than to respect the Constitution of the United States, the Geneva Convention, the Kyoto Treaty, Social Security.....

But by all means, save the unborn child of a rape victim and save your own marriage by denying others the right to marry. One needs priorities after all.

[Electrophile]

What aggravates the hell out of me about the rape kit issue is that the cost to taxpayers in Wasilla to pay for them is $1.50. One dollar and fifty fucking cents. You mean to tell me a state with a $9 billion dollar surplus can't pony up a buck fifty? That should get you a Whopper at Burger King. A state that gives each citizen close to a grand just for living in that backwater ice trap can't fork over less than $2 to help the victim of a heinous violent assault? That's unfathomable to me.

How can a woman be so opposed to basic women's rights? I'm not even talking about abortion. I mean, she's against sex-ed, she's opposed to contraception, she even wants rape victims to pay the $1200 for their rape kits! In a town with a rape statistic per capita that is double the national average.

[Patrycja]

What aggravates the hell out of me about the rape kit issue is that the cost to taxpayers in Wasilla to pay for them is $1.50. One dollar and fifty fucking cents. You mean to tell me a state with a $9 billion dollar surplus can't pony up a buck fifty? That should get you a Whopper at Burger King. A state that gives each citizen close to a grand just for living in that backwater ice trap can't fork over less than $2 to help the victim of a heinous violent assault? That's unfathomable to me.

How can a woman be so opposed to basic women's rights? I'm not even talking about abortion. I mean, she's against sex-ed, she's opposed to contraception, she even wants rape victims to pay the $1200 for their rape kits! In a town with a rape statistic per capita that is double the national average.

And why this hasn't been addressed with that surplus is a mystery as well. Or is it that there is some tacit agreement that women are somehow to blame for being raped? How else can the deafening silence from the lack of support for them be interpreted? It is disgusting what some people will do to belong to a certain circle. Besides looking like a woman, she really sounds like a guy - from the 1950's. There is nothing that woman stands for that comes close to representing me as a woman. Nothing at all. Scary that some women can relate to her positions. Stepford politics.

[Patrycja]

slaps forehead

I have a sixth grade student who needs things repeated fewer times to understand.

*sigh*

[allthekingshorses]

What aggravates the hell out of me about the rape kit issue is that the cost to taxpayers in Wasilla to pay for them is $1.50. One dollar and fifty fucking cents. You mean to tell me a state with a $9 billion dollar surplus can't pony up a buck fifty? That should get you a Whopper at Burger King. A state that gives each citizen close to a grand just for living in that backwater ice trap can't fork over less than $2 to help the victim of a heinous violent assault? That's unfathomable to me.

How can a woman be so opposed to basic women's rights? I'm not even talking about abortion. I mean, she's against sex-ed, she's opposed to contraception, she even wants rape victims to pay the $1200 for their rape kits! In a town with a rape statistic per capita that is double the national average.

I would think this would be a big deal to most women. It says a lot about her character. But many Republican women will turn their heads to it, unless they themselves are rape victims. I would think anyone who has been through the process would be offended to learn this. I've said it before, the more we learn about her, the less there is to like.